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Arachnidragon
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:17:00 -
[1]
My chosen favorite task in this game is acting as a live tutorial for fresh starting miner types. I'm not interested in pvp with spaceships and never will be. The fact is, more money = win, the end. There's nothing challenging about it at all. Which brings me to the issue at hand.
There are fleets, thousands of ships, organized at five seconds notice, to grief absolutely anyone who attempts to mine roids in Empire space without their own personal defense fleet. This makes it rather difficult to get people interesting in mining, since they have no experience with gang ops, and if they have been playing for an hour or so someone has probably already killed them just for the mail.
As a result, they do what everyone else does. They become pirates. Good for PA and BoB, bad for CCP and people who don't try to exploit every possible hole in the game structure. I gathered a dozen recruits last run through on my system, and only one of them didn't cancel their account within a week because of all the griefing.
I'm sure that CCP has at least some concept of profiteering, and is able to recognize when a rival company perhaps goes ahead and spends hundreds of thousands of dollars per month on a competitor's product with the specific intent of preventing anyone else from purchasing said product, only in the long term to stunt the growth of said producer and eventually drive them out of business. It happened to SWG, and now it's happening to EVE.
I know CCP isn't interested in enforcing morality upon players, which is why I bring this up. CCP is enforcing morality upon the players. By making absolutely no measures to allow people who wish to play a nice quiet mining game where you have a chance to learn and make some money before the vultures descend and break you, they are demanding that everyone who plays behave badly or suffer consequences.
Concord isn't enough. Jet can mining in 1.0 systems is no longer possible with the grief patrols. Since you can't anchor cans in 1.0 space that also is not an option. Mining has become off limits to anyone who isn't in a large (30 or more) Corporation. Forming a Corporation has become nearly impossible because more than half of the "new" people playing are just BoB on alts. Everyone else is chased away.
Six weeks ago, CCP launched a huge promotional event and the population of EVE rose by almost 30%. It's dropped back down to normal already because of PA and BoB infiltration.
PA seems to have unlimited resources for a startup alliance with no exploits in 0.0 and they have from the very beginning. Also, the use BoB tactics and many of their graduates go to BoB. I am left to logically conclude that PA is just BoB with the intention of destroying Empire stability. I also have located several old MoO people within BoB and discovered that BoB is just the new face of MoO.
CCP, BoB is destroying you. Your game is no longer fun and interesting for the majority of new players. No amount of promotion will matter unless you make high sec space genuinely safe from griefer patrols, griefer corporations, and griefer BoB-clone groups trying to stay in practice for nullsec. Your game is now unballanced, and only rewards negative morality behaviors. You failed in not enforcing morality.
Please rectify this situation so you can make more money, and myself as well as thousands of other players can once again enjoy playing the game. Thank you.
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Kzarr Ntakki
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:35:00 -
[2]
Well, as one of those who came into the game on the back of this promotion, let me say this: anyone who wants to play a nice quiet mining game deserves to die horribly and frequently. Yarr! I have no philosophical objection to mining other than to point out that would not career miners be better off doing something productive like knitting socks? Personally I am all in favour of miners. Miners = $$. More miners = more ransom/loot.
The real solution to hi-sec griefing is of course to remove asteroids from hi- sec space so that mining can only take place where the miners can be legally shot without all the shenanigans currently required to shoot them. Please rectify this situation so I can regularly shoot more miners.
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Arachnidragon
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kzarr Ntakki Well, as one of those who came into the game on the back of this promotion, let me say this: anyone who wants to play a nice quiet mining game deserves to die horribly and frequently. Yarr! I have no philosophical objection to mining other than to point out that would not career miners be better off doing something productive like knitting socks? Personally I am all in favour of miners. Miners = $$. More miners = more ransom/loot.
The real solution to hi-sec griefing is of course to remove asteroids from hi- sec space so that mining can only take place where the miners can be legally shot without all the shenanigans currently required to shoot them. Please rectify this situation so I can regularly shoot more miners.
Case in point.
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Daedalus DuGalle
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:39:00 -
[4]
Oh the trolliness of this post is amazing. There's just so much wrong with that post my mind boggles at the sheer ignorance of it all. I can't even counter all your arguments because I don't know where to start!
So you can't make money from mining. Well how do you figure all these industrials survive? How do you think *I* survive? I mine stuff in a system thats maybe 15-20 jumps from a trade hub. No ore thieves, no PA, no "griefers" as you call them.
Btw, please explain to me how pirates help BoB? Or any other alliance? I'd love to see your reasoning on how roaming bands of Veto or Snigg helps any Alliance.
You found old M0o is BoB? Wow! An old legendary PvP group disbanded, and a bunch of them are in the new legendary PvP group. Amazing. What, you expected people to delete their characters after thier corp disbands?
Maybe you'll find some M0o or some old TTi people in MC/CA/RA as well! Run for the hills people!
Curse Alliance used to the big evil alliance that everybody loved to hate. Now its BoB. A a couple years it'll be somebody else.
The wheel keeps turning. Get over it.
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Charisma Anatolia
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Posted - 2007.05.29 07:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Daedalus DuGalle Oh the trolliness of this post is amazing. There's just so much wrong with that post my mind boggles at the sheer ignorance of it all. I can't even counter all your arguments because I don't know where to start!
So you can't make money from mining. Well how do you figure all these industrials survive? How do you think *I* survive? I mine stuff in a system thats maybe 15-20 jumps from a trade hub. No ore thieves, no PA, no "griefers" as you call them.
Btw, please explain to me how pirates help BoB? Or any other alliance? I'd love to see your reasoning on how roaming bands of Veto or Snigg helps any Alliance.
You found old M0o is BoB? Wow! An old legendary PvP group disbanded, and a bunch of them are in the new legendary PvP group. Amazing. What, you expected people to delete their characters after thier corp disbands?
Maybe you'll find some M0o or some old TTi people in MC/CA/RA as well! Run for the hills people!
Curse Alliance used to the big evil alliance that everybody loved to hate. Now its BoB. A a couple years it'll be somebody else.
The wheel keeps turning. Get over it.
I love you! I completely agree although I donÆt pirate or pvp (since IÆm a new player and just wetting my feet right now), what I do love is danger. I believe the OP wants two servers... one for people to mine rocks and never worry about being ganked. They could spend all day mining rocks and gathering money to buy new ships, ships capable of killing. Of course, they wouldnÆt use those ships because this is a server for mining not ganking miners. For the other server, a server for a game I call ôeveö, we could mine, fight, trade, go ratting, etc and make money to do with as we please. So perhaps one would buy a battleship and use said ship to à mine.
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.29 07:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 29/05/2007 07:20:38 You probably live in a city when there are lots of police around, but you know of crime right? It can happen anywhere - same concept with combat in EVE (excluding wars). Its rare in the dense, populated areas of highsec, if someone tries it on you and you haven't done something like steal a can from them, or fly a juicy weak industrial that would be worth suiciding on, you shouldn't have anything to fear on a regular basis.
Lowsec, and especially 0.0 is different. You want to mine better ores, get more money? Be prepared to defend yourself, or more likely, evade combat and protect your ship - the further you are from civilization, the more likely it is you're going to be shanghaied on one of your trips...
But, let's face it, this is just a troll post and should be dealt with as such. BoB is by no means free of corruption (quite the opposite imo), but systematically making alts to go and grief newbies en masse? That's a new one ...
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Vasiliyan
SURF Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.29 07:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Arachnidragon
Concord isn't enough. Jet can mining in 1.0 systems is no longer possible with the grief patrols. Since you can't anchor cans in 1.0 space that also is not an option. Mining has become off limits to anyone who isn't in a large (30 or more) Corporation.
Mine somewhere quieter. There are vast areas of empire space, especially in Amarr, where you can mine undisturbed for hours.
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.29 07:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Vasiliyan
Originally by: Arachnidragon
Concord isn't enough. Jet can mining in 1.0 systems is no longer possible with the grief patrols. Since you can't anchor cans in 1.0 space that also is not an option. Mining has become off limits to anyone who isn't in a large (30 or more) Corporation.
Mine somewhere quieter. There are vast areas of empire space, especially in Amarr, where you can mine undisturbed for hours.
Unless Chribba drops the Veldnaught on top of you.
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Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
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Posted - 2007.05.29 09:31:00 -
[9]
This forum is for new players to ask questions and receive advice, not for bitter trolls to share their paranoid delusions. GD is that way ->
/shoo
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Trishan
Minmatar Green Men Incorporated The Threshold
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Posted - 2007.05.29 15:15:00 -
[10]
It would seem to me that the problem is one of balance. On one hand you want Empire to be slighly "entertaining". And on the other hand you don't want those "entertainment possibilities" be abused to death in detriment of new player enjoyment because it kills your growth potential. Right now Empire playing is far safer if played as some kind of socio/psychopath.
Perhaps there should be a grief tutorial, in which common griefing tactics were explained to new players. Ore thieving, can switching, can ransoming, gang killing, suicide ganking, etc. Of course then you might risk players outright quitting since a couple wouldn't like not to have any practical form of defense at all.
Even if you look at gang killing which is sort of avoidable, what are you supposed to do? Play the paranoid and not gang? For how long? Not very useful to create ties with other people in the game, I'd say.
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Irongut
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2007.05.29 15:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Arachnidragon
I'm sure that CCP has at least some concept of profiteering, and is able to recognize when a rival company perhaps goes ahead and spends hundreds of thousands of dollars per month on a competitor's product with the specific intent of preventing anyone else from purchasing said product, only in the long term to stunt the growth of said producer and eventually drive them out of business. It happened to SWG, and now it's happening to EVE.
So what exactly are you saying here? That you think Blizzard, Linden Labs or similar are paying to play EVE and grief all the noobs? Man your paranoid.
Originally by: Arachnidragon
Concord isn't enough. Jet can mining in 1.0 systems is no longer possible with the grief patrols.
Jet can mining is a side effect of other features. Technically it's an allowed exploit so don't go thinking that it's your right to mine that way coz it isn't. This is why CCP have never done anything to stop ore theives no matter how much those like you whine.
Originally by: Arachnidragon
Six weeks ago, CCP launched a huge promotional event and the population of EVE rose by almost 30%. It's dropped back down to normal already because of PA and BoB infiltration.
PA seems to have unlimited resources for a startup alliance with no exploits in 0.0 and they have from the very beginning. Also, the use BoB tactics and many of their graduates go to BoB. I am left to logically conclude that PA is just BoB with the intention of destroying Empire stability.
Seriously, go to a doctor and get yourself treated for paranoia. Why would BoB be in Empire griefing noobs when they've got a major war to prosecute against half of 0.0? Privateers use BoB tacitcs? I've fought against the former and with the later and there's just no comparison.
Originally by: Arachnidragon
I also have located several old MoO people within BoB and discovered that BoB is just the new face of MoO.
News is supposed to be new. Scandal is supposed to be shocking. This is neither. The fact that there are ex-MoO members in BoB has been common knowledge for several years.
Originally by: Arachnidragon
CCP, BoB is destroying you. Your game is no longer fun and interesting for the majority of new players. No amount of promotion will matter unless you make high sec space genuinely safe from griefer patrols, griefer corporations, and griefer BoB-clone groups trying to stay in practice for nullsec. Your game is now unballanced, and only rewards negative morality behaviors. You failed in not enforcing morality.
CCP have never tried to enforce morality, that's one of the features of EVE. For many of us it's why we play. Could the GHSC have pulled off their huge heist if CCP enforced morality? No. And that heist probably brought more people into the game than any promotional event.
Originally by: Arachnidragon
Please rectify this situation so you can make more money, and myself as well as thousands of other players can once again enjoy playing the game. Thank you.
Go see a shrink, take a chill pill and...
Can I have your stuff?
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
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sesanti
Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.05.29 15:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: sesanti on 29/05/2007 15:49:43
Quote: There are fleets, thousands of ships, organized at five seconds notice, to grief absolutely anyone who attempts to mine roids in Empire space without their own personal defense fleet.
Thousands? Really? I think you are exagerating the issue. First, it is not griefing if they steal from your jetcan. That is a valid tactic. High. sec. will never be 100% safe, that is the way the game has been and will continue to be. A newbie is warned about that fact on the game manual, and if they join the game and spend some days playing and asking around they will eventually get to know the basics rules of can flagging.
Quote: Concord isn't enough. Jet can mining in 1.0 systems is no longer possible with the grief patrols. Since you can't anchor cans in 1.0 space that also is not an option. Mining has become off limits to anyone who isn't in a large (30 or more) Corporation. Forming a Corporation has become nearly impossible because more than half of the "new" people playing are just BoB on alts. Everyone else is chased away.
You just need a barge (or any mining ship), and a hauler next to you. That's 2 people, not 30!!!!! Dump the ore in a can that is less than 1500 meters away from your hauler, and if someone warps in to steal from you, you have the hauler take the entire can. You will have to do more trips to a station every 12m3+ of ore but it is safe! Again, do not exagerate. This game is a GROUP game, any newbie can join a decent corp and help them in their mining ops, as long as there are 2 people mining should be safe if they put enough effort on it, in high sec.
And WTF with "everyone that joins this game goes to BOB" thinking??? Care to present some proof about it?
I know you vouch for newbies, but newbies can enjoy the game just fine, they just have to learn the ropes, just like everyone here did once. Everyone has had their stupid moments when they lost something, but they are still here aren't they?
_______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster -
<I am a guy... don't mind the portrait> |
Bell Molex
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Posted - 2007.05.29 16:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Bell Molex on 29/05/2007 16:42:09 Sad Dude - You're giving us CareBears a bad name.
#1) Get out of 1.0 - gather your noobs there fine, but go someplace quiet. As said above, Amarr is full of quiet Ore rich systems, even Kernite at 0.7 - You and a Noob in mining frigates with 1 drone each can mine there.
My main has mined alone for most of my 18 months in EVE - 3 Ore Thieves - boo hoo -
#2) Being paranoid consider your posting here makes your "Arachnidragon" char a target - there are NPC agents that do location services so you'll never be safe mining as him anymore. And, as I suspect your attitude will be slow to change I suggest you terminate that char and go with a more fitting char name - nothing with Dragon in it - you're a cud chewing roid eater (like me) - and a whiner (not like me) - a good new char name might be PiperCow.
edit - PS - #3) Be Grateful ! - in reality EVE was-is designed as a PvP game with some PvE as filler - by design mining is either punishment for those who lose their ships in combat or a chore like ice mining that puts part of a corp at risk for others to defend, others to attack. By design, Mining alone is still PvP, its just that you-we are in a constant state of retreat. So as said in #1 above - do that - retreat to someplace quiet.
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Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.29 16:36:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ki An on 29/05/2007 16:37:28 What's with all the carebear essay-whines lately? You guys run out of specific things to whine about so now you're whining about PvP as a whole?
(In regards to this thread and this thread.)
/Ki
/Edited: Wrong link :-(
Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Take Bishamon
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Posted - 2007.05.29 16:40:00 -
[15]
WTH is this guy on, lmao. Don't have any idea what he's talking about. |
sesanti
Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.05.29 16:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ki An Edited by: Ki An on 29/05/2007 16:37:28 What's with all the carebear essay-whines lately? You guys run out of specific things to whine about so now you're whining about PvP as a whole?
(In regards to this thread and this thread.)
/Ki
/Edited: Wrong link :-(
I guess people who come from other MMORPG take this game as a "griefer paradise". Generally scamming and such in other games is frowned upon so here they hit the harsh reality that EVE is not a game like the rest... some can't take it and snap out.
_______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster -
<I am a guy... don't mind the portrait> |
Bell Molex
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Posted - 2007.05.29 16:45:00 -
[17]
Mining alone is still PvP, its just that you-we are in a constant state of retreat. So as said in above - do that - retreat to someplace quiet.
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WhitePhantom
Gallente Edenists
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Posted - 2007.05.29 17:06:00 -
[18]
Quote: CCP, BoB is destroying you. Your game is no longer fun and interesting for the majority of new players. No amount of promotion will matter unless you make high sec space genuinely safe from griefer patrols, griefer corporations, and griefer BoB-clone groups trying to stay in practice for nullsec. Your game is now unballanced, and only rewards negative morality behaviors. You failed in not enforcing morality.
I have played the game for almost 2 months, I have had fun every minute, and have no issues avoiding PA or griefer patrols in the process of having fun.
Your points are sort of nulled anyways, considering the huge nerf bat PA experienced recently.
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Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 17:16:00 -
[19]
lOOK MA I'M IN A BOB/PA THREAD!!!
You know I have fought these guys as m0o and BoB...at no time have I or anyone I know yelled out HACK or EXPLOIT. They just know the game better then most others. As for ore thiefs in 1.0 USE ONE MEMBER OF THE TEAM AS A HAULER. Dont jet can...dont try to have a massive defence fleet just use a hauler....simple enough?
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Asmosis
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Posted - 2007.05.29 17:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Asmosis on 29/05/2007 17:18:26
Originally by: sesanti
Originally by: Ki An Edited by: Ki An on 29/05/2007 16:37:28 What's with all the carebear essay-whines lately? You guys run out of specific things to whine about so now you're whining about PvP as a whole?
(In regards to this thread and this thread.)
/Ki
/Edited: Wrong link :-(
I guess people who come from other MMORPG take this game as a "griefer paradise". Generally scamming and such in other games is frowned upon so here they hit the harsh reality that EVE is not a game like the rest... some can't take it and snap out.
You'll see the same sort of reaction anytime a player goes from a concentual PvP game to an open PvP game. Remember the South park episode with WoW? unconcentual PvP in WoW? OMGAD!!
Eve is a bit more unconcentual than most tho heh.
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FarScape III
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Posted - 2007.05.29 18:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Roshan longshot lOOK MA I'M IN A BOB/PA THREAD!!!
You know I have fought these guys as m0o and BoB...at no time have I or anyone I know yelled out HACK or EXPLOIT. They just know the game better then most others. As for ore thiefs in 1.0 USE ONE MEMBER OF THE TEAM AS A HAULER. Dont jet can...dont try to have a massive defence fleet just use a hauler....simple enough?
And it does not happen much at all, I have never had it happen to me ever and if it did it would be the only one for a long time.
I jet can and fill up 2 & 1/8 cans, take me two hours, and nothing no stealing at all. That's about 60,000 m?
Don't worry it is only about 6 mil at most. But I need the ore to build things.
If it did happen I would not worry about it and just move until it calmed down for and hour.
most likely Star Trak comes on and they log off.
A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :) |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.05.29 18:10:00 -
[22]
Nice post for its entertainment value.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Gunstar Zero
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.29 18:21:00 -
[23]
is this a pastiche on the bob is killing the game meme?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.29 18:27:00 -
[24]
this man is delusional it takes only two people to mine and you got to a 0.6 or 0.5 system one mining in a destroyer and one using the best mining ship that they can use - the destroyer killing rats and them using secure cans only hauling once all of them are filled
and dont be telling me anything below 0.7 is overcrowded ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Radgun
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.05.29 19:18:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Radgun on 29/05/2007 19:17:48 this is called "whining" as far as I know
I don't remember the dictionary definition, but mine is (within context):
the inability to adhere to game mechanics, resulting in protest which calls for the changing of said mechanics
get 4 giant secure containers, anchor them at equal intervals in a belt, fill them all up, then haul the ore to station, repeat as needed
and get out of 1.0, you're embarassing the brave souls who mine in low sec, now THAT is dangerous
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Kzarr Ntakki
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Posted - 2007.05.30 08:25:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kzarr Ntakki on 30/05/2007 08:24:49
Quote: Being paranoid consider your posting here makes your "Arachnidragon" char a target - there are NPC agents that do location services so you'll never be safe mining as him anymore. And, as I suspect your attitude will be slow to change I suggest you terminate that char and go with a more fitting char name - nothing with Dragon in it - you're a cud chewing roid eater (like me) - and a whiner (not like me) - a good new char name might be PiperCow.
Oh, this has been very helpful to me as a noob since I now know how to find him to hunt him. I hadn't realised the location features found PCs as well as NPCs $$. Maybe we should consider moving it back to the noob thread so all the other noobs know where to hunt him too :)
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.30 09:07:00 -
[27]
Besides all of the politically-charged comments. I think that there is a little bit of truth to this.
90% of the time when I create an alt the first time I undock there usually are 1 or more station greifers. They will jet a can, or self destruct a noobship, then wait for an unsuspecting noob to open the can and take the bait. Hell I bet if anyone created an alt right now, the station that they undock from will have at least 1 person doing this.
Make Mining Better |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.05.30 09:51:00 -
[28]
totally agree..
and its just stupid that concord don't just permanently jams any ship in high sec that is not in war, and that you can declare more then 1 alliance/corp war at the same time (you should be able to be declared war by more then one, but you should not yourself be allowed to declare war to more then 1)
but well ccp is more or less bob, and they don't care for your word unless your a BoB.
well all said and seen
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CrestoftheStars
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.05.30 09:54:00 -
[29]
you most be one norrow minded foul....
what would happend if there was NO miners?! well i can tell you that you could fly around having fun in your suttle or the noob ship...
idiotcy like this is hard to find hehe.. you better not wasted it all too fast then;)
Originally by: Kzarr Ntakki Well, as one of those who came into the game on the back of this promotion, let me say this: anyone who wants to play a nice quiet mining game deserves to die horribly and frequently. Yarr! I have no philosophical objection to mining other than to point out that would not career miners be better off doing something productive like knitting socks? Personally I am all in favour of miners. Miners = $$. More miners = more ransom/loot.
The real solution to hi-sec griefing is of course to remove asteroids from hi- sec space so that mining can only take place where the miners can be legally shot without all the shenanigans currently required to shoot them. Please rectify this situation so I can regularly shoot more miners.
___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
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Kzarr Ntakki
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Posted - 2007.05.30 10:16:00 -
[30]
Actually, I get plenty of trit etc from reprocessed gear from kills in PvE missions and ratting (and also what little PvP I can currently effect), so your argument stumbles at the first fence. My agents also seem desparate to offer me ships. So frankly if there were no miners I would just shrug. But there are. And I am all in favour of them. They are such soft targets. Send more miners!
PS Keep up the smacktalk. It will make you lots of friends, particularly of the variety that are likely to shoot you given half a chance and who will now definitely podkill you.
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