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Halseth Durn
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Posted - 2004.01.11 20:46:00 -
[1]
First, for those jumping on the "lets hate Oberon bandwagon", you are making these views based on what Jade Constantine says here on the boards. I have a secret for all of you. I have gotten to know her these last few months. Shes a liar, a manipulator, and her only weapon is this board. She lives for it. It is her sole desire to wield power from it by any means possible. If you believe half of anything she ever says, you are a sucker. Being this way, she must always have a target for her only weapon (this board). She has now chosen me to be her new "Ragnar", and everyone of you who read what she says, believes it, and then regurgitates it as "devine scripture" is a gulable fool.
As for the formation of this new alliance, Jade would have you all believe that I am the singular force behind this new begining. She wants you to believe that I alone made a deal with the FE to oust Jericho so we could join with them. This is another lie. Core members in the NVA had been trying to get her out of the NVA for weeks before. We all knew that when and if we ever restructured, Jericho would not be invited solely for the oportunity to leave Jade and her tiesome baggage behind. The only thing keeping us from removing Jericho before that time was the good people in Jericho. (how do you get rid of the CEO and keep the corp?)
At the time I wrote the post on our council forums that "someone" leaked to eve-guardian, Oberon was not alone in the views stated there. Rona, Rona-KIA, Conman, CYberdyne, GODS, 20th legion and a few other corps were going to vote "YES" for a merger. However, after last minute discussion we agreed that even though it was a interesting idea, it was much too fast, and not the best route for us at that time. Me "Selling out" the NVA is hardly a correct term.
As for bashing the name, The Northern Alliance (TNA), lighten up. It's a name in a game. It acurately descibes us, and its f-ing funny. (for those of you that don't get it, it also means T*TS 'N' *SS).
Reguarding some communication problems, there were some corps that simply could not be reached. Some people were just not online when we were making decions. Time was running out and we didn't have a 2 weeks for everyone to get around to voting. I am sorry if you felt left out, but this game moves a a fast pace. Being off-line for even one day can leave you "in the dark" all corp names but Jericho were put on the declaration simply because all were invited. If you don't like the name change, the closed borders and the lack of Jade, simply resign. no hard feelings.
Telling the truth in less than 6000 words,
Halseth
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 20:47:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 11/01/2004 21:08:29
As should be coming eminently clear to anyone following this story with a clear head and open mind. This whole matter is about scape-goating and avoiding the blame for personal mistakes.
Way back when the Foresaken war was in its younger days (and I was still doing NVA press, and Jericho was still running trade from Venal). The situation was that the miners (Halseth and co) mined, the npc-fighters fought their prey, and the traders traded, and thus we all had an equal stake in the fighting.
Jericho had a number of pilots that took a part in that war and anti-pirate campaign, (myself included) and though everyone didn't fight in the big set-piece late night battles that FE love, we did all play a part in the PB action and anti piratical campaign. I can name 10-12 Jericho pilots who engaged Foresaken Empire forces in one form or another, and can happily lay the "myth" that we didn't fight for the cause we espoused.
And lets face it. JF is a smallish corp. We don't have the numbers of Oberon, or the PvP bias of KIA/Rona, or the mega-mining 6 alt account afk-cash cow of CDI.
We are a corp of fun players using our mains to interact with the galaxy.
And while we are fighting in Venal (or wherever) we are not also afk-mining grid-roids to pay for the pleasure. Patrolling cuts into our profits, but it is something we used to do.
So what changed?
First, the NVA military didn't do very well. And lets face it, that is a mega-understatement.
Under Halseth Durn's command we suffered the worst fleet upset in Eve history and made ourselves the laughing stock of the forums with Archain's now famous video.
My job - to take the rap PR-wise for that fiasco.
Which I did.
Halseth's response? It wasn't his fault we had lost really, it was my fault for making the Foresaken Empire hate us so much that their uber combat tactics were unbeatable.
This continued.
We lost week after week after week after week.
Every time we lost there was blame to be laid, and guess what?
Because JF was not on Oberon/Rona/KIA teamspeak, and because I wasn't "one of the lads" the person lumbered with the blame for the must ineptly led and executed military campaigns in history was ... you guessed it ... me.
This wasn't a case of shooting the messenger.
No, this was blaming the news-anchor for the failure of your generals, captains, even fleet officers in every respect.
What was the real problem?
Greed in my opinion, the northern Mining corps of the NVA were not prepared to take up the challenge of funding an NVA military response.
Several times enlightened fleet commanders (like Raven de Blade, or DB Preacher, or Tankuk or many others) asked for council authority to raise a defence levy from the NVA corps (cash or mins) to constantly supply a hard-edged aggressive fleet.
Every time the NVA industrial corps vetoed the proposal and made sure it went no-where.
You see it was far cheaper to keep pretending that their mining fleet in Venal was a combat fleet presence, and because that existed, everyone else should rush and defend *them*.
NVA council was pretty much incapable of making decisions that would help the war.
JF Public Forum |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.01.11 20:47:00 -
[3]
I have one word: Paranoia.
P.S: Jade has two other weapons which, I've heard, she uses well too 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 20:48:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 11/01/2004 21:10:24
Some examples;
I recruited 4 combat-capable PvP corps of good name and high renown who wanted in on the war and membership of NVA so they could fight rats. There were fresh and ready and enthusiastic and represented a real chance to turn the tide.
Halseth and friends accused me of ôempire buildingö and trying to take power, and blocked the membership of these corps for weeks and weeks and weeks, insulting their CEOÆs, demeaning their effort, and insulting offering to resupply their ships lost in the cause of Venal for a ômereö 10% profit. (Which is a worse deal than Ragnar offered).
I gave a full briefing to the NVA command of the potential of plutonium trading as a revenue source. I provided routes and times and profit margins and did my best to organise a defence rota to cover the pureblind route. (this was a profit focus that could make a corp 100Æs of million isk an evening and easily replace ships)
Halseth and the mining corps just werenÆt interested. They preferred to mine for themselves and leave the traders to hang. They were not interested in allowing non-mining corps to have an alternative viable profit centre.
I hired mercenary corps to fight the Foresaken Empire in Geminate to take the pressure of NVA assets at home.
Again Halseth interfered, accusing me of going against the interests of the council and dealing with ôreformed ratsö for military gain. (I know this is hilarious given his public conversion to respect for pc-rat-hood published on Eve Guardian).
Jericho Fraction used to run the NVA forums, which hosted and administrated the NVA council and various public categories. (we made other NVA members mods and admins to promote trust and cooporations)
This represented an unacceptable level of influence for Halseth and co, and so they made use of non-jericho-moderator-obtained material from our private corporation forum to construct the laughable fiction that JF was going to defect to FE and betray the NVA.
In the course of one night they effectively sabotaged the old forums, built some new forums (where surprise surprise they made all the rules) Appointed an Oberon patsy as chairman, with a set of Oberon-friendly admins, and proceeded to take over every aspect of the NVA council.
When we raised our complaint to the NVA council that a moderator level NVA member had taken material from a private forum for propaganda purposes (an IC complaint chaps), guess what, Halseth made excuses and raised his hands in the air saying ôNVA canÆt get involved in disputes over spyingö.
So Jericho Fraction was effectively stripped of influence in the NVA, and made to sit beside corps that had lied about us, intrigued against us, and constructed ridiculous charges that we had intended to defect to FE.
You can imagine that the atmosphere in NVA was less than cordial at that point.
(This was the weekend I retired from the position of NVA PR rep by the way, the real reason being that I could no longer in any way represent an alliance capable of such actions and intrigue against allies, and I was heartily sick of being blamed for the lack of military success by Halseth and his cronies.)
Then of course came Castor and the environment changed.
Trade and NPC fighting disappeared as viable careers.
And guess what? The trading and NPC-hunting NVA corps smelled the roses and went to empire to run agents for tech2.
While the NVA mining corps discovered straggler-roid mining and began to get ridiculously rich.
An imbalance was created.
The NVA turned into ôhavesö and ôhave notÆsö. Now chaps lets think about NVA combat corps for a moment since JF is often accused by these people of not participating.
Reikoku, Celestial Apocalypse, Millenium, Deathstar, these are names that are always in the news for engaging, fighting and taking losses (and scalps) in battle with pirates. And yet in Castor they were left to hang by the NVA mining corps. They suffered financial deprivation and no support.
Some of them were down to corp budgets of under 100million isk. And these were our front line of combat corps in Pureblind (the access between Venal and Empire).
Whereas, Oberon, CDI and the northern miners were making an absolute fortune;
CDI alone have billions in the bank. They are able to around-the-clock afk rare-ore mine ôwith industrial shipsö.
Yet how often do we read about CDI combat pilots? Well we have Tankuk, who is a constant soldier and has been NVA forever. And?
Ummm,
They certainly donÆt match the numbers of the aforementioned southern fighting corps.
And they donÆt even match the numbers of JF fighters that have been involved in the war.
And yet they have harvested the wealth of Venal for entirely self corporate profits.
JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 20:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 11/01/2004 21:22:10
So, when Foresaken Empire changed tactics and moved from Pureblind to interdicting Northern Venal mining operations take a wild guess what happened?
The internal division between the NVA ôhavesö and ôhave-notsö was thrown into stark relief by the ludicrous demand that cash-starved southern corps should sacrifice their irreplaceable ships so that filthy rich mining corps could continue to mine in peace.
ItÆs not like we didnÆt offer to help.
All we asked for in return was a slice of the mining pie.
ôsureö they said, ôyou can mine with us in Venal but in exchange for sharing the secrets of castor-mining we want half of your mineral take as taxö.
Unsurprisingly we refused this ôgenerousö offer to become mining slaves of a fellow NVA corp.
Then of course came CriceÆs offer to end the war.
He proposed merger between NVA and FE to create a powerful Northern Alliance to dominate the top of the map and sweep down on the other allies in Eve.
Only the cost was that Halseth had to sell out Jericho.
I think it doesnÆt take a genius to read HalsethÆs own words on the issue and discover the truth about his intentions in that regard.
A little like a cut-price Ragnar, Halseth was asked to help fund the alliance as a whole with the benefits of his corpÆs mining knowledge, and instead of doing the stand-up, loyal, and visionary thing, he preferred to sell an ally to the enemy in exchange for a dishonourable peace.
And know the propaganda word is that all of the NVAÆs losses in the Foresaken war were down to me, and my big mouth.
ItÆs a tempting and simplistic conclusion, and given the number of EveÆs pirates who truly hate my guts with every fibre of their being, I suspect it will receive a fairly extensive cult following amongst the visionary challenged.
But letÆs face it,
The defeat and humiliation is my fault.
But not because of my attempts to continue the propaganda war of rhetoric and morale-building on the forums, lol, anyone who knows the littlest piece of the history of the region knows why the war happened.
No,
I am guilty for the war-defeat for one reason.
I recruited Oberon Inc to the NVA.
I carried the snake Halseth like an unwitting fool to our breast.
This chap has gone from devoted anti-pirate freedom-fighter and idealistic political visionary to gank-appeasing, low-grade backstabber, and mean-spirited mineral cartel chief in a few short months.
But donÆt take my word for it.
Halseth has two documents on the public record.
Read the NVA charter back to back with the Pro FE speech. Both are this manÆs work. Then tell me I am wrong to name him a puling hypocritical excuse for a political turncoat.
I respect people with consistent views and honourable attitude.
Those that can sign charters and bin them for expedience from selfish personal gain are despicable and weak.
Our reputations are all we have.
You will have to live with yours Hal.
JF Public Forum |
Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2004.01.11 20:51:00 -
[6]
You can do it Jade ..... 4 
Mongo speaks !!
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.11 20:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 11/01/2004 21:04:06
Lol, ah well Mongo, I made it fit into 3 rather than 4.
The problem with Halseth's claim that the truth is simple and explainable in a quick burst of personal rhetoric is that it isn't simple, and it can't be explained so perfectly.
This is all pretty complex when taken in one bite.
And you really do have to come to this fresh to understand it.
For months the powerstructure has raged in the NVA, and from loyalty to the alliance it has been kept away from the forums almost totally.
Only now since Halseth has slit the throat of the NVA is it appropriate to tell the full truth about what went on.
And guess what, Halseth can't stop this.
Lies are always discovered.
Treachery is revealed.
Dirty little secrets come to light.
You have build your empire on much and grime mr Durn.
Time to pay the piper.
JF Public Forum |
Artegg
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Posted - 2004.01.11 20:58:00 -
[8]
Halseth you have my total support and the rest of RONA's
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Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2004.01.11 20:58:00 -
[9]
And they say "you have no sense of humour"
Mongo speaks !!
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KIAPieman
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:04:00 -
[10]
just drop it jade, its over, lets just move on.
Halseth, i look forward to fighting by your side.
--------------------------------------------------------
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:08:00 -
[11]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 11/01/2004 21:10:16
Well, isn't this interesting..
edit: When my corp was considering joining an alliance, people had this to say..
corpmate1 > What about Venal?
corpmate2 > We're not touching that one with a 10au pole..
CEO > Uh. No.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:23:00 -
[12]
 Quote:
And guess what, Halseth can't stop this.
Lies are always discovered.
Treachery is revealed.
Dirty little secrets come to light.
You have build your empire on much and grime mr Durn.
Time to pay the piper.
What lies? What dirty secrets?
Everything halseth has said above AFAIK is the truth.
Also how has Halseth slit the throat on the NVA?
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:32:00 -
[13]
Quote:
What lies? What dirty secrets?
Everything halseth has said above AFAIK is the truth.
Also how has Halseth slit the throat on the NVA?
He lied about the FE demand to eject Jericho as a prerequisite to merger.
Re the truth, since you cared so little about the earlier spying incident I hardly think you are best placed to talk about honest conduct.
And Halseth has declared The Northern Alliance.
That is symbolically slit the throat of the NVA. The to be honest, I think he delivered a fatal belly wound with his treacherous dealing with Foresaken empire.
JF Public Forum |
Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:35:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Robeyone on 11/01/2004 21:37:47
Jade we have spoken on numerous occasions but I have to say that everywhere you put Halseth you need to put the bulk of the NVA corps. I know for a fact that everything you are saying about Halseth also had the support of RONA/KIA and other corps in the NVA. You designed the process for the vote and it was majority every time including smaller corporation that were not these so called mega-industrial corporations. I think this has turned into a Halseth is a "Ragnar" target pr campaign and I have to say that you are just replacing NVA with Halseth. I think it is a bit unfair and in the end we have to say this.
"The new alliances, currently called the TNA, have made our bed and have chosen to lie in it. Now we have to move on with that decision and suffer the consequences of our actions. This was our choice as an ORGANIZATION and now we work together for the betterment of our corporation and our new organization."
http://www.ronacorp.com |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:37:00 -
[15]
"Also how has Halseth slit the throat on the NVA?"
... Well, i think it was announced there's no more NVA -- there's now a 'Tits'n'Asses'* alliance. Whoever was behind that decision, effectively killed the NVA... simple.
*) secondary meaning, according to Mr.Halseth; have to wonder how long before people start to shorten it to just 'Ass Alliance', and/or take predictable pot-shots at it... oh well. ;s
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Dendron
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:38:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Telling the truth in less than 6000 words
Not something Jade is very succesfull at.
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:38:00 -
[17]
There's no secrets or dirty lies Jade. Halseth has included everyone in discussions all along the way.
Halseth was nothing more than upfront with his views, which he was always very public about, as you can see from the information leaked to EVE guardian. I don't see anything sneaky or underhand about that.
Miso stated that she doesn't consider herself part of the nva anymore, and noone can hold space anyway so what's the big deal?
The Jericho member who I'm truely going to miss is Maud'Dib who's always been there, and has always been a blast to talk to.
As for Jericho KOS, I don't think that's nessecery, and not sure anyone has the authority to declare that yet.
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:42:00 -
[18]
Edited by: KIAHicks on 11/01/2004 21:46:46
Quote:
Re the truth, since you cared so little about the earlier spying incident I hardly think you are best placed to talk about honest conduct.
You want to know why I didn't care Jade? Beacus you and Athule directly stated the spy was an administrator ie me, Halseth or Gafton. We promised you we wern't, you wouldn't accept it. Krullz told you we wern't you wouldn't beleive us.
Why should I then care about the incident when you won't beleive a word I said on the matter? and now guess what, you've got it in for Halseth.
I personally just think you thrive on conflict in the forums, you enjoy argueing issues, and to be honest I think your one of the few people who does.
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:44:00 -
[19]
No worries Halseth Durn, no one has beliefed Jade, she is merely making posts for her self and our enjoyment.
At least I hope peaple dont belief her.
Spawn of the Devil
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:45:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Jade we have spoken on numerous occasions but I have to say that everywhere you put Halseth you need to put the bulk of the NVA corps.
I am aware that he speaks for a fair number of NVA corps Robeyone. But thats the point. He speaks for them. Just as I have been targetted in the past for speaking for a cause. He came to the forums with accusations against me to justify his pro FE stance and pro Jericho ejection agenda. I excercise my right of reply.
Quote:
I think this has turned into a Halseth is a "Ragnar" target pr campaign and I have to say that you are just replacing NVA with Halseth. I think it is a bit unfair and in the end we have to say this.
There are many corporations that we in the NVA, and have been falsely listed by Halseth in the new declaration of the TNA. Since at the moment it is clear he has overstepped his reach in this matter, I prefer to assume that corps will speak their own mind, and not allow Halseth to speak for them. Hence I direct my comments towards the man since he has thrown down the gauntlet of debate.
Quote:
"The new alliances, currently called the TNA, have made our bed and have chosen to lie in it. Now we have to move on with that decision and suffer the consequences of our actions. This was our choice as an ORGANIZATION and now we work together for the betterment of our corporation and our new organization."
And if you had made the annoucement Robeyone, I imagine it would have been clean of the self-justification and slander that Halseth failed to avoid.
JF Public Forum |
Mr Vapor
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:48:00 -
[21]
Actually, I read every single thing in this post. I think you are all extremely screwed in the head and I'm glad I never joined a corporation in one of these huge alliances. Full of backstabbers and liars all around it seems to me.
"Fear me like you fear God." |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:49:00 -
[22]
Quote:
You want to know why I didn't care Jade? Beacus you and Athule directly stated the spy was an administrator ie me, Halseth or Gafton. We promised you we wern't, you wouldn't accept it. Krullz told you we wern't you wouldn't beleive us.
Well here is the thing Hicks, at the time Krullz swore blind that it was a jericho internal spy and not an admin.
Now Krullz has told me the truth. And it wasn't a Jericho internal spy.
So where does that leave us?
Halseth knows who did this.
And yet he chose to protect the spy. Thats hardly creditable behaviour for a man who begins his tirade by embracing the "truth".
And thats the point
JF Public Forum |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:50:00 -
[23]
Keep it clean.
That means, no personal insults, no trolling, no nothing.
That goes for both sides.
Join the IC! |
Iron Mike
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:52:00 -
[24]
Halseth, it would be interesting to hear your side of this story without the mudslinging of your (and your new allies) previous posts.
If its one thing that Jade has going for her, she uses and argument to make her point rather than attack to make her point and that will always read and be interpreted better than someone slinging mud.
As far as things go right now, Jade wins the credibility because it appears she is telling the truth where as you are just attacking her.
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Homo Erectus
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Posted - 2004.01.11 21:55:00 -
[25]
ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the sims online
Quote:
That means, no personal insults, no trolling, no nothing.
where you can take away weeks of another player's work, steal, kill, and loot him, but there will be no NAUGHTY things said.
awww, you just blew up my battleship and podded me! i lost a month of work and effort. YOU MEANIE HEAD!!!11
HOMO I AM SOMEBODY...SOMEBODY WHO SAYS WHAT NO ONE ELSE IN CAREBEAR REALM DARE SAY, YOUR A GREIFER WHO IS A LEGEND IN YOUR OWN MIND! YOU NEED TO WAKE FROM YOUR DILUSION THAT EVERYONE LIKES YOU AND THAT YOUR THE MASTER OF EVE.
- fanboy, Q1 2004 |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:00:00 -
[26]
Quote:
ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the sims online
I'm quite serious.
Join the IC! |
LLeBRing
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:01:00 -
[27]
This topic is stupid, Halseth shouldn't have to defend himself. There is no NVA and such there is no Jade. End of discussion
Seeing Jades face as she finds out she is noboddy again....... absolutely freeking priceless
Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella |
Stavros
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:01:00 -
[28]
Yes jade you are FULLY the biggest meanie head I have EvER seen in my life!
MEANIE!
!!!!
:(
Also orestes is a UBER SUPER MEANIE HEAD WITH SPRINKLES :(
I dont see what was offensive about my post :(
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Toulak
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:02:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Reikoku, Celestial Apocalypse, Millenium, Deathstar, these are names that are always in the news for engaging, fighting and taking losses (and scalps) in battle with pirates. And yet in Castor they were left to hang by the NVA mining corps. They suffered financial deprivation and no support.
Some of them were down to corp budgets of under 100million isk. And these were our front line of combat corps in Pureblind (the access between Venal and Empire).
So god damn true.
Quote:
There's no secrets or dirty lies Jade. Halseth has included everyone in discussions all along the way.
Thats funny I've been talkin to many corps that were in the NVA and no one has the friggin foggiest idea wtf is going on.
And we STILL dont know what the hell is going on. Seems that the only corps that do know is CDI/Rona/Rona-kia/Bladerunners/Oberon and maybe one or two more.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:03:00 -
[30]
I can't believe no-one quoted:
"TRUTH!? You CANT handle the TRUTH!"
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:07:00 -
[31]
I know Toulak, and here is the sad thing. I told the total truth in that account but Halseth's goons and the pirate trollers don't care about anything but wrecking this thread since the argument has gone against them.
Its the same old same old.
And I just wish people would be banned from this forum for repeat senseless trolling of other peoples posts and threads.
JF Public Forum |
Beringe
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:11:00 -
[32]
This is so dramatic.
I wonder if I could turn this into a news story without being flamed to cinders.
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:18:00 -
[33]
"I wonder if I could turn this into a news story without being flamed to cinders."
Without flames? No.
... Do it. :p
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Christopher Xen
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:21:00 -
[34]
Halseth you rid yourself of a great evil by doing what you did, and while our paths differ from yours, you did the right thing in a right way, the NVA loyalists will soon learn they are lost with out you.
As for Jade there is no NVA, youve been defeated, youve been slammed into the pages of Eve history, take waht ever honor and accomplishments you still have, and knock it off.
You got screwed in almost the same way you screwed TTI.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.01.11 22:24:00 -
[35]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 11/01/2004 22:25:14
I hate this.
I hate the lies, the bull**** and the mo-fo's who are trying to discredit my corp.
We stand for what is right, we have fought for the NVA for months now and never asked for anything.
We NEVER wanted FE in and we made that plainly clear.
Shortly afterwards, we were NEVER contacted again from the NVA.
From our first steps within the NVA, RKK was helped financially by jericho. Jade is a friend, as is many of thier corp. She has never tried to lead RKK nor sway me to follow her path.
She doesn't desire ultimate power. If that was the case, then she could have split the NVA up a month ago when I called for a vote to make her ultimate leader of the NVA. Instead, she resigned as spokesperson for the NVA and declined the position. Hardly the methods of a megalomaniac.
I heard this evening that the TNA is considering making Reikoku KOS. This is simply unbelievable. We have shown no aggression towards the TNA and have simply pulled out.
We COULD have sold you all down the river, we chose to follow our morales as a GOOD corp who do nothing but fight pirates. It hardly sounds like "no hard feelings." when we are under that threat.
I feel disgusted by this whole ordeal.
A 14 year old with no political clue has taken control of TNA. I hope those you remain are all prepared to deal with that.
I wash my hands of the whole thing but understand this, I will NOT attack a TNA member unless fired upon.
P.S. Stavros: you would pick a 14 year old to idolise. Says everything about you really.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:25:00 -
[36]
Chris Xen says.
Quote:
take what ever honor and accomplishments you still have, and knock it off.
I don't think so Chris.
JF Public Forum |
Halseth Durn
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:26:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 11/01/2004 22:30:07
I got to roughly the middle of her second page, and then just said "screw-it". Skipped down where the important people who play this game (not the forum) started posting.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:29:00 -
[38]
Doesn't surprise me at all that you can't answer the questions Halseth.
Not at all.
JF Public Forum |
Miso
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:29:00 -
[39]
lol@KIA. I used to think of you as a vaguely intelligent corp. Not anymore.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Halo Jones
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:31:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Edited by: DB Preacher on 11/01/2004 22:25:14
I heard this evening that the TNA is considering making Reikoku KOS. This is simply unbelievable. We have shown no aggression towards the TNA and have simply pulled out.
We COULD have sold you all down the river, we chose to follow our morales as a GOOD corp who do nothing but fight pirates. It hardly sounds like "no hard feelings." when we are under that threat.
This is in no way true.
RKK are completely NAP with the new allaince.
There will be no KOS, and our position will not be changing. There are an incredible amount of rumours flying. We had been told that you guys were now camping at blockades with EPA. Again not true.
This sound like a case of someone attempting to play both sides against the middle.
We are NAP with RKK and will remain so.
Oberon Incorporated. |
DB Preacher
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:39:00 -
[41]
Quote:
We had been told that you guys were now camping at blockades with EPA. Again not true.
LOL
RKK wouldnt spit on EPA if they were on fire. Mainly because we would have put them on fire.
RKK will NEVER side with pirates.
We are a pirate hunting corp, simple as that.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
|
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:45:00 -
[42]
I AM NOT SAYING WHO IS RIGHT, WRONG ETC ETC, OR PICKING ANY SIDES HERE OK.
What I find so amazing about this story, is just sitting back watching venal destroy itself and tear itself asunder time and again. Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. You all are certainly a case study. Just imagine if you guys worked together for real.
From my vantagepoint, it would appear that the one true "value" that all those in venal have held most dear over the course of it's history, is that of backstabbing one another.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:47:00 -
[43]
Quote:
I AM NOT SAYING WHO IS RIGHT, WRONG ETC ETC, OR PICKING ANY SIDES HERE OK.
What I find so amazing about this story, is just sitting back watching venal destroy itself and tear itself asunder time and again. Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. You all are certainly a case study. Just imagine if you guys worked together for real.
From my vantagepoint, it would appear that the one true "value" that all those in venal have held most dear over the course of it's history, is that of backstabbing one another.
No comment on what's currently happening...still got my neutral hat going
But look up the word 'venal'.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Artegg
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:50:00 -
[44]
Quote:
I AM NOT SAYING WHO IS RIGHT, WRONG ETC ETC, OR PICKING ANY SIDES HERE OK.
What I find so amazing about this story, is just sitting back watching venal destroy itself and tear itself asunder time and again. Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. You all are certainly a case study. Just imagine if you guys worked together for real.
From my vantagepoint, it would appear that the one true "value" that all those in venal have held most dear over the course of it's history, is that of backstabbing one another.
You would thing but i have not seen the Venal crew work so well together as they have in the last 2 days 
|
Raven DeBlade
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:54:00 -
[45]
i asked all involved parties to refrain from flaiming the boards with these issues, and instead take it to a common discussion were all involved parties can talk. These threads doesnt solve anything, it just adds to the bad blood. So for the final time i PLEAD Jade, Halseth and everyone else PLEASE discuss this at another location under civilized forms.
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:56:00 -
[46]
Quote:
[But look up the word 'venal'.
Oh my.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:00:00 -
[47]
Quote:
i asked all involved parties to refrain from flaiming the boards with these issues, and instead take it to a common discussion were all involved parties can talk. These threads doesnt solve anything, it just adds to the bad blood. So for the final time i PLEAD Jade, Halseth and everyone else PLEASE discuss this at another location under civilized forms.
I hear you Raven, and I sympathise with your objective, and I will come and talk this over anywhere and anytime. A situation has been created where my corporation has been targetted and betrayed by allies and it needs resolving.
If you can make a meeting happen then fine.
What I cannot promise is not to respond to lies and nonsense spread about my corporation and my own actions.
I will have right to reply.
But that doesn't mean I am not prepared to listen.
JF Public Forum |
Beringe
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:02:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Beringe on 11/01/2004 23:03:45
Quote:
No comment on what's currently happening...still got my neutral hat going
But look up the word 'venal'.
Holy...
Whoever named that region must have had a prophetic moment.
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:04:00 -
[49]
By the way Beringe, if you want to do an interview I'd be happy to volunteer.
JF Public Forum |
Beringe
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:10:00 -
[50]
Quote:
By the way Beringe, if you want to do an interview I'd be happy to volunteer.
I'll take you up on that, come monday.
Of course, I will also interview Halseth Durn for balance.
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:17:00 -
[51]
excellent!
Tell you what, if you really want some hilarity and hijinks ... put me and Halseth in a chat channel and lets have a open debate.
;)
JF Public Forum |
Beringe
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:18:00 -
[52]
Heh, I respectfully reject that suggestion.
It would be a bugger to edit.
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Halo Jones
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:21:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Halo Jones on 11/01/2004 23:34:46
Edited for my lack of eloquence, unfortunately I do not have the prowess with words that many others posess.
There is an alliance in the Northern regions of space. It is similar in content to the alliance that existed last week. RKK have left of their own wishes and are setting up home in pure blind, and JF were not invited to join.
JF were not invited to join because of you, that has been made abundantly clear by a number of corporation leaders. Halseth simply posted the statement of this last evening, and you have chosen him for personal attacks since then.
Althought you and Halseth may not get on personally, make depise each other in fact for all I know, a new alliance has been created, one the member of JF are welcome to join, but you are not.
There is no issue that you are no longer wanted. Let the matter rest.
Oberon Incorporated. |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:21:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Edited by: Beringe on 11/01/2004 23:03:45
Quote:
No comment on what's currently happening...still got my neutral hat going
But look up the word 'venal'.
Holy...
Whoever named that region must have had a prophetic moment.
Would be like making a home in a region named 'Pasture'
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:28:00 -
[55]
Debate's reveal the truth Halo, they reveal a lot about a situation (often an awful lot more than the people involved might wish).
You say the situation is over, but thats not really how these things are done.
Takes both sides to shake hands in a truce.
Some people in your alliance want this resolved as much as people in ours do.
Just because Oberon wants it all swept under the carpet does not draw a line under the issue.
JF Public Forum |
olyyy
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:57:00 -
[56]
hmmmm betrayers looking for excuses 
btw after watching the TNA fleet operating yesterday... erm... Run for your lives 
No frankly Halseth, you killed the nva by betrayal... Since u have no honor and no morality... why don't u merge with FE now ? Don't tell me u don't trust pirates and that they are backstabbers... Or maybe they have a higher morality than u...
Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 ) |
Rual Storge
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 00:04:00 -
[57]
Ok, I'm gonna step out of the dark in these forums and say my mind. The only 4 actualy threads I really took part in turned into a bloody mess of flame... I don't care if this happens again but as I can see Jade's four pos long post... I think I should put in my two cents.
I as Infinicorp Military Director fully support what Halseth has made here. And for Jade's endless manipulation of the masses with her never ending, and frankly I think needs to be cut off at this point, serpent tounge I feel the EVE community is getting a misdisplay of this entire alliance.
Halseth and Robeyone made this all happen, it wasn't so they could mine in safety as a very large number of Rona are pure PvP. It was so we could potect and enjoy the territory we claim without a single dision being done by simply stating "this is how it is" (people whine) or a vote that takes a week, which by then the situation has passed.
This system has been destroyed Jericho did not come with the alliance primarily because of Jade. Our war with FE was originaly fueled by Jade. The constant annoyance of 4 post essays that are comparable to reading war and peace, yep you got it Jade.
Jade has power that can't be argued, she knows how to use her words to sway the masses. I am here with a feeling of fighting on her terms as though I can be good with my words, I cannot master the manipulative serpant toung as she has.
TNA (or what we call it post contest) does not support piracy in anyway we aren't large stuffed animals with hearts for noses, and we aren't some buddies puppet.
We are however an organized force of pilots protecting what OUR territory and our own interests. We no longer operate under a slow forum system where players (not pilot) like Jade are able to seize power, but a system where we can deside in seconds if nessisary. We are the TNA (til name is improved on) and we are here in Venal. We will fight for Venal, and we will protect our own.
Jade, yes long ago you actualy had helped, but now you simply waste 1s and 0s in binary code that everyone in this thread has loaded without value.
-Rual Storge out
Rual Storge, Battlestars, CEO |
KIAPieman
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 00:06:00 -
[58]
ok i feel compelled to post now. i wasnt going to because i think ill be told i have my nose burried up halseths butt by some partys.
Halseth is the person who posted the original message THAT IS ALL. as per jade did, the only power he holds is his opinion in a voting situation. stop trying to tell everyone that we are all on his leash. i notice we are getting the usual people jumping on the bandwagon of ranting away whilst not having a CLUE on what the real situation is. Halseth is one of those rare people you meet who is open about his ideas and feeling to ideas and i am proud to be able to fight along side him.
Halseth just close your ears now and chant STFU n00b out loud, then the nasty voices wll go away.
--------------------------------------------------------
|
Anna Heart
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 00:22:00 -
[59]
Well I'm gonna but in as I do from time to time...
But from as I've heard it from Rual, Venal DID NOT "backstab" anyone who was part of Venal. As I see it only one pilot from Jericho in Venal usualy. I have no problem with Jericho personaly in fact if the masses of Jericho came up and said "Hey guys lets do this!" and really put their war faces on I could see taking em back (not Jade, sorry but shes a <censored so the moderators don't have to>)
Basicly Venal said who's here fighting or supplying our cause?... who is not?... Just like layoffs you eigther worked hard enough to be in, or you go find yourself a new gig.
As for Venal turning on itself again and again, you'll find mostly a group of core corps have stood in most of the time while outside corps came in and out... Besides with the lack of consiquences of this game in time everyone alliance will be betrayed and mutanies will occur it's how the nature of this game is.
Heck that's life. you don't give you're neighbor your life savings info. Why? all the more reason to backstab you only on EVE you can't press a law suit.
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
XpoHoc
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 00:29:00 -
[60]
 |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 00:34:00 -
[61]
Its all very well you chaps queuing up to offer pat praises and propaganda in favour of the new order. And hell, lets face it, you have the power to do what you want regardless of justification.
But do realise that just avoiding the points I have placed on public record does make you look a tad shifty (and/or) misinformed.
JF Public Forum |
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 00:49:00 -
[62]
Quote:
Basicly Venal said who's here fighting or supplying our cause?... who is not?... Just like layoffs you eigther worked hard enough to be in, or you go find yourself a new gig.
The interesting thing is that when JF was informed about this we were told to remove 5 pilots from the various gangs that were forming. Two others had logged off already due to all comms having been dropped an hour or so earlier. A number that isn't that bad IMHO considering simultaneous online for us generally varies between 10 and 15 in the evenings and we aren't even a primarily combat corp. Equally interesting is that none of the Pure Blind based corporations seem to have been consulted about this before being placed in the new alliance, and several will be 'leaving' TNA (although how you can leave an alliance without being asked if you want to be a member or not in the first place is beyond me).
What appears to have happened is that the corporations based in the north of Venal have decided to have a go on their own. Good luck to them, at least they aren't pirates - for now anyway. Critically bad communications seems to have led them to believe that none of the corporations in the south were even there, never mind consulting them.
Jericho has had issues with the alliance for a while now - many of them down to the policy of some corporations placing spies in others. We were almost certain to leave in the immediate future in any case - I even told a potential recruit that we were unlikely to be in the NVA in a week's time. The NVA was riddled with mistrust, false accusations, FE spies and NVA spies. Hardly an alliance most corporations would want to stay members of.
I am not saying these atitudes extend to all members of TNA, but even amongst the people it doesn't it seems to be acceptable behaviour for the rest. I think you sum this up neatly with "Besides with the lack of consiquences of this game in time everyone alliance will be betrayed and mutanies will occur it's how the nature of this game is." - does that sound like the words from someone you want to be in an alliance with???
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 00:50:00 -
[63]
"Venal is Cursed Ö"
@ been telling y'all for sometime now, don't go there, never base there and, never, ever, put the V-word into an alliance name...
it simply invites disastor.
|
Gafton
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 00:59:00 -
[64]
Sadly I have to post in this **** pile of posts. Jade the long and short of it is that not many people like you. You thrive on tourmoil and conflict. You always have to prove your point is right and that you're perfect. That's your major character flaw. I have no problem with jericho, its you that i dont like. The sooner you can accept that fact the better. If you're gonna target halseth as your new ragnar in your personal vendetta you might as well add me to the list. I'm tired of your ****. The only weapon you have is spin on events. Does it work? Yes. However here's the problem, if we had held a vote to kick you out of the alliance, it would have passed. You'd still yell backstabber! and go on a rant again and we'd be in the same spot. Move on, people already have. Your time is done
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:08:00 -
[65]
Problem is Gafton thats kind after the event justification isn't it?
My issue isn't that a kick out vote was done. Whatever, thats down to the personalities, and lets face it, I don't exactly rate you terribly highly after you stated support of same-alliance spying and intrigue and sabotage. I pretty much told you that I believed your way was destructive and trust-eroded.
But whatever,
My issues are laid out in the posts at the beginning of this thread.
If you choose not to answer my charges and account of events then I have to assume you either can't justify the things that happened, or you are simply joining the "lets hurl some abuse and hope nobody notices that Jade is completely accurate in her assessment of what happened."
Lets face it, so far nobody has disputed a word I have said with the slightest credibility.
JF Public Forum |
Serak Tur
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:10:00 -
[66]
If you had had a vote Gafton? I thought Halseth said it was a unanimous decision???
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:17:00 -
[67]
Don't take everything Halseth says for granted. His definition of "unanimous is as twisted as his ethics".
He means he snarled "lets boot jericho because jade has a smart mouth" in teamspeak, and Artegg and CDI and KIA said fine.
There was no formal vote, and no attempt to follow the charter rules that he helped draft.
Half the corps he listed as being involved with the "unanimous" vote where nowhere close to being involved in the process.
I would have a hell of a lot more respect for these TINA chaps if they actually said,
"hell yes Jade, we stuck the knife in real good, muhahhahahaha"
It's possible to respect a decent bit of real villainy.
All this cringing justification and doubtletalk ass-kissing is kinda sad to watch.
(yet compelling)
JF Public Forum |
DB Preacher
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:19:00 -
[68]
Quote:
However here's the problem, if we had held a vote to kick you out of the alliance, it would have passed.
If it was a full vote including all those in the alliance, it simply would not have passed.
There would have been about 5 YAY's and 7 NAY's and the rest would have said "let's not rock the boat."
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
|
Sassinak
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:29:00 -
[69]
OMG I read the whole thread.. I want to kill myself now 
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Gafton
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:44:00 -
[70]
the reason nobody has replied to your posts jade is because it's not worth our time to read. It also will do nothing. You will just say we're lying bla bla bla, and the situation will stay as it is now. As for supporting spies, I have no problem with it. But that's because I have nothing to hide.
To serek, an official vote on our forums would have been the correct way to go. However that would have taken weeks to finally get everyone there to actually vote. What we did was vote jade style. Talk to whoever was online for their thoughts, comments, and then vote on the issue. Isnt that the same process you've used in the past jade?
db is corrent in assuming the vote wouldnt pass, but not for people in support of jade. The reason it wouldnt pass is because nobody reads our forums to actually vote on it. Only a handful of people actually post there anymore which is kind of sad.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:47:00 -
[71]
Oh just stop it Gafton, just admit you pulled of a effective backstab coup and leave it at that. All these silly little excuses and wriggling-fits make you chaps look petty.
JF Public Forum |
Rebellion
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:54:00 -
[72]
What a mess. :o
|
Gafton
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:55:00 -
[73]
petty is writing multiple post responces on the boards for moral support in your troubling hour or rejection.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 02:09:00 -
[74]
No gafton, petty is posting pointless excuses in an attempt to justify your position at the end of a thread without bothering to address the material at the beginning.
Oh yes, you couldn't be bothered to consider the debate.
But you could be bothered to hurl a little muck and tell a few lies at the end.
How very noble of you.
JF Public Forum |
Tassadar Beta
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 02:15:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Tassadar Beta on 12/01/2004 02:16:56
Im not entirely sure whats going on here, to me it just looks like people are trying to get one over each other a little too much instead of objectifying anything.
I know ppl such as Halseth from the beta and I could chose to throw my own personal byast but I wont, I just wish everyone else could do the same.
|
Kalki Nibiru
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 02:20:00 -
[76]
My my my. I'm trying to keep my neutral hat on here because I obviously cant know the situation, but I cant help but notice that no one has confronted Jades view of history.
All the Halseth supporters have done (including Halseth himself) is dismiss what she said without reason and then verbally attack Jade.
Perhaps you guys just dont understand how arguments are made and debates work. To make it short, people who just verbally attack people (or technically in this case electronically) end up having less and less credibility to your regular Joe and Jane. Why is that? Its because people see it as "mud slinging" they see that these people dont have a "point" to argue around and debate over, they see that since they dont have a pillar to stand on, all they can do is attack their opponents.
Obviously debating uses attacks, but it is subtle attacks that turn the debate in your favor. Remember, dont mudsling just for the sake of throwing mud, do it around an argument. (It is best not to throw around heavy attacks as it makes you look weak, this is true even if you have a strong arugment. IE. Dont call Jade the leader of the SS while rebuffing what she says, what you may do is lose a debate you could have won by appearing unintelligent).
So to sum this all up, if you dont understand what I'm saying, you are an idiot, also, will someone from Halseths camp (preferably Halseth) debate jade over this and address what she has said? Until you address what she has said, it makes you appear that all you have done is performed a 'backstabbing coup' (her words, not mine).
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
.
<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Dracule
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 02:24:00 -
[77]
Jade you are not wanted in the new alliance so please stop whining, you are making your corp members look bad.
Doesnt matter why it happaned and no need to talk about it all the time, you should just get on and get over it.
As it is now you only look like a whining baby that lost its candy.
|
Christopher Xen
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 02:31:00 -
[78]
Quote:
OMG I read the whole thread.. I want to kill myself now
Im not even done and im preparing for seppuku.
|
Christopher Xen
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 02:34:00 -
[79]
Quote:
the reason nobody has replied to your posts jade is because it's not worth our time to read. It also will do nothing. You will just say we're lying bla bla bla, and the situation will stay as it is now. As for supporting spies, I have no problem with it. But that's because I have nothing to hide.
To serek, an official vote on our forums would have been the correct way to go. However that would have taken weeks to finally get everyone there to actually vote. What we did was vote jade style. Talk to whoever was online for their thoughts, comments, and then vote on the issue. Isnt that the same process you've used in the past jade?
db is corrent in assuming the vote wouldnt pass, but not for people in support of jade. The reason it wouldnt pass is because nobody reads our forums to actually vote on it. Only a handful of people actually post there anymore which is kind of sad.
This is why we are an empire and NOT a democracy/beuracracy. Its so sloppy, sure we ask what people would like, and 99.9% we go with it but, damn you guys go full bore.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 02:43:00 -
[80]
And who exactly are you mr Dracule ôweird looking chappy who I have never seen beforeö?
DonÆt you realise that by posting ôblah blah blah, personal attack, blahö you are proving the point made by Kalki Nibiru in the post above?
This thread is absolutely nothing but our side of the argument making valid points and describing things that happened in fact, while your side of the argument makes no points or valid statements beyond pointless personal attacks.
And you know the funny thing?
I read nonsense like your post and I think ôhey thatÆs one more nail in the coffin of the opposition.ö You canÆt bluster and browbeat me with such low-grade rubbish. At this point its either put or shut up, I have placed an account of history on the public record that paints the leaders of the new Venal Empire/Northern Tit alliance/Social club, (or whatever its called) as dishonourable backstabbing dogs that were prepared to lay down with pirates and sell out an ally to placate and appease the Foresaken Empire.
Either you address my account and dispute the facts presented therein.
Or you accept that I am entirely right and presenting the unalloyed facts as they occurred.
I appreciate that HalsethÆs cronies didnÆt like me much. I know that, but thatÆs not the point. The point is, if a group of corporations is prepared to abandon a charter they all signed once, why should anyone believe they will not do it again at the drop of a magic hat?
Riddle me that?
JF Public Forum |
Halseth Durn
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:48:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 12/01/2004 02:53:27
Quote:
My my my. I'm trying to keep my neutral hat on here because I obviously cant know the situation, but I cant help but notice that no one has confronted Jades view of history.
All the Halseth supporters have done (including Halseth himself) is dismiss what she said without reason and then verbally attack Jade.
Perhaps you guys just dont understand how arguments are made and debates work. To make it short, people who just verbally attack people (or technically in this case electronically) end up having less and less credibility to your regular Joe and Jane. Why is that? Its because people see it as "mud slinging" they see that these people dont have a "point" to argue around and debate over, they see that since they dont have a pillar to stand on, all they can do is attack their opponents.
Obviously debating uses attacks, but it is subtle attacks that turn the debate in your favor. Remember, dont mudsling just for the sake of throwing mud, do it around an argument. (It is best not to throw around heavy attacks as it makes you look weak, this is true even if you have a strong arugment. IE. Dont call Jade the leader of the SS while rebuffing what she says, what you may do is lose a debate you could have won by appearing unintelligent).
So to sum this all up, if you dont understand what I'm saying, you are an idiot, also, will someone from Halseths camp (preferably Halseth) debate jade over this and address what she has said? Until you address what she has said, it makes you appear that all you have done is performed a 'backstabbing coup' (her words, not mine). -Kalki Nibiru
I LOVE this idea! Kalki, you are a genious!
Jade, m'dear, I challenge you to a neutrally moderated debate/discussion of these current issues and anything other topics of your choosing. We will conduct this debate on a Teamspeak or Ventrilo server with a non-participating audience. We will record this debate and then air it on eve-radio. If I were you, I would jump at this chance. And then we can finally end this once and for all.
M'dear, the ball is in your court.
Also:
Quote:
I appreciate that HalsethÆs cronies didnÆt like me much. I know that, but thatÆs not the point. The point is, if a group of corporations is prepared to abandon a charter they all signed once, why should anyone believe they will not do it again at the drop of a magic hat? -Jade Constantine
Simple, beccause this game changes from week to week. And for the people that actually go out into space in this wonderful game, If you cannot adapt to EVEs changes, you are dead.
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:50:00 -
[82]
omg...she is still going on about it...Jade ur done plz go away now - find a new political entitiy to embarass with your poor performance...
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:52:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/01/2004 02:53:42
Quote:
Jade, m'dear, I challenge you to a neutrally moderated debate/discussion of these current issues and anything other topics of your choosing. We will conduct this debate on a Teamspeak or Ventrilo server with a non-participating audience. We will record this debate and then air it on eve-radio. If I were you, I would jump at this chance. And then we can finally end this once and for all.
M'dear, the ball is in your court.
As the challenged party I choose location, and it will be in-game chat with press representatives in attendence ideally.
I suggest tomorrow evening 12 GMT sharp.
Channel details to be arranged by eve-mail.
The uneditted transcript to be made available on this corp forum after the engagement.
I trust this acceptable to you?
JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:54:00 -
[84]
What was that Anna?
Sounded like "blah blah blah, substance free personal attack blah" to me?
JF Public Forum |
Halseth Durn
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:56:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 12/01/2004 02:59:58
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 12/01/2004 02:57:41
Nope. Teamspeak or ventrillo. So much is lost in the cold, flat wold of written language.
Besides I've allready wasted too many days of my life in game chat with you. Never again. We can get it done by voice in 20 mins. And furthermore, it will add so much content to the game by having EVE-radio broadcast your public undressing.
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
Homo Erectus
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:58:00 -
[86]
if you wanted to do a teamspeak debate, i would moderate it with glee. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:58:00 -
[87]
Chat or nothing Halseth. Take it or leave it.
(And if you choose to leave it, I will be happy to continue ripping your fragile credibility to bits for the edification of the watching audience right here Halseth).
JF Public Forum |
Anna Heart
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:59:00 -
[88]
... Jade doesn't want people to know she's a man...
FYI you can't get audio for EVE-Radio from a text log silly.. less you want Doby imitating your lovely man voice (I can see it already *wipes a tear of pure amusement*)
I say AUDIO or Halseth wins by defualt. Cause text is easily manipulated and altered to make anyone's point show as being more powerful. Vocal is much harder. If you don't wanna have people hear your real voice use a filter. either way say it OUT LOUD.
*doesn't think Jade has what it takes*
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
Gafton
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:59:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Gafton on 12/01/2004 03:05:04
Jade, i'm at a loss. Where do i lie? Please point it out to me, cause i'm not in sync with the jade universe.
Second i really didnt want to have to make 50 posts explaining everything. It doesnt do anything except contradict jades posting so then you either believe her or u believe us. Facts are facts. Oberon and Rona approached corporations and asked them if they wanted to join a new alliance w/o jericho. Corporations that wernt online at the time were never asked. If a corp didnt want to join they were asked to leave the chat. This resulted in a majority of nva corps in favor of a new alliance w/o jericho in it. If jade even read halseths original post she'd know why he listed all the corps in the new alliance when some were against it. But then nobody is perfect.
I'll write up a nice long post after this explaining the "other" side's view.
But before that, let me answer jades so important question. The reason why corporations abandoned the charter is because it didnt work. Why follow somthing that was old and non functional. Eve advances and evolves on a weekly basis. You either adapt or get left behind. We adapted and moved on. I suggest you do the same.
Edit: I'd much like a vocal debate than some 20 page text debate. Can explain points much faster and better than from text. But then maybe jade has something to hide.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:59:00 -
[90]
Quote:
My my my. I'm trying to keep my neutral hat on here because I obviously cant know the situation, but I cant help but notice that no one has confronted Jades view of history.
...
You say you can't know the situation. Then you acknowledge that what's presented is Jade's view of history.
Any sane person at this point would realize that continuing could very well be just an exercise in:
Who can lie better?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Stavros
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Posted - 2004.01.12 03:00:00 -
[91]
Quote:
We can get it done by voice in 20 mins.
I can get it done in 2 minutes with a 9mm Beretta and some cheesewire 
Stav
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Anna Heart
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Posted - 2004.01.12 03:01:00 -
[92]
oh just a note
*JADE DODGES HALSETH'S BULLET*
*ANNA PULLS OUT A SECOND GUN FOR BACKUP*
I Demand as a citizen of EVE to have this be vocal so this can finaly be settled.
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 03:03:00 -
[93]
Quote:
... Jade doesn't want people to know she's a man...
Here we go again, its the "we demand to know private information about Jade's out of character personal details again" game.
Of all the people who play Eve, I am required to prove my out of game gender for the amusement of tosspots.
JF Public Forum |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.01.12 03:11:00 -
[94]
nooooo i wanna be teh mod
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 03:14:00 -
[95]
Its chat or nothing Halseth.
JF Public Forum |
Christopher Xen
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Posted - 2004.01.12 03:15:00 -
[96]
MY GOD....HOW IN THE HELL DID THE NVA TOLERATE JADE SO LONG!!!!
You guys must have the patience of Jobe.
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Lady Drakmarr
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Posted - 2004.01.12 03:23:00 -
[97]
Thread has been locked due to the direction that the topic and post were going. This is not a flame war people nor a place to attempt to fuel any fires.
__________________________
Drakmarr Von MacBanyon
Lead Forum Moderator
Benevolent Overlord of the Intergalactic Summit
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Gafton
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 04:39:00 -
[98]
And now for the really really long post.
Quote:
Because JF was not on Oberon/Rona/KIA teamspeak, and because I wasn't "one of the lads" the person lumbered with the blame for the must ineptly led and executed military campaigns in history was ... you guessed it ... me.
Actually the military commanders each took full responceblity for their defeats. I've never seen nor heard of people blamming you for them. How can someone who wasnt even in the same region, nor in the battle take blame for it?
Quote:
Every time the NVA industrial corps vetoed the proposal and made sure it went no-where.
Actually the proposal for a corp tax has been proposed multiple times over the past 6 months. It has been proposed in each and every venal alliance even founded. And each time nothing has happened. The reason why it never happened is because people didnt want to put any effort into it happening. Sadly, majority of the nva proposals went nowhere and you cant blame the industrialist corps for each and every one of their failures.
Quote:
NVA council was pretty much incapable of making decisions that would help the war.
Yup, and it was incapable of making any decision on most accounts. This was due to the charter. It required that every corp vote on issues and discuss them to make sure that everyone had a voice. But this required corps to put effort into the alliance. After time people stopped discussing, and then they stopped voting.
Quote:
I recruited 4 combat-capable PvP corps of good name and high renown who wanted in on the war and membership of NVA so they could fight rats. There were fresh and ready and enthusiastic and represented a real chance to turn the tide.
Ahh yes, the addmitance of the 4 corps that nobody knew about. You recruited 4 corps by yourself into the alliance w/o so much as an actual consenus on what corps felt about it. There was no notice to member corps that you were recruiting members, nor was there any notice that you had found candidates for recruitment. Yes you may have talked with some members ingame about their inclusion and if anyone had any problems with them. However, the majority of the membership ie the ceos never knew they were being admitted nor were asked if they had objections. A very democratic guided decision of course. But then you thought you could run the show better than a council could, but then it wouldnt be democratic would it? And of course you didnt have enough influence to be made empress w/o causing a civil war so you were stuck with us "jokers" making the decisions.
In re to the plut runs:
Quote:
Halseth and the mining corps just werenÆt interested. They preferred to mine for themselves and leave the traders to hang. They were not interested in allowing non-mining corps to have an alternative viable profit centre.
Wonder why that is. Transport millions worth of trade goods, or mine safely in 0.0 space and make your own ships/equipment or sell the minerals in empire space for a profit. You see not everyone is setup to make trade runs to empire. Larger corps also dont hand out a few hundred million to a corpmate they dont really know so they can make a few million proffit, or most probly lose by going through the wrong gate. And if you did give out millions to a member to make a profit, how do you decide who to give it to? If you had top exec members do it, what happens if they dont have any of the indy skills to make the runs? What if they dont have the time to do them? What if you're already setup to mine minerals and make a profit from that? As for non mining corps not having any viable profit solution, what do you think npc farming was for? It didnt require large groups of people, or several hundered million in startup cash. A positive side effect of this was the ships getting better equipment or being able to refine/sell the equipment for more profit.
Quote:
I hired mercenary corps to fight the Foresaken Empire in Geminate to take the pressure of NVA assets at home.
No you hired mercenary corps to help kill the pirates in pure blind to help guard your own plutonium runs. You had to do this because nva forces were concered with protecting venal and the majority of assets there. With biomass, si and jokers becoming ever so numerous in pure blind you had to protect your assets.
Quote:
Again Halseth interfered, accusing me of going against the interests of the council and dealing with ôreformed ratsö for military gain. (I know this is hilarious given his public conversion to respect for pc-rat-hood published on Eve Guardian).
The problem with this was that the mercs were saying they were allied with the nva. This posed a problem for pr.
Quote:
This represented an unacceptable level of influence for Halseth and co, and so they made use of non-jericho-moderator-obtained material from our private corporation forum to construct the laughable
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
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