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Rev 2.0: Psychiatrists across the world rejoice...

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Szprinkoth Sponsz Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.11 22:25:00 - [31] ITT people listen to rumors and hit panic mode without doing any actual testing/read what people who actually have tested says. The warp to bubble-nerf applies only to hostiles warping to your bubble, not the tower owner corp/alliance. And yes, it applies even if no password is set. No, you cant make an insta, as the bubble works like a warp disruption field; i.e. you always end up on the inbound edge of it, regardless of where you would actually drop out of warp inside the shield. Do the canary spin!
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.06.11 22:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 11/06/2007 22:12:06 Originally by: Draconyx I really don't see the issue with 5 km to shields. Means a little more tactics for fighting. Tactics dont come into it when there's 30 dreads and 6 motherships sitting 30km away. You simply die. Quickly. Quote: And better logistics for POS's Better?! Are you some sort of sadist? Quote: Personnally our old corp used to keep a months worth of fuel at the POS and just have someone stop by once a week to refuel the tower (THat can be done in a shuttle) POS. Singular. This change barely affects single lone lowsec/0.0 corp. Its a major, massive, huge nerf to 0.0 alliances, who operate 20+ large POSes and rely on regular, daily carrier jumps to replenish supplies of T2 mods and capital/POS fuel. this capability has been reduced by 30%, and the time and manpower required to do it increased by a massive amount. All in the name of fixing a minor bug, which has gone unnoticed for 18 months. Quote: A little off topic but I seen the change that states frieghters can now interface with the POS towers but what about the POS corp bay. If they can it would be the whole system fairly easy to maintain. If not well just more work but managable. Freighters require 50 man escorts at all times when in space if you're not using a titan. Its just not feasable to use them for everyday logistics. Forgive me for not EXPLICTATELY stating multiples which there where and it is not my fault if your corp can't keep up with all the POS's it dropped. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. ANd I am very aware to what it takes to move a frieghter in 0.0 cause I lost one in 0.0 but I was asking about frieghters and POS hangers and can they interface.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.11 23:07:00 - [33] Edited by: Elmicker on 11/06/2007 23:06:35 Originally by: Korizan Forgive me for not EXPLICTATELY stating multiples which there where and it is not my fault if your corp can't keep up with all the POS's it dropped. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Have you ever had to deal with fuelling 10 large towers 40 jumps into 0.0? Its a job that takes tens of hours. Its an easy job to manage, monotonous and repetetive in fact. It just takes an ungodly amount of time. The changes introduced mean it'll now take longer. I'd also like to point out my experience does not come from my current corporation, with whom i have no other responsibilites than to shoot people, but from my previous role in Myriad Alliance where i managed the sovereignty towers for 2O-EEW and Z-H2MA in Immensea. That period in my career holds the record for most mind-numbingly tedious thing i have ever done. Putting up 10 towers in a day, fuelling them, putting up 15+ modules on every one takes far, far, far too long. The removal of GSCs from carriers make it much harder to organise and transport the fuel. Its adding another time sink to what is the most time-intensive operation in EVE. Its no mole hill, saying it is just shows you've obviously never dealt with more than one or two towers at once. Quote: ANd I am very aware to what it takes to move a frieghter in 0.0 cause I lost one in 0.0 but I was asking about frieghters and POS hangers and can they interface. Freighters can interface with POS hangars, but the only time this is likely to be used is for mass-transportation of minerals or components to a capital factory POS. Its overkill for simple fuel operations, due to the escort requirement.
Khonsu Rest home for Tired Seadogs	Posted - 2007.06.11 23:27:00 - [34] No more warp to zero for towers: Obviously the easy way out for nerfing POS bowling - which I assume won't be possible after this "change".
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.11 23:39:00 - [35] Re-posted from the Game Development Forum in case some of you guys missed it: Originally by: CCP Chronotis The POS bowling 'fix' does not nerf your bookmark warps to the control tower and in all tests I have performed where you are ordinarily allowed access inside the forcefield (password or corp/alliance flag), it is still the case that you can warp to zero of the control tower. Anyone who is not meant to be entering the field now stops a few km short of the forcefield without bouncing. If this is not the case on sisi, please run logserver and submit a bug report. -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.06.11 23:46:00 - [36] Edited by: FarScape III on 11/06/2007 23:46:07 Originally by: Patch86 No warping inside POS shields? Thats ridiculous. If a POS is under siege, you'll get shredded trying to get in to the thing. And the sheer inconvenience of slow boating the distance to the POS structures is a maddening thought. The cure really is worse than the disease... What did you guys do when it was WT15km? Or did people use bookmarks? Originally by: Callistus Re-posted from the Game Development Forum in case some of you guys missed it: Originally by: CCP Chronotis The POS bowling 'fix' does not nerf your bookmark warps to the control tower and in all tests I have performed where you are ordinarily allowed access inside the forcefield (password or corp/alliance flag), it is still the case that you can warp to zero of the control tower. Anyone who is not meant to be entering the field now stops a few km short of the forcefield without bouncing. If this is not the case on sisi, please run logserver and submit a bug report. So there you go people, everyone can relax now. Do what you want to EVE, as long as nothing fun is taken away and anything new is fun. A Minmater City... Cool! [url="http:/
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.06.12 00:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Elmicker Don't be a moron. POS fuel = wtfhuge. Carriers are the best way to transport it, freighters are too expensive and too slow. Maintaining a 50+man gang for 8 hours to escort a freighter is in excess of 4 billion isk lost at a rate of 10mil/hour/pilot. Carriers and dreads have always been used for 0.0 hauling, and failing a major, major, major nerf, they still will be. So don't use a 50 man gang. Send them all out to rat and make ISK to replace the freighter if you lose it. Freighter only needs a small escort, 3 or 4 scouts and a webber. I've regularly been involved in moving these things around in 0.0 this way and it's quite possible if you have scouts that know what they are doing, and safe spots in all the systems you will be travelling in. We have not lost a freighter yet. Busting through a gate camp to get into 0.0 is not possible with this arrangement but once in 0.0 it's simple. You have to avoid trouble rather than just blasting your way through anything. Now that freighters can interact with POS hangars it's quite easy to leave a large amount of fuel at the POS. Leave a hauler at one POS in a system to be used to refuel other POS and you can limit the number of hangars you need as well (although they are pretty cheap and use no fuel when offlined) and then go to the system in a fast frig/shuttle/other ship of choice.
Badhands Gallente Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.06.12 00:18:00 - [38] Have you ever considered that perhaps carriers weren't made to be uberhaulers? Originally by: Player Guide Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses.
Chelone	Posted - 2007.06.12 00:44:00 - [39] An idea which is probably not true, but possible - maybe "gas clouds" will be used as a local fuel supplement, so lots of hauling from empire isn't as necessary?
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.06.12 00:47:00 - [40] Originally by: Badhands Have you ever considered that perhaps carriers weren't made to be uberhaulers? This is most likely the case but given the price of freighters and the materials involved in POS fueling/movement i would rather use a carrier (it can jump) compared to a freighter which is stuck on normal shipping lanes. If i had access to a titan this COULD be different. But i dont and not a lot of people do. This could significantly impact smaller alliances.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.12 00:49:00 - [41] Originally by: Badhands Have you ever considered that perhaps carriers weren't made to be uberhaulers? They hardly hold much more than a T1 industrial. They're far from "uber" as it is. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Jirad TiSalver Caldari 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.12 01:04:00 - [42] I believe that CCP intends to make it much more difficult for huge alliances to control large territories. This could ultimately make the game more interesting and may give smaller organizations a chance to move out in to low sec. I have always thought it rediculous that an alliance with a few hundred members should control as much as 2 regions of space. Great job CCP!!!
Plaetean coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.12 01:10:00 - [43] Edited by: Plaetean on 12/06/2007 01:11:52 This is ridiculous, if the POS thing is being done to counter POS bowling; there's a much easier solution. Just make it so you warp to 5km outside the shield if you don't have the password/required standing for the POS to let you in. So instead of warping to the tower and being catapulted out, you land just outside the shield. Same principle, no POS bowling, no ******* up POSes and making them more of a bore + hassle than they already are. Carrier nerf is ridiculous too.. EDIT: damn just read above post, and CCP already had that idea. -----
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.06.12 01:11:00 - [44] Quote: No warping inside POS shields? Thats ridiculous. If a POS is under siege, you'll get shredded trying to get in to the thing. And the sheer inconvenience of slow boating the distance to the POS structures is a maddening thought. but isn't that how it should be? Why would you be able to warp through an armada attacking a POS directly to safety? It kind of role plays the shield coming down to let you in with out the shield coming down. I think CCP might be on the right track, might be the wrong way but right now it seems the wrong mechancis are dictating your empire size in 0.0. as well as how you control your turf.
Acacia Everto	Posted - 2007.06.12 01:53:00 - [45] If you read in the thread, it was quoted that: * If you're meant to be in the POS (e.g. Corp/Alliance) you will warp normally through the shield. * If you're a hostile, you will stop dead 5km out. I don't see why this arrangement is a big deal, unless you're relying on POS bowling, in which case your tactics are going to need a change.
Wink Caldari Asgard Protectorate	Posted - 2007.06.12 01:55:00 - [46] NIBDS Anyways, I've figured it out people. I started the thread in the Dev forums about the GSC (IBDS on that one). Why I tested this was because I was attempting to assist a friendly corp who's alliance was failing to..nvm on that part. Anyways, I've figured out what they are doing. This is Aprils Fools everyone!! Yea, these are all joke changes that the mods are making so ha ha, you guys got us. Good one, better than the Molle incident. Wow, you Dev's are good. Wooo, I'm still laughing at myself for thinking these were gonna be real changes. Pheew, I sure am glad this was all just an April Fools joke on the part of CCP and not real changes that were going onto Rev2 which, now that I think about it, if they were to implement them would be
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.06.12 02:20:00 - [47] looks like a anti large alliance change which is about time it will affect bob and slow the war games. Might be a good thing also an anti goon and would hav ebeen an anti ASCN and anti d2 measure
Dufas Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.06.12 02:27:00 - [48] Bend over and take it like a man..patch day is comming...and once again in order to stop a few ppl from doing something they screw the majority .... ________ RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Free Paris!!!!
Swindy BlackOps Brigade	Posted - 2007.06.12 02:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Elmicker All i have to ask is... WHY?! This must be a rhetorical question, because the answer is so obvious ... "because it's the easy thing to do."
Recluse Viramor Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.12 02:51:00 - [50] Originally by: CCP Chronotis The POS bowling 'fix' does not nerf your bookmark warps to the control tower and in all tests I have performed where you are ordinarily allowed access inside the forcefield (password or corp/alliance flag), it is still the case that you can warp to zero of the control tower. Anyone who is not meant to be entering the field now stops a few km short of the forcefield without bouncing. If this is not the case on sisi, please run logserver and submit a bug report.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.06.12 03:00:00 - [51] Instead of making POS' even more of a bore to manage why not just simply remove the smuggler gates, you know you only introduced them to further conflict in 0.0, now with conflict a-plenty there's no need for this catalyst, they have outlived their usefulness and needs to be put down! Also Known As
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.12 03:12:00 - [52] Folks, you're missing an important fact here. Space is flat. Think about that for a moment. Space...is...flat. At least, in Eve it is. If your POS is under siege, the attacking fleet isn't spread around it in sphere...they're grouped together at one point of it. If you want to get into a POS that's under siege safely, you warp in on the point OPPOSITE them.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.12 03:20:00 - [53] Originally by: Badhands Have you ever considered that perhaps carriers weren't made to be uberhaulers? It's right there in the name, bucko
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.12 05:03:00 - [54] Doesn't the change to the way sovereignity works, in addition to the new POS structures, also mean you'll likely use less POSs meaning you'll have less to refuel? With increased time to try to steal sovereignity now, it'll be just as hard, if not harder, on the attacker. Of course, I expect this point to be totally ignored with the way people prefer to whine all the time.
Herculite Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.12 05:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Christopher Scott I really hope CCP can find a better solution for POS bowling than removing WTZ from the tower, that is just plain stupid. Let me fix this a bit... I really hope CCP can find a better solution for POS bowling than removing WTZ from the tower, that is just plain LAZY.
Vana Gank Gallente Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2007.06.12 06:04:00 - [56] Edited by: Vana Gank on 12/06/2007 06:06:39 oops, dbl post -------------------------- Please adjust the map, please. Im not clever enough to figure out which way to fly.
Vana Gank Gallente Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2007.06.12 06:07:00 - [57] Originally by: Szprinkoth Sponsz ITT people listen to rumors and hit panic mode without doing any actual testing/read what people who actually have tested says. The warp to bubble-nerf applies only to hostiles warping to your bubble, not the tower owner corp/alliance. And yes, it applies even if no password is set. No, you cant make an insta, as the bubble works like a warp disruption field; i.e. you always end up on the inbound edge of it, regardless of where you would actually drop out of warp inside the shield. I hope ppl are able to read what some of you guys are posting - seems like ppl are too lazy to read anything except the OP. ;) -------------------------- Please adjust the map, please. Im not clever enough to figure out which way to fly.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2007.06.12 06:20:00 - [58] So what's this I hear about the Myrm getting nerfed to 4 midslots? _________________ Burn.
Layla Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.12 07:12:00 - [59] Originally by: Vana Gank Originally by: Szprinkoth Sponsz ITT people listen to rumors and hit panic mode without doing any actual testing/read what people who actually have tested says. The warp to bubble-nerf applies only to hostiles warping to your bubble, not the tower owner corp/alliance. And yes, it applies even if no password is set. No, you cant make an insta, as the bubble works like a warp disruption field; i.e. you always end up on the inbound edge of it, regardless of where you would actually drop out of warp inside the shield. I hope ppl are able to read what some of you guys are posting - seems like ppl are too lazy to read anything except the OP. ;) Thank you for the clarification. That certainly seems reasonable and will stop the bowling problem without affecting POS owners/allies. However, the GSC nerf for carriers seems unreasonable unless CCP seed Carrier containers (like the Freight containers) on the market. Carriers can haul an absolute maximum of 6M Trit at a time (without GSCs). That's hardly "uber" in today's Eve. Looking forward to seeing the Carrier containers, please CCP.
Kartikeya	Posted - 2007.06.12 07:53:00 - [60] Everyone is complaining about carrier nerf and its going to be a pain in ass to haul with a carrier. Maybe CCP never wanted a carrier to be used for hauling? Everyone is also complaining how its going to be a pain in the ass to fuel all 60 of there large POS. Maybe CCP doesnt want you to have so many damn POS and they are trying to nerf POS numbers so we dont have this *** ass POS warfare anymore. They are also making POS alot stronger now and more usefull. Now two POS in a system is a powerfull thing. One with a cyno blocker and one with a Jump bridge. All you need to keep a system safe is 2 POS and an alliance that can respond to a slowboat freighter trying to sneak in POS for spam.

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