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Piracy in a Vagabond

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Du Sytar	Posted - 2007.06.14 06:09:00 - [1] I've been pirating (on my main) for the past two years now. I'm one of those wannabes who keeps his sec high, only goes for targets that give good a good isk to sec loss ratio, and gets to play sheep around my fellow carebears. Even still, I'm pretty successful at it. Don't get the most kills, but I don't lose ships either. For another month, my ships are relatively slow. Gallente armor tanks stereotypes with big ol' blasters who get in range, fire, and smile. Its fun, but it gets old. Recently, a good friend with a Vagabond (and a heart of cold iron) has shown me the light. Speed looks fun, and it time for a change of pace. So, I'm training for a third races tech two cruisers, the Minmatar. I've got no experience with speedy ships, and a fetish for a high kill/death ratio. So before going out to screw my k/d ratio to hell flying a Stabber in PvP learning to fly a Vagabond I was hoping someone here would have some advice that might keep my head above water? Anybody got any tips for flying Stabbers, and Vagabonds (solo & small gangs, low sec & 0.0)? Common mistakes? Strange trips? Odd tidbits, or other crazy ideas? Perhaps a drunken story or rant? Please, roll out your e-peens, and impart your knowledge 'o great speeding pirates of doom. -~-~-~-~-~-~-Alt PosterBut does it really matter?
kill0rbunny Alpha-Hirogen	Posted - 2007.06.14 06:38:00 - [2] Hmm, not very difficult to explain: - Fit for speed - Stay out of webbing range - Stay away from heavy nos - If a huginn enters the system, get away as fast as you can. A stabber is a good way to start. Less resists, less fitting options, less damage, but the playing stile is very similar. I pew therefore I am.
Dano Katiria The Scope	Posted - 2007.06.14 06:40:00 - [3] Originally by: kill0rbunny - Stay out of webbing range - If a huginn enters the system, get away as fast as you can. QFT, also dont just aproach, i found some one who did that, i won in a rax vs his vaga Being nice is for ugly people - Falazi
PCaBoo Dirt Nap Squad FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 06:56:00 - [4] I didn't think it would be relevant, but flying an inty, really gives you a better grasp of how to fight with a stabber/vaga than anything else. It's not quite the same, but it really gives you a good idea of what to do and what not to do. Obviously getting close is a bad idea, but orbit distance and other such pertinent info becomes evident in style. ________________________________ Caldari's are the Chosen people!
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 07:12:00 - [5] Edited by: Noluck Ned on 14/06/2007 07:11:56 Ever since the stab nerf vagas are killable. I dont fly them myself but I fought them often in the past, the best advice has already been given: Stay out of web range and if the target has nos be aware of your cap level at all times. My most fun kills have been vagas who attack my Domi and after a round of heavy NOS/Nuets find themselves out of cap, out of speed and out of options. I used to carry a set of Vespa II's as standard just in case of vagabonds. A well skilled and experienced Vaga jockey is a dangerous thing, I once laughed out loud when a carrier we were ganking put his fighters on one of our vagas. He flew away at high speed with a trail of 10 fighters following him, it was a funny sight.
Du Sytar	Posted - 2007.06.14 07:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Noluck Ned Ever since the stab nerf vagas are killable. That's what should make them fun. ^_^ The extra speed would have been nice, but I think it would have killed your tracking, so you'd be fighting about the same speed. Ofcoarse, now you don't have as much speed to get away, but neither do Battleships so you still should be able to get away using one boost of your MWD to clear of you NOS/Disruptor range. Thanks for the advice so far. Is there anything else? Perhaps common mistakes that are easily overlooked? Or a past failure of a pilot who died in such a way that others may learn from his mistake? -~-~-~-~-~-~-Alt PosterBut does it really matter?
Entilzah Valen 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.14 07:41:00 - [7] Aside from fitting for speed you need to have good scanner skills and make your decisions on the fly. If you hesitate its very easy to die in one. Another thing is to always be moving when your not in perfect control of the situation. If you land next to something that has a web and a sensor booster theres a good chance you'll get webbed but inertia should carry you out.
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.06.14 08:05:00 - [8] PPL say about Hugins and rapiers being a nightmare in a Vaga but most other recons can be as well. Gallente ones reduce your locking distance down so much you have to more or less keep in web range and if they have another ship with them it can be nasty. Caldari ones will just more or less jam you 100% of the time and the Amarr ones will suck you dry so fast you'll be relying on your base speed rather than your MWD. Basicly know when to retreat, PPL may call you a coward etc but so what? Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo
MadMerlin kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.06.14 10:59:00 - [9] Download the movies Minmatard 1-5 if you want to learn to fly vagabond/stabber very good movies.
Laxon	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:06:00 - [10] Learn to kite (if you don't know allready). Stabber is a great place to start and tbh someone is far less likely to run if they see a stabber on the scanner as opposed to seeing a vagabond... Maybe even stick some falloff rigs on the stabber, sounds daft but it's a close middleground between the two ships wthout forking out for the vaga hull. I would only conisder flying the vaga after I was steadily getting kills in a stabber and achieving a good kill:death ratio.
Du Sytar	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:31:00 - [11] Edited by: Du Sytar on 14/06/2007 11:30:51 Forgive me for being abit newish, but what is 'kite'? Originally by: MadMerlin Download the movies Minmatard 1-5 if you want to learn to fly vagabond/stabber very good movies. Minmatard 1 (Link to EVE Forums) Minmatard 2 (Link to EVE Forums) Minmatard 3 (Link to EVE Forums) Minmatard 4 (Link to EVE Forums) Minmatard 5 (Link to Daily Motion, a YouTube style site) -~-~-~-~-~-~-Alt PosterBut does it really matter?
Laxon	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:35:00 - [12] Edited by: Laxon on 14/06/2007 11:37:43 Originally by: Du Sytar Forgive me for being abit newish, but what is 'kite'? Basicly it is using your MWD to maintain range (flying the opponent like a kite ) With T2 auto's and barrage ammo your engagement range stretches outside web range. The stabber is damn fast so you can pulse the MWD and never let the opponent web you, as a large majority of pvp fits are designed to work inside web range the only thing you really have to worry about are drones, which are easy to take down when the opponent is not close enough to scoop+relaunch. Hope that helped edit: Also missles can get a bit hairy, but 9 times out of 10 a missle heavy ship will not have a webber. The great thing about having a fast ship and not been webbed means if it all goes **** up you can make a run for it.
Gavin Darklighter	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:43:00 - [13] The minmatard vids are great for showing how to fly a stabber, but the way he flys and the way someone should fly for a high KDR are quite different. Its alot more fun to fly like him but expect to take losses; it happens when you aren't afraid of engaging when the enemy might have the advantage.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Entilzah Valen Aside from fitting for speed you need to have good scanner skills and make your decisions on the fly. If you hesitate its very easy to die in one. Another thing is to always be moving when your not in perfect control of the situation. If you land next to something that has a web and a sensor booster theres a good chance you'll get webbed but inertia should carry you out. Depending if you already engaged the propulsion mod. If you turn MWD on after web is in effect your inertia will already be down. Oh and imo, best to warp at 20-30 to belt/object, better yet approach and scramble then fly out hoping its not dual-web. ---
Du Sytar	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Laxon Edited by: Laxon on 14/06/2007 11:37:43 Originally by: Du Sytar Forgive me for being abit newish, but what is 'kite'? Basicly it is using your MWD to maintain range (flying the opponent like a kite ) With T2 auto's and barrage ammo your engagement range stretches outside web range. The stabber is damn fast so you can pulse the MWD and never let the opponent web you, as a large majority of pvp fits are designed to work inside web range the only thing you really have to worry about are drones, which are easy to take down when the opponent is not close enough to scoop+relaunch. Hope that helped edit: Also missles can get a bit hairy, but 9 times out of 10 a missle heavy ship will not have a webber. The great thing about having a fast ship and not been webbed means if it all goes **** up you can make a run for it. Kite is where it'll get hairy. I've got no experience there. Definitely something I need to figure out. I have a feeling that'll be the only hard part. Thanks for the advice, Laxon. Anybody got any good storys that can be learned from, or perhaps just a really good kill worth bragging about? Any knowledge of uncommon tactics & uses for a Vagabond? -~-~-~-~-~-~-Alt PosterBut does it really matter?
moobag	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:56:00 - [16] Originally by: kill0rbunny Hmm, not very difficult to explain: - Fit for speed - Stay out of webbing range - Stay away from heavy nos - If a huginn enters the system, get away as fast as you can. A stabber is a good way to start. Less resists, less fitting options, less damage, but the playing stile is very similar. what they said
Dionisius Gallente Fallen Lords	Posted - 2007.06.14 12:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Dano Katiria Originally by: kill0rbunny - Stay out of webbing range - If a huginn enters the system, get away as fast as you can. QFT, also dont just aproach, i found some one who did that, i won in a rax vs his vaga And next you'll confess that the other guy had civilian gatling guns and shield boosters fitted right? _______________________ What we have here is total lack of respect for the law...
Nines Tslaruk Minmatar North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.14 15:34:00 - [18] Edited by: Nines Tslaruk on 14/06/2007 15:33:03 Unless you have tens of billions of isk to waste, fly a stabber first (since you said you have no experience flying speed ships); it will hurt a lot less to lose. Several easy mistakes/tips: -not mwding away when your victim's friends arrive (this goes under "valuing your ship more than the kill"), you can get webbed before you can react, especially if there is a huginn/rapier (which should be able to move at least 3.3 km/s, depending on faction mods or implants) -orbiting incoming ceptors rather than mwding away from them (lowers transversal, dual 180s, 22 km falloff, ceptor with sig radius of a house=pop) -always have a planet or some other object you can warp to selected (and don't be afraid to run) -never fight a bs (esp domi or phoon) without 1) backup (ewar especially) 2) knowing their exact setup (if they are a noob and have small guns fitted) 3) killing their (web) drones; on a side note, if you notice your cap going down when they start nossing you, burn away from them immediately (you should be able to get out of scram range on one cycle unless you got webbed) -get rid of the gallente pvp style (charge in guns blazing, tank running, cap injector churning); you will die many times in a vaga if you fight that way -ecm drones as well as a med nos (for tacklers) can save you On a final note, if you have the isk and have flown the vaga for a while, it's worth it to invest some isk in it (since it will benefit most other minmatar ships you might choose to fly). High-grade snakes are a bit of a stretch, but low-grade snakes are worth it. Domination/shadow-serpentis mwds help with cap management. If you do invest in that, spend some time maxing out navigation skills, falloff/tracking skills, and cap skills as it will help a lot to capitalize on your fancy faction gear. ------------------- NFF Recruitment NFF Killboard
LoOnY PaRk Black Nexus Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.14 16:57:00 - [19] Edited by: LoOnY PaRk on 14/06/2007 17:01:57 Edited by: LoOnY PaRk on 14/06/2007 16:58:51 the faction MWD seem alil expensive for what bit better they are than there much cheaper T2 versions, would it not be better to invest in a DB or Domi Warp Disrupter so you can orbit at 28km+ out of heavy nos range? [using Barrage ammo which hits over 30km i hear?] Also may i ask what the real differance is between using 220mm vulcan II and Dual 180mm II ? are some better for something than others? if so what kinds of things? Another thing i thought of.. should you always use drones? or only when you really need them...EXM drones im thinkin
Rudy Metallo Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:40:00 - [20] Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 14/06/2007 18:39:12 Originally by: Dionisius Originally by: Dano Katiria Originally by: kill0rbunny - Stay out of webbing range - If a huginn enters the system, get away as fast as you can. QFT, also dont just aproach, i found some one who did that, i won in a rax vs his vaga And next you'll confess that the other guy had civilian gatling guns and shield boosters fitted right? I've beaten a zealot solo in a rax. 5 ECM drones ftw. Couple of lucky jams and you're in the clear. Still came out with 30% structure though. :lol: Say what?
0101101101	Posted - 2007.06.14 21:16:00 - [21] Barrage is your best friend and stay out of web range. Oh and sensor damps and frigs are your enemy.
Nines Tslaruk Minmatar North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.15 02:00:00 - [22] Edited by: Nines Tslaruk on 15/06/2007 01:59:38 Originally by: LoOnY PaRk the faction MWD seem alil expensive for what bit better they are than there much cheaper T2 versions, would it not be better to invest in a DB or Domi Warp Disrupter so you can orbit at 28km+ out of heavy nos range? [using Barrage ammo which hits over 30km i hear?] You can hit at 30 km (though falloff with hac 5 is about 22 km), sure, but you will hit for significantly less damage and miss often at that range (and won't be able to take down anything with a tank). Most vaga combat is in the 16-20 km range. So a faction disruptor helps, but only on rare occasions where they would be able to warp in that second it takes you to travel from 30 km to 24 km. As for fighting out of heavy nos range, don't fight ships with heavy nos without support (you won't be able to break their tanks anyways, unless they are complete noobs). The reason you would invest in a faction mwd is to save on cap (which does help in some cases), though only if you can afford to replace it. T2 mwd works just fine. Originally by: LoOnY PaRk Also may i ask what the real differance is between using 220mm vulcan II and Dual 180mm II ? are some better for something than others? if so what kinds of things? Dual 180s do a bit less damage than 220s, but have much better tracking. For solo, I'd use dual 180s so you can fend off tacklers easily, though 220s might be a good idea for a gang with tacklers/huginn/rapier so you can help with dps more. Originally by: LoOnY PaRk Another thing i thought of.. should you always use drones? or only when you really need them...EXM drones im thinkin I carry ecm drones, and use them when I'm fighting one or a couple targets (since they are slower than ogres when returning to drone bay). If you're up against a larger gang and picking off small targets and moving around, it wouldn't be worth wasting the drones (not because of cost, but because you wasted a lifesaver). ------------------- NFF Recruitment NFF Killboard
Du Sytar	Posted - 2007.06.15 02:23:00 - [23] Originally by: 0101101101 Barrage is your best friend and stay out of web range. Oh and sensor damps and frigs are your enemy. I understand the sensor damp part, but why frigates? It seems like they'd be your best friend. Easy to pop (assuming you can get tracking), and slower then you normally in the short term. -~-~-~-~-~-~-Alt PosterBut does it really matter?
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.15 02:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Du Sytar Minmatard 5 (Link to Daily Motion, a YouTube style site) Interesting... how'd that get there? Also it says the video is located in France? -
Du Sytar	Posted - 2007.06.15 02:58:00 - [25] Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: Du Sytar Minmatard 5 (Link to Daily Motion, a YouTube style site) Interesting... how'd that get there? Also it says the video is located in France? No idea. Thats just what I came up with when I Googled Minmatard. Its easyer then downloading, so I linked it. -~-~-~-~-~-~-Alt PosterBut does it really matter?
Kalazar Amarr Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.15 16:11:00 - [26] The best advice I can give you is Don't die. Achieve this by not being idiotic, knowing what you can and can't take on and not being afraid to be afraid and bailing if things go pearshaped. Considering you're a gallente pilot I'll say this - Do not try and tank the stabber/vaga, stick a couple of LSE II's on there as a buffer for if you're taking a couple of hits (which tbh unless you're fighting a missile ship you shouldn't). Also, run the hell away from recons, they will kick your ass or negate you as a threat and you'll be there looking like a plonker. (Huginn/Rapier = You be webbed, what're you gonna do now?; Arazu/Lachesis = Where did my lock range go? Why can't I warp out?; Rook/Falcon = JamJamJamJam; Curse = it can go nearly as fast as you and Nos you from ages away; Pilgrim = either it uncloaks right next to you (you shoulda been moving anyways) when you're just screwed, imagine the effects of a curse, with a web, if not, it's still gonna tracking disrupt you to the point where you couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo. ----------------------------------------------
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.15 21:08:00 - [27] Saw the ingame mail :o I think this thread has more than enough info now though, so I probably can't really add much. One thing (if it hasn't been mentioned yet), don't try to warp out in the opposite direction with your MWD on, it will take forever to turn around. Meaning if you are burning out, always burn aligned towards a celestial object so you can instawarp. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event

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