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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 00:34:00 -
[61]
Its all very well you chaps queuing up to offer pat praises and propaganda in favour of the new order. And hell, lets face it, you have the power to do what you want regardless of justification.
But do realise that just avoiding the points I have placed on public record does make you look a tad shifty (and/or) misinformed.
JF Public Forum |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.01.12 00:49:00 -
[62]
 Quote:
Basicly Venal said who's here fighting or supplying our cause?... who is not?... Just like layoffs you eigther worked hard enough to be in, or you go find yourself a new gig.
The interesting thing is that when JF was informed about this we were told to remove 5 pilots from the various gangs that were forming. Two others had logged off already due to all comms having been dropped an hour or so earlier. A number that isn't that bad IMHO considering simultaneous online for us generally varies between 10 and 15 in the evenings and we aren't even a primarily combat corp. Equally interesting is that none of the Pure Blind based corporations seem to have been consulted about this before being placed in the new alliance, and several will be 'leaving' TNA (although how you can leave an alliance without being asked if you want to be a member or not in the first place is beyond me).
What appears to have happened is that the corporations based in the north of Venal have decided to have a go on their own. Good luck to them, at least they aren't pirates - for now anyway. Critically bad communications seems to have led them to believe that none of the corporations in the south were even there, never mind consulting them.
Jericho has had issues with the alliance for a while now - many of them down to the policy of some corporations placing spies in others. We were almost certain to leave in the immediate future in any case - I even told a potential recruit that we were unlikely to be in the NVA in a week's time. The NVA was riddled with mistrust, false accusations, FE spies and NVA spies. Hardly an alliance most corporations would want to stay members of.
I am not saying these atitudes extend to all members of TNA, but even amongst the people it doesn't it seems to be acceptable behaviour for the rest. I think you sum this up neatly with "Besides with the lack of consiquences of this game in time everyone alliance will be betrayed and mutanies will occur it's how the nature of this game is." - does that sound like the words from someone you want to be in an alliance with???
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.12 00:50:00 -
[63]
"Venal is Cursed Ö"
@ been telling y'all for sometime now, don't go there, never base there and, never, ever, put the V-word into an alliance name...
it simply invites disastor.
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Gafton
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Posted - 2004.01.12 00:59:00 -
[64]
Sadly I have to post in this **** pile of posts. Jade the long and short of it is that not many people like you. You thrive on tourmoil and conflict. You always have to prove your point is right and that you're perfect. That's your major character flaw. I have no problem with jericho, its you that i dont like. The sooner you can accept that fact the better. If you're gonna target halseth as your new ragnar in your personal vendetta you might as well add me to the list. I'm tired of your ****. The only weapon you have is spin on events. Does it work? Yes. However here's the problem, if we had held a vote to kick you out of the alliance, it would have passed. You'd still yell backstabber! and go on a rant again and we'd be in the same spot. Move on, people already have. Your time is done
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:08:00 -
[65]
Problem is Gafton thats kind after the event justification isn't it?
My issue isn't that a kick out vote was done. Whatever, thats down to the personalities, and lets face it, I don't exactly rate you terribly highly after you stated support of same-alliance spying and intrigue and sabotage. I pretty much told you that I believed your way was destructive and trust-eroded.
But whatever,
My issues are laid out in the posts at the beginning of this thread.
If you choose not to answer my charges and account of events then I have to assume you either can't justify the things that happened, or you are simply joining the "lets hurl some abuse and hope nobody notices that Jade is completely accurate in her assessment of what happened."
Lets face it, so far nobody has disputed a word I have said with the slightest credibility.
JF Public Forum |
Serak Tur
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:10:00 -
[66]
If you had had a vote Gafton? I thought Halseth said it was a unanimous decision???
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:17:00 -
[67]
Don't take everything Halseth says for granted. His definition of "unanimous is as twisted as his ethics".
He means he snarled "lets boot jericho because jade has a smart mouth" in teamspeak, and Artegg and CDI and KIA said fine.
There was no formal vote, and no attempt to follow the charter rules that he helped draft.
Half the corps he listed as being involved with the "unanimous" vote where nowhere close to being involved in the process.
I would have a hell of a lot more respect for these TINA chaps if they actually said,
"hell yes Jade, we stuck the knife in real good, muhahhahahaha"
It's possible to respect a decent bit of real villainy.
All this cringing justification and doubtletalk ass-kissing is kinda sad to watch.
(yet compelling)
JF Public Forum |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:19:00 -
[68]
Quote:
However here's the problem, if we had held a vote to kick you out of the alliance, it would have passed.
If it was a full vote including all those in the alliance, it simply would not have passed.
There would have been about 5 YAY's and 7 NAY's and the rest would have said "let's not rock the boat."
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:29:00 -
[69]
OMG I read the whole thread.. I want to kill myself now 
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Gafton
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:44:00 -
[70]
the reason nobody has replied to your posts jade is because it's not worth our time to read. It also will do nothing. You will just say we're lying bla bla bla, and the situation will stay as it is now. As for supporting spies, I have no problem with it. But that's because I have nothing to hide.
To serek, an official vote on our forums would have been the correct way to go. However that would have taken weeks to finally get everyone there to actually vote. What we did was vote jade style. Talk to whoever was online for their thoughts, comments, and then vote on the issue. Isnt that the same process you've used in the past jade?
db is corrent in assuming the vote wouldnt pass, but not for people in support of jade. The reason it wouldnt pass is because nobody reads our forums to actually vote on it. Only a handful of people actually post there anymore which is kind of sad.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:47:00 -
[71]
Oh just stop it Gafton, just admit you pulled of a effective backstab coup and leave it at that. All these silly little excuses and wriggling-fits make you chaps look petty.
JF Public Forum |
Rebellion
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:54:00 -
[72]
What a mess. :o
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Gafton
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:55:00 -
[73]
petty is writing multiple post responces on the boards for moral support in your troubling hour or rejection.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:09:00 -
[74]
No gafton, petty is posting pointless excuses in an attempt to justify your position at the end of a thread without bothering to address the material at the beginning.
Oh yes, you couldn't be bothered to consider the debate.
But you could be bothered to hurl a little muck and tell a few lies at the end.
How very noble of you.
JF Public Forum |
Tassadar Beta
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:15:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Tassadar Beta on 12/01/2004 02:16:56
Im not entirely sure whats going on here, to me it just looks like people are trying to get one over each other a little too much instead of objectifying anything.
I know ppl such as Halseth from the beta and I could chose to throw my own personal byast but I wont, I just wish everyone else could do the same.
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Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:20:00 -
[76]
My my my. I'm trying to keep my neutral hat on here because I obviously cant know the situation, but I cant help but notice that no one has confronted Jades view of history.
All the Halseth supporters have done (including Halseth himself) is dismiss what she said without reason and then verbally attack Jade.
Perhaps you guys just dont understand how arguments are made and debates work. To make it short, people who just verbally attack people (or technically in this case electronically) end up having less and less credibility to your regular Joe and Jane. Why is that? Its because people see it as "mud slinging" they see that these people dont have a "point" to argue around and debate over, they see that since they dont have a pillar to stand on, all they can do is attack their opponents.
Obviously debating uses attacks, but it is subtle attacks that turn the debate in your favor. Remember, dont mudsling just for the sake of throwing mud, do it around an argument. (It is best not to throw around heavy attacks as it makes you look weak, this is true even if you have a strong arugment. IE. Dont call Jade the leader of the SS while rebuffing what she says, what you may do is lose a debate you could have won by appearing unintelligent).
So to sum this all up, if you dont understand what I'm saying, you are an idiot, also, will someone from Halseths camp (preferably Halseth) debate jade over this and address what she has said? Until you address what she has said, it makes you appear that all you have done is performed a 'backstabbing coup' (her words, not mine).
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Dracule
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:24:00 -
[77]
Jade you are not wanted in the new alliance so please stop whining, you are making your corp members look bad.
Doesnt matter why it happaned and no need to talk about it all the time, you should just get on and get over it.
As it is now you only look like a whining baby that lost its candy.
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Christopher Xen
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:31:00 -
[78]
Quote:
OMG I read the whole thread.. I want to kill myself now
Im not even done and im preparing for seppuku.
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Christopher Xen
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:34:00 -
[79]
Quote:
the reason nobody has replied to your posts jade is because it's not worth our time to read. It also will do nothing. You will just say we're lying bla bla bla, and the situation will stay as it is now. As for supporting spies, I have no problem with it. But that's because I have nothing to hide.
To serek, an official vote on our forums would have been the correct way to go. However that would have taken weeks to finally get everyone there to actually vote. What we did was vote jade style. Talk to whoever was online for their thoughts, comments, and then vote on the issue. Isnt that the same process you've used in the past jade?
db is corrent in assuming the vote wouldnt pass, but not for people in support of jade. The reason it wouldnt pass is because nobody reads our forums to actually vote on it. Only a handful of people actually post there anymore which is kind of sad.
This is why we are an empire and NOT a democracy/beuracracy. Its so sloppy, sure we ask what people would like, and 99.9% we go with it but, damn you guys go full bore.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:43:00 -
[80]
And who exactly are you mr Dracule ôweird looking chappy who I have never seen beforeö?
DonÆt you realise that by posting ôblah blah blah, personal attack, blahö you are proving the point made by Kalki Nibiru in the post above?
This thread is absolutely nothing but our side of the argument making valid points and describing things that happened in fact, while your side of the argument makes no points or valid statements beyond pointless personal attacks.
And you know the funny thing?
I read nonsense like your post and I think ôhey thatÆs one more nail in the coffin of the opposition.ö You canÆt bluster and browbeat me with such low-grade rubbish. At this point its either put or shut up, I have placed an account of history on the public record that paints the leaders of the new Venal Empire/Northern Tit alliance/Social club, (or whatever its called) as dishonourable backstabbing dogs that were prepared to lay down with pirates and sell out an ally to placate and appease the Foresaken Empire.
Either you address my account and dispute the facts presented therein.
Or you accept that I am entirely right and presenting the unalloyed facts as they occurred.
I appreciate that HalsethÆs cronies didnÆt like me much. I know that, but thatÆs not the point. The point is, if a group of corporations is prepared to abandon a charter they all signed once, why should anyone believe they will not do it again at the drop of a magic hat?
Riddle me that?
JF Public Forum |
Halseth Durn
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:48:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 12/01/2004 02:53:27
Quote:
My my my. I'm trying to keep my neutral hat on here because I obviously cant know the situation, but I cant help but notice that no one has confronted Jades view of history.
All the Halseth supporters have done (including Halseth himself) is dismiss what she said without reason and then verbally attack Jade.
Perhaps you guys just dont understand how arguments are made and debates work. To make it short, people who just verbally attack people (or technically in this case electronically) end up having less and less credibility to your regular Joe and Jane. Why is that? Its because people see it as "mud slinging" they see that these people dont have a "point" to argue around and debate over, they see that since they dont have a pillar to stand on, all they can do is attack their opponents.
Obviously debating uses attacks, but it is subtle attacks that turn the debate in your favor. Remember, dont mudsling just for the sake of throwing mud, do it around an argument. (It is best not to throw around heavy attacks as it makes you look weak, this is true even if you have a strong arugment. IE. Dont call Jade the leader of the SS while rebuffing what she says, what you may do is lose a debate you could have won by appearing unintelligent).
So to sum this all up, if you dont understand what I'm saying, you are an idiot, also, will someone from Halseths camp (preferably Halseth) debate jade over this and address what she has said? Until you address what she has said, it makes you appear that all you have done is performed a 'backstabbing coup' (her words, not mine). -Kalki Nibiru
I LOVE this idea! Kalki, you are a genious!
Jade, m'dear, I challenge you to a neutrally moderated debate/discussion of these current issues and anything other topics of your choosing. We will conduct this debate on a Teamspeak or Ventrilo server with a non-participating audience. We will record this debate and then air it on eve-radio. If I were you, I would jump at this chance. And then we can finally end this once and for all.
M'dear, the ball is in your court.
Also:
Quote:
I appreciate that HalsethÆs cronies didnÆt like me much. I know that, but thatÆs not the point. The point is, if a group of corporations is prepared to abandon a charter they all signed once, why should anyone believe they will not do it again at the drop of a magic hat? -Jade Constantine
Simple, beccause this game changes from week to week. And for the people that actually go out into space in this wonderful game, If you cannot adapt to EVEs changes, you are dead.
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:50:00 -
[82]
omg...she is still going on about it...Jade ur done plz go away now - find a new political entitiy to embarass with your poor performance...
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:52:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/01/2004 02:53:42
Quote:
Jade, m'dear, I challenge you to a neutrally moderated debate/discussion of these current issues and anything other topics of your choosing. We will conduct this debate on a Teamspeak or Ventrilo server with a non-participating audience. We will record this debate and then air it on eve-radio. If I were you, I would jump at this chance. And then we can finally end this once and for all.
M'dear, the ball is in your court.
As the challenged party I choose location, and it will be in-game chat with press representatives in attendence ideally.
I suggest tomorrow evening 12 GMT sharp.
Channel details to be arranged by eve-mail.
The uneditted transcript to be made available on this corp forum after the engagement.
I trust this acceptable to you?
JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:54:00 -
[84]
What was that Anna?
Sounded like "blah blah blah, substance free personal attack blah" to me?
JF Public Forum |
Halseth Durn
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:56:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 12/01/2004 02:59:58
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 12/01/2004 02:57:41
Nope. Teamspeak or ventrillo. So much is lost in the cold, flat wold of written language. 
Besides I've allready wasted too many days of my life in game chat with you. Never again. We can get it done by voice in 20 mins. And furthermore, it will add so much content to the game by having EVE-radio broadcast your public undressing.
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
Homo Erectus
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:58:00 -
[86]
if you wanted to do a teamspeak debate, i would moderate it with glee. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:58:00 -
[87]
Chat or nothing Halseth. Take it or leave it.
(And if you choose to leave it, I will be happy to continue ripping your fragile credibility to bits for the edification of the watching audience right here Halseth).
JF Public Forum |
Anna Heart
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:59:00 -
[88]
... Jade doesn't want people to know she's a man...
FYI you can't get audio for EVE-Radio from a text log silly.. less you want Doby imitating your lovely man voice (I can see it already *wipes a tear of pure amusement*)
I say AUDIO or Halseth wins by defualt. Cause text is easily manipulated and altered to make anyone's point show as being more powerful. Vocal is much harder. If you don't wanna have people hear your real voice use a filter. either way say it OUT LOUD.
*doesn't think Jade has what it takes*
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
Gafton
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:59:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Gafton on 12/01/2004 03:05:04
Jade, i'm at a loss. Where do i lie? Please point it out to me, cause i'm not in sync with the jade universe.
Second i really didnt want to have to make 50 posts explaining everything. It doesnt do anything except contradict jades posting so then you either believe her or u believe us. Facts are facts. Oberon and Rona approached corporations and asked them if they wanted to join a new alliance w/o jericho. Corporations that wernt online at the time were never asked. If a corp didnt want to join they were asked to leave the chat. This resulted in a majority of nva corps in favor of a new alliance w/o jericho in it. If jade even read halseths original post she'd know why he listed all the corps in the new alliance when some were against it. But then nobody is perfect.
I'll write up a nice long post after this explaining the "other" side's view.
But before that, let me answer jades so important question. The reason why corporations abandoned the charter is because it didnt work. Why follow somthing that was old and non functional. Eve advances and evolves on a weekly basis. You either adapt or get left behind. We adapted and moved on. I suggest you do the same.
Edit: I'd much like a vocal debate than some 20 page text debate. Can explain points much faster and better than from text. But then maybe jade has something to hide.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:59:00 -
[90]
Quote:
My my my. I'm trying to keep my neutral hat on here because I obviously cant know the situation, but I cant help but notice that no one has confronted Jades view of history.
...
You say you can't know the situation. Then you acknowledge that what's presented is Jade's view of history.
Any sane person at this point would realize that continuing could very well be just an exercise in:
Who can lie better?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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