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Skilltime T2 Large Rails to T2 Torps

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Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:26:00 - [31] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Not that there is any fair way to change it now though. The child has long since drowned in the well... I don't know, it's not like the skill would go away. Remember when they lowered the requirements for the Advanced Learning skills? signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.06.13 03:09:00 - [32] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Try Getting T2 heavy drones.... Considering how little love is directed toward drones by CCP the time scale is kinda whacked. Total time for large guns for me is roughly 150 days While to go from no missle skills to t2 torps and cruise missles would be less than 70 Now train for T2 in every missile. Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.06.13 03:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 12/06/2007 14:13:59 Support skills for gunnery tend to have lower ranks and apply to ALL turret types while missile support skills tend to have higher ranks and only apply to missile skills. For guns: Controlled Bursts - R2 Motion Predition - R2 Rapid Fire - R2 Sharpshooter - R2 Surgical Strike - R4 Trajectory Analysis - R5 For missiles: Guided Missile Precision - R5 (and does not help torpedoes) Missile Bombardment - R2 Missile Projection - R4 Rapid Launch - R2 Target Navigation Prediction - R2 Warhead Upgrades - R5 Weapon Upgrades, Advanced Weapon Upgrades, and Target Painting skills are universal and apply the same to all weapon types so I didn't include them. As you can see, it's easy to use missiles but hard to master them. It's harder to use guns but a little easier to master them, not to mention you can cross-train between them. They are different flavors (apples and oranges) and depending on what you want/need they each have their benefits and drawbacks. Guided Missile Precision AND Target Nav prediction do not work for ANY shortrange missile. Rockets, assault missiles, Torps and citadels do not get any benefit from those two skills. Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Kylar Renpurs	Posted - 2007.06.13 03:35:00 - [34] Originally by: Namingway Guided Missile Precision AND Target Nav prediction do not work for ANY shortrange missile. Rockets, assault missiles, Torps and citadels do not get any benefit from those two skills. QFT. The reason why turrets take so much longer to train is because the supporting skills cover 9 different weapon families (turrets, lasers, hybrids, small medium and large), as opposed to missile skills covering wahey, missiles. And then yeah, rockets, heavy assault missiles and torps miss out on the fun support skills. And want one more reason? My Torp does 600 damage every 8 seconds. My corpie with his * MEDIUM* laser was getting 700dmg wreckings every 4 seconds Improve Market Competition!
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.13 04:24:00 - [35] Guns are a ships main weapons, missiles, like drones and ewar, are secondary systems.
Gorken Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.06.13 04:52:00 - [36] Originally by: William Hamilton Guns are a ships main weapons, missiles, like drones and ewar, are secondary systems. Depends on the ship. http://www.infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/bush_Sab_photo.htm
aUTOKILL Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.06.13 05:01:00 - [37] I think it's perty cool. If i want t2 larges i also want t2 meds and smalls for when i fly other ships. unlike missiles in witch you have to train all of em. ~~~~~~ New Sig Coming Soon!
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.13 05:48:00 - [38] Each type of launcher (rocket, standard, heavy, heavy assault, cruise, siege) is seen as a separate weapon system, not of the same "family" as with gunnery which are the same but just of different sizes for a given race (hybrid, projectile or laser). If you look at the stats of the different missiles you can see they do not progress from rocket -> torpedo in an orderly linear fasion. This means a longer training time if you want to use the T2 variants of all the missile systems. Also, the support skills for missiles are of a higher rank to their gunnery equivalents and yield a smaller bonus in general (warhead upgrades is higher rank than surgical strike, yet the damage multiplier from it is smaller). _________________________________________________________ DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.06.13 06:04:00 - [39] CCP should concentrate on other things than this minor issue. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders	Posted - 2007.06.13 06:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: Hugh Ruka fresh out of trial ? I can't look up your char age ingame (no client at work), but the stupidity of your question is about right ... So much for respecting other posters. May I remind you of the forum rules? Do you have a better word for it ? Naive would not come close. Originally by: Tarron Sarek Quote: Look at what you get when you can use t2 rails and compare with t2 torps. You are wastly more efficient with the rails. Oh, is that so? Why do people use the Raven for PvE? Blanket statements ftl. Why do people NOT use Ravens for PvP ? Guess what ... Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Christopher Scott Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.13 06:58:00 - [41] Missiles take less time to train to Tech II because they are a supportive weapon. Caldari are the only race that seriously uses missiles as a primary weapon, and it is ONLY on some ships. Many Caldari ships are railboats with missile hardpoints for support. So are many Minmitar ships, and even a few Gallente/Amarr ones. If you increased the training time on missiles to be equal to turrets, then you will severely ** over Caldari and Minmitar, who rely on both to max out their weapon slots. Again, you want to nerf the majority of Caldari and Minmitar ships, only to balance a select few. It is really a dumb thing to do. Originally by:** DB Preacher I may be a muppet on these forums and wind peeps up massively but what is going on here is waaaaay over the edge of reasonable morality.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.13 07:01:00 - [42] And then the happy day finally arrived. As a Gallente pilot I am now in possession of Gal BS 5 T2 Heavy Rails and T2 Blasters as well as T2 heavy Drones(Ogres, 2 days from Berserker II's) and I can fit a good solid T2 armor tank. Man that felt soooo gooood.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.13 07:08:00 - [43] Originally by: William Hamilton Guns are a ships main weapons, missiles, like drones and ewar, are secondary systems. Tell that to a Kestrel/Caracal/Drake pilot...
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.13 07:54:00 - [44] To be fair, T2 turrets are superior in pretty much every way to T2 missiles - mainly for the increased DPS at close range, and the instant damage at long range. The only thing they are not better at, is NPCing. But when it comes to PvP, T2 turrets are well worth the training time. Anyway, if you think thats depressing, train T2 large turrets AND T2 heavy drones. Its enough to make you weep. But worth it in the end. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.06.13 08:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Butter Dog To be fair, T2 turrets are superior in pretty much every way to T2 missiles - mainly for the increased DPS at close range, and the instant damage at long range. The only thing they are not better at, is NPCing. But when it comes to PvP, T2 turrets are well worth the training time. Anyway, if you think thats depressing, train T2 large turrets AND T2 heavy drones. Its enough to make you weep. But worth it in the end. Sad thing is, T2 light and med drones ARE useful for a BS pilot, yet are not even required to train T2 heavies. While T2 small and med guns are worthless for a BS pilot, yet they ARE required... It just seems so wrong. Not that I mind the long training time, but it would feel a lot more right if large gun skills were a rank or three higher, and we did NOT have to train the small and med crap too... I know this would be counterproductive since you would gain less for the same training time, but it would sit better with me anyway. Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
Gungankllr Caldari STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.13 08:28:00 - [46] Well, turrets get high range or high damage. Missiles (torps) get high range or high damage, but the sig radius on the damage blows.
Ashaz Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.06.13 08:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 12/06/2007 12:52:53 T2 Rails (and most gunnery skills) have prerequisites that add a lot of dps. To get similar dps with torpedoes you need a lot of secondary skills. Also, with t2 large rails you get t2 med rails and t2 small rails as a bonus. (Torpedoes only gives you the opportunity to use torpedoes, nothing else). No offence, but that was a realy dumb comparison. You don't get the small and meds as a bonus. you are FORCED to train them to get the large ones. If you wanted small and heavy missiles you could just as easily train them too. It still doesn't explain the 16 vs 61 day difference. and the dps has been argued and compared in numerous threads already. iDrone
Gabriel Karade Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.13 08:48:00 - [48] Originally by: Veritas Falx What the hell does that have to do with anything? Noone max's out all their gun or missile skills at to 5. Also there are things like fof missiles in there which few people train for. EDIT: I guess some people do, but few actually do. waves Herrroo It may seem like a waste, but all those '2% here', '5% here', '3% here' really start to add up, so it does give you an edge, though I suppose there is an e-wang element to it too... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Ashaz Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.06.13 08:57:00 - [49] Quote: And want one more reason? My Torp does 600 damage every 8 seconds. My corpie with his * MEDIUM* laser was getting 700dmg wreckings every 4 seconds heh. good point realy. Once you've spent all that time training, you do become better then the quick and easy path would make you. Altho I do doubt he was wreckig every 4 seconds. /me currently crosstraining the legendary gimped amarr iDrone
Lucy Skylancer	Posted - 2007.06.13 09:29:00 - [50] Edited by: Lucy Skylancer on 13/06/2007 09:28:45 Tech-2 large gun training was that way long before tech-2 launchers and advanced missile skills existed. So I'd say people should be happy that they get the tech-2 missiles easier (maybe because of a mistake). Personally I've trained for Minmatar as a newbie, but Minmatar battleships with low skillpoints didn't cut it in PvE, on the other hand there was the Raven that owned everything with torps at that time with minimum skillpoints. I adapted invested a 2 or 3 weeks in Caldari and was fine. Then the advanced missile skills came out and the Raven actually needed some skillpoints to perform good again, so I trained the new missile skills up and then Caldari BS to 5. And the Raven was fine again. Later the Rokh was announced, I wanted to use it, so I trained rails from zero to tech-2 large rails. At that point the time investment seemed normal for me. I've trained my other Minnie already to tech-2 projectiles a bit earlier and then for dreads, so waiting several weeks for lvl.5 skills to finish was normal. If I see a skill that takes 3-4 weeks to level 5, I think: 'Oh, only 3-4 weeks, cool.'
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.13 10:40:00 - [51] Originally by: Ashaz No offence, but that was a realy dumb comparison. You don't get the small and meds as a bonus. you are FORCED to train them to get the large ones. If you wanted small and heavy missiles you could just as easily train them too. It still doesn't explain the 16 vs 61 day difference. and the dps has been argued and compared in numerous threads already. None taken. For the missiles to be anywhere near effective you need to train secondary skills. The word is: DIFFERENT. When you're up to those large guns, you can use t2 weapons for your frigs, cruisers, and battleship, and quite effectively too. Once the guy training torps are done, he can spit out torpedoes that take 20 seconds to reach the target and do horrible dps. And that's all. I'll gladly trade, let's change so your t2 large rails go slow and dumb, but can do multiple damage types, and I'll train a bit more and have insta-dps but only thermal/kinetic. Gladly. I'm afraid you would at the same time lose your damage bonuses on your battleships, and instead have your slow ass hunks of metal go FURTHER! Yes! That's right folks, you can now wait for 30 seconds for the torpedo to arrive at destination instead of 20! But travel a longer distance. ;) Again, different types of weaponry, key word: DIFFERENT. You're stupid to even bother with comparing them in the end, no offense. - Recruitment open again-
Kather Turbulent	Posted - 2007.06.13 10:57:00 - [52] i spent god knows how long training large lasers to tech 2. as a result i can sit in my ship and feel that i've put the time into being able to fly it properly. noobs in battleships is one thing, noobs in well fitted battleships is another (although they wont have the support skills) conversely, my alt has just finished training for tech 2 torps. my sense of excitement when i finally achieved this was no-where near as great as when i got t2 large turrets. missiles are primarily a secondary weapon. as are drones. a few ships having them as a main weapon makes those ships different instead of the weapon system being normal. as a secondary weapons i like the fact that missiles are easier to train into one particular area --------------------------------------------- Long live the Evil Proctologists!
Jake Stevens The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.06.13 11:02:00 - [53] Not sure if was said yet but, T2 torps suck so who cares
Dave White coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.13 11:10:00 - [54] Wormy. CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard
Bentula	Posted - 2007.06.13 14:07:00 - [55] Imho this isnt wormy, its cheesy. How many ships can you fully fit with T2 weapons after training for large t2 rails and blasters? Just counting from BC size up: Brutix, myrmidon, ferox, domi, megathron, rokh, hyperion, astarte, eos How many ships can you fully t2 fit after training for T2 torps? Raven Whoopdedoo, its not taking as long to train for the primary weaponsystem of a single ship then it takes to train for a primary weapon system thats used by two races.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.13 14:18:00 - [56] Edited by: Janu Hull on 13/06/2007 14:20:05 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: William Hamilton Guns are a ships main weapons, missiles, like drones and ewar, are secondary systems. Tell that to a Kestrel/Caracal/Drake pilot... Add Raven to that, too. And the Pheonix.
Vactet Immortalis Silens FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.13 14:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Quote: Look at what you get when you can use t2 rails and compare with t2 torps. You are wastly more efficient with the rails. Oh, is that so? Why do people use the Raven for PvE? Blanket statements ftl. People use the raven for PVE because of missiles 1 big advantage, ability to change damage time. They take advantage of the weakness's in the enemy NPC's tank to get better damage. Ive actually used both a T2 setup raven (Arbies instead actually. But you wouldnt use T2 for ratting to begin with) and a T2 Rokh (Blasters) for ratting in the drone regions. Blasters kill quicker. So alot of people use a raven causes its easy to get into and easy to fit earlier in the game. And at the early stage, it does perform better. Delivering the kick to the jaw of society to stop it from drooling on itself like the ignorant slop it is since 1984. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
Shalia Ripper Caldari High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.13 15:47:00 - [58] Originally by: Slash Harnet It is one of the dumbest things of all times. I've been hoping they drop the prerequisites on turrets. There are already enough time sinks IMO. If they drop them after I go through all the months of training up to T2 Blasters, I might just have to lose my temper.
Vladt	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:37:00 - [59] well the answers are quite intresting thanks for the work :) I would think a good roard to T2 Torp would be = standard T2 - heavy T2 - Torpedos T2 and for cruise missle rockets T2 - assault haevy T2 - Cruise Missle and a secondery to it. maybe that also hinders those macro o.o because it is so easy to get a new low level char to "farm" thoses Guristas
WisdomLikeSilence Rogue Method Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 12:28:00 - [60] Wisdo demands an xtra large armour rep since her megathron cant use the xtra large sheild booster! Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) I want to use my robot-wisdo body!

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