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Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:33:00 - [121] Originally by: DarkMatter There is nothing but criticism of the USA, no matter who is the President, no matter what we do... Yep. It's because the vast majority of the rest of the world likes you. The rest of the world cares. Most of the world watches US tv, follows US culture, knows people in the US. I know it's hard being the one with power and making a lot of the decisions. Most criticism is just trying to be constructive and to help. You're never going to be without criticism. I know there's something honest and genuine in the US character that takes criticism hard, but I'm afraid you'll have to take it and get on with making decisions anyway. The US is not doing a bad job, all things considered, at all. Quote: I'm honestly ready for it to be someone else's turn to police the world because the UN sucks and no one else wants their troops in harms way. Then we can be one of the hypocritical nations, sit back and just b!tch about everything... I admit the ROE for UN troops seem to suck, but that can be changed. There are a lot of police actions where the UN is involved and it does to some extent work. Quote: This is a time when fighting is required, and not many nations want to do it, because in these days war is not politically correct. Yes I respect the UK, AUS & Poland for helping, props to them, we are greatful. But those countries are ready to bail, and will do so in the near future. Tell the suicide bombers how they are not politically correct, and they will just slice your head off, they don't give a flying ***... I'm from the UK. People have bombed us and blown us up for a long time. It never changed our way of life. We just made some bad jokes about it, had some tea and lived on. People will always attack democracies. Their main goal is to upset people and provoke a reaction. Killing thousands is on a larger scale and is utterly horrifying, but that doesn't matter to them. What they want is to gain support and see their enemy explode with anger and grief. A careful, considered reaction is what they hate most. It's a victory. As well, remember "revenge is best served cold". It's nothing to do with being "politically correct". I'm "politically correct", and I'm still quite happy to see the bad people put away for life or shot dead. I just want to see the world improve, rather than the old cycle of war and rise and fall of civilizations. The world has* improved. Diseases have been eradicated, life expectancy has shot up, and most old people say the world is better today. That wasn't achieved just by war, though war to preserve liberty is necessary sometimes. It's not about fighting being "politically correct". It's about doing the right thing to get the job done. Fighting means non-involved people will die, and people will watch someone they know die, get angry and start fighting too. So fighting isn't always the right thing for the situation. Sometimes it is. It's about chosing the lesser of two evils. Personally I think we would have been better staying in Afghanistan, hard, rebuilding and eradicating the ****** crop. Saving cash and people and the will to fight for a better opportunity... but that's just me. Anyway... I'm amazed this hasn't been locked yet, and kinda glad.
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:42:00 - [122] Edited by: RedFall on 08/06/2007 15:44:11 Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: I think we should arm both sides with massive amounts of weapons and let them kill each other off, and then take their oil and turn the desert into a resort. I actually want those people to have a real life. I believe there can be democracy in a Muslim nation, I truly do. Maybe I'm stupid, and it's just not possible... Democracy is not a good thing, never has been. Democracy voted the Chancellor into power in Germany. Democracy voted Ahmadinejad in power. My point: In democracies, the rulers are a direct representation of the citizens. So, how Ahmadinejad is, is pretty much how most Iranians are. If the citizens of a nation are total insane douche bags, guess what...
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:44:00 - [123] Originally by: Locus Bey I'm most impressed by how you are avoiding answering to all the coups, arms/biological/nuclear supply, and backing of those you now villify. I guess if you did, you might have to admit that you have stoked the fires of fundamentalism, and now it's biting you on the bum. The difference between the rest of the world and you is we know you do it. The sad thing is you can't withdraw from international conflict, your economy depends upon it. The other sad thing is you don't recognize your own fundamentalism. The US is this close to tipping over into full blown extremism. The triggers are many to. Rest of the world does it too... even UK and France have an arms industry. And it was the UK that set up Iraq, though it was based on a former Ottoman administrative district I think. Let's not villify the US for something everyone does. I think the US is still a long way from tyranny. I also think many of the US liberals I've come in contact with (not here, I mean generally) are just as nuts as the conservatives I mean, with just the same gaps in knowledge and understanding of the world outside Northern America.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:46:00 - [124] Originally by: RedFall Democracy is not a good thing, never has been. Democracy voted the Chancellor into power in Germany. Democracy voted Ahmadinejad in power. "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried." ~ Winston Churchill
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:50:00 - [125] You see, we can agree on some things... that's good. IMHO, what we need to get rid of is the oil dependency. Oil have caused many wars already and it's giving too much power to countries that are not ready for it.
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:50:00 - [126] Edited by: RedFall on 08/06/2007 15:51:36 Originally by: Dr Paithos Originally by: RedFall Democracy is not a good thing, never has been. Democracy voted the Chancellor into power in Germany. Democracy voted Ahmadinejad in power. "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried." ~ Winston Churchill If you misunderstand me, I am more in favor of Republics than Democracies. There is a huge difference. Democracy is a word that is thrown around these days and few people know what they are really talking about. For the record: I am a capito-anarchist. I vote Libertarian.
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:52:00 - [127] Originally by: Shameless Avenger You see, we can agree on some things... that's good. IMHO, what we need to get rid of is the oil dependency. Oil have caused many wars already and it's giving too much power to countries that are not ready for it. It's the major oil companies who are doing the most to ween us from oil (like investing in alternative fuels research). Oil companies all realize that the oil will run out one day and they still want to be in business after it does.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:53:00 - [128] Originally by: RedFall My point: In democracies, the rulers are a direct representation of the citizens. So, how Ahmadinejad is, is pretty much how most Iranians are. If the citizens of a nation are total insane douche bags, guess what... Well, then they have to learn to deal with the consequences, without being able to blame it on the dictator, and blame doing nothing on fear for their own lives. Besides, that guy has said a lot of crazy things, but so do a lot of politicians. I'm not endorsing the particular crazy things he's said btw.
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:54:00 - [129] Originally by: Dr Paithos Originally by: RedFall My point: In democracies, the rulers are a direct representation of the citizens. So, how Ahmadinejad is, is pretty much how most Iranians are. If the citizens of a nation are total insane douche bags, guess what... Well, then they have to learn to deal with the consequences, without being able to blame it on the dictator, and blame doing nothing on fear for their own lives. Besides, that guy has said a lot of crazy things, but so do a lot of politicians. I'm not endorsing the particular crazy things he's said btw. Well in these days it's easier to say that it's just the ruler who is an insance maniac than it is to say an entire country is filled with fanatics. It's not politically correct.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:59:00 - [130] Originally by: RedFall Originally by: Shameless Avenger You see, we can agree on some things... that's good. IMHO, what we need to get rid of is the oil dependency. Oil have caused many wars already and it's giving too much power to countries that are not ready for it. It's the major oil companies who are doing the most to ween us from oil (like investing in alternative fuels research). Oil companies all realize that the oil will run out one day and they still want to be in business after it does. I don't believe that. They are prolonging their ability to make profit from oil. I'm a Republican, and voted for Bush. But one thing I hate about him is he's the typical oil man... And yes, that's part of the reason we are in Iraq, as oil is one of our main interests in the region, but not the sole reason we are ther. I blame our government for allowing the oil companies to stagnate the progression away from oil. However, if it's not oil, there will always be something else to fight over... IMO, there is no way a Republican wins in 2008, so it will be very interesting to see how this plays out. I just hope in the time that Iraq has left with Bush in office, their government makes some real progress... Building the homestead

Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:03:00 - [131] I also hope the war ends soon, while all my friends and family fighting there are still in one piece.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:04:00 - [132] Originally by: RedFall Well in these days it's easier to say that it's just the ruler who is an insance maniac than it is to say an entire country is filled with fanatics. It's not politically correct. Sooo... what evidence have you got for this? There's already a study linked above that shows otherwise... As far as I know there are far more fanatics in Saudi Arabia and Northern Pakistan... Iran is traditionally moderate on a lot of things. Claiming a majority of them are fanatics is pretty far-fetched. Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:06:00 - [133] Originally by: Shameless Avenger I also hope the war ends soon, while all my friends and family fighting there are still in one piece. I hope things turn around, they don't look like they will, but we can all hope. And I certainly hope your friends and family return safely. Building the homestead
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:07:00 - [134] Originally by: Dr Paithos Originally by: RedFall Well in these days it's easier to say that it's just the ruler who is an insance maniac than it is to say an entire country is filled with fanatics. It's not politically correct. Sooo... what evidence have you got for this? There's already a study linked above that shows otherwise... As far as I know there are far more fanatics in Saudi Arabia and Northern Pakistan... Iran is traditionally moderate on a lot of things. Claiming a majority of them are fanatics is pretty far-fetched. How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:09:00 - [135] Edited by: DarkMatter on 08/06/2007 16:18:02 Originally by: Dr Paithos Originally by: RedFall Well in these days it's easier to say that it's just the ruler who is an insance maniac than it is to say an entire country is filled with fanatics. It's not politically correct. Sooo... what evidence have you got for this? There's already a study linked above that shows otherwise... As far as I know there are far more fanatics in Saudi Arabia and Northern Pakistan... Iran is traditionally moderate on a lot of things. Claiming a majority of them are fanatics is pretty far-fetched. Yeah, Iran is very moderate. Their current President was an anti-US vote I think. They still mostly hate the US government, but they do want to be more than just a dictatorship... And they seem to be more open to our kind of lifestyle, and not set against killing us because of our free society. The women there certainly do not want to be just cattle, and they speak out about it. So that is encouraging... Eventhough Pakistan is supposed to be an ally, those people are very fanatical, more so than Iran... It's a tough situation all around. The belief in religion is so strong, it does turn people into sheep (even here in the US), and they just lose humanity in their quest to become immortal when they die instead of just living life as a decent human being. It's so silly IMO. Building the homestead
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:12:00 - [136] Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side. I just found my sig! Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:34:00 - [137] Originally by: DarkMatter I think he's just the typical USA basher. Someone posts something about trying to honor the US fighting men, and because of current events, someone else uses it as an opportunity to take a dig at us... It's so typical... It's the same syndrome as the people posting anti Bob sentiments whenever a Bob thread pops up... I never said anything about the USA, you paranoid little man. The US was not the only nation to fight in World War II. Put down your goddamn Call of Duty games and read a ******* book.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:46:00 - [138] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: DarkMatter I think he's just the typical USA basher. Someone posts something about trying to honor the US fighting men, and because of current events, someone else uses it as an opportunity to take a dig at us... It's so typical... It's the same syndrome as the people posting anti Bob sentiments whenever a Bob thread pops up... I never said anything about the USA, you paranoid little man. The US was not the only nation to fight in World War II. Put down your goddamn Call of Duty games and read a ******* book. The OP showed a vid about American Soldiers. Your first response was to pick apart a decision made by an American, saying it was the wrong thing to do... You're the one who turned this thread into anything but a simple remembrance thread... Your intentions were quite obvious IMO... Building the homestead
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:04:00 - [139] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: DarkMatter I think he's just the typical USA basher. Someone posts something about trying to honor the US fighting men, and because of current events, someone else uses it as an opportunity to take a dig at us... It's so typical... It's the same syndrome as the people posting anti Bob sentiments whenever a Bob thread pops up... I never said anything about the USA, you paranoid little man. The US was not the only nation to fight in World War II. Put down your goddamn Call of Duty games and read a ***** book. The OP showed a vid about American Soldiers. Your first response was to pick apart a decision made by an American, saying it was the wrong thing to do... You're the one who turned this thread into anything but a simple remembrance thread... Your intentions were quite obvious IMO... Lol, the Americans did not make the decision about D-Day you ignorant git, Eisenhower was the supreme commander of the Allied invasion, and happened to be American. The Canadian's, English, Free French, Polish, ANZAC and other Commonwealth nations all took part in the planning. This is why Americans are not well liked by other nations, your heads are so far up your own asses, you see nothing but your own bull**. Here's a little nugget to get you through the day, friend; the world contains more than your good old US of A.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:18:00 - [140] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: DarkMatter I think he's just the typical USA basher. Someone posts something about trying to honor the US fighting men, and because of current events, someone else uses it as an opportunity to take a dig at us... It's so typical... It's the same syndrome as the people posting anti Bob sentiments whenever a Bob thread pops up... I never said anything about the USA, you paranoid little man. The US was not the only nation to fight in World War II. Put down your goddamn Call of Duty games and read a ***** book. The OP showed a vid about American Soldiers. Your first response was to pick apart a decision made by an American, saying it was the wrong thing to do... You're the one who turned this thread into anything but a simple remembrance thread... Your intentions were quite obvious IMO... Lol, the Americans did not make the decision about D-Day you ignorant git, Eisenhower was the supreme commander of the Allied invasion, and happened to be American. The Canadian's, English, Free French, Polish, ANZAC and other Commonwealth nations all took part in the planning. This is why Americans are not well liked by other nations, your heads are so far up your own asses, you see nothing but your own bull**. Here's a little nugget to get you through the day, friend; the world contains more than your good old US of A. Dude, I understand he did not act alone. But I knew what your intentions were... And the guy on top takes the credit and the blame... I would have simply passed by this thread if it wasn't for you & Redfall. Maybe I'm wrong about your poke at "The Allies", but I don't believe I am... Building the homestead

RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:31:00 - [141] Originally by: DarkMatter I would have simply passed by this thread if it wasn't for you & Redfall. Instead of just commenting on the vid, you wanted to start a fight... I did nothing. And Derovius is just a bitter Canadian, he always starts fights.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:38:00 - [142] Quote: Maybe I'm wrong about your poke at "The Allies", but I don't believe I am... It was a dig to blame the US for casuing more casualties than required and you know it. Instead of just commenting on the vid, you wanted to start a fight... You are ***** tool, DarkMatter. I said that more Allied soldiers died on the beaches of Normandy due to poor High Command decisions, especially on the Canadian beaches. Learn to read, ffs, before you try making decisions on what I wanted to say. Quote:** I did nothing. And Derovius is just a bitter Canadian, he always starts fights. I'm not bitter, just angry that my bags of milk got slashed by the neighbourhood penguins.
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:41:00 - [143] Originally by: Derovius Vaden I'm not bitter, just angry that my bags of milk got slashed by the neighbourhood penguins. Cheer up old chap.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:46:00 - [144] Quote: You are ******* tool, DarkMatter. I said that more Allied soldiers died on the beaches of Normandy due to poor High Command decisions, especially on the Canadian beaches. Learn to read, ffs, before you try making decisions on what I wanted to say. Well then I was wrong, sorry. My GF is Canadian, and she instigates stuff. (Mostly about my hockey team though...) I guess I misunderstood what you meant... Building the homestead
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:13:00 - [145] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Wendat Huron With a capable leader the **s might have actually won, be thankful the guy was a tactical moron. WWII was won and lost on the eastern front, sure D-Day was a glorious moment of sacrifice and great determination and all that but it's been 63 years and its time to move on. I am insulted by the last part of your statement; no one should ever put themselves in a position to willfully forget the sacrifices others made on their behalf. Not 1/10/100 years after the fact do you have the right to tell someone that their death was all welland good, but no longer important. All I can say to you is that I'm sorry that you take things that others bled and died for granted. I hope in time you mature enough to give the wonderful life you live greater pause and respect. In plain english D-Day pales in comparison to the sacrifices made on the eastern front but you with your US-centric view doesn't give a crap about dead russians. Neither are my people and scores of people have died for more or less good reasons since and will again in the future. Getting hung up on the hero culture is one of the ingredients needed to breed people willing to go off to kill another people. I choose not to be that easily led into the meatgrinder. Originally by:** RedFall Originally by: Wendat Huron With a capable leader the **s might have actually won, be thankful the guy was a tactical moron. WWII was won and lost on the eastern front, sure D-Day was a glorious moment of sacrifice and great determination and all that but it's been 63 years and its time to move on. Yes well with a capable leader the Lichtensteinians could conquer all of Europe. In the real world, Germany couldn't have been able to stand up against the military-industrial complex of America (I'm not saying Canada and the other countries didn't pull their own weight, I'm just saying that it was America's economy). I do believe that pound for pound the German's had better line infantry (except Marines, but they were in the Pacific) and tank commanders, but America was just zerg rushing Europe. Lets please not forget that WWII did not end until Japan surrendered. Europeans seem to have a Euro-centric view of WWII. As a former Marine myself, I know my Pacific theatre history well. Difference being Germany had a shot, whereas Lichtenstein to my knowledge never had an oppertunity to build an empire. Had Germany upheld their pact with USSR while invading England it'd made US involvement that much harder with no friendly bases close to mainland Europe, also without ***ing Enigma the submarine war probably wouldn't have been won either. Cutting the two remaining major players apart it's questionable if the US would want to or dare come to aid the Soviets once the germans had stabilized Britain and getting the US used to having to deal with only one overseas european trade partner from there on.
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:23:00 - [146] Originally by: Wendat Huron Difference being Germany had a shot, whereas Lichtenstein to my knowledge never had an oppertunity to build an empire. Had Germany upheld their pact with USSR while invading England it'd made US involvement that much harder with no friendly bases close to mainland Europe, also without ***ing Enigma the submarine war probably wouldn't have been won either. Cutting the two remaining major players apart it's questionable if the US would want to or dare come to aid the Soviets once the germans had stabilized Britain and getting the US used to having to deal with only one overseas european trade partner from there on. Are you kidding me? Lichenstein can whoop some fugging ass. Don't ** them off or you will be sorry.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:33:00 - [147] Quote: In plain english D-Day pales in comparison to the sacrifices made on the eastern front but you with your US-centric view doesn't give a crap about dead russians. Neither are my people and scores of people have died for more or less good reasons since and will again in the future. Getting hung up on the hero culture is one of the ingredients needed to breed people willing to go off to kill another people. I choose not to be that easily led into the meatgrinder. Thats because the Soviets were not active in the planning on D-Day, and the deaths/losses on the Eastern Front was due to their own foolish tactics. Stalin did not listen to his allies, all we did was supply him, he decided how to play ball.
Captain Hudson Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:34:00 - [148] Originally by: RedFall Originally by: Wendat Huron Difference being Germany had a shot, whereas Lichtenstein to my knowledge never had an oppertunity to build an empire. Had Germany upheld their pact with USSR while invading England it'd made US involvement that much harder with no friendly bases close to mainland Europe, also without ***ing Enigma the submarine war probably wouldn't have been won either. Cutting the two remaining major players apart it's questionable if the US would want to or dare come to aid the Soviets once the germans had stabilized Britain and getting the US used to having to deal with only one overseas european trade partner from there on. Are you kidding me? Lichenstein can whoop some fugging ass. Don't them off or you will be sorry. Originally by:** SPQRMocton We would love to have a bunch of teenage pimple boys with no real pvp ability to fil our corpse yards
Dangerously Cheesey Anqara Expeditions The OSS	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:51:00 - [149] Originally by: Derovius Vaden D-Day may have been the largest invasion in history, but it was very poorly conceived. More people died than needed to, especially on the Canadian beaches. If the Allied High Command pushed through Italy instead of Normandy, they'd have reached Berlin sooner, overstepped alot of the fortifications and ended the war sooner. Please. You could write a book filled with nothing but the ways in which ****** lost the war for the Axis.
Dangerously Cheesey Anqara Expeditions The OSS	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:53:00 - [150] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Quote: In plain english D-Day pales in comparison to the sacrifices made on the eastern front but you with your US-centric view doesn't give a crap about dead russians. Neither are my people and scores of people have died for more or less good reasons since and will again in the future. Getting hung up on the hero culture is one of the ingredients needed to breed people willing to go off to kill another people. I choose not to be that easily led into the meatgrinder. Thats because the Soviets were not active in the planning on D-Day, and the deaths/losses on the Eastern Front was due to their own foolish tactics. Stalin did not listen to his allies, all we did was supply him, he decided how to play ball. Actually many, many of the deaths on the eastern front were Russian civilians who starved/froze to death as a direct result of the German invasion.



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