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Skilltime T2 Large Rails to T2 Torps

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Vladt	Posted - 2007.06.12 12:45:00 - [1] I just wanne ask the community , maybe they have an explanation for the question I havent found yet Why is it that I have to skill for T2 Large Rail Spec 61 !! Days ( as of the prerequested skills ) and T2 Torpedos just 16 days ( as there are no prerequested skills like T2 heavies ) I just dont get the point , T2 Torp also have a T2 Ammu for every dmg Typ and there is a DMG and Speed Typ Torp avaible .. so totals it 8 ! T2 Ammus for the purose the Turret just have 2 no matter if you are Caldari, Gallente , Minmatar or Amar So it really makes not to much sense but maby someone can shed some light on my headegg Regards
Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.06.12 12:52:00 - [2] It is one of the dumbest things of all times. I've been hoping they drop the prerequisites on turrets. There are already enough time sinks IMO. signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.12 12:53:00 - [3] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 12/06/2007 12:52:53 T2 Rails (and most gunnery skills) have prerequisites that add a lot of dps. To get similar dps with torpedoes you need a lot of secondary skills. Also, with t2 large rails you get t2 med rails and t2 small rails as a bonus. (Torpedoes only gives you the opportunity to use torpedoes, nothing else). - Recruitment open again-
Buraken v2 Spontaneous Defenestration Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.06.12 12:53:00 - [4] You just opened up a can of worms buddy. Quote: Mail from: Houvire Takaerne 2006.06.06 19:25 Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:22:00 - [5] can of wiggly worms
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:27:00 - [6] Holy CRAP, do you mean to inform me that missiles are NOT identical to turrets in every way? This is impossible What about T2 drones? ----- Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:32:00 - [7] Man this horse is so dead that it really is not surprising that so many canfuls of worms are crawling around now... But I will beat it some more. Really, the med and small spec skills required for T2 large guns are a bummer. They are of zero use for people who only fly BS (and there are more than enough of those), so are indeed only a time sink. The support skill reqs are fine and should be on torps too imho, but the lower class weapons at 5 is over the top. Not that there is any fair way to change it now though. The child has long since drowned in the well... Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:33:00 - [8] Try Getting T2 heavy drones.... Considering how little love is directed toward drones by CCP the time scale is kinda whacked. Total time for large guns for me is roughly 150 days While to go from no missle skills to t2 torps and cruise missles would be less than 70
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:34:00 - [9] fresh out of trial ? I can't look up your char age ingame (no client at work), but the stupidity of your question is about right ... Look at what you get when you can use t2 rails and compare with t2 torps. You are wastly more efficient with the rails. And don't BS about ammo types, you have 2 torp launcher types (t1, t2) while you have 3xt1 rails and 3xt2 rails. If you can't fit a full rack of t2 torps, you are screwed. if you can't fit a full rack of 425s, you use 350s ... Rails and missiles are different, get use to that concept. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:37:00 - [10] Nice to see a caldari pilot with the headegg in the right place, not taking the easy route. And yes, that is how it works. Missiles really good when you are new, guns can be better when you finally have the skills for them...
Fortis Rosa	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Hugh Ruka fresh out of trial ? I can't look up your char age ingame (no client at work), but the stupidity of your question is about right ... Look at what you get when you can use t2 rails and compare with t2 torps. You are wastly more efficient with the rails. And don't BS about ammo types, you have 2 torp launcher types (t1, t2) while you have 3xt1 rails and 3xt2 rails. If you can't fit a full rack of t2 torps, you are screwed. if you can't fit a full rack of 425s, you use 350s ... Rails and missiles are different, get use to that concept. wts clue for this guy
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:50:00 - [12] Dug up from random post about the subject: Skills and ranks Hybrids capital Hybrid turret 7 controlled bursts 2 gunnery 1 large railgun specialization 8 large blaster specialization 8 Large Hybrid Turret 5 medium railgun specialization 5 medium blaster specialization 5 Med Hybrid turret 3 motion prediction 5 rapid firing 2 sharpshooter 2 small railgun specialization 3 small blaster specialization 3 Small hybrid turret 1 surgical strike 4 trajectory analysis 5 17 skills = 69 ranks Missiles citadel torpedoes 7 cruise missile specialization 8 cruise missiles 5 fof missiles 3 guided missile precision 5 heavy missile specialization 5 heavy missiles 3 missile bombardment 2 missile launcher operation 1 missile projection 4 rapid launch 2 rocket specialization 3 rockets 1 standard missile specialization 3 standard missiles 2 target navigation prediction 2 torpedo specialization 8 torpedoes 4 warhead upgrades 5 Heavy assault Missiles 3 Heavy assault Missiles Specialization 5 21 skills = 81 ranks Easier access, longer total training. That's it. ---
Veritas Falx Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.12 13:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Fortis Rosa Originally by: Hugh Ruka fresh out of trial ? I can't look up your char age ingame (no client at work), but the stupidity of your question is about right ... Look at what you get when you can use t2 rails and compare with t2 torps. You are wastly more efficient with the rails. And don't BS about ammo types, you have 2 torp launcher types (t1, t2) while you have 3xt1 rails and 3xt2 rails. If you can't fit a full rack of t2 torps, you are screwed. if you can't fit a full rack of 425s, you use 350s ... Rails and missiles are different, get use to that concept. wts clue for this guy He is partially right. Yes you could fit the smaller sub sizes but that completely changes roles and set-ups alot of the time. Also if you notice each skill, but the smaller spec skills, for t2 large turrets add damage. And most of the time even if you have t2 large ammo you will still flying something smaller time to time. People want these huge ownage ships as soon as they get out of the trial. That isn't the case. There are plenty of pwnage ships on the way. A good BC can easier defeat a crappy BS, and pretty much all good t2 cruisers could kill or disable a decent bs. Recon anyone? And honestly in pvp not everyone flies bs's. Get over it and go tackle or use some sort of EWar.
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Veritas Falx What the hell does that have to do with anything? Noone max's out all their gun or missile skills at to 5. Also there are things like fof missiles in there which few people train for. EDIT: I guess some people do, but few actually do. When you're talking caps and long time players, yeah, lots of people start taking things like Surgical Strike and Warhead Upgrades to V. Rapid Firing/Launch to V is a no brainer, just rank 2's for fairly good increases in dps. You'd be surprised just how many people I know that have HAS, AS, and CS skills to V ----- Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:09:00 - [15] Not to mention in almost any pvp situation, Railguns/Blasters > Torpedos. As for PvE, i very much doubt you'll be using T2 torps anyway.
Exlegion KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:10:00 - [16] Edited by: Exlegion on 12/06/2007 14:13:59 Support skills for gunnery tend to have lower ranks and apply to ALL turret types while missile support skills tend to have higher ranks and only apply to missile skills. For guns: Controlled Bursts - R2 Motion Predition - R2 Rapid Fire - R2 Sharpshooter - R2 Surgical Strike - R4 Trajectory Analysis - R5 For missiles: Guided Missile Precision - R5 (and does not help torpedoes) Missile Bombardment - R2 Missile Projection - R4 Rapid Launch - R2 Target Navigation Prediction - R2 Warhead Upgrades - R5 Weapon Upgrades, Advanced Weapon Upgrades, and Target Painting skills are universal and apply the same to all weapon types so I didn't include them. As you can see, it's easy to use missiles but hard to master them. It's harder to use guns but a little easier to master them, not to mention you can cross-train between them. They are different flavors (apples and oranges) and depending on what you want/need they each have their benefits and drawbacks. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 12/06/2007 12:52:53 T2 Rails (and most gunnery skills) have prerequisites that add a lot of dps. To get similar dps with torpedoes you need a lot of secondary skills. Also, with t2 large rails you get t2 med rails and t2 small rails as a bonus. (Torpedoes only gives you the opportunity to use torpedoes, nothing else). Bonus? LMAO People love to argue about this discrepancy, but to me it's pretty simple - I've heard since I started playing that you should specialize in this game if you want to compete, especially if you are a newer character. So let's say I want to specialize in battleships - to get my T2 guns, I have to first get all other sizes of T2 guns. How is that specialization again? Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
DeckardIRL Bombshell Cartel	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:34:00 - [18] I got T2 Cruise over a year ago.... it will be 10 days now that I will finally have T2 large rails and then another 10 days for blasters.. I fly a hac/recon so t2 meds are a must and an inty/as for t2 smalls. But pit a T2 torp raven against a T2 blaster Mega and the Mega should win... thats another debate maybe... Deck
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Beef Hardslab People love to argue about this discrepancy, but to me it's pretty simple - I've heard since I started playing that you should specialize in this game if you want to compete, especially if you are a newer character. So let's say I want to specialize in battleships - to get my T2 guns, I have to first get all other sizes of T2 guns. How is that specialization again? Something I've been thinking about for 0.0 ratting/anti-camp PvP dual mode on a Rokh is fitting up a full rack of 250mm Railgun IIs with antimatter ammo... Kinda like a Ferox from Hell. Something to tide me over until I'm done with the rest of the T2 Large skills.
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:16:00 - [20] also keep in mind that missiles are a secondary skill for lots of races, so requiring heavy missiles spec 4 before getting cruise spec would add HUGE amounts of training time to minmatar, and some gallente. Recruiting Terrorists
Paula Roscarai Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:20:00 - [21] this wont change for the simply reason that thousands of players already had to go through the long training times. It SHOULD take you at least two months to get large t2 bs guns. If you specialize, by the time you are able to use large t2 guns you might actually be able to afford them too.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Hugh Ruka fresh out of trial ? I can't look up your char age ingame (no client at work), but the stupidity of your question is about right ... So much for respecting other posters. May I remind you of the forum rules? Quote: Look at what you get when you can use t2 rails and compare with t2 torps. You are wastly more efficient with the rails. Oh, is that so? Why do people use the Raven for PvE? Blanket statements ftl. _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. -
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Paula Roscarai this wont change for the simply reason that thousands of players already had to go through the long training times. It SHOULD take you at least two months to get large t2 bs guns. If you specialize, by the time you are able to use large t2 guns you might actually be able to afford them too. LOL speak for yourself, I've been able to afford all but capital ships for months now. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:33:00 - [24] I believe the reason for this is that missiles were meant to be a low SP secondary weapon system. It was just not taken into account exactly how short a time it would be for a Caldari pilot to get phenomenal with cruise missiles. Of course one might argue, if you train straight to t2 cruise missiles you still don't have all those lovely smaller weapons. If you train straight through to t2 large hybrids / projectiles then you are totally versed in all gunnery skills. ----------
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Oh, is that so? Why do people use the Raven for PvE? Blanket statements ftl. Ravens are easier, not more efficient. Even though my Rokh's rails don't do the consistent damage that Raven does, by the time the second volley of the Raven's missiles hit the target, I've shot it three times with two more weapons. Some of my shots may miss, but almost all battlecruiser and battleship class NPCs mount defender missiles that shoot down one or two of your inbound shots. Every six missiles I shoot from a Raven at a Sansha battleship, only 4 or 5 actually land. With a Rokh, I shoot 6 railguns at them (I mount a salvager and t-beam), and 4 or 5 of them will actually hit at any given time, and my rate of fire is easily 33-50% faster than the Raven's.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:46:00 - [26] Apparently, it was a dev***** up back in the day. I remember it coming up back during the RMR discussions- apparently they simply forgot to link up the prereq tree back when they launched it, and by the time they realised they decided it was too late to be mucking around with it. In other words, its a free and lucky bonus to Torps over Turrets. Count themselves lucky, and move on. --------
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.12 16:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Patch86 Apparently, it was a dev***** up back in the day. I remember it coming up back during the RMR discussions- apparently they simply forgot to link up the prereq tree back when they launched it, and by the time they realised they decided it was too late to be mucking around with it. In other words, its a free and lucky bonus to Torps over Turrets. Count themselves lucky, and move on. With CCP's words: "Working as intended" ;) - Recruitment open again-
Apertotes Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:39:00 - [28] i believe the thing is that there are 5 different weapon systems: Drones, Missiles, Hybrids, Lasers and Projectiles. But three of those share secondary skills, which is a huge bonus when crosstraining races. that is why i think T2 turrets have higher skill pre-reqs than drones or missiles.
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:02:00 - [29] Because T2 torps suck now, and are completely worthless.... thats why
Interval The Triad Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:18:00 - [30] Doesn't matter really. You will be forced to get the smaller weapons anyway. That's how it happened to me. I trained the T2 missles backward. Torps-Cruise->Heavy->Light. Right now I don't really care. I have T2 guns and T2 missles so you can change it all you want.

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