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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.13 13:57:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
To the OP: all your ideas are ridiculous. Each ship is brilliant the way it is. You're whining about running out of CAP on a CALDARI SHIP?! HAHAHAHAHAA. Oh, that's a good one. Try running a Neutron Mega and then getting nossed, by a single large nos, and see how long your cap lasts. At least your missiles don't shut off after you're cap dead.
Uhh?
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Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.13 14:48:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 13/06/2007 14:50:05
Edited by: Neuromandis on 13/06/2007 14:48:52
As far as the cap power relay goes, I would like to point out the following:
It seems that Armor tankers get 3 possibilities:
1) Capacitor Boosters for EXTREME cap recharge (pvp-use) in their NON-tanking midslots
2) Capacitor Rechargers for MEDIUM (pve-use) cap recharge in their NON-tanking midslots
3) Capacitor Power Relay for GOOD (pvp/pve-use) cap recharge in their tanking lows
Shield tankers get:
a) Capacitor Boosters for EXTREME cap recharge (pvp-use) in their TANKING mids
b) Capacitor Rechargers for MEDIUM cap recharge (pvp-pve use) in their TANKING mids
c) Capacitor Flux coils - Power Diagnostic Systems for LIGHT cap recharge (pve use) in their NON tanking mids.
In effect, the slight imbalance that does exist comes from 2 facts:
a) Cap recharger is A LOT better than Capacitor Flux and a bit better than PDU for cap
b) Cap Injectors are Midslots
I still don't have a problem with the Shield tankers, but I do think they have a much harder time fitting the (mandatory for tank-intensive pvp) cap-injector in their midslots than armor tankers.
The only problem that does exist is that the Caldaris don't have the speed to disengage if the cap is running out, while the other shield tankers (minmatar) have it.
And don't tell me that missiles don't use cap. I fly the Caldari GUNSHIPS, and hence I speak mainly of them.
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.13 15:05:00 -
[33]
Apart from capitals, Caldari are fine.
- Recruitment open again-
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.06.13 15:37:00 -
[34]
Edited by: n0thing on 13/06/2007 15:37:07
Originally by: Neuromandis
Edited by: Neuromandis on 13/06/2007 14:50:05
Edited by: Neuromandis on 13/06/2007 14:48:52
As far as the cap power relay goes, I would like to point out the following:
It seems that Armor tankers get 3 possibilities:
1) Capacitor Boosters for EXTREME cap recharge (pvp-use) in their NON-tanking midslots
2) Capacitor Rechargers for MEDIUM (pve-use) cap recharge in their NON-tanking midslots
3) Capacitor Power Relay for GOOD (pvp/pve-use) cap recharge in their tanking lows
Shield tankers get:
a) Capacitor Boosters for EXTREME cap recharge (pvp-use) in their TANKING mids
b) Capacitor Rechargers for MEDIUM cap recharge (pvp-pve use) in their TANKING mids
c) Capacitor Flux coils - Power Diagnostic Systems for LIGHT cap recharge (pve use) in their NON tanking mids.
In effect, the slight imbalance that does exist comes from 2 facts:
a) Cap recharger is A LOT better than Capacitor Flux and a bit better than PDU for cap
b) Cap Injectors are Midslots
I still don't have a problem with the Shield tankers, but I do think they have a much harder time fitting the (mandatory for tank-intensive pvp) cap-injector in their midslots than armor tankers.
The only problem that does exist is that the Caldaris don't have the speed to disengage if the cap is running out, while the other shield tankers (minmatar) have it.
And don't tell me that missiles don't use cap. I fly the Caldari GUNSHIPS, and hence I speak mainly of them.
Caldari can easily use PDU that gives 4 bonuses. No other race apart from shield tankers use it.
You get a mod with 4 effects and no penalty and still something is wrong?
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Vitrael
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.06.13 16:31:00 -
[35]
I dunno if I can have any respect for a poster who asks "Who plays minmatar? "
Congratulations, your race is already the most effective moneymaker with the fewest skill points. You have almost infinite headroom to dictate range using guided missiles and you take it completely for granted. You don't need to worry about transversal velocities or optimal ranges either.
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Relyen
Caldari
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.06.13 22:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Vitrael
I dunno if I can have any respect for a poster who asks "Who plays minmatar?"
Congratulations, your race is already the most effective moneymaker with the fewest skill points. You have almost infinite headroom to dictate range using guided missiles and you take it completely for granted. You don't need to worry about transversal velocities or optimal ranges either.
Which is why most FC's will say, if you can take anything but a raven, please do. :)
Because they are such a wtfomgpwn machine, that they feel it's too overpowered for their gangs :)
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Icome4u
Caldari
Dark and Light inc.
D-L
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Posted - 2007.06.14 01:13:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Icome4u on 14/06/2007 01:12:41
Originally by: Vitrael
I dunno if I can have any respect for a poster who asks "Who plays minmatar?"
Lucky for me i don't give much for your 'respect'. Even less when you can't see it was sarcasm. I though it was kinda oblivious since i also play Minmatar... but some people i guess you have to wave it (very slowly) in front of their face
Back on topic, at least people see that Caldari Capital are broken billions of isk ships. Mind helping us CCP?
Also, please remember people, the only way caldari ships can be fully fitted like their counterparts is with a damn cpu module... thats wrong.
Oh and the person that posted above me, yeah that was sarcasm, so Vitrael, please m8.... just... shhh
______
Originally by: Vyger
If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner? 
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Lenaria
Caldari
Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2007.06.14 05:57:00 -
[38]
Even 1 fact - what Scorpions and Rooks always get primared before anything else - will tell you how "useless" caldari EW ships are.
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1 Titan is ok, 2 kills any fun, 3 make peoples quit eve. No wonder online numbers decline for 3rd month. |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:22:00 -
[39]
Jepp, the reason they get primaried in fleet battles is because they are the biggest danger.
A scorp which gets popped as first ship has less than an effect that a turret ship which lives through most or all of the battle, that is true. But what if there is no scorp, what gets primaried? A turret ship. And the effect that one has on the battle before it dies is far smaller than that a scorp has on a battle before it dies.
Originally by: Neuromandis
As far as the cap power relay goes, I would like to point out the following:
It seems that Armor tankers get 3 possibilities:
1) Capacitor Boosters for EXTREME cap recharge (pvp-use) in their NON-tanking midslots
2) Capacitor Rechargers for MEDIUM (pve-use) cap recharge in their NON-tanking midslots
3) Capacitor Power Relay for GOOD (pvp/pve-use) cap recharge in their tanking lows
Shield tankers get:
a) Capacitor Boosters for EXTREME cap recharge (pvp-use) in their TANKING mids
b) Capacitor Rechargers for MEDIUM cap recharge (pvp-pve use) in their TANKING mids
c) Capacitor Flux coils - Power Diagnostic Systems for LIGHT cap recharge (pve use) in their NON tanking mids.
In effect, the slight imbalance that does exist comes from 2 facts:
a) Cap recharger is A LOT better than Capacitor Flux and a bit better than PDU for cap
b) Cap Injectors are Midslots
I still don't have a problem with the Shield tankers, but I do think they have a much harder time fitting the (mandatory for tank-intensive pvp) cap-injector in their midslots than armor tankers.
The only problem that does exist is that the Caldaris don't have the speed to disengage if the cap is running out, while the other shield tankers (minmatar) have it.
And don't tell me that missiles don't use cap. I fly the Caldari GUNSHIPS, and hence I speak mainly of them.
Pretty much the only halfway sensible pro-caldari post here.
PDU2s are only about half as effective as CR2. However they also give other boni. For sustainable tanks they are not that important as cap recharge, but the ship HP bonus is rather useful for fleet battles IMO since you cannot tank the enemy dps there anyways. And the grid bonus helps with fitting for many setups. There might be a slight imbalance, but it isn't as huge as you make it IMO.
Originally by: William Hamilton
Change cap power relay from shield boost penalty to shield recharge penalty mabye?
Horrible idea. As was mentioned already the CPR penality was introduced for a reason. Shield recharge is only important for passive tankers and those do not care about cap regeneration in either case. You might as well just remove it, same effect.
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Now, where IMO there are problems with caldari is the capital side, espcialyl with the cap regeneration and cpu fitting. But that isn't that much of a problem to fix, boost the cpu (or reduce the cpu on the capital modules) and change the CPR penality that it doesn't apply on capital shield boosters.
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Damned Force
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:26:00 -
[40]
Give cap rech a penality to armor rep?
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Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.14 15:40:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 14/06/2007 15:40:10
Originally by: n0thing
Caldari can easily use PDU that gives 4 bonuses. No other race apart from shield tankers use it.
You get a mod with 4 effects and no penalty and still something is wrong?
I thought I was perfectly clear. It seems I was not.
Originally by: Neuromandis
I still don't have a problem with the Shield tankers, but I do think they have a much harder time fitting the (mandatory for tank-intensive pvp) cap-injector in their midslots than armor tankers.
The only problem that does exist is that the Caldaris don't have the speed to disengage if the cap is running out, while the other shield tankers (minmatar) have it.
Which means: Cap boosters are extremely important kiss of life for cap-intensive pvp. If you don't have them there are many cases in which you must disengage or die. Simply put, cap-recharge pvp-ships is not as strong tanks (note, I am not saying "not as GOOD") as cap-injected pvp ships. When you are a recharge-based setup, and you go against injected setups, there are cases you need to GTFO or die. Simple as that. Minmatar shield tankers can, cause they have speed, caldari shield tankers cannot, cause they don't.
PDU's are fine, they have their uses, I use them extensively, but they are NOT a replacement for an injector OR for good ship speed. That's all I'm saying. Please don't oversimplify what I said by responding with a blanket answer like "PDU's have 4 bonuses". Thanks, but I knew it already and I was responding with that in mind too.
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Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.14 15:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Neuromandis
Edited by: Neuromandis on 14/06/2007 15:40:10
Originally by: n0thing
Caldari can easily use PDU that gives 4 bonuses. No other race apart from shield tankers use it.
You get a mod with 4 effects and no penalty and still something is wrong?
I thought I was perfectly clear. It seems I was not.
Originally by: Neuromandis
I still don't have a problem with the Shield tankers, but I do think they have a much harder time fitting the (mandatory for tank-intensive pvp) cap-injector in their midslots than armor tankers.
The only problem that does exist is that the Caldaris don't have the speed to disengage if the cap is running out, while the other shield tankers (minmatar) have it.
Which means: Cap boosters are extremely important kiss of life for cap-intensive pvp. If you don't have them there are many cases in which you must disengage or die. Simply put, cap-recharge pvp-ships is not as strong tanks (note, I am not saying "not as GOOD") as cap-injected pvp ships. When you are a recharge-based setup, and you go against injected setups, there are cases you need to GTFO or die. Simple as that. Minmatar shield tankers can, cause they have speed, caldari shield tankers cannot, cause they don't.
PDU's are fine, they have their uses, I use them extensively, but they are NOT a replacement for an injector OR for good ship speed. That's all I'm saying. Please don't oversimplify what I said by responding with a blanket answer like "PDU's have 4 bonuses". Thanks, but I knew it already and I was responding with that in mind too.
Originally by: Aramendel
PDU2s are only about half as effective as CR2. However they also give other boni. For sustainable tanks they are not that important as cap recharge, but the ship HP bonus is rather useful for fleet battles IMO since you cannot tank the enemy dps there anyways. And the grid bonus helps with fitting for many setups. There might be a slight imbalance, but it isn't as huge as you make it IMO.
Yes, PDU's are very good. I was mainly referring to their relation with Injectors. And also on frigates (T1 or T2), where a CPR or two mean the difference between sustainable mwd/scram/ab et.c or not.
But anyway, as I said before, and as you said yourself, the imbalance, if it exists, is slight. As I already said, I believe the only true Caldari problem is their speed/mass/agility.
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