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Peace Within
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:14:00 -
[1]
I am rather new to EVE, but i have read alot of Stephen Hawking and i know alot about physics and I realized that during warp my frigate maxed out at 5.9 A/U per second, which i can assure you is faster than the speed of light. So if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i left in the first place? Part of the relativity is that travelling faster than the speed of light is impossible, but if accomplished the user would travel faster than the speed of time causing him to not age, and make his trip instantaneous. I do notice that the server time still progresses while i am in warp. Now i know if everyone had their own independent times this game would be really challenging and complicated but here would be an example of a realistic warp travel.
Miner A has no ore when he starts mining. He warps to the asteroid, mines the ore, and warps back. Both warps would send him back in time, causing him to get ore and return to the station before he even left to get ore. which means he would have had unlimited ore in the first place, meaning he would have no reason to go mining in the first place >.>
Just something i was thinking about while playing eve today, let me know what you guys think.
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Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:15:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Peace Within
Just something i was thinking about while playing eve today, let me know what you guys think.
Stop thinking, its a game :P
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Peace Within
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:16:00 -
[3]
Hah, I know, but wouldn't it be interesting?
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Samuel Beckett
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:18:00 -
[4]
I doubt Time Travel in EvE would be a good idea. 1 Great Northern War is enough. 
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Vana Gank
Gallente
Nosferatu Security Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:19:00 -
[5]
And as he returns to the station - he exits warp without the ore, and wonder what the hell is he there because he can't remember anything.
Now that would be annoying wouldnt it? :p
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Please adjust the map, please.
Im not clever enough to figure out which way to fly. |
Neon Ghost
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Peace Within
So if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i left in the first place?
You do, but this is compensated for by lag (I knew it had to be good for something).
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Peace Within
Now i know if everyone had their own independent times this game would be really challenging and complicated but here would be an example of a realistic warp travel.
Dude... your watch.
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WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED |
Peace Within
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:23:00 -
[8]
im saying if everyone had their own server time that was altered by the amount of warps they do
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Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Wylker on 13/06/2007 21:26:21
If you want a realistic answer, the fact that people ever mention "time travel" shows an ignorance of the theories of relativistic physics. In relativistic terms, time does not exist. What we refer to as time is simply our way of organizing events into an order that our brains can deal with. Time has no mass, no particles, no anything.
The concept of travelling through this nothing makes physicists giggle all the time, because of human fascination with the concept. Think of it as this: if I travel from east to west in the world, and manage to circle the globe in .00001 seconds, will I stumble across myself getting ready to leave because i've crossed 24 time zones? No, of course not. Time is simply a human explanation for distance and movement. Please remember that relativistic physics do not allow for travel faster than C, therefore most of your argument stops making sense. In general science fiction, it is assumed that FTL travel is accomplished through some other means than traditional accelleration.
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Hyldabrand
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:27:00 -
[10]
wow, slow general discussion day huh?
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iudex
Caldari
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:28:00 -
[11]
"travelling faster than the speed of light is impossible" has been proven wrong around 2 years ago. However, Einstein made this statement about waves, not particles, so his statement remains true. Scientist were able to accelerate photons (=particles) 2-3 times faster than light through "tunneling". Statements were made that almost instantaneous speed is possible (at the expense of signal strenght / energy loss) ... but currently thats only possible with photons, not with particles with mass, like electrons or even whole atoms.
But this mining thingy would never work out anyways, as it violates against the law of causality: the mining is "condicio sine qua non" for having the ore in your cargo, so even if the order in time is not linear, for every pice of ore there must be a time of mining accordingly, timetravel possible or not.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Peace Within
im saying if everyone had their own server time that was altered by the amount of warps they do
Stop! Just stop! People's heads are gonna explode. Say something calming now like, "h4x sploits" or something normal.
Anyway, how the heck could people meet up?
p1> Yo Roy, you still owe me 5mil isk. Meet me at CN station 5-4
p2> I did that yesterday, you never showed up.
p1> what?
p1> Oh right... can you like, warp backwards for a bit and meet me there?
p2> der.. no. It doesn't work like that. Even if I could warp backwards I'd still be going faster than the speed of light and you'd have to meet me last saturday
p2> which btw was before you lent me the money... so, yeah. let's do that! ;)
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WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED |
Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:33:00 -
[13]
As explained in star trek, and Eve's concept is similar IIRC, you cannot go faster than light, but space can do whatever the heck it wants. I think creating a bubble of expanding space in front and contracting in back gives speed so long as you can support the field and energy necessary to make it happen. It might be the other way around so don't take my word for it.
Eve creates a warp tunnel, which , I would assume is a tube of nothing ness which you can go as fast as you want through.
-
"The Mains Created the alts
They rebelled
They look...and feel...human
Some are programmed to think they are human
There are many alts.
And they have a plan."
- Forumstar Galactica |
Peace Within
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:34:00 -
[14]
lol well i guess that makes more sense, i do like the idea of not being able to meet up with someone though :P
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Hait
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:38:00 -
[15]
I love this!
Originally by: Peace Within
if accomplished the user would travel faster than the speed of time ....
And I thought breaking the speed of light was a tough cookie!
You may well have read Hawking, unfortunately (as demonstrated), that does not equate to knowledge.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:38:00 -
[16]
Well if we extend the OP's ideas then Tachyon Lasers should hit their target before they are fired.
That would make an excellent buff for Amarr ships...think I'll mail it to the Devs.
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JR Cash
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:39:00 -
[17]
I think I'll be warping back to before I opened this thread.
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coldplasma
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:43:00 -
[18]
Forget time travel, this game needs more of Newtons basic mechanical laws.
_________________
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Tkar vonBiggendorf
Gallente
MAG black strategic colition of nations
Hell Hounds
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:44:00 -
[19]
Don't you people know that the creation of the warp bubble negates the relativistic effects of FTL travel? :P
Besides, if you did arrive before you left, everyone would still be confused about whether they left the station on EVE time and arrived on Eastern time, or whether or not the trip would take an extra hour due to daylight savings....
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Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Neon Ghost
Originally by: Peace Within
So if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i left in the first place?
You do, but this is compensated for by lag (I knew it had to be good for something).
Winner
Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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Ixianus
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:45:00 -
[21]
We move through time at the speed of time, which translates to the speed of light in directional terms. And as such as you approach the speed of light, as in turning during acceleration energy is diverted from movement through time to movement through space.
Time travel I would imagine is possible, but as it is in Eve, were not really traveling faster than light as I understand it. Space is just being bent around to allow what appears to be faster than light travel, but its really sub light travel over a vastly stretched area of space.
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Xarax
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:54:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Xarax on 13/06/2007 21:53:11
When you warp, you are not traveling faster than the speed of light. You are bending, or ôwarpingö space-time around your ship. While inside the warp bubble, your ship travels from point A to point B at sub-light speeds, but the distance between the 2 points is considerably shorter than if you were traveling thru normal space-time. This is because you are traveling through space-time that has been warped. When you exit your warp bubble, space-time around your ship returns to normal. At no point have you actually traveled faster than the speed of light relative to the space immediately outside your ship.
So basically, traveling at sub-light speeds, whilst inside a warp bubble, gets you from point A to point B faster than a beam of light outside of the warp bubble can travel. Consequently, any light caught inside the warp bubble with you should be visible at your destination milliseconds before your ship is. This is why many sci-fi shows/movies have ships that are exiting warp preceded by a flash of light.
Move along, there is noting more to see here.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:54:00 -
[23]
A thread about relativistic physics? Totally IBDS \o/
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Kraven Kor
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.06.13 22:00:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Kraven Kor on 13/06/2007 21:59:26
Am I IBDS? Edit: I AM! Yay for me.
Anywho, the Warp Speed is explained by the "Warp Tunnel" - not in much a different way than the Warp Drives of Star Trek.
The warp tunnel actually bends space -- you are not flying faster than the speed of light, you are just taking a relativistic short-cut. The 5.9 AU/s speed would be your speed "to the observer."
They actually do make some (lame) attempts at explaining the science of EVE, but, ultimately, it's a fracking game ;)
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You're not what you are, you're just what you do!
So it ends with their butts and it starts with your shoe! - Awesome Car Fun Maker |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.13 22:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ixianus
Time travel I would imagine is possible, but as it is in Eve, were not really traveling faster than light as I understand it. Space is just being bent around to allow what appears to be faster than light travel, but its really sub light travel over a vastly stretched area of space.
I forget the physicist's name but he got so fed up with people asking him about time travel he decided once and for all to sit down and prove it is nonsense. Much to his surprise he found that there is nothing in the math of relativity (or anything else for that matter) that prohibits time travel. There have been a number of possible solutions put forward for a real time travel machine but the requirements to do so are so mind bogglingly difficult as to be a practical impossibility.
FWIW I argued with a physicist once about "warp drive" or using a "dimension door" (think like walking through a door and ending up light years away) would not get you into time travel. He insisted that if you beat a photon of light from Point A to Point B, no matter how you do it, you can create a temporal paradox.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.13 22:08:00 -
[26]
Warp Drive.
Equivalent "no warp" speed.
Enough said.
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New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
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Posted - 2007.06.13 22:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xarax
Edited by: Xarax on 13/06/2007 21:53:11
When you warp, you are not traveling faster than the speed of light. You are bending, or ôwarpingö space-time around your ship. While inside the warp bubble, your ship travels from point A to point B at sub-light speeds, but the distance between the 2 points is considerably shorter than if you were traveling thru normal space-time. This is because you are traveling through space-time that has been warped. When you exit your warp bubble, space-time around your ship returns to normal. At no point have you actually traveled faster than the speed of light relative to the space immediately outside your ship.
So basically, traveling at sub-light speeds, whilst inside a warp bubble, gets you from point A to point B faster than a beam of light outside of the warp bubble can travel. Consequently, any light caught inside the warp bubble with you should be visible at your destination milliseconds before your ship is. This is why many sci-fi shows/movies have ships that are exiting warp preceded by a flash of light.
Move along, there is noting more to see here.
All fine but the Sun with all its mass only bends space time by a tiny amount. To warp / bend space time as you state would take amount of energy. As i understand it. Could be wrong of course. Would not be the first time.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.13 22:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Peace Within
I am rather new to EVE, but i have read alot of Stephen Hawking and i know alot about physics and I realized that during warp my frigate maxed out at 5.9 A/U per second, which i can assure you is faster than the speed of light. So if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i left in the first place? Part of the relativity is that travelling faster than the speed of light is impossible, but if accomplished the user would travel faster than the speed of time causing him to not age, and make his trip instantaneous. I do notice that the server time still progresses while i am in warp. Now i know if everyone had their own independent times this game would be really challenging and complicated but here would be an example of a realistic warp travel.
Miner A has no ore when he starts mining. He warps to the asteroid, mines the ore, and warps back. Both warps would send him back in time, causing him to get ore and return to the station before he even left to get ore. which means he would have had unlimited ore in the first place, meaning he would have no reason to go mining in the first place >.>
Just something i was thinking about while playing eve today, let me know what you guys think.
No. You arrive faster than the photons that reflected off your ship arrive, but you are not two places at once. Your absolute position in time has not changed.
While in warp, you experience time at an altered rate, but you are still moving one instant forward, just like everyone else. Your perception of time flow is simply altered with respect to the non-accelerated frame of reference.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.13 22:18:00 -
[29]
The entire point of warp drive is to travel faster than light globally while traveling very slow locally, allowing FTL travel (or very fast travel in general) without relativistic effects.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.06.13 22:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Red Crown
As explained in star trek, and Eve's concept is similar IIRC, you cannot go faster than light, but space can do whatever the heck it wants. I think creating a bubble of expanding space in front and contracting in back gives speed so long as you can support the field and energy necessary to make it happen. It might be the other way around so don't take my word for it.
Eve creates a warp tunnel, which , I would assume is a tube of nothing ness which you can go as fast as you want through.
TEH SPACETRAVELZ R A SERIEZ OF TUBEZ!
Originally by: CCP kieron
If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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