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Player Owned Customs Office: Your feedback on the past month

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Esunisen Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous 61	Posted - 2012.01.09 19:02:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: 1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? Taxes are too expensive, but oh well, they always are, right ? Anyway, having to pay a fixed tax on a variable price item sounds wrong. CCP Omen wrote: 2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? No idea. Probably significant in null sec since you can break your enemy's PI supply, or at least slow it down. CCP Omen wrote: 3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Small (tiny) corps can't destroy Interbus CO. I tried on Sisi with a Rattlesnake with heavy T2 drones + Manticore with torps + 5 Med T2 drones from Orca, gave up after like 2 hours, shield was at like 40%... CCP Omen wrote: 4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? More revelant for big corps since they can put a POCO and have a tax free import/export for themselves. For people like me running their PI+POS alone, we got doomed. I stopped all PI and gonna shutdown my POS. CCP Omen wrote: 5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? 90% chances i'm gonna quit the game since my gameplay is ruined.
ILeone School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 8	Posted - 2012.01.09 19:32:00 - [92] - Quote Posted this elsewhere, but its probably more relevant here : We are a small corp and have so far put up 8 POCO's in 0.4 systems the oldest being around 4 weeks old, the newest 2 weeks. The TOTAL income from all POCO's over that period of time has been 75m isk for an investment of close to 1 billion isk taking into account the time to take down the Interbus co's, ammo, replacing 2 destroyed co's and getting ganked while killing the Interbus co's. All in all, its a pretty terrible return on investment. Two suggestions : - Some method of judging your income before you take down a CO. - Some method of attracting players to your planet. And to the poster above, our 3 man corp takes down CO's in around an 90 mins with 3 x T3 battlecruisers with t2 blasters.
Jas Dor Republic University Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2012.01.09 19:36:00 - [93] - Quote pussnheels wrote: CCP Omen wrote: Hello and a happy new year! We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE. Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere. 1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? 2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? 3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? 4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? 5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? Best regards CCP Omen I remember when CCP published the first blog about POCO you asked for feedback you had a 90 page or so thread feedback where the overwhelming majority of people spoke out against the idea but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means If this is CCP first step into forcing high sec dwellers into nulsec , , don't bother just nerf whole high sec to death now effect will be the same only second will have faster results end result is you CCP losing customers I's just like to chime in on this. Low Sec mechanics actively discourage large scale player cooperation. Players who wish to develop the area cannot project force without sec hits eventually shutting them down (that and gate gun mechanics favor the aggressor not the defender). Pirate gangs don't generally care about their sec status, but also normally can't organize a large enough number of people to claim an area. The result of this is that you have the barbarians come through a blow up the POCOs looking for fights - and nobody rebuilds them. Eventually most low sec will have no COs and no POCO's making development there not worth it. The benefits of POCO's go to players in WH and 0.0 space. I suppose organized infrastructure in low sec might arise from POCOs. I expect in the long term industry in low sec only makes sense as an exception, not a rule.
Jack Dant The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre 347	Posted - 2012.01.09 20:38:00 - [94] - Quote Jas Dor wrote: I's just like to chime in on this. Low Sec mechanics actively discourage large scale player cooperation. Players who wish to develop the area cannot project force without sec hits eventually shutting them down (that and gate gun mechanics favor the aggressor not the defender). Pirate gangs don't generally care about their sec status, but also normally can't organize a large enough number of people to claim an area. The result of this is that you have the barbarians come through a blow up the POCOs looking for fights - and nobody rebuilds them. Eventually most low sec will have no COs and no POCO's making development there not worth it. Are you speaking from experience or theorycrafting? Because everywhere I've looked, it was the pirates putting up the POCOs and defending them. The last POCO I anchored has already been reinforced twice, giving us 2b worth of kills from attackers. It's the best bait ship 100 mil can buy. There's a risk your scenario will become true. But the only thing it takes to avoid it is a better ROI on POCOs. If they paid for themselves in a month, instead of three, more people would risk deploying and trying to defend them. PS. You may want to check the link in my sig if sec status mechanics annoy you. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Esunisen Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous 61	Posted - 2012.01.10 13:26:00 - [95] - Quote ILeone wrote: And to the poster above, our 3 man corp takes down CO's in around an 90 mins with 3 x T3 battlecruisers with t2 blasters. I can't do this, i don't have skills for any T2 large gun. Can't fly a thanatos either.
Jarnis McPieksu Aliastra Gallente Federation 192	Posted - 2012.01.10 13:53:00 - [96] - Quote Esunisen wrote: ILeone wrote: And to the poster above, our 3 man corp takes down CO's in around an 90 mins with 3 x T3 battlecruisers with t2 blasters. I can't do this, i don't have skills for any T2 large gun. Can't fly a thanatos either. It is true that Tech 2 guns and carriers have better DPS than Tech 1 noob thingys. You do know that you can fix this with the skill queue and some time, right?
Denidil The Graduates RAZOR Alliance 254	Posted - 2012.01.10 15:26:00 - [97] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: 1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? 2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? 3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? 4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? 5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? 1) yes, the entire player owned system is crap 2) i don't know - i refused to engage in PI after the new system came out 3) absolutely not, not even a chance. the big corps and alliances just come in and clear them out if they want 4) it's become a serious inflation pressure on the cost of tech 2 items 5) no, because POCOs are not awesome. Bored in 0.0?-á reset all standings.
pmchem GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 190	Posted - 2012.01.10 16:12:00 - [98] - Quote Jack Dant wrote: Jarnis McPieksu wrote: Indeed. In the lowsec systems that I use (for other purposes) all POCOs are still Interbus. This is a downer for me as I could do some small time PI on the side but not at 17% tax rate (so I do it at my highsec "home" system under CONCORD 10% tax). The Interbus COs are a big deterrent to deploying your own POCOs, especially in busy lowsec (where other people would notice them). Look at Amamake, where all COs are still Interbus. The same applies to other hotspots. Yeah, the Interbus COs need to have their HP drastically reduced or just be outright removed by CCP. I mention them as my "something broken" much earlier in this thread. They were a solution for a problem which no longer exists (ensuring continued PI supply and market stability when POCOs were first introduced). Even one jump from goonswarm's capital, there are still dozens of Interbus COs remaining unshot because of the sheer effort needed to POCO-ize a constellation.
Esunisen Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous 61	Posted - 2012.01.10 17:53:00 - [99] - Quote Jarnis McPieksu wrote: It is true that Tech 2 guns and carriers have better DPS than Tech 1 noob thingys. You do know that you can fix this with the skill queue and some time, right? I don't even have gunnery V, but i can use heavy T2 drones, i always use drone boats. DPS isn't though to down the CO shield. Jarnis McPieksu wrote: If POCOs were any more fragile than they are now, they would be constantly shot at for fun by bored pirates. Structures have to have enough HP to make them unfeasible to take down with just 1-2 pilots. True for POCO, but Interbus CO are too painfull to kill
Jarnis McPieksu Aliastra Gallente Federation 193	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:25:00 - [100] - Quote Hmm, I do agree that it may be that Interbus thingies could be more fragile while player deployed POCOs could take bit more beating?

Jack Dant The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre 352	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:45:00 - [101] - Quote Jarnis McPieksu wrote: Hmm, I do agree that it may be that Interbus thingies could be more fragile while player deployed POCOs could take bit more beating? Player ones are close to perfect. More HP only raises the amount of people you need to shoot or rep them, and that hurts small corp involvement. If anything, I would support moving some of the shield HP to armor. Easier to reinforce, easier to repair, harder to kill. As I said at the start of the thread, if you increase the command center launch capacity, you could just delete the Interbus COs. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1168	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:14:00 - [102] - Quote Esunisen wrote: Jarnis McPieksu wrote: It is true that Tech 2 guns and carriers have better DPS than Tech 1 noob thingys. You do know that you can fix this with the skill queue and some time, right? I don't even have gunnery V, but i can use heavy T2 drones, i always use drone boats. DPS isn't enough to down the CO shield. A structure bashing domi costs ~80m, is insurable for ~40, and puts out ~900dps between it's rack of lasers and its drones. T1 (low meta) guns. Once you do your bashing, you can refit it into a repdomi, with 6 large shield reps running cap stably to help repair it (which takes forever with well more than 3 people, enjoy that) Also, 3 people isn't a small corp, that's a me-and-my-alts-sized corp.
Raven Ether Republic University Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2012.01.11 11:30:00 - [103] - Quote The input may not contain HTML. FFS can't reply
Matalino 3	Posted - 2012.01.11 23:13:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: 1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? I have not seen any significant problems. CCP Omen wrote: 2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? I have not seen any change with my experience. However, I expect that others might have seen an increase. CCP Omen wrote: 3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? The POCO in the low-sec constellation where I live have all been established by a 600-700 player alliance. From my experience, POCO's appear to be another cash cow for large alliances. There might be some new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations, but I have not seen any in my corner of low-sec. CCP Omen wrote: 4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? There is a slight increase in relevance as corporations establish and defend passive income from POCO's. CCP Omen wrote: 5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? Nope. It has been business as usual.
Substantia Nigra NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire 431	Posted - 2012.01.12 03:12:00 - [105] - Quote 1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible? No, not really. I've cleared a number of systems now ... removing those accursed interbus invaders ... and installed our own offices. For small groups (such as mine) the interbus installations are painfully tough, but that's prolly just me being greedy and impatient. The reinforcement timer on the self-install guys is a bit ambiguous and out-of-sync with that of a POS tower. 2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature? Not that I have seen. 3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations? Yes. As a w-space denizen running a number of systems I'm wondering how to approach the eventual onselling of some of our systems. 4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE? I hate PI! It's the most tedious click-fest aspect of my eve-experience. Having said that, I have cleared several systems and installed my own customs offices and I do run PI from many planets. 5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office? Not yet. OTOH: I love, love, love the corp-bookmark tab and wish it would accommodate more bookmarks. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread
Raven Ether Republic University Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2012.01.12 11:30:00 - [106] - Quote Too expensive, make them cheaper.

CCP Omen C C P C C P Alliance 148	Posted - 2012.01.12 13:53:00 - [107] - Quote I just wanted to post an update on what we are doing with your feedback. DONE - Waiting for deployment (probably in January) Boost storage capacity of the "storage pin" to 12000 m3 from 5000 m3 Increased the granularity of the standing check so that the standing of the user is checked on an individual and alliance level as well. The personal standing towards the owner corp takes precedence over the corp that in its turn takes precedence over alliance standing. Please keep in mind that it is still the owner corporation's standing that it is checked towards. ON BACKLOG - things that we are planning to do that will be released in point releases Allow owner of Customs Office to set standing check on behalf of own Alliance Allow owner of Customs Office to choose which wallet taxes are paid to IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future Remove the alliance only restriction on placing command centers in sov space Changes to the Jet Can Changes to the InterBus CO hp Thank you for your feedback! Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi

Unforgiven Storm Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 80	Posted - 2012.01.12 15:21:00 - [108] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: I just wanted to post an update on what we are doing with your feedback. DONE - Waiting for deployment (probably in January) Boost storage capacity of the "storage pin" to 12000 m3 from 5000 m3 Increased the granularity of the standing check so that the standing of the user is checked on an individual and alliance level as well. The personal standing towards the owner corp takes precedence over the corp that in its turn takes precedence over alliance standing. Please keep in mind that it is still the owner corporation's standing that it is checked towards. ON BACKLOG - things that we are planning to do that will be released in point releases Allow owner of Customs Office to set standing check on behalf of own Alliance Allow owner of Customs Office to choose which wallet taxes are paid to IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future Remove the alliance only restriction on placing command centers in sov space Changes to the Jet Can Changes to the InterBus CO hp Thank you for your feedback! Regards Omen Nice! Changes to the InterBus CO hp <--- prio 1 for this please Questions: Can you allow the possibility to destroy materials in the storage or in the launch pad that we do not want to export or launch? Can you allow people to see in the inventory window the materials people have in POCOs all over Eve like we see it today for Stations? Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again.
Gempei Siberian Khatru. Shadow Operations. 25	Posted - 2012.01.12 15:29:00 - [109] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: Changes to the InterBus CO hp this, shooting npc structures is boring
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 604	Posted - 2012.01.12 15:34:00 - [110] - Quote Good change to the storage PIN, lowering its PG cost too by about 1/3 or even 1/2 would still be needed to bring it in line with its purpose as "better storage then the LP".

pmchem GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 192	Posted - 2012.01.12 15:39:00 - [111] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future Changes to the InterBus CO hp Cutting their HP in half would be 5 minutes of effort for 25 pages of praise on patch day. No game-breaking side effects. Your call.
KelShanique TiAndre JaLarion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2012.01.12 15:54:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: Changes to the InterBus CO hp Yeah Buddy - Dj Pauly D
charlene charlottes Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2012.01.12 15:54:00 - [113] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: Changes to the InterBus CO hp please do this NOW. InterBus CO should be replaced as fast as possible by players to encourage player interaction, no reason for them to be that sturdy. Maybe reduce the current hp to 10%. The first rush is over, make it easy now please.
Unforgiven Storm Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 81	Posted - 2012.01.12 15:55:00 - [114] - Quote One more thing: Can you drag someone that works in the API and ask if the POCOs and PI information will ever be available, and if the answer is yes, when can we expect it to be ready for us to access? Corps: POCOs List -> location, taxes, standingsGÇª Players: Command Centers List -> location, number of structures in planet, POCOs taxes applied to us in each planet For each Command Center -> List of structures in each planet Information on each structure -> Extractors: number of heads, program status (running/stopped), program length, expect end time of program and the summary information like the total resource yield and average yield Industrial facilities: schematic in use, status (running/stopped) Silos and Spaceports: contents stored, space available Command centers: contents stored, space available, cpu and power usageGÇª Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 503	Posted - 2012.01.12 18:55:00 - [115] - Quote CCP Omen wrote: I just wanted to post an update on what we are doing with your feedback. DONE - Waiting for deployment (probably in January) Boost storage capacity of the "storage pin" to 12000 m3 from 5000 m3 Increased the granularity of the standing check so that the standing of the user is checked on an individual and alliance level as well. The personal standing towards the owner corp takes precedence over the corp that in its turn takes precedence over alliance standing. Please keep in mind that it is still the owner corporation's standing that it is checked towards. ON BACKLOG - things that we are planning to do that will be released in point releases Allow owner of Customs Office to set standing check on behalf of own Alliance Allow owner of Customs Office to choose which wallet taxes are paid to IN INVESTIGATION - Things we aren't sure about but are considering for the future Remove the alliance only restriction on placing command centers in sov space Changes to the Jet Can Changes to the InterBus CO hp Thank you for your feedback! Regards Omen no updated notifications for CO users? a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked
Strawberry Fields GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2012.01.13 00:58:00 - [116] - Quote Nthing my support for a reduction in interbus HP. No one has any stake in these, no one really wants them, as far as I know it is CCP's intent for PI to be a totally player owned and run section of the economy. So help us lose the interbus pocos. For large alliances its a pain in the backside to knock down hundreds and hundreds of them, for small corps its a pain to knock down a few because they don't have the firepower.
discordigant Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.01.13 04:40:00 - [117] - Quote Unforgiven Storm wrote: One more thing: Can you drag someone that works in the API and ask if the POCOs and PI information will ever be available, and if the answer is yes, when can we expect it to be ready for us to access? Corps: POCOs List -> location, taxes, standingsGÇª Players: Command Centers List -> location, number of structures in planet, POCOs taxes applied to us in each planet For each Command Center -> List of structures in each planet Information on each structure -> Extractors: number of heads, program status (running/stopped), program length, expect end time of program and the summary information like the total resource yield and average yield Industrial facilities: schematic in use, status (running/stopped) Silos and Spaceports: contents stored, space available Command centers: contents stored, space available, cpu and power usageGÇª A goon i can finally agree with, err umm this can't be good. Posted in a goon thread!!!!!
No La Greased Lightning Engineering 2	Posted - 2012.01.13 09:32:00 - [118] - Quote Scrapyard Bob wrote: Good change to the storage PIN, lowering its PG cost too by about 1/3 or even 1/2 would still be needed to bring it in line with its purpose as "better storage then the LP". And decreasing th Interbus HP I would also like to see more usage of P4 materials. There just isn't enough demand for P4's.
Jarnis McPieksu Aliastra Gallente Federation 200	Posted - 2012.01.13 09:38:00 - [119] - Quote No La wrote: Scrapyard Bob wrote: Good change to the storage PIN, lowering its PG cost too by about 1/3 or even 1/2 would still be needed to bring it in line with its purpose as "better storage then the LP". And decreasing th Interbus HP I would also like to see more usage of P4 materials. There just isn't enough demand for P4's. So extend your manufacturing chain; manufacture items that use P4s and sell them?
No La Greased Lightning Engineering 2	Posted - 2012.01.13 10:10:00 - [120] - Quote Jarnis McPieksu wrote: No La wrote: Scrapyard Bob wrote: Good change to the storage PIN, lowering its PG cost too by about 1/3 or even 1/2 would still be needed to bring it in line with its purpose as "better storage then the LP". And decreasing th Interbus HP I would also like to see more usage of P4 materials. There just isn't enough demand for P4's. So extend your manufacturing chain; manufacture items that use P4s and sell them? I'm guessing the demand for those items is low as well. Look at Sterile Conduits, they are used in POS modules and Capital stuff mostly. Apparently not enough POS's get destroyed As it is now, I could (with 3 chars) completely crash the sterile conduit market if i wanted to. I don't know how many people produce P4's, but it only takes a few to saturate the market. One character with 6 factory planets can produce 864 Sterile Conduits a day. With an average turnover of about 5000 a day in Jita, that Char produces 17 percent of the market. I'm not saying that would be practical, but the point is that it doesn't take a lot of people doing PI to kill the P4 market.



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