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63 years ago today 6 th of june

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Tarquin Tarquinius Gallente Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:17:00 - [31] How the crap did I let this slip my mind? ----- 0.0 System Renaming?
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:35:00 - [32] Why not talk about the spanish american war? That's the one that affected me and yet so little is told about it... Nations tend to remember the wars where they looked good... IMHO
DgO4 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.07 08:47:00 - [33] Will never forget them. We are the pilgrims, Master, We will always go a little farther.....
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Shameless Avenger Why not talk about the spanish american war? That's the one that affected me and yet so little is told about it... Nations tend to remember the wars where they looked good... IMHO No way. We remember Vietnam & the Korean war as well... And even though most view the Iraq war as a failure (Almost all wars that don't end swiftly are considered failures while they are raging), time can only tell if it serves one of it's purposes of bringing the Middle East out of it's extremism funk, and into the 21st century, a century where a religion does not rule over a people through insane dictators & clerics. War is not about looking good, it's about making the world a better place for the future. War does not always work either, but you have to remember all those that bled & died in them. I think you'd want some respect if you got your head blown off serving your country, and you would not appreciate snide remarks from little punks who don't have a clue... I'm sure every country around the world celebrates the wars they won more than the one's they lost, but I think they all give remembrance, as they should... Building the homestead
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:56:00 - [35] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Shameless Avenger Why not talk about the spanish american war? That's the one that affected me and yet so little is told about it... Nations tend to remember the wars where they looked good... IMHO No way. We remember Vietnam & the Korean war as well... And even though most view the Iraq war as a failure (Almost all wars that don't end swiftly are considered failures while they are raging), time can only tell if it serves one of it's purposes of bringing the Middle East out of it's extremism funk, and into the 21st century, a century where a religion does not rule over a people through insane dictators & clerics. War is not about looking good, it's about making the world a better place for the future. War does not always work either, but you have to remember all those that bled & died in them. I think you'd want some respect if you got your head blown off serving your country, and you would not appreciate snide remarks from little punks who don't have a clue... I'm sure every country around the world celebrates the wars they won more than the one's they lost, but I think they all give remembrance, as they should... Oh and the good old USA is not ruled by a Christian fundamentalism that sees Islam as evil, that must protect Israel at all costs as that is where JC will bring it, is beholden to a Christian right in which many believe 9/11 was God's payback for homesexuals? You've swallowed to much apple pie. War generally is not about making the world a better place, what stupidity. It is about conquering, death, destabilization, corporate interests. I don't understand the pride issue in remembering. All wars are stupid, and a sad indictment on our species. I don't respect anyone who fought, it is a terrible horror they had and do go through.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:34:00 - [36] Edited by: DarkMatter on 07/06/2007 11:52:30 Quote: I don't understand the pride issue in remembering. All wars are stupid, and a sad indictment on our species. I don't respect anyone who fought, it is a terrible horror they had and do go through. Most likely you would not be alive if someone did not fight in a war somewhere... All species fight dumbass, and yes, fighting the good fight does make society better in the long run IMO. Quote: Oh and the good old USA is not ruled by a Christian fundamentalism that sees Islam as evil, that must protect Israel at all costs as that is where JC will bring it, is beholden to a Christian right in which many believe 9/11 was God's payback for homesexuals? You've swallowed to much apple pie. Most of my country believes in democracy & freedom, no matter what your own political stance is. Those who we are currently fighting are the most intolerant people on the planet, if you're an infidel, you must eventually die. I know who I want to win, do you? It's like asking, who better to win WWII, the Axis or Allies? People who murdered millions because of faith, or people who fought for basic human liberties... Most same people will choose liberty, only those blinded by faith choose to be lead by a dictator of some perverted faith... Building the homestead
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.07 14:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Locus Bey Oh and the good old USA is not ruled by a Christian fundamentalism that sees Islam as evil, that must protect Israel at all costs as that is where JC will bring it, is beholden to a Christian right in which many believe 9/11 was God's payback for homesexuals? You've swallowed to much apple pie. Yes, because the "God Hates**s" guy speaks for all America. Originally by:** Locus Bey War generally is not about making the world a better place, what stupidity. It is about conquering, death, destabilization, corporate interests. I don't understand the pride issue in remembering. All wars are stupid, and a sad indictment on our species. I don't respect anyone who fought, it is a terrible horror they had and do go through. You think you are better than everyone else? You think you're not human? How's the weather up there on your high horse? Ever read Churchill's 'A Gathering Storm'? It was about how the European elite thought after WWI. They thought that if they, meaning the UK, France and the other aligned Europeans, would just disarm themselves that Germany wouldn't attack them. I mean, they had no right to attack Germany, or tell Germany that they couldn't build a massive army. Baah, hide your heads in the sand, like always. No matter how nice and altruistic you are Locus Bey, I guarantee you that a group of people want to kill you and your way of life. It will always be that way, until we stop being human.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:17:00 - [38] Dudes, the Spanish American War was an invasion. Any soldier that die there didn't die defending his country but rather invading / conquering another. US invaded Puerto Rico, plain and simple. Puertoricans never caused any harm to the US and yet they were forced to live under military rule for decades. And people still wonder why irakis don't want the US there. Look at the history of US wars beyond the ones advertised on the history channel.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:25:00 - [39] Originally by: DarkMatter Most of my country believes in democracy & freedom, no matter what your personal political affiliation is. Those who we are currently fighting are the most intolerant people on the planet (the extremists, not all Muslims obviously), if you're an infidel, you must eventually die. I know who I want to prevail, do you? It's like asking, who better to win WWII, the Axis or Allies? People who murdered millions because of a warped faith, or people who fought for basic human liberties... Most sane people will choose liberty, only those blinded by faith choose to be lead by a dictator of some perverted faith... So you should pay homage to those who eradicated a perverted dictator 63 years ago IMO. Especially if you're living in Europe and you enjoy your freedoms... I may not agree with many people in France today on certain topics, but I will sure as hell honor & thank the French soldiers who fought and died to help make my country what it is today. They most certainly have my respect! And I understand the French had other motives than simply to liberate us from the British, and that they were primarily serving their own interests, I understand that. It does not change the fact of what those men did for my country so long ago. Eh, I agree with this guy, though I probably disagree a lot on current politics Current stuff is a disagreement on the best tactics to beat extremists, and let's not argue about that here. I remember and respect those who fought, men and women, all nationalities. It was a tragedy, but WW2 had to be won by the allies so that freedom could prevail.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:34:00 - [40] Edited by: DarkMatter on 07/06/2007 16:43:13 Edited by: DarkMatter on 07/06/2007 16:34:57 Originally by: Shameless Avenger Dudes, the Spanish American War was an invasion. Any soldier that die there didn't die defending his country but rather invading / conquering another. US invaded Puerto Rico, plain and simple. Puertoricans never caused any harm to the US and yet they were forced to live under military rule for decades. And people still wonder why irakis don't want the US there. Look at the history of US wars beyond the ones advertised on the history channel. Correction: The Islamist Extremists do not want us there, over 60% of the Iraqi people want us to stay (from the last poll I heard talked about) until it's safe for them to live a normal life... Hell, even in Iran. The last poll about America was 64% in favor of having positive relations with us, that pollster was jailed by the Iranian government. Would you rather have the Japan of today, or one similar to North Korea if we let them continue on with an Emperor and their extreme views towards anyone who was not like them? All countries fight wars with their own interests in the forefront, but I challenge you to find another country over time that has also tried to better the countries they were involved with. In recent history, America has NEVER set out to conquer anyone. Spreading democracy is not conquering, it's giving future generations of those countries the ability to lead a decent life, and not under the thumb of some emperor or dictator. Then they are free to like us or hate us. I don't care how many people out there hate our country. As long as they are doing it out of free will, in a civilized manner, and not by using suicide bombs, and the country they live in allows them to question their own government, it's fine by me... No country is perfect, but I honestly can't see how so many think we are evil for wanting humans to live better lives, and given the opportunity to accomplish whatever they want to accomplish within the basic laws of humanity without an oppressive government controlling their lives... Yes we but in, but so will every other superpower that comes after us... Lets hope they believe in freedom, and not oppression... I watch those old war movies, and I even respect the German men who fought and died... They were just as brave as we were back then... And I even respect the men who faught for Iraq during the start of that war, the ones fighting for their country, the ones who are now police officers, trying to make a better life for their children... The ones I do not respect are the one blowing up women and children because they don't want Iraq to be a free nation... Building the homestead

Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:47:00 - [41] All countries fight wars with their own interests in the forefront, but I challenge you to find another country over time that has also tried to better the countries they were involved with. Actually, most countries and empires try to better places they take over... Romans, Arabs, Mongols, British did a lot of good things. They also had some slight problems with enslaving millions of Gauls, forced conversions, burning down everything and machine gunning peasants, but they did bring improvements too. Lots of people well afterwards thought they were a good thing. Admittedly, some people who thought they were not a good thing ended up nailed to other things or in tiny little bits, but them's the breaks. Anyway, it's never just black and white.
Father Weebles Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:54:00 - [42] Edited by: Father Weebles on 07/06/2007 16:58:14 All human actions are guided by selfish wants or needs. Since when does our country care about the other countries' citizens? Do you think we invaded Iraq just to topple **** *** so Iraqis could have nice Saturday picnics? Hell no. That's just a disguise. I'm not an omg conspiracy oil 9/11 fanatic. The point is we didn't invade Iraq to free it's citizens. No politician would risk going to war for another people unless they were under a similar dictator like ** or Stalin (*** was a bad dictator but nowhere, nowhere near **** or Stalin). We invaded for some alterior motive that benefits us. Alterior motive? Most likely oil. It's like giving some hobo money. You don't give it away out of the kindness of your heart, you likely give it away to feel some sort of satisfaction for helping someone in need. And I know we didn't invade Iraq just to make ourselves feel good.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:02:00 - [43] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 07/06/2007 17:01:44 Originally by: Father Weebles Edited by: Father Weebles on 07/06/2007 16:58:14 All human actions are guided by selfish wants or needs. Since when does our country care about the other countries' citizens? Do you think we invaded Iraq just to topple **** *** so Iraqis could have nice Saturday picnics? Hell no. That's just a disguise. I'm not an omg conspiracy oil 9/11 fanatic. The point is we didn't invade Iraq to free it's citizens. No politician would risk going to war for another people unless they were under a similar dictator like ** or Stalin (*** was a bad dictator but nowhere, nowhere near **** or Stalin). We invaded for some alterior motive that benefits us. Alterior motive? Most likely oil. It's like giving some hobo money. You don't give it away out of the kindness of your heart, you likely give it away to feel some sort of satisfaction for helping someone in need. And I know we didn't invade Iraq just to make ourselves feel good. Well a safer world is safer for everyone, as long as what you do to make it safer actually works. Taking care of the homeless means that if you become homeless you get taken care of. (NB giving money to beggars isn't a good way of doing this.) It also means you're not going to be murdered for your shoes by a crazy homeless person. Life isn't a zero sum game...
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:03:00 - [44] Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 07/06/2007 17:04:41 Originally by: DarkMatter ... over 60% of the Iraqi people want us to stay ... Arguable... Originally by: DarkMatter Hell, even in Iran. ... 64% in favor ... Plain nuts. Now tell me they also want to become the 51th state.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:05:00 - [45] Quote: That's just a disguise Not so... We are not there 100% for oil. We are not ther 100% to liberate Iraq. If you believe either one of those, you're taking an extreme position and refusing to be realistic. Like a poster above said, it's not all black & white. In any event, yes, plz remember all those who died fighting for a worthy cause, from all countries of the world. Because of them we live on, without them, who knows where we would be... Who knows, one day we may all be fighting not for our country, but for our very survival as a species... Building the homestead
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Shameless Avenger Originally by: DarkMatter ... over 60% of the Iraqi people want us to stay ... Arguable... Originally by: DarkMatter Hell, even in Iran. ... 64% in favor ... Plain nuts. I'll try to find the article for you. Building the homestead
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:07:00 - [47] Y'know I'm as liberal as they come, just about, but the fact people are here arguing over current wars and saying people were bad for fighting in WW2 is going to get this locked... and that makes me sick. Yay internets! I would say "have a little respect" but that translates to "flame me up the wazoo"
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:07:00 - [48] Originally by: DarkMatter I'll try to find the article for you. You are trying to prove something with an article from the Internet? How old you think I am?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:08:00 - [49] Edited by: DarkMatter on 07/06/2007 17:21:22 Edited by: DarkMatter on 07/06/2007 17:06:48 Originally by: Shameless Avenger Originally by: DarkMatter I'll try to find the article for you. You are trying to prove something with an article from the Internet? How old you think I am? Here That's an old one, and not the specific one I was talking about. I'm not the best googler... Building the homestead
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:37:00 - [50] Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 07/06/2007 17:38:08 Originally by: DarkMatter Here Iran Institute for Democracy with HQ in Washington, DC The Tarrance Group with HQ in Virginia and from the article: "Commissioned by the Iran Institute for Democracy, the survey was conducted among N=758 adults age 16+ (voting age) in Iran, from May 26 through June 4, 2005" It's more than 2 years old data. And then it says: "and interviews were conducted via telephone from a call center in the United States..." And this Sobhani dude, isn't this the iranian-american guy running for senator on the US? but then... Originally by: DarkMatter That's an old one, and not the specific one I was talking about. I'm not the best googler... Oh, ok then

DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:45:00 - [51] Edited by: DarkMatter on 07/06/2007 17:45:03 Originally by: Shameless Avenger Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 07/06/2007 17:38:08 Originally by: DarkMatter Here Iran Institute for Democracy with HQ in Washington, DC The Tarrance Group with HQ in Virginia and from the article: "Commissioned by the Iran Institute for Democracy, the survey was conducted among N=758 adults age 16+ (voting age) in Iran, from May 26 through June 4, 2005" It's more than 2 years old data. And then it says: "and interviews were conducted via telephone from a call center in the United States..." And this Sobhani dude, isn't this the iranian-american guy running for senator on the US? but then... Originally by: DarkMatter That's an old one, and not the specific one I was talking about. I'm not the best googler... Oh, ok then Like I said, I'm not the best googler, lol... I saw the news story last week, but can't seem to find it... In any event, it's not important to the OP, and you would not believe it anyways, you have your mind made up already... Building the homestead
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:46:00 - [52] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 07/06/2007 17:45:16 I'm prepared to believe the article, but it only asks certain questions and phrased in a certain way. It is also two years old. Lots of people were pretty optimistic back then Probably if you asked "do you want invaded if it will bring democracy" 90% would say "no" and 10% would give a crash course in swearing in Farsi. "Do you think invasion would bring democracy" would probably give similar results. "Do you want American help in strengthening democracy in Iran" would be a really interesting question. I also note Egypt and Pakistan probably want a democracy, and that Palestine is a functioning democracy. And, yeah, thread has kinda gone off topic...
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:51:00 - [53] Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 07/06/2007 17:50:48 That right, the thread has kinda gone off topic... It was doomed to happen, this is an international forum. Let's just leave it as is and go back to some good old fashion pew pew.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:52:00 - [54] Edited by: DarkMatter on 07/06/2007 17:53:22 Ok found it, Poll Why that 5 year old poll was in a news story I heard on CNN last week, I dunno. The news story made it sound like it was a recent poll, my bad... Building the homestead
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Shameless Avenger Now tell me they also want to become the 51th state. I'd rather annex Canada. They have wood, and their milk comes in bags.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:59:00 - [56] Originally by: RedFall Originally by: Shameless Avenger Now tell me they also want to become the 51th state. I'd rather annex Canada. They have wood, and their milk comes in bags. Your nation has tried before, and failed. I foresee similar results this time around.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:00:00 - [57] Originally by: RedFall Originally by: Shameless Avenger Now tell me they also want to become the 51th state. I'd rather annex Canada. They have wood, and their milk comes in bags. Plus they have a lot of great places to fish, and a vast majority of the women in Alberta a freaking hot! Building the homestead
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:01:00 - [58] Quote: I'd rather annex Canada. They have wood, and their milk comes in bags. How does that work? I mean, with the cows, and the mooing, and... it all sounds quite horrible ><
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:04:00 - [59] Edited by: RedFall on 07/06/2007 18:02:44 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: RedFall Originally by: Shameless Avenger Now tell me they also want to become the 51th state. I'd rather annex Canada. They have wood, and their milk comes in bags. Your nation has tried before, and failed. I foresee similar results this time around. Yes, I do remember my history. Tough fighters up there, our two nations are cut from the same cloth. And I do love Alaska, I will move there one day.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:10:00 - [60] Honestly, I think the days of major nations conquering one another is over... The world is more united & connected these days, and just would not allow that to happen... If the US actually tried to conquer another nation, take its land, resources and enslave it's people, I would imagine all of Eurpoe, Russia and China would combine forces to stop us... Building the homestead



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