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Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:16:00 - [1] Hi! This isnt a whining tread. Its more about getting tips, help and ideas how to perform better.... Let me throw out some stuff thats a fact in game... 1. Cargo scans doesnt show in logs, and that has been confirmed by devs thats how it is supose to be. 2. From a post earlier a dev said he will install a patch so cargo will show when in secure containers. So i ask myself. How can i get an idea if some people are wanting my cargo? Ok, here is what i found out. I can choose to auto target, that way when people lock me, i lock them back and can expect being cargo scanned. This works fine for haulers, as they have slots. For a freighter on the other hand, this does not work. So basicly. You can get a clue being scanned and your cargo is in danger when in a hauler. Cool! But, when in a freighter. How on earth can you protect yourself and cargo? As there are no way to know, or even get a hint, that you have been scanned? Sure, you can see on overview that someone is locking you. Yeah i know. Allways good to pay atttention to overview. But, when in a crowded system, and overview is as long as a bad year. Your not able to view all ships / pilots on your overview. I have removed all ingame stuff on overview, but even then, i cant allways see all ships / pilots.. So i ask you people out there. How do you know if your being scanned? Is there some settings in overview im missing? Is there a way to make ppl locking you pop on top of overview? OR are we just flying blindfull in our ships?
Barbaro55a Caldari Os Lobos Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:22:00 - [2] Ask nicely in local "Is anyone scanning me? cos I have a cargo hold full of Mega, and don't want to loose it" Then you should be fine, People are generally nice in Eve. They may even offer to help you haul some of it. .......................................... We come in peace - My sig and your sig would make cute baby sigs.
Gner Dechast Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:23:00 - [3] Well, any half decent perp won't be scanning you without passive scanner, so no - on most cases you can't even see anyone locking you. How do you know - the SOUND. That's about the only way I know of. The scanners make peculiar sound that you should easily identify, althou you're left wondering were you or someone else scanned. At any rate it should give you a warning about something going on. How to protect? Don't haul expensive cargo AFK or in T1 industrials. With extremely valuable cargo's, use forward scout even in highsec (look out for multiple caracals or domis or .... you get the idea). Try to calculate the ganking cost on suicide attacks and try to run cargo in ships and cargo volumes that (along with explosion losses) are very unlikely to be profitable. That's all I can think of for now.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Barbaro55a Ask nicely in local "Is anyone scanning me? cos I have a cargo hold full of Mega, and don't want to loose it" Then you should be fine, People are generally nice in Eve. They may even offer to help you haul some of it. 9 points for nice try at least... I'd suggest choosing a better defended ship or getting an escort when you haul more valuable stuff, or when you haul stuff period. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

Reilly Jax Amarr Freespace Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:27:00 - [5] Hi there :) i heard someone mention a game mechanic called courier missions. you can create one and assign it to yourself. the contents of the courier package are not scannable. they aer not secure containers, thus they will not be scannable in kali 2.0. add to the fact that you can have one courier container ina hauler with 750000m3 in it. not a whole bunch of smaller cans. it hides your true content even more.. is there 50km3 of trit in there? or is there 50billion in faction mods? no way to know. courier missions assigned to yourself. ive not tried that method, but if i had a freighter i woulndt do it any other way. have a nice day :D
Reilly Jax Amarr Freespace Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:29:00 - [6] mr wrangler.. can you alaborate on my above post? if in fact that mechanic will be in place in 2.0?
Beor0d Congregatio	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:35:00 - [7] Edited by: Beor0d on 06/06/2007 10:34:26 Why should i have an escort when the attackers will be shot by concord anyways? I saw some videos where freighter got insta popped by some Battleships, so no escort can help you if you and the enemy gang is dead some seconds later. Please tell me the aspects i am missing :) _______________________ Mining makes mad
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:37:00 - [8] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Barbaro55a Ask nicely in local "Is anyone scanning me? cos I have a cargo hold full of Mega, and don't want to loose it" Then you should be fine, People are generally nice in Eve. They may even offer to help you haul some of it. 9 points for nice try at least... I'd suggest choosing a better defended ship or getting an escort when you haul more valuable stuff, or when you haul stuff period. Getting an escort is pointless as your loss will only be bigger if your ganked. As concorde will kill your escorte if they start shooting at your agressors. Only good is the tip abowe on using a scout to look out for group of domis.. Even though your not auto pilot hauling, your freighter can be ganked. I didnt knew about the sound...good tip. Guess ill play with sound on when hauling :) About the mission thing. I read that the mission package can be scanned.
Caletha Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:58:00 - [9] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Barbaro55a Ask nicely in local "Is anyone scanning me? cos I have a cargo hold full of Mega, and don't want to loose it" Then you should be fine, People are generally nice in Eve. They may even offer to help you haul some of it. 9 points for nice try at least... I'd suggest choosing a better defended ship or getting an escort when you haul more valuable stuff, or when you haul stuff period. Yes because insta-popping haulers can be defended so well in empire. I mean your escort can take out the people that are gatecamping, and ofcourse shield-transfer, and. Oh wait... Having blown a few haulers in empire myself now I can conclude that theres nothing you can do about it. Its all about calculations, if the person you want to blow up is in an BR or something with high resists + hp, just bring more BS to kill it. Since it pops instantly, your escort cant do anything other then watch pretty explosions. Or perhaps a pop-shot at the hauler stealing the can, but you'd have to be quick and hope that hauler isnt stabbed up. Its all a numbers game, in Jita we saw a hauler with about 200m in its cargo, I attacked it, and only shot off its shields before I pop'd (itty 5 with all extenders). But seeing it was 200m of loot, we just got another BS to shoot it as well and we ran off with 100m in loot (half blew up). The 2 BS didnt cost more then 20m to insure + fit. End result, 60m profit. I guess its all fair in love and war. But dont hide behind the "get an escort or tougher ship" theory, because lets face it, it doesnt work like that.
Gner Dechast Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:14:00 - [10] Edited by: Gner Dechast on 06/06/2007 11:13:53 Originally by: Caletha Reborn Its all a numbers game, in Jita we saw a hauler with about 200m in its cargo, I attacked it, and only shot off its shields before I pop'd (itty 5 with all extenders). But seeing it was 200m of loot, we just got another BS to shoot it as well and we ran off with 100m in loot (half blew up). The 2 BS didnt cost more then 20m to insure + fit. End result, 60m profit. I guess its all fair in love and war. But dont hide behind the "get an escort or tougher ship" theory, because lets face it, it doesnt work like that. This is exactly what I meant by "trying to calculate the cost of ganking...." Tougher hauler requires more gear to pop, hence adding more to the gank costs. If your cargo is of less value than the gank cost or slightly higher, odds are that you don't get engaged since there are plenty of better targets around. If you have something mindbogglingly expensive, don't use haulers at all, rather use cloaking recon ships and move it with them (unless size restrictions prohibit - then I don't really know how you should do it). In the end, there is always some risk, no matter how much effort you put into this or any other issue - and that's the way it should be, IMO. Edit: I can't spell...
djenghis jan Amarr Debiloff's Vanguard	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:17:00 - [11] Maybe you can try making the list on the scanner very long by inluding a can of junk filled with all sorts of items from consumer electronics to bookmarks and whatnot. This could then mask your true content, i don't know how long the list is with cargo scans?
Larkonis Trassler Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:20:00 - [12] Hey guys... here's a thought! The escort is there to SCOUT for you and if you do get ganked to PROTECT YOUR WRECK. Start thinking outside the box. You can never 100% protect yourself from being ganked. But you can stop people making away with your loots in the standby hauler. For those of you indy bears whining about your profit margins being slashed... Welcome to the world of Risk Vs Reward. By taking an escort you are lowering your risk and hence your reward. ------------ Request for Privateer Sticky! Keep the forums clean!
Di Jiensai Gallente Domination.	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:21:00 - [13] Well, cutting my own throat here, but there is one way. You need a Tech2 transport (the small, fast one) Fit a MWD, and best cloak. Then you need to do some testing. The idea is this: After jumping into a System stay cloaked, click the out-gate on your overview so it will be marked in space. Rotate camera looking for it, and then align (doubble click close to it in space) wait half a second, activate MWD, wait a split second, activate cloak. Deactivate mwd, have finger on the key to deactivate cloak, and mouse over the warp to 0 button. As soon as the MWD finishes its 10 second cycle, your max speed will drop to normal, but your actual speed will still be higher, but quickly droping. But, as long as your actual speed is higher than max, and you are allready aligned, you warp instantly when clicking warp to 0. I mentioned testing above. With this i mean, you need to setup your ship, so that it doesnt accelerate too slow, to reach max speed+ aligning, in the time of one mwd cycle. But, as The cloak reduces max speed, you need to be faster than base max speed, with MWD and cloak active. What worked for me, is a Viator with one Inertia Stab, and one expanded cargohold (possibly 2 expanders work too) If Done correctly, you will be visible for a split second, after coming out of cloak, when you activate MWD and your cloak, and then again a split second, 10 seconds later (one MWD burst) before you switch off your cloak and go to warp. you cannot be cought doing this, and cant even be cargo scanned, as you are at no point visible long enough to even target you. I strongly suggest to practice this maneauver, several times, as the timing must be quite exact.
Di Jiensai Gallente Domination.	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:27:00 - [14] Originally by: djenghis jan Maybe you can try making the list on the scanner very long by inluding a can of junk filled with all sorts of items from consumer electronics to bookmarks and whatnot. This could then mask your true content, i don't know how long the list is with cargo scans? This will work, at least on slow computers, mine for example freezes completly for 5-10 seconds, if someone has 100+ items in hold.
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler For those of you indy bears whining about your profit margins being slashed... Welcome to the world of Risk Vs Reward. By taking an escort you are lowering your risk and hence your reward. WOOOOOOT....Finaly i got it. One of things i hate most in these ganking subjects are throwing all burdens and waights of actions on to ganked ppl. Burst of wisdom on every corner regarding this amaze me. PPl trying to find the tips to do their part. The are willing to do lot more in order to acomplish some goals of their. And yet, others still manage to write one dimensional opinions such as "welcome to EVE, game of risk v Reward......but only for some" me, myself and I ------>
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:39:00 - [16] What I usually do is put about 3/4 valuable cargo and 1/4 usless junk that takes up little space (the more the merrier) at least 300 items, trust me it takes ages for the person scanning to sift through all that junk. Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:47:00 - [17] Hum another method : set up a courier mission with a high collateral price, wait in ambush for the courier to pass by, ambush and kill him, and use the collateral to buy the stuff you needed at the destination point.
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.06.06 12:01:00 - [18] The most valuable thing I ever carried from one place to another was a T2 implant - value 63mil, one time. That's it. Carried it in an Ibis because lets face it, who scans an Ibis!? "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
Caletha Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.06 12:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Gealbhan The most valuable thing I ever carried from one place to another was a T2 implant - value 63mil, one time. That's it. Carried it in an Ibis because lets face it, who scans an Ibis!? I once used an Velator to transport roughly 17b worth of BPO's for that very same reason, who the hell scans an Velator Wait, now everyone does (not that it matters for me anymore, the bpo's are safely in their end-station now)
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.06 12:16:00 - [20] Yes, trying to transport stuff in "who suspects that ship" can be painful. It works until someone DOES scan you and kill you with a suicide kestrel. Personally I use for AFK-transporting heavily tanked ships. Transport ships can be pretty good there, especially the impel. The one of my transport alt has 7k hitpoints and resistances between 79-91%. It can be suicedeganked, but you will need 5+ battleships to do that which does not happen that often.
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.06.06 12:34:00 - [21] Want to protect your cargo? Get a ship capable of it.
Maya Rkell Third Grade Ergonomics	Posted - 2007.06.06 12:56:00 - [22] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 06/06/2007 12:56:13 Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Hum another method : set up a courier mission with a high collateral price, wait in ambush for the courier to pass by, ambush and kill him, and use the collateral to buy the stuff you needed at the destination point. Perfectly legit unless you're using a conquerable station / outpost as the end point (so ppl can't dock, and can't complete it). //Maya
Captain Agemman Minmatar Legio Ultra	Posted - 2007.06.06 13:35:00 - [23] Originally by: Happster 2. From a post earlier a dev said he will install a patch so cargo will show when in secure containers. Oh how I hope that with that patch I can target and cargo scan my assets window so I can look inside my own containers. That is the point that bugs me. I can't remotely look inside my own containers, others can.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 06/06/2007 12:56:13 Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Hum another method : set up a courier mission with a high collateral price, wait in ambush for the courier to pass by, ambush and kill him, and use the collateral to buy the stuff you needed at the destination point. Perfectly legit unless you're using a conquerable station / outpost as the end point (so ppl can't dock, and can't complete it). Sounds like a fair restriction. Well, even if the guy makes it though, you didn't lose anything, so it's fine.
Kehmor Caldari The Movement	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:18:00 - [25] when 20 odd dominixes start flashing red you can be pretty sure they've cargoscanned your freightor. The Movement is recruiting!
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:28:00 - [26] Ok, I have an idea. Granted this will not keep you from getting ganked, but will keep your attackers from stealing anything from your freighter and thus making it useless to gank it. 1. Bring along an escort in a destroyer outfitted with sensor boosters and tractor beams + an AB/MWD 2. If/when you get ganked, have the destroyer lock onto and tractor your wreck, and immediately drag the wreck away from the area. Hopefully this should keep the attackers from easily retrieving the contents with haulers/freighters. Is this any good? Not much consolation over losing one's freighter, but if the attackers aren't guaranteed to score the loot it might make them think twice... erm...GOONSWARM IS EBIL.
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:54:00 - [27] Turn on your sound. Damn I'm good. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:57:00 - [28] Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 06/06/2007 14:59:25 Originally by: Happster Hi! This isnt a whining tread. Its more about getting tips, help and ideas how to perform better.... Let me throw out some stuff thats a fact in game... 1. Cargo scans doesnt show in logs, and that has been confirmed by devs thats how it is supose to be. 2. From a post earlier a dev said he will install a patch so cargo will show when in secure containers. So i ask myself. How can i get an idea if some people are wanting my cargo? Ok, here is what i found out. I can choose to auto target, that way when people lock me, i lock them back and can expect being cargo scanned. This works fine for haulers, as they have slots. For a freighter on the other hand, this does not work. So basicly. You can get a clue being scanned and your cargo is in danger when in a hauler. Cool! But, when in a freighter. How on earth can you protect yourself and cargo? As there are no way to know, or even get a hint, that you have been scanned? Sure, you can see on overview that someone is locking you. Yeah i know. Allways good to pay atttention to overview. But, when in a crowded system, and overview is as long as a bad year. Your not able to view all ships / pilots on your overview. I have removed all ingame stuff on overview, but even then, i cant allways see all ships / pilots.. So i ask you people out there. How do you know if your being scanned? Is there some settings in overview im missing? Is there a way to make ppl locking you pop on top of overview? OR are we just flying blindfull in our ships? You dont...and if you fly a billion isk ship alone without escort, you asking for trouble. Originally by: Jiekon/CCP If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:41:00 - [29] I agree with the escort bit, no gank squad with half a brain is going to waste time on cargo they wont be able to recover Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 06/06/2007 15:37:05 Once the transport is dead, the problem isn't that the escort can't beat the guy that ganked. The problem is that the ganker's transport ship is looting the wreck, and can't be attacked until he does... and when he does, it's too late. Before the transport is dead, the problem is that the only way to protect a ship is to carry less than it's worth in assurance for the ganker, which seems to be around 20 million isk. If you raise the ship defense, it may go up to 260 million isk (freighter). So should transporting more than 260 million isk should from now on become impossible ? or should some kind of defense be possible ? Even with the cheapest mineral (velspar) does 260 million fill the entire cargo ? If not, something is clearly strange here... I've got nothing against ganking if active steps can defend yourself from it. Which currently, isn't true. However, the changes to concord may change the balance of ganking... so... maybe it's solved, maybe it needs more tweaking. At least the devs are working on it. What are they working om? for one thing it makes no sense for Concord to pay insurance to a criminal they just destroyed. A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :)

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