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Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.06 15:44:00 -
[31]
1. Create a private Courier contract to your self
2. Haul the pastic wrap (which no-one can scan to see whats inside)
3. ???
4. Profit.
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.06 16:02:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 06/06/2007 16:01:40
 Quote:
What are they working om?
for one thing it makes no sense for Concord to pay insurance to a criminal they just destroyed.
Hum that's right about the insurance, but I don't think it change anything. The insurance just means you have to restrict to killing bigger targets, and the problem is that current targets are really small compared to what they could theoretically hold if full.
It's like putting new scratchless paint on a car when it's rusted behind the paint.
The dev are working on making concord attack drones, which means the main ganking method (drones, because they weren't jammed) will not be as effective as they are now. Which means that you'll need more ships to gank something in high sec.
Basically, it achieves the same objective as removing insurance : raising cost for gankers. I just say it's better to see if removing insurance on top of the dron change is necessary or not.
PS : and following my own argumentation, it may also not be enough... I know...
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 16:06:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Alski
1. Create a private Courier contract to your self
2. Haul the pastic wrap (which no-one can scan to see whats inside)
3. ???
4. Profit.
You know what Dev Lickspittle said thar?
Do you think thats related? By which I mean, when they fix it so you can scan inside containers again, do you think you'll be able to see inside plastic wrappers, too?
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Mr DanielXY
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Posted - 2007.06.06 16:12:00 -
[34]
Ok couple Questions/Suggestions:
1. How many freighter ganks were there in high-sec anyways?
1b) How many suicide indy kills / day in high-sec? (if anyone can guess that number ;) )
1c) How many of those on not-afk haulers?
2. If you do the courier mission trick with your freighter and everyone else is doing it...
Wouldnt it be clear for the gankers that everyone with courier mission in cargo is probably transporting something valueable (he did go thru the trouble of issuing a courier contract... why would he if not for the fear of getting ganked?)?
If you fly with cargo that is very cheap it would be advisable to fly it without the trick for everyone to see "Im cheap, no valueable target", to not loose your freighter to guys that think like explained above ;)
3. I guess the best way to secure your cargo would be to... use a second freighter as escort :D They would fly in a gang in looting distance to each other... As soon as the one with the cargo gets popped the other one loots the wreck... thus denying the gankers the loot...
Hmmm ofc they could form a second gang and gank the remaining freighter... but than you could go with 2 freighters as escort :D and so on...
The advantage is clear... as you only need 2 persons the gankers need 15-20...
+ if the choose to gank you a second time the potential profit is halved already since the cargo explodes 2 times thus only 25% of it remaining (statistically)
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.06.06 17:36:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sinder Ohm
What I usually do is put about 3/4 valuable cargo and 1/4 usless junk that takes up little space (the more the merrier) at least 300 items, trust me it takes ages for the person scanning to sift through all that junk. 
Probably the most interesting suggestion anyone has posted in this thread, although it might be considered a borderline exploit as you could be seen as deliberately creating lag.
My suggestions: cheap skillbooks, the less bulky trade goods, salvage components, and (if you're hauling a BPO) a large number of worthless 1 run BPCs that have the same icon (and same name, if from the same blueprint) - people would have to click show info on every one of them to find the BPO. Mixed item types help to ensure that people can't easily guess the nature of the most valuable type of cargo that you're carrying.
The downside of this tactic is that if you overdo it, people are more likely to suspect that you're hiding something valuable, shoot you first and trawl later...
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Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Rod Serling
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Posted - 2007.06.06 17:49:00 -
[36]
I think the best solution would be to add a map feature that lets you avoid specific systems in planning your route. Then it becomes a matter of who can outsmart who, which is, I thought, the point of much of Eve.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:13:00 -
[37]
As the person who owns a blueprint to them I would suggest using a bustard. 
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Necrosmith
Gallente
Excellence In Business Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:51:00 -
[38]
Fly with a scout to look for a group of Domis, and don't haul so much valuable stuff as to make it profitable for a suicide gank.
Best Regards,
--Necro
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"Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both." |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:57:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 06/06/2007 18:56:52
Quote:
I'd suggest choosing a better defended ship or getting an escort when you haul more valuable stuff, or when you haul stuff period.
I would suggest thinking about your answers more thouroughly in the future. At some point you are using the most defended ship being a frieghter, and those still have no defense. An escort does NOthing for you in high sec, because if they see you get engaged and retaliate they simply get concorded as well.
CCP seems to no be understanding fully what is going on in their game right now. Concord is pointless they mean nothing and the supposed penalty they are ment to inflict is meaningless. People are being rewarded for intentionally dying, which is the most backwards arse broken mechanic exploit ever to exist in a game of any sort. Meanwhile the people trying to live and play the game properly are not only losing cargo worth billions but if you are flying a freighter the ship alone was hundreds of millions?
I am sorry if this came across harsh but seriously the Dev's seem to be completely clueless on this new phenonemon of suicide ganking and how helpless everyone is to prevent it. the only real answer has been dont fly anything worth anything.... it isnt just frieghter, evne a faction fitted ship is worth ganking if you got enough friends willing to jump in a caracal.
Risk vs reward is beyond broken with suicide ganking. The reward is always hand picked, huge and certain the risk is nearly ZERO. suicide ganking is so risk free that it make ratting in a dread look suicidal....
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JaffaCake
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Posted - 2007.06.06 19:07:00 -
[40]
I think EVERYONE should give freighter pilots a hand and TARGET them whenever they see them in local [1]. This way, they can always be sure that someone, somewhere is taking an interest in the contents of their cargohold and that they need to stay vigilant. 
[1] Yes, even shuttles!
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Coutaux
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:54:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
I would suggest thinking about your answers more thouroughly in the future. At some point you are using the most defended ship being a frieghter, and those still have no defense. An escort does NOthing for you in high sec, because if they see you get engaged and retaliate they simply get concorded as well.
That there is the key problem to the dev's idea of "just fly with an escort".
For flying with an escort to work, they need to allow gang members to retaliate against a target that agresses anyone in the group without becoming concorded.
Combine this with a bunch of support cruisers in your gang with shield / armor reps and the problem will be solved.
Solo freighters will still have to worry, but a viable means of responding to threat will exist as well.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:31:00 -
[42]
If the cargo is not to large, fast warping ships ftw.
to scan you, they have to lock you, if they dont have time to get a scan off then they are unlikely to shoot.
This means no afk. You have to use warp to zero for every system. The most dangerous part is undocking in lag, as it is possible to get scanned.
Otherwise, tanked with a focus on resists and lots of armor and shields. Transport ships do nicely, but put enough value in something, and it will be profitable to kill even if you lose 10 battleships to concord. Even in tanked cargo ships, warp to zero when hauling the high value stuff. Warp to zero dramaticly reduces your risk, even in a slow warping ship.
Risk is never eliminated, but it can be "managed"
Quote:
Originally by: CCP kieron
If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs. |
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:53:00 -
[43]
I don't know if this would do any good at all, but maybe try an escort in a Myrmidon with an Armor Warfare - Passive Defense module running and 5 heavy armor bots in the drone bay.
The gang mod raises armor resists, the bots run on the freighter until it goes into warp in case somebody tries to gank it.
And if it gets ganked anyway, the Myrm could just tractor the cans that drop and run like hell on MWD until the owner comes along to reclaim it.
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SAVE EANM FROM THE NERFBAT! |
SamtheDog
Singularity.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 03:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gealbhan
The most valuable thing I ever carried from one place to another was a T2 implant - value 63mil, one time. That's it.
Carried it in an Ibis because lets face it, who scans an Ibis!?
I do. I scan EVERY ship that I can kill. You would not believe how many fools move 50 implants in a NOOB ship. Two days ago I got a dread bpc (you can find it on contract now) from a noob ship as well as a hurricane bp.
Noob ships are slow, fast to target & nearly insta-pop.... Even a shuttle gave me 2 Gist B-type hardners. The funny part is they are on autopilot and keep moving with their pods.
Nothing will save you. Trust me...
Sammy
"Never underestimate greed or stupidity...you can always see it emerge in the end" |
SamtheDog
Singularity.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 03:43:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
I agree with the escort bit, no gank squad with half a brain is going to waste time on cargo they wont be able to recover
I'd pop a freighter just to ruin a guys day. You would not believe the hysterics we get into after we popped x billion isk. Sometimes reading local can be worth the isk. Btw, wiht domi prices in jita near 50M isk & insurance @ 66.5M. The total loss of a domi is just under 5M fully fitted. Very good bang for the buck.
Sammy
"Never underestimate greed or stupidity...you can always see it emerge in the end" |
Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
Blind Beavers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 04:05:00 -
[46]
Quote:
That there is the key problem to the dev's idea of "just fly with an escort".
For flying with an escort to work, they need to allow gang members to retaliate against a target that agresses anyone in the group without becoming concorded.
Actually, anyone could help after they have agressed, escort or no. Once a person agresses unlawfully in high sec they get a global criminal flag and can be shot by anyone for 15 minuets.
Quote:
I am sorry if this came across harsh but seriously the Dev's seem to be completely clueless on this new phenonemon of suicide ganking and how helpless everyone is to prevent it. the only real answer has been dont fly anything worth anything.... it isnt just frieghter, evne a faction fitted ship is worth ganking if you got enough friends willing to jump in a caracal.
That "phenonemon" has been happening, what, 4 years now? I think they know about it. If they change it at all it will be a huge sell out to a majority of the game.
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Spider Iarus
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Posted - 2007.06.07 06:55:00 -
[47]
Allow me to provide a small suggestion for how to handle gate-gankers.
Don't bother with an escort; the ganker is going to die anyway.
What you want is someone to save the important thing - your loot. That means keeping it away from his hauler partner(s) until you can get back to it.
And for that purpose may I suggest a ganged destroyer with a tractor beam 'firing' but without a lock? Clicks your wreck, drags it around until the cavalry comes. Ain't too hard to keep out of range of an industrial.
Cost: 1mil for the destroyer, pittance for the beam
Or there's the old 'fill the hold with pieces of ammo, low wieght mods, and various lag-causing fun' trick. By the time he's resolved lag from opening you up you're sitting in Jita having a smoke and a beer.
Think outside the box, wait for CCP to cripple this which - frankly - they will. Or get your own Domi...
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Trishan
Minmatar
Green Men Incorporated
The Threshold
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Posted - 2007.06.07 07:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: FarScape III
And HOW are they sapposed to protect the loot when the gankers buddy is getting the loot andNOT red to the escort?
It doesn't even matter.
Assuming they could shoot the looter, one of the gankers buddies would just ransom the wreck, and blow it up if anyone gets near.
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Martosh Toma
Gallente
Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2007.06.07 07:54:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Martosh Toma on 07/06/2007 07:55:16
Why do people even jump their value(ble) transporter (whatever shiptype) into a mob of multible BS?
And anyone that would answer with, "Because I did not know", I say use a scout.
Other than that:
Take a peek at the gank-equasion as was sugested before (Make sure then need to spend more isk to gank then can be obtained from your wreck)(shield extenders, armor plates and passive resist mods help most. generaly active tanks fare less well in ganks).
Hiding gems in the dirt (a large amount of low level, low value loot to increase their responce time)
Tracktoring your own loot away will not save your ship, but it will reduce profitebility for the gankers on average. This might also help if you try to take on whomever tries to take your loot.
I admit that once you start to transport a load that exceeds the gank-eqasion things get complicated fast. you suddenly need a scout, perhaps someone to tracktor your wreck, and maybe even an escort for your wreck. but as long as you at least pay attenion to the gank-equasion you will have less trouble transporting your stuff.
Of course using autopilot is asking for trouble.
once you got scanned (or think you might have been) dock somewhere asap and take a break.
If you regularly haul valueble goods between systems:
Try to find some alternate routes and defenetely avoid flying at the same times.
Make sure you have safe spots along the trip (especially in systems with no stations) and bring a cloak.
prepare a decoy ship in advance( or prepare some way to unload your (importand?) cargo) and get the gankers to pop your (nearly?) empty ship).
Oh and If you cannot save your stuff, destroy it (if you can)
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Detrol
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:06:00 -
[50]
There are indeed a number of things that you can do to avoid getting ganked in your hauler/freighter.
a) turn on sound, scanners make a very easy to recognize sound. If you hear it, just assume it was used on you with a passive targeter, don't jump through and dock.
b) for now, you can use containers and the courier wrap. The contents doesn't show up and neither those the container or the wrap. Put some junk in your cargo hold so you don't look like an 'empty hauler using containers' and keep on flying. This seems to be getting fixed so enjoy this while it lasts.
c) when the containers become vulnerable to scanners, always, always have a container filled with lots of stuff and junk in your cargo hold. It's just an extra item in your cargo but when you're scanned, it will show a lot of results on the guy who's scanning ya. If you're lucky he doesn't spot the valuable stuff immediatly or just thinks you're carrying junk.
d) use a scout to detect gank squads. Plus, the scout can do something extra. I've read a very interesting theory on these forums regarding ship alignment on these forums and as far as I could test it, it seems to be true: when you're cloaked, your ship looks aligned to something on your screen, but for the server it actually isn't. The moment you warp to the next gate, you decloak and start aligning and accelerating on your screen. For the server, you're insta-aligned and just start accelerating. If your scout carries a sensor booster and a webber, he locks and webs you the moment you decloak and you almost instawarp in your hauler/freighter. I don't fly freighters so I couldn't test this but with a hauler my alt warped, much, much faster (the moment i engaged the web, the hauler instawarped while still aligning on my alt's screen)
Then another remark regarding the escort not able to fire back. This is not true, as soon as someone performs a criminal act, ANYONE can shoot the attacker. Concord will leave you alone. I do agree that it won't help much as concord is already wtfbbqpwning the attacker so your 1 percent extra damage won't help.
There has been a change on sisi at a moment too where Concord will also jam the drones that are being used by the domi's. This would stop the damage done to the hauler the moment Concord shows up. Is this still planned? It would make freighter ganking a lot more costly this way as you need to be able to pop it before concord shows up. This requires a lot more battleships.
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Bon Hedus
Amarr
O.E.C
Legionnaire Services Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:24:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gner Dechast
How do you know - the SOUND. That's about the only way I know of. The scanners make peculiar sound that you should easily identify, althou you're left wondering were you or someone else scanned. At any rate it should give you a warning about something going on.
Eve has SOUND?
I have been playing for 3 years with out sound due to the BSOD that I get when sound is enabled
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Heavy Lag Spike II belonging to EvE Cluster Node #0815 hits your Connection, wrecking your latency to 998ms |
Jaggeh
Furious Angels
Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:31:00 -
[52]
tested with corpmate
1 Iteron IV (10k m3 space)
1000 trit in singles
1000 bookmarks
real cargo worth roughly 4bn
By the time he had scanned me and his sheet updated i was 2 jumps away.
Travel To Eve fest from ireland |
The Ender
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jaggeh
tested with corpmate
1 Iteron IV (10k m3 space)
1000 trit in singles
1000 bookmarks
real cargo worth roughly 4bn
By the time he had scanned me and his sheet updated i was 2 jumps away.
Lag in Jita is about to get 10 times as bad now you have posted this :(
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Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.06.07 13:55:00 -
[54]
As the number of items are specificly added to lag out the person scanning you, the 'solution' you mention is an exploit. I'm 99.9% sure a GM or Dev once said that as well.
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StinkFinger
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:42:00 -
[55]
If you're flying a freighter in empire and are worried about it getting ganked, then fly with 3-4 buddies in logistics ships. As you uncloak and are about to warp to the next gate, have your buddies target and rep/shield boost you. Should have enough rep cycles to thwart any gank attempts. If not, get some more friends in logistics ships.
Considering the changes coming up in the next patch, logistics will be working significantly better then now and imo will be a decent counter to empire freighter ganks.
Originally by: Tuxford
Needy needy people
I'll try to make some stuff up
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Mrsticks
Minmatar
RNCGM Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:53:00 -
[56]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Barbaro55a
Ask nicely in local "Is anyone scanning me? cos I have a cargo hold full of Mega, and don't want to loose it"
Then you should be fine, People are generally nice in Eve.
They may even offer to help you haul some of it.
9 points for nice try at least... 
I'd suggest choosing a better defended ship or getting an escort when you haul more valuable stuff, or when you haul stuff period.
Transports are suposed to be Harder right.... how about giving us one that can stand up to a pounding and say Shoot back even... Yall say you want us to PVP in eve but when we say we would like to yall tell us to Fly a Battleship and take 40 trips...
Long Live TEXAS! Texans join the Texas channel in game plz. |
Sqalevon
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:13:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Sqalevon on 07/06/2007 15:20:51
You can conceal your cargo by putting it in cargo containers.
They will show up on the scanner, but you cant see what is in it.
I'm confident enough to say, no pirate is willing to risk his ship without knowing what he will get in return.
And now that I've read your post.
I have yet to discover a way to know if someone is cargo scanning me.
I know that with a passive targeter you might hear a sound, but thats all.
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StinkFinger
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sqalevon
Edited by: Sqalevon on 07/06/2007 15:20:51
You can conceal your cargo by putting it in cargo containers.
They will show up on the scanner, but you cant see what is in it.
I'm confident enough to say, no pirate is willing to risk his ship without knowing what he will get in return.
And now that I've read your post.
I have yet to discover a way to know if someone is cargo scanning me.
I know that with a passive targeter you might hear a sound, but thats all.
WRONG.
It does show up on scanner.
If you don't know what you're talking about, keep quiet.
Thanks.
Originally by: Tuxford
Needy needy people
I'll try to make some stuff up
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Sqalevon
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:36:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Sqalevon on 07/06/2007 15:41:37
I just tested with it.
When a probe with a small secure cargo container is scanned with a standard cargo scanner.
The Small secure cargo container doesn't even show up in the results window.
Also the Giant secure cargo containers in my iteron mark 5 did not show up, while some modules I had outside the container did.
I was indeed incorrect.
I thought you did see the containers but couldnt see their content.
But the truth is, you don't see the containers at all.
This leads me to believe that mr. Stinkfinger wants to conceal this fact for his own purposes ( scanning cargo of unsuspecting victims ).
Sqa out.
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Petstretsi Zuborov
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:46:00 -
[60]
I find it pretty disheartening that we're talking about tightening hi-sec safety while these same protections affect us all by allowing macro farmers to do their jobs easier.
Hi-sec needs a security downgrade so the player base can police themselves.
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