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Sealteamx
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Posted - 2007.06.14 07:54:00 -
[1]
Ok, so i keep hearing about how CCP is trying to make lowsec more populated, and i had an idea.
At current, empire space is (basically) big green happy friendly safe space, surrounded by slightly meaner space, surrounded by big angry 'rip-your-face-off' space. The problem is that the carebear population can simply stay in .5 and above space the whole time to go about their business.
So: My basic idea; add a lot more low sec within empire space. I mean low sec between regions, low sec that forces traders and industrialists to take risks to get their goods, that forces players to buy the cheapest of an item that's in their area, rather like pirates are limited currently, rather than just go to jita or another trade hub for the cheapest on available.
This would mean that pirates have more game, trading and industry rewards taking risks by traveling through low sec to take your cheaply purchased goods to more expensive areas. Escorts would be required, ect.
I hope this would help to break up the centralization of the population, bring more prosperity to pirates and add more risk versus reward to traders and industrialists, all simply with the addition of more low-sec space within empire, without alternate routes between regions.
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Tartarus Vile
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Posted - 2007.06.14 08:09:00 -
[2]
Rich suggestion. /sign
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.14 08:59:00 -
[3]
Translation = "I am a total incompetent as a pirate, so I want the 2 day old players as target, and a lot of people so I can get someone even if I don't know how to use a little organization, a webber and a warp disruptor."
And then you call the others carebeear. You want to change all EVE to suit your playstile and your incompetence as a pirate.
Go play a solo game where you will always win.
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Kakita Jalaan
Viriette Commerce and Holding
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Posted - 2007.06.14 08:59:00 -
[4]
Forcing people is always bad. Will just make them quit if overdone. Also, who tells you that those empire carebears are not getting exactly the game experience they want?
And from the global population distribution, do you really think the carebears are a minority that should be subjected to the whims of the obviously much much larger pvp population?
There's areas for PVP, there's areas for (mostly) non-PVP. People choose what they want. Reducing the amount of high sec will just lead to even more dense clustering in those areas. ______________ Join the Family |
Hunlight Faithus
Ravenclaw Manufacturing Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:17:00 -
[5]
Look enough with the make carebears go to low sec, they can play the game how they want so stfu. people can play how they want if that means not going to low sec fine by me it dosn't bother me in the slightest why should u be telling people how to play and game they pay for so just leave them alone.
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Shin Mao
Caldari AFC Ultima Rati0
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:29:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Shin Mao on 14/06/2007 10:28:49 Maybe, essential idea is not bringing noobs in lowsec for quick extermination, but about making adventures and business here realy profitable. Pirates I guess must be important part of low security systems enviroment, like a wolfs or hyaenas in nature. ___________________________ Quantus tremor est futurus, quando judex est venturus, cuncta stricte discussurus! |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:15:00 -
[7]
The idiocy of this idea would only be exceeded by the spectacular nature of its failure, if implemented.
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Scrutineer
Space Cadets
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:45:00 -
[8]
Three quotes from the player guide:
1) ôEVE caters to many different play styles, ranging from the hard core combat commander to the patient miner ...... no matter what type of player you are, there is a place for you in EVE, even if you decide to carve it out yourself.ö
2) ôThe high security areas are a safe place to start, until you are ready to venture into the more aggressive areas of the game.ö
3) ôRemain in your empire's space until you are willing to risk what you can afford to lose in the more aggressive areas of space.ö
Some people just ain't ready or willing to go to 0.0, because they have found fun and value in high-sec. That's cool, and is not a betrayal of the game: it's a PLUS.
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Finlander09
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:56:00 -
[9]
Long as people use NBSI people wont get in low sec.
They are pirates.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
EP0CH
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:58:00 -
[10]
Simple way to populate lowsec? More stations, more research slots, more agents, more rewards - only available in 0.4 and below. Much as I'd like to "force" folks to go there, only temptation will bring them there. -- Fix Caldari | Fix Rigs |
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:22:00 -
[11]
and no ammount of temtation will bring them to lowsec as long as there is a 25% chanse of being ganked. not even a 10% chanse is low enough for most players
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Deadlines are when TomB says "get this done by such-and-such a date or I'll set you on fire".
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JanSVK
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Posted - 2007.06.14 13:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Fenren and no ammount of temtation will bring them to lowsec as long as there is a 25% chanse of being ganked. not even a 10% chanse is low enough for most players
It is so simple. Carebears arent going into low-sec because it is not worth considering the riks. If it would be worth the risk ppl would go. Mission: Now you can be probed out anywhere, ok it can take a while but mission runner doesnt get a warning if pirate is incoming and rats are for sure fixed on him. Mission runner has almost no chance vs PVPer just because of the fittings. Mining in low sec: mining barge = paper tank popping in seconds same goes for T1 hauler, Hulk 160 mil after invetion dropped prices from 500 mil + fitting for sure primary for all pirates around.
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 13:50:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 14/06/2007 13:49:59
Originally by: Fenren and no ammount of temtation will bring them to lowsec as long as there is a 25% chanse of being ganked. not even a 10% chanse is low enough for most players
Travel and work in a gang, works great for detering pirates as most will not even consider attacking if they dont outnumber them.
Mission rewards (LP, standings, ect) can also now be split between i believe 5 members so its now possible to do missions in a gang (would also make sense to only put the new lvl 5 and 6 missions in low sec - 0.0).
It has to be worth the work however, right now it is definitly not worth the work and anyone that wants to put forth the effort just moves to 0.0 where that effort means alot.
------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 14:40:00 -
[14]
Hiya Seal. Ever played this game? Ever read a Dev blog? Ever been involved in any kind of business? A: Eve is designed to be fun for a wide variety of people. Not just people who want to PvP. B: Kali 2 is bringing more and more incentive to go to low sec. L5 missions that can only be found in low sec, Making PvE more like PvP so that a ratting/mission boat isn't as easy a target for PvPers, etc... C: When you try to force your customers into something without regard to what they actually want, you end up looking like Ford and GM. That is, hemorrhaging money so fast your empty wallet catches fire.
My two iskies. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Fryke
Caldari CRESCENT Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kakita Jalaan Reducing the amount of high sec will just lead to even more dense clustering in those areas.
I would have to agree on this... Tho perhaps, less lag in low sec may become the deal breaker? :P
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Strikeclone
The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Translation = "I am a total incompetent as a pirate, so I want the 2 day old players as target, and a lot of people so I can get someone even if I don't know how to use a little organization, a webber and a warp disruptor."
And then you call the others carebeear. You want to change all EVE to suit your playstile and your incompetence as a pirate.
Go play a solo game where you will always win.
Well said.
I object to the term carebear, there are many thousands of eve pilots who play eve the way they want too, the way they are entitled to do so. And guess what they often do it in the company of others, thus negating your ignorant "carebear" title.
Eve is not a PVP game, Eve simply is, what people do and make of it is up to them.
If someone enjoys mining and trading in empire, whats the harm in it.
If someone enjoys the fruits of their mission running and now has a nice pimped out rig with implants to match that they choose not to risk to the mindless counterstrike in space mentaility of the mentally challenged so called pirate majority then where is teh harm.
Like the man says go play elite or battlefield 2 you can kill all you want all day long.
Recruitment |
Praesus Lecti
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:44:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Praesus Lecti on 14/06/2007 20:43:53 stupid forums keep dropping my log in every 5 seconds.
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Praesus Lecti
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sealteamx Ok, so i keep hearing about how CCP is trying to make lowsec more populated, and i had an idea.
At current, empire space is (basically) big green happy friendly safe space, surrounded by slightly meaner space, surrounded by big angry 'rip-your-face-off' space. The problem is that the carebear population can simply stay in .5 and above space the whole time to go about their business.
So: My basic idea; add a lot more low sec within empire space. I mean low sec between regions, low sec that forces traders and industrialists to take risks to get their goods, that forces players to buy the cheapest of an item that's in their area, rather like pirates are limited currently, rather than just go to jita or another trade hub for the cheapest on available.
This would mean that pirates have more game, trading and industry rewards taking risks by traveling through low sec to take your cheaply purchased goods to more expensive areas. Escorts would be required, ect.
I hope this would help to break up the centralization of the population, bring more prosperity to pirates and add more risk versus reward to traders and industrialists, all simply with the addition of more low-sec space within empire, without alternate routes between regions.
Although the idea has merit, the major problems it has is your targets will usually be newbies who would be absolutely unable to defend themselves and the mechanics of the gate jump gives the gate camper a huge advantage.
If travel from region to region required passing through at least one low sec system, you can set up an alt at the exit of the safe system to monitor ships reaching the gate so that you can pick/choose who to pounce on when they load into the low sec system on the other side. They are effectively blindsided. You have all the advance warning, they have none. Even if they had friends jump ahead, you can just wait for an easier target.
this game is already too focused on camping the gates, the more we can get away from it the better.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:20:00 -
[19]
As I miss a lot of roleplaying incentive and actual impact of storyline/background on gameplay, I kinda like the idea of low sec systems between Gallente and Caldari regions, or Amarr and Minmatar sovereignty space. It actually makes sense, but it must not have all too negative consequences. Perhaps more junctions could alleviate choke point camping/ganking. However, I am absolutely against forcing players to do anything. Perhaps you should stick to the low sec idea and get rid of all the forcing people stuff in your suggestion. That way it will look less like a 'pirate wants more targets whine'.
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. - |
Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.15 02:37:00 -
[20]
just read the thread in my sig... _________________________________________________
For more players and action in lowsec
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.15 03:45:00 -
[21]
Yep, this and many similar ideas is rooted in a player's desire to win fights without a serious risk of losing fights.
If you want to fight, there are lots of places you can go to fight people and groups of people who are willing to engage in PvP with you. Do you go there?
No, you do not, because those people are more powerful fighters than you are, and they will destroy your ship, call you a noob and then destroy your capsule, costing you isk and gaining you nothing.
That exact reasoning is what keeps non-combat players out of low-security space. Even a solo interceptor is more than a match for a mining barge or industrial ship, and the huge population of opportunistic murderers in low-sec that are equipped with at least that much destructive power, matched against the extravagant cost of ship loss compared to the humbly increased opportunity for profit in low-sec makes it a gamble not worth taking.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
EP0CH
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Posted - 2007.06.15 03:47:00 -
[22]
Quote: I object to the term carebear [...] Eve is not a PVP game
Well you would, and yes it is.
Did you ever stop to ask yourself why people call you a carebear? It's not a simple derogatory term. It's a message to you, and you've totally failed to receive it. Didn't you ever see that film as a kid? What did the Care Bears do to beat Professor Coldheart? That's right - it's a tip on how to beat the pirates of this game.
This means it's a very inaccurate term, because as of yet I'm yet to see a Care Bear who's "got it" (hint: "Care Bear Stare"?) and acted accordingly. It's for this very reason that the OP is trying to offer a solution to a know problem: Empire overpopulation and lowsec underpopulation.
However I digress. The only way to bring people into the less populated regions and ease the load on the empire processes is to give them a good reason to. You'll never persuade the die-hard cowards out of empire, but with incentives you can persuade the more adventurous player - and in the long run, they'll thank you.
-- Fix Caldari | Fix Rigs |
Tanaka Nari
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Posted - 2007.06.15 06:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Tanaka Nari on 15/06/2007 06:13:32 As far as risk versus reward goes, the rewards for the average player are just too unspectacular in low sec. Granted, there is 'endgame' content that can only be accessed in low sec/0.0, like outposts, capital ships, sovereignty.
But just take th rewards that can be had in low sec:
Mining Great, the low sec belt ores are worth less than Scordite due to the stupid Pyerite prices. So you do exploration and find a belt with Gneiss, Dark Ochre, Crokite (if you're lucky). Big deal, Scordite is still worth enough so that it doesn't really pay off to mine in low sec (since the right people probe you down as soon as they see a mining barge on the directional scanner). Hulk on Scordite > Covetor on Gneiss/DO. And no, I sure as hell won't bring my Hulk to low sec to get it ganked.
Missions Same agents, slightly higher LP rewards. As a tradeoff, you can expect people to try and probe you down (possibly with alts), so that they can enter you mission and gank you with an Arazu plus some other ships (= no chance to even fight back). Mission failed, ship dead, need to go shopping all over the universe for new stuff. One such event sets you back weeks in terms of the money you're making from missions in low sec over the money you're making in high sec.
PVP Glorious PVP... not. PVP in low sec is gank or run, not much fun involved to be honest. People run from superior numbers (understandable), but often also from even numbers, or from slightly smaller numbers if they feel they're not prepared for it. The main skill involved here is to trick someone into attacking your bait ship, so you can gank him badly afterwards.
Most of my charakters live in low sec permanently, but it's sure as hell starting to *beep* me off. There's just so little point in hanging out there. Risk versus reward, my ass.
edit: Maybe it's a sort of self-stabilizing problem. The lack of people leads to the 'hunter' players focusing on the few 'prey' players, leading to a high mortaility rate, which deters more prey from entering low sec. Assuming there was a huge rise in prey population, maybe we would get to a different steady state... but the more likely possibility is that the hunters are just going to rise in numbers as well.
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.15 06:27:00 -
[24]
That's a good observation. The predator/prey relationship doesn't apply in EvE because the "predators" can't starve to death. They just rat or run missions, but they never go away, because there's noplace for them to go. They can't go to high-sec, thanks to their sec status, and they're psychologically unfit for 0.0, so they mosey around low-sec, subsisting on a diet of NPCs and forum whines, until some brave fool tries to play EvE within range of their directional scanner.
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Teiichi
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Posted - 2007.06.15 06:29:00 -
[25]
well I think almost Everyone missed the point I saw not to reduce the high sec just redistribute it like a demilitarized zone this will improve the economy sense less people will jet around making next to nothing sense all the prices are about the same it will now involve RISK you know the thing wall street uses to make real money.
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.06.15 10:52:00 -
[26]
This will only run people off from eve, it is not a good idea. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs |
Kotorr Vepar
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Posted - 2007.06.15 19:02:00 -
[27]
Well said, Tanaka Nari and Reggie Stoneloader.
I agree with one thing the OP said, expanding low sec space, or at least having some kind of neutral security space. I'll get to that at the end though.
As many have said, the risk doesn't justify the reward in low sec. There are fewer rewards for combat and non-combat characters in low sec than in high sec.
It seems some people forget that outlaws are not meant to have low-risk lives. Most or all pirates were hunted down and killed throughout history. It should be a very high-risk and very high-reward occupation. It's not that way now. Pirates appear to be as risk-averse as carebears. Some of it is by choice. Some of it is not.
There simply aren't enough risks to cause a pirate to stop being a pirate. There are plenty of risks for an industrialist, mission-runner, or other player to cause them not to operate in low sec. Like Reggie Stoneloader said, pirates cannot starve. Until they can, they'll continue to drive anyone in low sec out. The solution lies partially with them.
Part of it can be helped by some alterations on how the navies of the Empires operate in low sec. If managed in the right way, it could discourage gate camping, which is largely the problem with low sec. The more people leave low sec, the more gate camps are required, which causes even more people to leave. Until low security gate camping is discouraged, the low sec population will continue to dwindle.
The other part is allowing pirates to have adequate and sensible tools for their profession, such as some kind of reputation rating and the ability to disengage and transfer active modules from your ship to the pirate ship for ransom in a separate kind of ransom transaction window.
Lastly, I really believe an open environment that allows lengthy and sustained warp travel across regions would benefit all of Eve. Sustained warp travel across region allows for pursuit by hostiles and/or navies. If you're traveling across a region at some fairly constant velocity and a pirate spots you, they could pursue and overtake you. Such open environments would be far more positive in terms of reward vs. risk for everyone. I discuss those environments in more detail in the link in my signature. _____
For enhanced PVP, trade, new ships, and true regional warfare, check out the revised Into the void |
Trustus
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.15 19:38:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Trustus on 15/06/2007 19:38:47 Empire acess:
* Only for rookies. * Tech I items only. * Tech I ships only. * Missions up to lvl2. * Trade with tech I items and ships. * It should not be as huge as it is.
lowsec access.
* Lvl3 missions and better * Tech II market. * Tech II ships. * Named Items, like ts, dark blood and so on. * Complex up to 6/10.
I have probably forgot something but the main idea is that you should NOT be in empire with all the rookies if you are a high skill player.
the game is more intressted if you have something to loose and this will not lead to have 80 ships around a station like it is at this point in 4-4 station in jita.
this will also lead that bigger transport ships will need some support to do their work. I see way to many freighters just moving around without no1 able to do nothing.
This maybe not sound like a good idea if you are a uber carebear but i would say that in this game the are more pvp:ers then traders so why should the game provide a huge area for this guys without anything to loose.
I understand this view is more pvp orientated and is my own only. But i must say that having a more pvp orientated game will benefit even the carebear trader. without us pvp:ers they would not have anything to trade or demand on items and ships.
/T
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shady trader
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:18:00 -
[29]
The reason people stay out of low sec is the pirates. they have hunted the non pirate low sec population/ non 0.0 population to near extintion due to over hunting for sport. Then they try to get protected hunting grounds (high sec) effectively closed in responce to force game into there area so they can hunt them to extintion again. They need to reduce their hunting and let the population recover naturally otherwise it will just happen agian by people switching to 0.0 alliances who provide security to there members, relocating the majority of production there were pirates or there alts are kill on site. It a well known problem and the solution is consavation
From a RP perspective they is no reason that the empire would force loyal law up standing citizans into unclaimed space, they would send security with them if they were expanding the core base of operations (i.e. changing the sec status of systems up)
It all comes down to risk vs reward, the pirates who are know screaming that there are not sufficent targets forget one important fact they are the main risk and most people think it is to high.
If CCP want more people in low sec they need to ajust the risk vs reward, either by making it a lot better any easier for non pirates or neif piracy to restore balance.
I think I speak for a lot of the people who like to relax, make some isk and chat to friends in game in the evening. If they are forced into low sec, they would log in less (not worth the risk), after all who wants to send every evening on the edge of your seat just in case some one decides that they want to have some fun by destroying all my hard work. Personally if CCP decided to ban my perfered play style I would probably suppend some if not all my accounts as I would not injoy having to worry about who was in the same system evey minute I am logged it, some times I low sec other times I want a quite night while I unwind after work.
The Main problem with low sec and wantabe pirates, the non pirate has little or now chose as to if they want to fight (if they attach the losses sec status) so the pirates control the system and player can only hope to scare of pirate with numbers since a smart pirate will scan your config to see if he can take you, or kill them with mass fire power if he is stupid.
CCP created High sec and have not naif'ed NPC crops (as some people have requested so that they have more targets to shoot at) for the same reason, they want to support a wide range of play styles and not force the player base in to one play style live PVP.
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