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Is this third-party app legal? If not grr, if so, very cool

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Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.30 10:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Vactet Someone made the point, but id like to say it myself... Since when did an ISD mod have the..ability to say whats legit and not? Even I have the ability to say whats legit and whats not. Its common sense, its solely a matter of reading the EULA and activating your brain. Originally by: Vactet So is the whole fact that once its on my machine, its my information despite what any TOS says about it because they cant access it without my permission or theres privacy issues to be had. Now then..Viewing said data coming TO you..and doing something that doesnt affect the data stream...no reason why it should be illegal. Now does that mean its ethical? Heck no. But theres alot of differences from legal and ethical. Spying on the datastream = against the EULA, been stated before. This program doesn't do that though. Using the logserver as an API to spy on the client almost certainly is against the EULA. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:09:00 - [32] Dude... ImageShack? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Beer is my religion. Guinness is my God.
Edgars Sults LFC	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:24:00 - [33] I once tried to make a program that makes a sound or some such when I'm warpscrambled. The idea was to constantly search logfiles for the message. But then I found out that logfiles aren't written in real-time.
Asimov Machinow	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:30:00 - [34] I hope that as the result of this CCP sees that there's use for this type of sound indicator in addition to the visual indicator and include it in future built in. That or remove the Local and such data from the logserver.
Lysit Kaune Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:36:00 - [35] Originally by: mechtech It's not borderline at all, it's definitely a violation of the EULA. #2 You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. To be fair that could also indicate TS or Vent, certainly changed the way I played the game, hell, even solitare for those long empire auto pilots...
Grash Freedom Gallente MAZA Solutions	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:38:00 - [36] Edited by: Grash Freedom on 30/05/2007 11:40:49 Originally by: Deckard Bishop Originally by: Biarch No idea if it's: A) Real or Fake B) Working or Not C) Used or Not D) Legal or Not However if it's legal, and being used, kick their ass. If it's legal, then it's a nice, clever tool and well done to whoever made it. nope its not allowed.... but thats obvious isn't it? i do not see the reason why this cannot be legal if it is real, the client is not modified by any means, it is just data export of some sort using CCP tools if that is not legal, then you should make an easy claim that Character manager/Emon(or however is called) even the new sov map are not legal as well Is OCR against EULA as well? with a third party program you use ingame data out of game Teamspeak? its a third party program giving an advantage over other players that do not have TS/vent, according to EULA boom, third party gives advantage= illegal Not to mention MSN, it seems that peeps have special friends that gives them first class petition que on the very top of the list, with devs/gms taking actions within minutes while my petitions have to wait 2-3 or even 4 weeks before i get an answer Make The above illegal and i am in for whatever you say
Rabbitual Ferrier	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:51:00 - [37] Originally by: Lysit Kaune Originally by: mechtech It's not borderline at all, it's definitely a violation of the EULA. #2 You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. To be fair that could also indicate TS or Vent, certainly changed the way I played the game, hell, even solitare for those long empire auto pilots... Vent certainly doesn't interact with Eve in anyway, but runs as a seperate application. You can use it with or without Eve (theres no direct relation between the two). Now technically it may modify how the game is being played by that player, but not how the game is being play per se as the game and players (as general concepts) interaction with that game. However with the Introduction of EveSpeak this may well be a case of changing the game (ie by using Vent you are preventing the prolifieration of an approved licenced tool by CCP, and that could constitute a potential Violation). Its also worth noting that an EULA Violation only exists when invoked either by Client or Corporation (if both partys accept vent, then vent is not a violation - its a civil law thing - Civil law is not proactive in pursuit, but reactive in case of claims).
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.30 12:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Edgars Sults I once tried to make a program that makes a sound or some such when I'm warpscrambled. The idea was to constantly search logfiles for the message. But then I found out that logfiles aren't written in real-time. There already is a sound when you get warp scrambled. An easier route would be to create a new sound file for it. A slightly more obnoxious sound call for it would seem to be in order. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Microsoft Sam Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.30 12:53:00 - [39] If this program were to be real then it would prove that the goons are ill fitted to play the game and that they cant watch local, Which is easy. If not real, then nice fake?
Arrs Grazznic FireStar Inc FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 13:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Grash Freedom Edited by: Grash Freedom on 30/05/2007 11:40:49 Originally by: Deckard Bishop Originally by: Biarch No idea if it's: A) Real or Fake B) Working or Not C) Used or Not D) Legal or Not However if it's legal, and being used, kick their ass. If it's legal, then it's a nice, clever tool and well done to whoever made it. nope its not allowed.... but thats obvious isn't it? i do not see the reason why this cannot be legal if it is real, the client is not modified by any means, it is just data export of some sort using CCP tools If the program is real, you have misunderstood how it works. It does not work with exported data, rather it hooks into the Log Server part of the client application and captures data passed there. Originally by: Grash Freedom if that is not legal, then you should make an easy claim that Character manager/Emon(or however is called) even the new sov map are not legal as well CCP have allowed users to use the data exports for non-commercail ventures without the need for explicit authorisation. They have even allowed it's commercial use (see the eve maps books). Originally by: Grash Freedom Is OCR against EULA as well? with a third party program you use ingame data out of game Teamspeak? its a third party program giving an advantage over other players that do not have TS/vent, according to EULA boom, third party gives advantage= illegal Not to mention MSN, it seems that peeps have special friends that gives them first class petition que on the very top of the list, with devs/gms taking actions within minutes while my petitions have to wait 2-3 or even 4 weeks before i get an answer Make The above illegal and i am in for whatever you say yeah, whatever Cheers, Arrs
Xiaodown Lyran Procurement	Posted - 2007.05.30 13:26:00 - [41] Edited by: Xiaodown on 30/05/2007 13:27:55 Originally by: mechtech I'm sick of Goons, especially right after they helped perpetuate this "player allegation" fiasco. IMO, this isn't the first client side hack they've released to their alliance. Before this they had a standing tracker for local before CCP implemented it into the client. This would be really ridiculous to go unpunished, and we need to see some bans or something for this cheating, because that's what it is, hacks. Well, usually I refrain from commenting in threads like this. The politics aren't my business, and Evemon was written by a swarm member origionally, and we all use it, so whatever. But that's the 2nd time I've had that allegation confirmed. A former goonswarm member in a corp I used to be in said that before local implemented the [-] and [+] to cut down on database calls from everyone right click -> show info-ing, that goonswarm implemented a client-hack that would do it for you and replace the player portrait in local with a symbol indicating friendlies and non-friendlies. All GS members were instructed to use this program. That's definately not ok by the EULA. Obviously this program, if it exists (and I don't think it would be that hard to create, and that snapshot if real seems to indicate that they don't want non-members knowing about it) is against the terms of the EULA. People who live in glass houses should refrain from throwing stones (or dramabombs). Quote: And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. ~X -- Lyran procurement is offering trit and mixed-min compression services to 0.0 alliances. Free transport to 0.5+ systems, 1 jump 0.4 sys for 10M. Contact me for details. Minimums apply.
Ixianus	Posted - 2007.05.30 13:26:00 - [42] I dont understand why this would be illegal, if I were in Eve, as a person, Id modify my ship to beep if someone who wanted to **** my world up popped into local, rather a common sense thing. Should be an option if it is illegal, something to add in the next patch perhaps. And yeah, its easy to tell if someone bad is in local with you, however its annoying. A beep would be way faster and userfriendly, though I suppose after the beep youde be looking at the local channel anyway to see who the unfriendlys are, regardless, would be a good feature.
WredStorm Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Ixianus I dont understand why this would be illegal, if I were in Eve, as a person, Id modify my ship to beep if someone who wanted to **** my world up popped into local, rather a common sense thing. Should be an option if it is illegal, something to add in the next patch perhaps. And yeah, its easy to tell if someone bad is in local with you, however its annoying. A beep would be way faster and userfriendly, though I suppose after the beep youde be looking at the local channel anyway to see who the unfriendlys are, regardless, would be a good feature. It's not a matter of whether it makes sense or not (I think it makes great sense, too), but whether or not CCP builds it into the client or not. Something could make the most sense in the world but if CCP doesn't put it into the client as a feature then using some 3rd party program to fulfill that function is not allowed per the EULA. Think about macro miners... if I were a real person in the EVE universe and had to mine ore, I'd sure as heck automate the process so that I could take a catnap while my ship automatically blew apart those roids, sucked them into my hold, docked at the local station to unload the ore, then went back to repeat the entire process. In fact, I'd hire fleets of new pod-pilots to go do the same thing for me. But that isn't what CCP wants folks doing (whether it makes sense in real life that you would or not) and thus enabling that exact scenario using any sort of macro program is against the EULA. Macro program or buzzing bee, both interact with the client in unintended ways that are barred by the EULA and thus are "wrong" to do. WredStorm ----- Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Steve Holt coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:12:00 - [44] Edited by: Steve Holt on 30/05/2007 14:11:26 this is just another pathetic attempt at goons causing trouble. ISD spent all day clearing your spam and he passes judgement on a topic are you are now trying to stir stuff from it? OMGWTFPWN ISD THEY R PRETENDING TUZ BE GM'S OPEN ZE LETTURZ
RogueWing Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:13:00 - [45] Originally by: Jargoon That's nothing, you should see our wallhax and aimbot Those seem to be broke...you may want to get them fixed...
Mianda Atira Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:21:00 - [46] Oh, I am positive the program you see there worked. But exactly for that (and more) reason(s) CCP started encrypting the connection data a few patches ago to put a stop to such things being misused by people. Not that I would know anything about such things ....
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:29:00 - [47] Aw, I was getting all interested cos I thought it was called Beer Tracker! ------------------------------------- Hold my calls and sack my cook -------------------------------------
Jesters Knight Eclipse Enterprises Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:35:00 - [48] Originally by: Bistot Kid Aw, I was getting all interested cos I thought it was called Beer Tracker! HORRAY BEER! and i dont see how they can think thats illegal. the EULA states you cannot modify the content, as far as i can tell this system (when / if working) simply read the content and gave a warning. other than reading incoming data all it did was beep. i have lots of stupid beeping sounds on my computer that i would love to get rid of, but jsut because another program beeps because your program did something dosent mean that it changed what your program was doing. Highsec POS labs with no wait Salvage Drone Skill
Miriyana Gallente Galactic Savings and Investments	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:47:00 - [49] Well... interesting to say the least. gg goons. - - - - - - Change just leads to more problems

GM Xhagen	Posted - 2007.05.30 16:12:00 - [50] This would not be considered illegal, as this is only reading what the client/logserver is already spewing out. On the other hand, this program is not doing anything that the client isn't already doing via the local chat and standings coloring of the avatars, so why taking the chance of installing something that might risk the security of your computer? ____________________________ EVE Online EVE Customer Support

Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.30 16:37:00 - [51] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 30/05/2007 16:35:49 psssst, its not illegal because it doesn't exist. It, like most everything on a goonies, website is something of a joke. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Mysdora Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2007.05.30 17:08:00 - [52] Originally by: Mianda Atira Oh, I am positive the program you see there worked. But exactly for that (and more) reason(s) CCP started encrypting the connection data a few patches ago to put a stop to such things being misused by people. Not that I would know anything about such things .... Data encryption between client and server does nothing to stop a program like this, because it hooks directly into a client function where the data gets passed in unencrypted form.
Ozzie Asrail Exploited	Posted - 2007.05.30 17:23:00 - [53] Originally by: GM Xhagen This would not be considered illegal, as this is only reading what the client/logserver is already spewing out. On the other hand, this program is not doing anything that the client isn't already doing via the local chat and standings coloring of the avatars, so why taking the chance of installing something that might risk the security of your computer? I am little suprised at that answer, the local chat and standings can't notify you if you've got your client minimized but this can. Could it also send a TS message to a channel or a msn message to people, spam a intel channel ingame? Here comes a few trial account spam from me and i'm gonna setup multiple minimised alarm clients all around my area. never be ambushed again It's a fine line to be walking imho even if as I've been told this program is actually a fake (for now...) -----
Vactet Immortalis Silens Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.05.30 20:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Dark Shikari Even I have the ability to say whats legit and whats not. Its common sense, its solely a matter of reading the EULA and activating your brain. Spying on the datastream = against the EULA, been stated before. This program doesn't do that though. Using the logserver as an API to spy on the client almost certainly is against the EULA. Well obviously you failed to activate your brain and you have no common sense there Dark. Please stop trying to sound so smart..you failed. Originally by: GM Xhagen This would not be considered illegal, as this is only reading what the client/logserver is already spewing out. On the other hand, this program is not doing anything that the client isn't already doing via the local chat and standings coloring of the avatars, so why taking the chance of installing something that might risk the security of your computer? And see..its answers like these, from people who actually know what they are talking about, that cause me not to be all that happy when ISD goes and says whats legit. Not their job. Now then...good so its not illegal. Hmm. Now the big question...hey goons...Is it real? It was just said it wasnt illegal so....how do the rest of us get it? Heh. Delivering the kick to the jaw of society to stop it from drooling on itself like the ignorant slop it is since 1984. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
Nerf Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:05:00 - [55] lol wut?
ArchenTheGreat Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:38:00 - [56] Originally by: GM Xhagen This would not be considered illegal, as this is only reading what the client/logserver is already spewing out. On the other hand, this program is not doing anything that the client isn't already doing via the local chat and standings coloring of the avatars, so why taking the chance of installing something that might risk the security of your computer? Thank you for clarification. Maybe it will be a good idea to encrypt all content generated by LogServer with CCP's public key. It's stuff for CCP anyway, not that any player should analyze it. It would make much harder to write things like this.
Neoromi	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:53:00 - [57] I think its time for the goonies to prove to us that its fake, i mean we have picture proof that it exists now its time for them to prove to us that it doesnt. Right? Until that day the goonies are cheating scumbags.
DiuxDium Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.01 16:06:00 - [58] Wouldn't be the first time goons used client side hacks. ------------- Hello America
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.06.01 16:10:00 - [59] Originally by: DiuxDium Wouldn't be the first time goons used client side hacks. its not a hack if its just reading the log files. however i doubt if the content of local is logged Quote: ItÆs not every day an MMO declares war on a huge segment of their own community. Then again, Eve is pretty damn hardcore
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.01 16:12:00 - [60] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: DiuxDium Wouldn't be the first time goons used client side hacks. its not a hack if its just reading the log files. however i doubt if the content of local is logged That's the point--its not logged, you have to use the logserver which isn't intended for that purpose. The previous goon "hacks" include a hack to show enemies/allies in local before the feature existed and a hack to show the names of ships on their icons. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!

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