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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.06.14 09:35:00 - [61] Nice attempt, but not addressing the main problem.... The main problem with POS warfare today is not that sov is too simplified, or that there are too few different POS structures, or outposts are not upgradable.... The main problem has two parts: 1. Shooting POS after POS is intensely boring. 2. POS spamming is stupidly easy. You're not solving either!!! The 'solution' mentioned in other posts from CCP employees (i.e. limit on number of POS deployed per day), doesn't solve anything either... How about solving the PROBLEMS with POS warfare instead of inventing fluff???? Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Sister Aika	Posted - 2007.06.14 09:55:00 - [62] So, lots of new stuff for "big" alliances, noting really to look forward to for the individual player ?
PC5 ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.06.14 10:08:00 - [63] Edited by: PC5 on 14/06/2007 10:07:47 More boring POS wars, POS spam - thats what EVE needs. Aparently someone in CCP likes them or they are just blind ppl who had idea what to do next in game without any perspecive how it will look in practice. Blog is good but rest is crap. Insted of 'prepare your weapons!' well be saying 'prepare your towers and dreads!'.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.14 10:17:00 - [64] I wonder when CCP will find out that fun in alliance warfare comes from people shooting people, NOT people shooting structures..... All this is just enhancing the boredom of territorial warfare, not making it more fun. It's been said before. There is one small change that'll make POS warfare more fun, and that is making pos spamming invalid as a tactic (plenty of suggestions has been made as to how)... ...but of.c. that's not being adressed at all..... 'Lets add some pos structures instead and hope that shuts people up for a while...' 'Maybe if we make pos warfare even more boring, people will stop whining....' My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2007.06.14 10:31:00 - [65] Please correct me if i'm wrong, but every starbase module is being moved out of the protective field of the control tower, the blog mentions that (only) the starbase tower is invunerable in a captial system. So you can still attack the individual modules, that would mean capital ship arrays are vunerable. So not having POS guns online in the capital system is not smart, as it makes all the other modules vunerable to attack. The POS guns are also outside the protective field of the starbase tower and thus also vunerable to attacks by a non capital fleet. You don't have to destroy them, you just want them offline, that only requires going through the shield and the armor and doing a little damage to the hull. Then you bring in the dreads... Sure the POS guns can concentrate fire, but you'll need actual people online to do that, and while it can be done with alts, these cost money to maintain. Due to the changes to the POS, they are 'easier' to disable. Take out the guns, take out the Cynosural Field Jammer, jump in the capitals and destroy the tower (or the capital ship array). You could send a strike force that quickly disable all the guns before any of the alts are active. A lot of POSes not only means a lot of isk to build and maintain them, but also requires a lot of actual players to operate them in case of attack. While it won't cost you Sovereignity right away, it can cost you a capital ship array. A relatively small gang can now go raiding POSes, offlining important POS systems, making the enemy all jumpy, because they are now vunerable in location x and they might be invaded there. The trick is to take they enemy by suprise (no one available in the first couple of minutes to take over the POS guns), and have enough fire power available to offline modules relatively quickly. Hving a lot of these small groups is way more effective then having one huge blob of 200 ships engaging a POS. That also means that there need to be a lot of smaller response fleets that need to be able to Warp in quickly when the POS gets attacked. Now it also becomes a tactical move if you want your Capital in a system with a large number of moons (difficult to defend them all at once, but a lot of resources) or a small number of moons (easier to defend, but less resources to take advantage of). I think that CCP has made an excellent move with all the changes that are comming in Rev2 regarding warfare. It makes 0.0 a lot more interesting for the beginning player, because a small group of them can make a huge difference. ps. I'm a highsec player, but with these developments i'm just itching to move to 0.0 space and make my claim ;-)
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.06.14 10:50:00 - [66] Originally by: Cergorach Please correct me if i'm wrong, but every starbase module is being moved out of the protective field of the control tower, the blog mentions that (only) the starbase tower is invunerable in a captial system. It will mainly be offensive modules outside the force field so no popping of capital assembly arrays until the tower is dead I'm afraid. We're sorry, something happened.
zykerx Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.14 10:52:00 - [67] Originally by: Cergorach Please correct me if i'm wrong, but every starbase module is being moved out of the protective field of the control tower, the blog mentions that (only) the starbase tower is invunerable in a captial system. So you can still attack the individual modules, that would mean capital ship arrays are vunerable. So not having POS guns online in the capital system is not smart, as it makes all the other modules vunerable to attack. The POS guns are also outside the protective field of the starbase tower and thus also vunerable to attacks by a non capital fleet. You don't have to destroy them, you just want them offline, that only requires going through the shield and the armor and doing a little damage to the hull. Then you bring in the dreads... Sure the POS guns can concentrate fire, but you'll need actual people online to do that, and while it can be done with alts, these cost money to maintain. Due to the changes to the POS, they are 'easier' to disable. Take out the guns, take out the Cynosural Field Jammer, jump in the capitals and destroy the tower (or the capital ship array). You could send a strike force that quickly disable all the guns before any of the alts are active. A lot of POSes not only means a lot of isk to build and maintain them, but also requires a lot of actual players to operate them in case of attack. While it won't cost you Sovereignity right away, it can cost you a capital ship array. A relatively small gang can now go raiding POSes, offlining important POS systems, making the enemy all jumpy, because they are now vunerable in location x and they might be invaded there. The trick is to take they enemy by suprise (no one available in the first couple of minutes to take over the POS guns), and have enough fire power available to offline modules relatively quickly. Hving a lot of these small groups is way more effective then having one huge blob of 200 ships engaging a POS. That also means that there need to be a lot of smaller response fleets that need to be able to Warp in quickly when the POS gets attacked. Now it also becomes a tactical move if you want your Capital in a system with a large number of moons (difficult to defend them all at once, but a lot of resources) or a small number of moons (easier to defend, but less resources to take advantage of). I think that CCP has made an excellent move with all the changes that are comming in Rev2 regarding warfare. It makes 0.0 a lot more interesting for the beginning player, because a small group of them can make a huge difference. ps. I'm a highsec player, but with these developments i'm just itching to move to 0.0 space and make my claim ;-) only warfare modules wil be outside shield, like guns, scramblers etc, not the buildarrays or corphangers etc darn ccp, more freaking boring posjunk, man thats yust rly lame smal ships attacking the posguns does mean alot dead smalships aswel . "MY COMMENTS IN NO WAY REFLECT MY CORP OR ALLIANCE"
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:26:00 - [68] Edited by: Gyro DuAquin1 on 14/06/2007 11:25:08 Good thing moving pos guns outside, that way bs fleets can operate at a pos and help their caps. Intresting but not addressing the real problem of the sov thing, as someone said before, Alliance warfare should be based on ppl shootin ppl not ppl shootin towers.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:26:00 - [69] Originally by: zykerx darn ccp, more freaking boring posjunk, man thats yust rly lame smal ships attacking the posguns does mean alot dead smalships aswel Yeah..... pretty much sums it up..... Cut down on fun, add boring stuff... Where is the fun in shooting pos structures (more required)? Where is the fun in pos spamming (not solved)? Where is the fun in loosing ships to structures (PvE)? Where is the fun in maintaining even more pos (const sov)? NOTHING is added in this that encourages PvP in territorial warfare. All new additions added are essentially PvE..... Seems like player-vs-structure is CCP's new ideal for 0.0 warfare.... I feel a bit silly for thinking PvP was what 0.0 was about... PS: FFS just solve pos spam. All this other **** is not needed... My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Janeway	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:42:00 - [70] If you have been following the big BOB debate lately you would have already known much of this info already. BOB have known about these changes for ages and are already making plans there comments on these forums make that much plainly obvious. I for one wont be paying any attention to these changes since it has been designed plainly with a specific allience in mind.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:53:00 - [71] I just saw colors... and circles... and... stuff, not that I was paying a lot of attention. Glad to be nomadic... god I'd hate to have to deal with that crap >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:55:00 - [72] Originally by: Janeway If you have been following the big BOB debate lately you would have already known much of this info already. BOB have known about these changes for ages and are already making plans there comments on these forums make that much plainly obvious. I for one wont be paying any attention to these changes since it has been designed plainly with a specific allience in mind. You miss one very importatnt thing. This will open UP 0.0. Holding const sov in more than a few contalations will take quite a lot of efford. The simple fact that people can do hit and run attacks on the posses will force alliances to focus their defence forces more. Invading the whole universe will become LOT harder a few months after Rev 2, let alone holding the whole universe. I see this rsulting in alliances holding smaller areas, but defending them more, while keeping economic warfare on enimies going by keeping thier constalation(s) under pressure. You will see on Sisi that earning isk in 0.0 has become a lot easier on avarege, while the big earners, (6+ plexes) have been nerfed by the simple fact that they are now hidden and pretty hard to find. This will mean that its not important for alliances to hold large areas of space anymore, for thier memebrs to have good places to earn ISK. Does this mean that large alliance wont still TRY to hold onto large areas? Certainly not. THere is prestige in that. But its getting a lot harder, and it doesn't really add any bonus to you income to do so. SO in short: Go back to your cave troll. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Dr Aryandi Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2007.06.14 13:59:00 - [73] The sov ideas look nice. The dev blog is well written and the animations were a good touch. Sorting POS spam and seige is becoming more urgent all the time though. I saw a really nice suggestion someone made on POS spamming a while ago... Basically it said that rather than adding up the number of towers in the system you do the following: Add up the number of towers on each planet. Each planet then gets claimed. The person with the most planets gets sovereignty. Why does this help? Lets say you have a system with 60 moons over 5 planets. Planet 1: 3 Moons Planet 2: 12 Moons Planet 3: 1 Moon Planet 4: 34 Moons Planet 5: 10 Moons Old system you needed 31 moons claimed. New system...put 2 pos on planet 1, 1 on planet 3, 6 on planet 5. 9 POS now means you control the system by strategically placing them in the right place. Now not all moons are equal. As I said at the start this is not my idea, sorry I can't remember who originally suggested it, but I think it is an excellent one. Blueprint Research Service Available See thread for details.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.06.14 13:59:00 - [74] I like the thought that you'll have to try and work through outlying systems to attack the capital, however, I think its a very, very poor idea to make the capital system's POSes invulnerable. Give them a defensive bonus, that's fine, but invulnerable? It takes away the option of blitzkrieg - that being said, I really think this will encourage further blobbing. Might be lessened with bombs, but the motivation will be there and stronger than ever. Looking for a relaxed ingame RP channel to join? La Maison De Tous Les Plaisirs
Almiel Gallente Xenodus Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.14 14:27:00 - [75] o/
Virtuozzo IVC Consortium INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.14 14:27:00 - [76] Any chance we could um get our hands on the .fla source files for those .swf files? :-) For adaptation to actual constellations in game ... they're lovely. Virtuozzo Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" snip Inappropriate. -Elmo Pug
Garr Anders Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.06.14 15:00:00 - [77] Edited by: Garr Anders on 14/06/2007 15:00:12 Planets: The New Sovereignty Mechanic Originally by: Dr Aryandi ... As I said at the start this is not my idea, sorry I can't remember who originally suggested it, but I think it is an excellent one. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=530688 by Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys Garr Anders - Minmatar
Garr Anders Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.06.14 15:01:00 - [78] Edited by: Garr Anders on 14/06/2007 14:59:48 double post Garr Anders - Minmatar
Vasiliyan The Flying Swan	Posted - 2007.06.14 15:07:00 - [79] Originally by: Kerfira The main problem has two parts: 1. Shooting POS after POS is intensely boring. 2. POS spamming is stupidly easy. You're not solving either!!! QFT. Also, maintaining constellation sov is going to require fuelling of HUNDREDS of towers - a majority of large towers in every system in the constellation! While at the same time it's no longer as easy to haul in sufficient quantities of fuel in by carrier. I'd like to see estimates for the number of daily freighter/carrier runs required to do this, along with the number of barge-hours required to keep that up and cost of NPC fuels.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.06.14 15:08:00 - [80] Originally by: Garr Anders Edited by: Garr Anders on 14/06/2007 15:00:12 Planets: The New Sovereignty Mechanic Originally by: Dr Aryandi ... As I said at the start this is not my idea, sorry I can't remember who originally suggested it, but I think it is an excellent one. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=530688 by Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Noluck Ned Goum, this time you managed to have a good idea. Actualy, it was Zarimax Mishka. I just typed it up in a more presentable manner(with premission). He posted it here a while ago, but it never really got seen. I hadnt given sovereignty holding mechanics much thought before he proposed it. PS Hi Goum :P
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.14 15:34:00 - [81] Originally by: Qual This will open UP 0.0. Holding const sov in more than a few contalations will take quite a lot of efford. True, but you can still hold de-facto sov over a constellation in the old way, by just holding sov in the station systems. In reality, I don't think much will change.... Originally by: Qual The simple fact that people can do hit and run attacks on the posses will force alliances to focus their defence forces more. Will it really? Attackers will need to form up a fleet, go into hostile territory, attack their pos (presumably taking losses). The defender can then come back during low-activity hours and repair the structures with a single carrier (or put up new ones). It's exactly the same disproportion as exist with pos spamming today. The non-spammer need to form up a capital fleet, and shoot the pos. The spammer can then come back during low-activity hours and put up another one with a single carrier..... See the similarity? The party actually willing to expose his fleet will have to organise stuff, and will usually be bored stiff. The other party can recover with minimal effort (just a few ISK and a carrier pilot). The party not willing to fight is given the easy way out! Originally by: Qual Invading the whole universe will become LOT harder a few months after Rev 2, let alone holding the whole universe. I see this resulting in alliances holding smaller areas, but defending them more, while keeping economic warfare on enimies going by keeping their constellation(s) under pressure. TBH, I don't see any big changes in 0.0 warfare from this. There'll of.c. be small changes in exactly how you do things, but apart from pos warfare being even more boring, I'm afraid not much will change.... The main reason for this is that pos (and structures) are generally not worth defending! They're relatively cheap (compared to risking ships to defend them), easy to replace if shot, so it's much simpler to just spam new ones than defend the old. Attacking a pos spammer: You either outspam, or spend endless boring hours. Defending from a pos spammer: You either outspam, or spend endless boring hours. This'll not change, just get worse...... EVE, the game where not fighting is the winning strategy!!! My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 15:45:00 - [82] Diagrams FTW Nice blog == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.06.14 17:03:00 - [83] I agree with a previous poster: while it will be harder to take territory from a dug in alliance in a constellation, that alliance is going to focus everything in one or two constellations. Having to have three stations in a constellation (max, 8 systems lets say) is fairly costly, esp. since most alliances spread their outposts out throughout a region. I say most reasonable alliances are going to hold only a handful of constellations. But, there's ALOT of stations already built. With enough time, I think most alliances are going to want to eventually hold every constellation that has a station in it. Will BoB or whoever owns old ASCN space just abandone a 00 station? ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.14 19:08:00 - [84] Edited by: Adam C on 14/06/2007 19:12:31 Well... Oh my god! You can tell by the amount of pages (3) that their is little support with sovereignty warfare(!) and the additions dont seem much more appealing. (cringe worthy in my opinion) I understand this added demension to 0.0 warfare is interesting from a developer standpoint to get this new feature out. However it seems mostly inclined with power players! This will turn days long battles of sovereignty into weeks. It will shift the current balance of pos>dread. (ie defense vs offense) Oh and too mention this is just a new thing for BOB to win at. (hehe had to put that in) You need to address the void in fun this will create and let players put warp disrupt bubbles in 0.4 and below. You need to address game mechanics this will further encourage capital blobfare and blobbiness in general something well and against CCP need for speed initative! Think very carefully PLEASE!
Reptile Minmatar The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2007.06.14 20:20:00 - [85] Godness, more POS spaming, Super Capitals en masse in a few weeks, I don't get the people who are cheering this change, I think its idiotic and only beneficial to a few power players and the alliances they run. The 'end game' is getting more and more idiotic with every release (since the introduction of capital ships)
Annapolis	Posted - 2007.06.14 20:23:00 - [86] I think with the new sytem, in addition there should be ways to prevent people from logging off within the areas you have SOV of. To prevent log in traps and other scenarios similar to this.
Serenity Steele Rearden Steele	Posted - 2007.06.14 21:01:00 - [87] Nice 2D map layout, think I've seen that somewhere before .. Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert - Sovereign Systems - Alliance Rank
Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 21:08:00 - [88] It's a nice system, but it doesn't remove the need for tons of towers, tons of ice, tons of manhours, and tons of dread siege cycles and that favors the huge, hulking alliances quite disproportionately. There's nothing wrong with being rewarded for having good logistics, but come on...there are tons of good suggestions in this thread for making POS warfare less annoying. Moving the offensive modules outside the shield is fine, but it's only a partial solution. Why not move them to planets? Or only POS at planets can claim sovereignty? It's not a problem since only one outpost can be anchored in a system...and the moons can still be used for moon mining/whatever, but they won't HAVE to be used...keep the 7 day timer, since that, much like a 'best of 7' playoff series, tends to favor the stronger team overall (which is fair - just because you outnumber the resident alliance one or two nights doesn't mean you deserve to wreck months of work)...but lose the spammage, unless you're going to hit the server with a magic wand and remove POS lag completely.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.06.14 21:15:00 - [89] any alliance recruiting forum alts? it all looks great and sounds well planned to me --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Abbadon Wrath Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.14 22:22:00 - [90] Is it just me, or does it look like the new system encourages POS spamming?

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