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Ore Thief Tactic That Needs to Go

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Roccia19	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:47:00 - [1] Recently I had an indivdual approach my jettisoned container in a shuttle. This person created their own container then transfer over 10,000m3 of ore from my container to theirs. I find it ridiiculous that a ship with 10m3 of space can move 100x its cargo. He was easily able to run away without my drones destroying him. I ran off to grab my Industrial to retrieve what is rightfully mine. Upon returning all was clear until I had re-grabed my ore at which point this individual re apeared with an assualt ship and destroyed my ship along with 14mill in Cargo Expander II's. The developers should look into restricting the movement of an item between jettisoned cans. Something like an individual can only move the equivalent volume of empty space in the cargo seems much more logical than a shuttle moving a large industrial size load.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:52:00 - [2] no thanks, I had togo fill my POS up tonight I had fuel in the corp hanger but I was in interceptor wiha bout 10m3 of spacfeleft it would have painedme if I had to move it all over via myown cargo hold, instead I could just drag from corp hanger atpos to the resources hanger in tower in one quick easy motion. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:52:00 - [3] Sounds like you did everything wrong. Well done! --- Originally by: Galack Fyar Burn in a hole
Avious Tylepthine Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:57:00 - [4] If they steal the ore from you show up in some form of a combat ship and move it back into your own container. From that point either: A) Have a friend show up and take it back for you B) Hope the pirate shows up again and just blast him/her into oblivion.
Roccia19	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:59:00 - [5] My issue is not with loosing my ship but rather that someone with such a small ship can transfer so much.
fullmetalpwn The Imperial Assassins	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:59:00 - [6] Here's what you do: Use (multiple) secure cans. Problem solved. ________________________________________________ Originally by: "Alumion" Welcome to EVE, where many wars are started over forum posts.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:00:00 - [7] Originally by: Roccia19 My issue is not with loosing my ship but rather that someone with such a small ship can transfer so much. they use the inbuilt matter transfer units (only work within 1500m) they are not transferring fromc ontainer to there ship back to contaner the matter unit just transports from container to contaner. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:42:00 - [8] Devs and everyone has said that Jet can mining is like throwing stuff away. That's what the can is for. You can think to yourself "this stuff is mine, and i'm coming back for it" but to the rest of the world, it doesn't matter. Just be happy the devs didn't nerf this exploit a long time ago. good game
Terminal Entry New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:43:00 - [9] Originally by: fullmetalpwn Here's what you do: Use (multiple) secure cans. Problem solved. I take it you've never tried to use multiple secure cans for mining? It doesn't really work unless you're in a Frigate. It's a lot easier to just warp back to the Station and unload. "Numerical superiority is of no consequence. In battle, victory will go to the best tactician." -G. A. CUSTER
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Roccia19 Recently I had an indivdual approach my jettisoned container in a shuttle. This person created their own container then transfer over 10,000m3 of ore from my container to theirs. I find it ridiiculous that a ship with 10m3 of space can move 100x its cargo. He was easily able to run away without my drones destroying him. I ran off to grab my Industrial to retrieve what is rightfully mine. Upon returning all was clear until I had re-grabed my ore at which point this individual re apeared with an assualt ship and destroyed my ship along with 14mill in Cargo Expander II's. The developers should look into restricting the movement of an item between jettisoned cans. Something like an individual can only move the equivalent volume of empty space in the cargo seems much more logical than a shuttle moving a large industrial size load. The proper response for this is: 1) Destroy the shuttle (they don't tank very well) 2) Dock till your aggro timer runs out 3) If he's left local, retrieve your ore Tired of Waiting? Use Empire Research
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.29 04:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Arushia Originally by: Roccia19 Recently I had an indivdual approach my jettisoned container in a shuttle. This person created their own container then transfer over 10,000m3 of ore from my container to theirs. I find it ridiiculous that a ship with 10m3 of space can move 100x its cargo. He was easily able to run away without my drones destroying him. I ran off to grab my Industrial to retrieve what is rightfully mine. Upon returning all was clear until I had re-grabed my ore at which point this individual re apeared with an assualt ship and destroyed my ship along with 14mill in Cargo Expander II's. The developers should look into restricting the movement of an item between jettisoned cans. Something like an individual can only move the equivalent volume of empty space in the cargo seems much more logical than a shuttle moving a large industrial size load. The proper response for this is: 1) Destroy the shuttle (they don't tank very well) 2) Dock till your aggro timer runs out 3) If he's left local, retrieve your ore The Covetor SO needs a second midslot. I'd stick a webber and scramber there in a heartbeat. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Sirius Problem Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 04:42:00 - [12] Don't know if this trick still works but you could try when you see a thief approaching your can. Select all ore in the can and drag to your cargo hold, but do not release mouse button to actually complete the drop operation. If the thief tries to grab your ore, he receives a message stating that the item is already "in use" or some such thing. Again, not sure if it works anymore. A twist on this is to select and drag all your ore, except a very small amount, like 1 unit. The thief tries to take it all, but only gets the one free unit, while giving you and your corp aggro rights. ---- Some people say I have a bad attitude. Those people are stupid.
Fswd	Posted - 2007.05.29 06:18:00 - [13] Jettison: throw away stuff that you don't want/need. Don't be surprised if others want/need that stuff. --- So I flame and troll when the occasion calls for it. So what are you gonna do about it?
Siloh	Posted - 2007.05.29 06:49:00 - [14] Using dictionary definitions of a word to justify a blatant fault in game mechanics is, tbh, a bit meh Before the flagging change, jetcan mining used to suck because anyone could waltz up to your can and empty/destroy it without penalty. They still can, only now they can also destroy your ship for free at the same time. lolz?
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:10:00 - [15] Nerf jet can mining! Originally by: Marquis Dean Yeah I know. But I was in the shower.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:13:00 - [16] Don't like it? Use a buddy/alt in a hauler, or a secure can.
Ardvaark Ratnik	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:33:00 - [17] So you Jettisoned your ore, didn't have a hauler waiting near by to collect (Alt or friend) and you are complaining? You have 3 options: 1. Use secure containers, 2. Ninja mine (load your cargo, dock, empty, return) 3. Mine with friends. You can bookmark the roid field and come right back to where you left. It isn't hard. You lost your hauler and expander II's out of your own stupidity... you knew he transferred the ore to another can, yet you tried to take it back with a hauler? You should have counted it as the price for a lesson learned and it would have been cheap. Now you have a 14+ mill lesson. So let us reiterate: 1. Use secure containers 2. Ninja mine 3. Mine with friends (join a corp, make an alt, etc.) 4. Think before posting. Have a nice day.
Darkwolfi Conisor Excavations Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:35:00 - [18] If it's "throwed away" for everyone to take, why do you get aggression? :) your ship has a midslot.. use it?
heheheh Singularity. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:38:00 - [19] "Jettison" also means "throw away" Ore floating in space is fair game.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/05/2007 11:37:26 How about it's time to bring out secure containers that can hold the amount a jetcan can(cha cha cha!) It's a bit silly that the biggest secure can holds only 3.9k and a jetcan holds 27k. Isn't it? Not that i've had any problems with ore thieves as i use the 39'ers.
Sai Renn Leader Dogs For The Blind	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Roccia19 My issue is not with loosing my ship but rather that someone with such a small ship can transfer so much. If you stop them doing it in a shuttle then they will do it in bigger ships. at first it may look like that would harder to do as they would take longer to get into warp, but they could, technicaly, jett a can, start there warp, then just before they break into it shove the cargo from your can to theres. Stopping people using smaller ships to transfer cargo would really only hurt people who fuel there pos's from the Hanger array, in there normal ships.
Faol'gus T Miners	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:50:00 - [22] Yes but jet cans were never meant to be used as mining aids. Nerf jet cans! No wait, don't! How else can I steal all that ore?
Lysit Kaune Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:03:00 - [23] Heh, last time someone tried to steal in a shuttle I had them locked, webbed and scrabbled. Calmly had my alt take his ore back, ship it to a station, then left him locked and scrambled, set to orbit and walked off for a few hours.
Zeonos Hauler	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:13:00 - [24] you threw your ore into space. :) you aperently didnt want it. this subject has be discussed alot. jet can mining has a risk. if i wear you, i would fit my mining ship with some deffense. like a warpscram + web + drones. they i would kill his shuttle, and run to hide. :) now i do use a jet can as a mid link between my miner and my hauler :). but if a ore thief shows all he can get is 1bookmark to some random location :) "often the spot the can is.." :) you could also just jam and web, and let him fly around. maybe even follow him just to annoy him.. :)
General Coochie Gallente The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:18:00 - [25] Learn2mine tbh.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:20:00 - [26] There is nothing to be changed, you didn't pay enough attention to what you were doing, your own fault for having your ore stolen and being attacked.
Myang Li	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:47:00 - [27] Could always do what I did. Guy took alot of ore from me, got my mates to cloak in BS's in the belt and I went back in with my BS now setup for tanking and 4 mining lasers to make it look like I would be a pushover. He appeared and shot me once when I took my ore back, webbed & scrammed him while my mates de-cloaked and opened fire. 1 piddly little ore theif verses 5 fully armed T2 BS's does not last long, even in an assult ship.
Icarus Starkiller Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:53:00 - [28] Edited by: Icarus Starkiller on 29/05/2007 12:55:39 I say keep the flagging issue. Yes, someone wandering by in a shuttle is BAIT!!!!, hoping you'll aggro so they can get a cheap, easy kill. Get out of your shell and FIGHT the bugger. Better yet, have one of your corpies in local, preferrably with a recon, sitting a few KM from your can. When the guy flips the ore, send your shuttles after him, then run for your hauler. When you come back (with webs, a couple target dampers, and whatever other EW you want) to get your ore wait for the 'response' ship to show up (typically cruiser or larger, or T2 frig) your friend decloaks and BBQ's the guy. Also: When retrieving 'stolen' ore... fit WARP CORE STABS rather than expanders if you want to get the goods and get out. Also; gang up with a 'friendly' in local, who does not need to be in your corp at all. Have that person jet a can for you to mine into. When the ore theif wanders by and nicks the ore, he suddenly finds himself unexpectedly flagged to some guy he doesn't even know about who might just happen to be sitting a rather short warp away. Since he won't see that he's flagged to that pilot he'll warp off, come back with his 'killer' ship... and voila, the friendly gets a free kill. LEARN how to fight, or be prey. - Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:45:00 - [29] first off DONT JET CAN MINE IN EMPIRE. second ONCE STOLEN ITS NOT YOURS Third You should returned in a COMBAT SHIP not a hauler.. So yes you did everything wrong and nothing right. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Henry Loenwind A hulk with a skilled pilot mines over 5000m¦ per tick. mining in a hulk, in highsec? suicide destroyers, problem solved .. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Faol'gus T Miners	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:53:00 - [31] Originally by: Gutsani Originally by: Henry Loenwind A hulk with a skilled pilot mines over 5000m¦ per tick. mining in a hulk, in highsec? suicide destroyers, problem solved .. Seriously the amount of hulks in a 0.9 I regularly haunt is fantastic. The more they mine the more I can steal.
Caffeine Junkie Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.05.29 15:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Roccia19 Recently I had an indivdual approach my jettisoned container in a shuttle. This person created their own container then transfer over 10,000m3 of ore from my container to theirs. I find it ridiiculous that a ship with 10m3 of space can move 100x its cargo. He was easily able to run away without my drones destroying him. I ran off to grab my Industrial to retrieve what is rightfully mine. Upon returning all was clear until I had re-grabed my ore at which point this individual re apeared with an assualt ship and destroyed my ship along with 14mill in Cargo Expander II's. The developers should look into restricting the movement of an item between jettisoned cans. Something like an individual can only move the equivalent volume of empty space in the cargo seems much more logical than a shuttle moving a large industrial size load. I always have an alt in a cloaked battleship nearby, its great fun wiping out the ore thief who thinks he has outsmarted you. ___________________ =
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:22:00 - [33] Quote: If it's "throwed away" for everyone to take, why do you get aggression? :) Because there used to be no aggression and miners whined and whined till ccp finally added it. Now the miners whine about the fact that ccp added it. Ironic isnt it?
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:51:00 - [34] Would it be completeley overkill to just nurf jetcan mining completeley by changeing barges to have a cargohold that can hold 1000% more M3 if the cargo is only ore? Jetcan mining was never intended anyway, so theres no sence in complaneing about it. Seems to me the origenal concept of: mine 1 cycle, warp, dock, unload, warp, repeat - was broken and stupidley tedious from the start. Also just think of poping a Coverter with 35km3 of free ore inside. -
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:03:00 - [35] yeah, either add more cargo space or make larger secure cans. i think a 15,000 m3 can that can hold 20,000 m3 would be reasonable. or perhaps even a 30,000 m3 can? plus it would be nice to only use one can instead of stuffing 5 or 6 GSC's into your hauler. 1) hauler goes to mining location and anchors monster can 2) miners fill up that can with ore 3) hauler unanchors and picks up the can when done if there is some reason to keep secure cans small (ie- to prevent placing certain large itms inside), perhaps make these kinds only allowed to hold ore? the solution is really quite simple. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Kiyirari Retribution Corp.	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:13:00 - [36] Originally by: Roccia19 Recently I had an indivdual approach my jettisoned container in a shuttle. This person created their own container then transfer over 10,000m3 of ore from my container to theirs. Personnal i find this quite amusing that you let a shuttle sit there long enough to move 10.000m3 of ore into there own container Some mothers do have them Revenge is my god and my guns are her angels
Fafnir Drake Gallente Boob Heads Haud Terminus	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:05:00 - [37] Ok, main problem here is not the flagging imo. You can avoid that. It's the perma anchor cans sitting all over the farging place. Seriously, 5 times as many cans as rocks. It's been said before. In some belts you can't even anchor a can within mining range of a rock. Largers size sec cans would be nice, but not a absolutly needed thing. Would be a pita, but doable. As an option in any case. Can's need to despawn after some amount of time. Ofc, problems with that along the lines of lag, but how much lag do the cans themselves cost us all? If they set a timer of say 3 weeks, it'd be nice. ------ "A wise man once told me never to argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."
Diana deVos	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Roccia19 My issue is not with loosing my ship but rather that someone with such a small ship can transfer so much. I agree with that part. They should have to transfer stuff into their hold to re-jetcan it. To me, it makes more sense to do it that way. Plus, the measure won't actually stop ore-thieves. It'll just make it riskier because they're going to have to risk more expensive ships to make the flip. Make them think twice and raise it from a Kindergarten level crime to something a bit more challenging. Maybe 3rd grade. Not that the won't whine. I've generally found pirates and ore thieves to be among the biggest forum whiners, despite their "I'm bad" attitudes and proclamations. As for the rest, was the 2 million or so in ore worth it?
Peen Long Caldari The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:37:00 - [39] I've always gotten a kick out of "carebear haters" saying "Just get your friends or your alts to protect/re-steal/fight. Yeah let's not allow anyone to be able to solo mine with only one account. Not even newbs that just barely joined the game. I mean sure you can solo pretty much every other aspect of the game from general pvp to piracy to manufacturing to marketing. But mining, that's necessary to the coninuance of EVE since everything requires minerals to build and is what most new players try to do to get money coming in, no lets make that a major pain and frustration. No matter what genius ideas you guys come up with, there is still one way that absolutely cannot be protected against without going to the absurd. An ore thief in a shuttle can steal from your can and then have his buddy or alt in a hauler immediately "steal" the ore from the ore thieves can with no possible chance of retribution by the original miner. If they are extremely lucky they can steal it back from the second can before the hauler snags it, but then of course they are flagged to the ore thieves entire corp at that point. The only way to prevent this is to have multiple ships, some fully pvp ready, all right there all the time just to protect something as basic as mining. Anyone that doesn't see how unbalanced that is is frankly a donkeyhole, and doesn't care about the game as a whole just their own interests. Telling a miner not to jetcan is like telling a pvper he's not allowed to activate all his weapons in combat. There are many solutions in previous threads that return the balance to mining and thieving (larger cans, changes to aggression), but hey screw carebears right? All they do is provide the market with stuff to buy.
Reithan Caldari Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:10:00 - [40] I, personally, think mining's a bit "borked" at this point. I mean, you have dedicated mining ships, who's sole purpose is to mine a lot of ore...and they have no real way to handle that ore once it's mined. Sure, you could bring along an Indy - which will suffice for about 1 extra run of your lasers... You could bring along a freighter I suppose...but that's just ridiculous overkill, price-wise. There needs to be some sort of in-between. Giving barges an ore-only cargo bonus, or an extra ore-only cargo hold would probably do the trick nicely, as someone suggested earier in this thread.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:19:00 - [41] Umm, am I the only one who's noticed the OP is complaining that a shuttle can perform a switch of 10,000m3 of ore instantaneously? Most forum posters have Bandwagon Jumping trained to 5 and don't actually read and take in the OP. ------------------------------------- Hold my calls and sack my cook -------------------------------------
Prekaz	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Siloh Using dictionary definitions of a word to justify a blatant fault in game mechanics is, tbh, a bit meh It's not a faulty game mechanic just because you don't like it. If anything is faulty, it's the ability to create such a massive storage container from nothing.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:22:00 - [43] Originally by: Prekaz If anything is faulty, it's the ability to create such a massive storage container from nothing. Think of it as chucking a bouncey castle into space and inflating it. They aren't at all robust, which is why the pop in an hour (... and a bit). ------------------------------------- Hold my calls and sack my cook -------------------------------------
Badhands Gallente Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:16:00 - [44] Jetcans are the most risky, yet most rewarding way to mine. Surely you all see why this kind of imbalance can not be tolerated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statement on dev misconduct: for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine
Badhands Gallente Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Peen Long I've always gotten a kick out of "carebear haters" saying "Just get your friends or your alts to protect/re-steal/fight. Yeah let's not allow anyone to be able to solo mine with only one account. Not even newbs that just barely joined the game. I think that "newbs that barely just joined the game" could mine just fine into a secure can. By the time you are mining in a hulk, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a friend help you out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statement on dev misconduct: for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:31:00 - [46] If you're mining in something big like a covetor or hulk (and in empire) use some cargo expanders in the lows. You'll get like 13,000 m3 in a hulk and like...6,000 in a covetor I think? It's been a while. If you insist on jet can mining get a friend in a hauler to loot for you as soon as you drop it. If you don't want to do that - as soon as your stuff is STOLEN and put into a seperate secure can, do not come back in a hauler with expanders. Come back in hauler with a rack of warp core stabs or come back in a COMBAT SHIP. Can thieves are using shuttles in order to get you to steal. What we used to do was move stuff with a shuttle into our own jet can (hope into a belt...bookmark miners can...come back and move ore into our own can). Then sit at a planet in a raven/typhoon/armageddon (any bs will do) and scan until the hauler shows up in the belt and then warp on to the can and kill anything that stole ore back. You robbed him after he robbed you. So he gets to shoot you. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:45:00 - [47] I think that if someone agresses you, you should be able to freely loot their cans, or even blow them up , without agressing them. For now, just have someone in a bs nearby, BOOM! Originally by: Phoenixhawk Patching.......... Oh wow look the servers didnt all shut down. Hi-Five another successful patch....Durrrwomp....Hey who turned out the lights, oh look there's light outside the wi
Peen Long Caldari The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:49:00 - [48] Edited by: Peen Long on 29/05/2007 20:49:15 Originally by: Badhands Originally by: Peen Long I've always gotten a kick out of "carebear haters" saying "Just get your friends or your alts to protect/re-steal/fight. Yeah let's not allow anyone to be able to solo mine with only one account. Not even newbs that just barely joined the game. I think that "newbs that barely just joined the game" could mine just fine into a secure can. By the time you are mining in a hulk, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a friend help you out. True except you cant anchor secure cans in .8 and above. And along comes a thief that scoops your can. The problem is every "solution" that most come up with are "perfect scenario" solutions, when unfortunately those are rare. Many say "just go get a combat ship and blow them up" as if that person will always sit there and wait for you, always being in a lesser ship then you have and he'll never have sent the ore to station already meaning you can get it all back. If you've ever tried to make anything considered a decent profit by mining you know that its generally just not worth it if you can't jetcan mine. It's like trying to make money running missions, but you can never go above lvl1/2 missions. Oh sure, just run a million of them and you'll have lots of money. Who wants that solution? I am aware of the original issue in the first post, but as usual the "ore thief solutions" are coming out of the woodworks when they really aren't solutions that address the core concept of the problem.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:51:00 - [49] Originally by: Marquis Dean Sounds like you did everything wrong. Well done! It's funny because it's true -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Siloh Using dictionary definitions of a word to justify a blatant fault in game mechanics is, tbh, a bit meh Before the flagging change, jetcan mining used to suck because anyone could waltz up to your can and empty/destroy it without penalty. They still can, only now they can also destroy your ship for free at the same time. lolz? You get a warning. If you're stupid enough to ignore it or have it turned off then it's your fault. You are never, ever, forced into losing your ship to an ore theif. It's always up to the miner to do so something that gives the theif the right to attack. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:57:00 - [51] Originally by: Peen Long True except you cant anchor secure cans in .8 and above. And along comes a thief that scoops your can. The problem is every "solution" that most come up with are "perfect scenario" solutions, when unfortunately those are rare. Many say "just go get a combat ship and blow them up" as if that person will always sit there and wait for you, always being in a lesser ship then you have and he'll never have sent the ore to station already meaning you can get it all back. If you've ever tried to make anything considered a decent profit by mining you know that its generally just not worth it if you can't jetcan mine. It's like trying to make money running missions, but you can never go above lvl1/2 missions. Oh sure, just run a million of them and you'll have lots of money. Who wants that solution? I am aware of the original issue in the first post, but as usual the "ore thief solutions" are coming out of the woodworks when they really aren't solutions that address the core concept of the problem. Not every immediate problem you might face in EvE has an obvious solution. There are many solutions to avoid/get revenge on ore thieves, and most of them involves either blowing the thief up or having friends. I'd say, if EVERY solution is too hard for you, you'll just have to accept that it's time to move to a different belt/system, start over, and write off the stolen ore as gone. In this scenario the thief won the minerals (most thieves are not really after them anyhow) but you won the right to keep your ship in one piece. Call it a draw, and continue to mine elsewhere. /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:14:00 - [52] Maybe they could change it so that when you can flag stealing ore, CONCORD warps in and scrambles you for the full 15 minutes and holds you in place until the victim decides what to do with you. For macro miners, they aren't there anyways, so you just sit around in your theiving ship un harmed. For honest miners, who aren't geared out to deal with thieves like this, it gives you time to warp back to the station, get a drink, use the loo, and come back with your nos-domi minicarrier to gankspank the would be thieves.
Peen Long Caldari The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:40:00 - [53] Originally by: Ki An Not every immediate problem you might face in EvE has an obvious solution. There are many solutions to avoid/get revenge on ore thieves, and most of them involves either blowing the thief up or having friends. I'd say, if EVERY solution is too hard for you, you'll just have to accept that it's time to move to a different belt/system, start over, and write off the stolen ore as gone. In this scenario the thief won the minerals (most thieves are not really after them anyhow) but you won the right to keep your ship in one piece. Call it a draw, and continue to mine elsewhere. /Ki Like most others you miss the point, blowing up the thief/getting revenge or having friends the vast majority of the time does not leave you with the ore you have been trying to mine (see earlier example). They aren't all bad solutions, they are basically non-solutions that in order to work have to have several variables all perfectly lined up. Move to another system is a non-solution. If ore thieves decide to crash the system you work out of mostly its no easy thing just to up and move all your corp assets, re-do all your bookmarks, run a billion missions again for whatever new corporation is in the station you end up moving to so that you can refine with less taxes, etc. Know why? Because wherever you move all your crap to can just be crashed by more ore thieves in a week, you never know. The core of this needs to be addressed, not the symptoms. There really is no risk whatsoever for ore thieves with a little bit of smarts. Its just not balanced. You're probably thinking my corp is an example of this because we happen to share a system. Naw, we really don't mine at all so it really doesn't affect us. I'm just objective enough to see a flaw in the balance of the game that needs addressing.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:19:00 - [54] Originally by: Badhands Originally by: Peen Long I've always gotten a kick out of "carebear haters" saying "Just get your friends or your alts to protect/re-steal/fight. Yeah let's not allow anyone to be able to solo mine with only one account. Not even newbs that just barely joined the game. I think that "newbs that barely just joined the game" could mine just fine into a secure can. By the time you are mining in a hulk, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a friend help you out. A damned mining cruiser find a Giant (micro) Secure Can too small, for a hulk it is simply laughable.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:27:00 - [55] Originally by: Peen Long Like most others you miss the point, blowing up the thief/getting revenge or having friends the vast majority of the time does not leave you with the ore you have been trying to mine (see earlier example). They aren't all bad solutions, they are basically non-solutions that in order to work have to have several variables all perfectly lined up. Move to another system is a non-solution. If ore thieves decide to crash the system you work out of mostly its no easy thing just to up and move all your corp assets, re-do all your bookmarks, run a billion missions again for whatever new corporation is in the station you end up moving to so that you can refine with less taxes, etc. Know why? Because wherever you move all your crap to can just be crashed by more ore thieves in a week, you never know. The core of this needs to be addressed, not the symptoms. There really is no risk whatsoever for ore thieves with a little bit of smarts. Its just not balanced. Well, my reply was more aimed at a relatively "casual" (read: new) miner. What you described here is someone who has gone through a whole lot of trouble to maximize his profit within a certain area of space. This player must realize that all his work can and will be threatened by other players in this non-consentual PvP game, and he must act to protect himself and his assets accordingly. If he is unwilling to do so he really deserves to have to start over. It's harsh, but it's EvE. Originally by: Peen Long You're probably thinking my corp is an example of this because we happen to share a system. Naw, we really don't mine at all so it really doesn't affect us. I'm just objective enough to see a flaw in the balance of the game that needs addressing. No, I am talking about a hypothetical player, not your corp which I have some respect for since our war. /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!

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