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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:25:00 -
[1]
of late, there is much whining and moaning about cloaks on these forums. Most of these boil down to:
whether to make or not to make cloaked ships scannable.
But i believe there is a much better way of nerfing AFK cloakers. I have nothing against the ratter who cloaks when hostiles enter the system, but i find it unfair that you can go to the shops for a few hours, with a cloaked ship in a safespot, and find his/her ship still intact when you come back.
So the nerf should only really affect AFK cloakers. This is my proposed method:
remove the autorepeat feature from the cloak: then, after, say 10 minutes, the cloak deactivates. If you are in front of the computer, you just reactivate quickly, but if you are afk, you are suddenly exposed! the cloak can be immediatly deactivated at any given time, like a mining laser (you dont have to wait 10 mins, it is immediate)
I think this feature would benefit, and maybe the covert ops cloak autorepeats, as it is meant to be very stealthy.
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk  - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:29:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Alski on 14/06/2007 09:29:37
I like this idea 
edit: it would have to have a countdown timer so we know when its going to deactivate though, and thats something thats missing from many modules, includeing mining lasers etc.
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:39:00 -
[3]
Here is my idea to fix afk cloakers.
Make afk cloaking a bannable offence.
First time you are caught doing it, a warning. The next time the banstick comes out, for a week. If you are stupid enough to do it again, the banstick is for ever.
It wouldn't take a GM 30 seconds to determine if the cloaker is AFK.
Cause you see with your method, all an afk cloaker would have to do is stick his cloak key down. Or if he is a goon, use a client side hack to perform the same task.
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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:39:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Alski
Edited by: Alski on 14/06/2007 09:29:37
I like this idea
edit: it would have to have a countdown timer so we know when its going to deactivate though, and thats something thats missing from many modules, includeing mining lasers etc.
yes, that would be useful, as it allows better planning.
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches |
Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Here is my idea to fix afk cloakers.
Make afk cloaking a bannable offence.
First time you are caught doing it, a warning. The next time the banstick comes out, for a week. If you are stupid enough to do it again, the banstick is for ever.
It wouldn't take a GM 30 seconds to determine if the cloaker is AFK.
Cause you see with your method, all an afk cloaker would have to do is stick his cloak key down. Or if he is a goon, use a client side hack to perform the same task.
maybe, to combat the papareweight autorepeat, make their be a popup box to reactivate, so its not just pressing f1.
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*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches |
Outro
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zalathar
I have nothing against the ratter who cloaks when hostiles enter the system
I do. Let me scan them please!
--
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Gojyu
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:43:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gojyu on 14/06/2007 09:42:42
Sorry about the noob question, but I don't understand what possible use afk cloaking could provide? What benefit does it give the player that it should be (as one poster suggested) a bannable offense?
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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:49:00 -
[8]
AFK cloakers limit people operations, as you dont know if they are afk, or just waiting to swoop down on a unsuspecting player. If you are managing an alliance, then they might be spying on you.
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches |
Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 09:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Outro
Originally by: Zalathar
I have nothing against the ratter who cloaks when hostiles enter the system
I do. Let me scan them please!
well, if you time correctly/distract them, you might catch them between cycles. It would be hard, but look at it as a challenge! 
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches |
THEGREAT LOBO
Infestation.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:30:00 -
[10]
this is stupid. you have said it your self. THEY ARE AFK! AND CLOAKED! what are they going to do ? whats the problem, oh noes... i can't rat because there is someone in the system not at his computer and invisible 
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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:34:00 -
[11]
I have had no problem with AFK cloakers, i am just trying to propose another solution to a problem disscussed on these forums. I am proposing a solution that does not hurt evryone.
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches |
DarkMatter
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:34:00 -
[12]
I honestly don't see how you can make cloaked ships scannable...
That's pretty asinine if you ask me...
If they do make them scannable, and the main reason is for afk cloakers, make the scan take 30 minutes to complete...
Building the homestead
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DarkMatter
I honestly don't see how you can make cloaked ships scannable...
That's pretty asinine if you ask me...
They were scannable in Star Trek. Like, practically the inventor of the "cloaking device". One little tachyon burst or plasma flare lit them up like a Christmas tree...
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Mud Pandemonium
Minmatar
Trainwreck INC.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:25:00 -
[14]
In Star Trek they detected neutrino emissions usually.
Anyways, this is a horrible idea.
If I'm sitting cloaked watching someones gate camp the last thing I need is my ship popping up on someones overview even if only for a second.
They would all launch drones and move in different directions, you do know anything within 2km will break your cloak, right?
Stop trying to hurt people who actually use cloaks for their ship roles just because you get paranoid when someone goes AFK in your system.
We had our words, a common spat.
So I kissed him upside the cranium with an aluminum baseball bat.
My name is Mud. |
max bygraves
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:43:00 -
[15]
The best way to deal with afk cloakers is to laugh at those that cry on the forums because "Some guy is cloaked in our system all day and night"
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Glumpumpkin
House Elf Liberation Front
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:52:00 -
[16]
Just what I want to read- macrocloaker complaint threads.
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Drizit
Amarr
Lonely out here
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:55:00 -
[17]
I think the decloak should be random times from 5 minutes up to 15 minutes. A little popup should appear 5 seconds before you decloak flashing in the top left of the screen to prevent it interfering with what you are doing. Pressing OK keeps the cloak active, ignoring it decloaks you. AFK cloakers would not click on OK but anyone who's actively playing would see it and react rather than get seen.
Making cloaks scannable is lame, ratters who cloak when hostiles appear in local would normally dock but if there's no station in the system, that's a bit hard to do. If it's a fairly new player who's belt ratting and player rats enter the system, cloaking isn't going to help them. Knowing the player isn't docked would make the player rats even more determined to scan them down. It will be just another way to persuade new players that lowsec is to be avoided at all costs and that logging is the only way to avoid death.
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Gabba
The Three Hundred
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:56:00 -
[18]
Just give the portrait in local and AFK tag after 30 min or so.
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Lord Shadowhand
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:57:00 -
[19]
hmmm bans for using cloaks???? - why not make shooting each other a bannable offence too?
If you cloak, you cant do anything - stop crying about people watching you in local - you deserve to die if you are ratting. If you are building a fleet up - so what if someone sees you - grow up
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Adariana
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:59:00 -
[20]
too many damned modal windows as it stands.
It ain't broke.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:12:00 -
[21]
Tell me "exactly" how someone who is afk, poses any kind of threat or concern.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:12:00 -
[22]
"Buhu, I cant gank the invisible man."
There¦s nothing wrong with afk cloakers, whiner.
Ship lovers click here |
Dave White
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:13:00 -
[23]
Sounds like a good idea to me, however I'm sure people will find ways around this such as creating macros for it.
CORA. Killboard
Personal Killboard |
Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zalathar
AFK cloakers limit people operations, as you dont know if they are afk, or just waiting to swoop down on a unsuspecting player. If you are managing an alliance, then they might be spying on you.
spys = so what.
1 person swooping on a group of players = so what.
1 person swooping on 1 other player = only concern if their in a recon, if their in a tinfoil hull'd cvops frigate then = so what.
1 man in a cvops/recon afk, is hardly a voice from concern, and tbh if a large group of people go running and screaming because "hes out there and could kill us all" need a good rethink of common sense.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
BIZZAROSTORMY
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:20:00 -
[25]
Zalthar you can go to the shops too, just log off in mid warp.
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Ralara
Caldari
Exanimo Inc
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:42:00 -
[26]
GRR no the the best way is to log off people who are AFK for more than 10 minutes (or 15, whatever).
Problem solved.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ralara
GRR no the the best way is to log off people who are AFK for more than 10 minutes (or 15, whatever).
Problem solved.
Just like in any other online game...wait.... eve isnt like others.
Ship lovers click here |
Miz Cenuij
OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2007.06.14 13:37:00 -
[28]
please keep in ind that some of us are unable to dock our ships, but RL does call us away from the keyboard from time to time. Im all for a time limit on cloaks, but would suggest it not be less than 20 mins, so we can lose agro and set the pc to shut down at that time if RL calls us away. Else we will have to commit to a minimum play time whenever we log on and go agro.
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
Christari Zuborov
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Posted - 2007.06.14 14:28:00 -
[29]
If you want to go afk when cloaked, then train covops and purchase the t2 covops cloaking device.
My understanding is that the cloaking nerf only apply's to non-covop ships. i.e. BS's using cloaks to hide in an asteroid belt when someone enters local.
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Kehmor
Caldari
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.06.14 14:44:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Here is my idea to fix afk cloakers.
Make afk cloaking a bannable offence.
First time you are caught doing it, a warning. The next time the banstick comes out, for a week. If you are stupid enough to do it again, the banstick is for ever.
It wouldn't take a GM 30 seconds to determine if the cloaker is AFK.
Cause you see with your method, all an afk cloaker would have to do is stick his cloak key down. Or if he is a goon, use a client side hack to perform the same task.
I go afk in non-cloaked ships in space aswell, should that be bannable?
The Movement is recruiting! |
Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.14 14:58:00 -
[31]
I'm gonna make another attempt to be reasonable here... and I'm doing it in the hopes that those who think AFK Cloakers are not a problem will at least try to understand the issues.
1> Ratters that cloak: If someone is ratting in your space, I understand that you'd like a way to remove them. But realistically, you have the ability to shut them down by hanging out in the system. They will eventually run out of ammo. They can't loot all the cans or they will fill up in minutes. So while it is annoying and a violation of your space, you have counters or limits on their choice of play.
2> Large ships cloaking: While some logic supports the idea that a large ship should be easy to find (and therefore can't cloak), just as much precedent exists for ONLY large ships being able to do it. Regardless, we currently have no modules that are limited to shiptypes - everything is based on whether you can fit it or not.
3> Covert Ops should be exempt from any Nerf: I agree that Covert Ops are the ships designed for stealth. However, any solution which excludes Covert Ops is no solution at all. While it may address a few of the cloak issues, it does not address them all. Covert Ops can Warp while cloaked - be happy with that.
4> AFK Cloakers: This is the one issue that people seem to be extremely polarized on. Most of the nay-sayers seem to think that someone AFK does not pose a problem at all. This is incorrect - monsterously so. I recognize that you may have a strong opinion formed already, but please try to envision this scenario:
You are in 0.0, with a hostile alliance nearby. From time to time each of you forms gangs and attacks the other. When combat time is on, scouts and gangs provide a measure of security. But what about the other 95% of the time? You'd like to mine or rat to replace that BS you just lost. You need to make money so that you can play PVP.
Now imagine that there is an AFK cloaker in system. He's there 23/7, in a safe spot so far out that the Sun looks like another star. Sometimes he's at the keyboard - most of the time he's not. If he is there, and you've got a 10-man Hulk gang exposed in a belt, he can tell his alliance exactly where and what you got and they'll be here in 5 minutes. The problem is, you never know if he's AFK and you can't find him by any means.
After a few billion isk worth of Hulks get blown up, you're not gonna get anyone to mine anymore. After enough Ratters get wasted that form of income is gone too. Your alliance is being slowly bled to death by one guy's alt that he looks at a few times a day.
If you think this is farfetched, won't happen, or has a counter to it then you are dreaming. This is exactly what RA did to KOS in the C-J area. RA was down to one remaining 0.0 station, and many were predicting their death. I was based out of the newly-liberated N7- station 5 jumps from C-J, and RA had one or two AFK cloakers in system 23/7 for weeks. There was nothing we could do - if we had the firepower to challenge the RA fleets that came by then we would have been camping them into the C-J system. Most times we tried to mine or rat, a sufficient gang of BS's would be there in minutes. The entire system became useless, because one AFK alt *MIGHT* be watching.
I consider this type of activity an exploit because there was no way we could counter it. I prefer for ALL cloaks to be non-repeating, instead of the other nerfs which all have loopholes.
If you have a civilized response to the AFK cloaker problem, I'd love to hear it. But please try to understand that AFK Cloakers are indeed a problem. Just give me some counter to it and I'll be happy.
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PathetiQ
Gallente
The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2007.06.14 15:16:00 -
[32]
You people are weird, cloak mean to be...cloak No nerf needed, not another nerf cloak post needed, please close this!
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Serial Driller
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Posted - 2007.06.14 15:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
...Now imagine that there is an AFK cloaker in system. He's there 23/7, in a safe spot so far out that the Sun looks like another star. Sometimes he's at the keyboard - most of the time he's not.
Okay. Civilized response. Here goes...
How do you know he's there at all? Answer: Because he appears in local chat, correct? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of stealth? In RL, or in any logical world, if a ship were to cloak, do you honestly believe they'd be stupid enough to break radio silence (i.e., be detectable through communications)? The fact that you are able to detect a player at all is already damaging to the concept of stealth. Does that mean I think covert ops should be godly? Not at all. There should be anti-covert ops measures. For example, maybe be able to form a detection grid (using a new sentry drone?) around a POS, or some other counter measure. Still, seeing them in local is just ********.
Originally by: K'reemy G'udness
I think the kind of person who's going to do well at eve is the autodidact. This game requires self teaching, and what that doesn't cover, pain will do the rest.
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.14 15:53:00 -
[34]
Thank You. That was indeed civilized.
I support some sort of counter to cloaks. The counter should not have exceptions for Covert Ops or any other ship type. Having a cloak timer or Heat or no-repeat feature seems a rather easy way to deal with it and not nerf legimmate active players.
Logging people out of Eve after 30 min just might help the lag as well.
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Serial Driller
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:16:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Serial Driller on 14/06/2007 16:18:00
Originally by: Princess Jodi
Thank You. That was indeed civilized.
I support some sort of counter to cloaks. The counter should not have exceptions for Covert Ops or any other ship type. Having a cloak timer or Heat or no-repeat feature seems a rather easy way to deal with it and not nerf legimmate active players.
Logging people out of Eve after 30 min just might help the lag as well.
I'll concede to automatic log off after 30 minutes. Since I like to base most of my statements on the side of logic, then I admit that there is no logical reason for an inactive player to remain in the game if he isn't actually playing. In that area, I'm with you.
The method of adding this should include something more than just "hit this button to stay logged on" or it can be macro'ed. Maybe after 30 minutes of inactivity (not auto-piloting through systems, etc.), a dialog window pops up asking the player to input a random 5 digit code displayed in that same dialog window.
Originally by: K'reemy G'udness
I think the kind of person who's going to do well at eve is the autodidact. This game requires self teaching, and what that doesn't cover, pain will do the rest.
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BubbaZanetti
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:00:00 -
[36]
Automatic log off after 30 minutes of inactivity makes complete sense. Totally support.
But since this is also a thread about people using local as an intelligence tool, I have to also say, remove local. Especially with the coming removal of all fixed position belts, local needs to go away now.
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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:46:00 -
[37]
to all your trollers on this thread:
this is by no means a whine, I have lost nothing to cloaked ships, i am not bitter, and i am not complaining.
I am trying to propose a solution to a subject which is much debated on these forums.
The timer should be fixed, and there should be a popup to reactivate, wich appears 20 seconds before you would uncloak.
the cloak does not garanty health, wealth and happiness to the ratter, as they cant do ANYTHING. Wait and kill.
but it means that you cant park a ship in hostile territory and limit their operations, as they dont know if the cloaked ship is providing intel to its alliance.
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches
gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge |
Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:48:00 -
[38]
Originally by: BubbaZanetti
Automatic log off after 30 minutes of inactivity makes complete sense. Totally support.
But since this is also a thread about people using local as an intelligence tool, I have to also say, remove local. Especially with the coming removal of all fixed position belts, local needs to go away now.
Yes, autolog is a similar solution, and perhaps easier to implement, and harder to avoid using a macro.
But *gasps* that would make EvE like all the other MMORPGs!
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches
gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge |
Nicho Void
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Im all for a time limit on cloaks, but would suggest it not be less than 20 mins, so we can lose agro and set the pc to shut down at that time if RL calls us away. Else we will have to commit to a minimum play time whenever we log on and go agro.
Isn't that the point though? If you aggro, you had best be sure you can defend yourself for the next 15mins. Your suggestion seems like a nice way to grief some poor bastard, then hide cloaked until the timer runs out. 
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Zalathar
I am trying to propose a solution to a subject which is much debated on these forums.
Solution to what problem?
Originally by: Zalathar
The timer should be fixed,
A fix means there is a problem somewhere. I dont see a problem so there is no need for a fix.
Originally by: Zalathar
but it means that you cant park a ship in hostile territory and limit their operations, as they dont know if the cloaked ship is providing intel to its alliance.
Buhu. So there¦s a ship you cant find nor gank? Who cares?
Ship lovers click here |
Cpt Branko
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:13:00 -
[41]
Meep, someone could just ignore auto-logoff easily, by making either a macro, or more simply, wedging a key in / whatever, so the player seems constantly active.
Removing local together with making cloaks scannable would be very interesting, but I can't say i'm all for it. Possibly it is not the best solution. Anyway, local in low-sec nerfs piracy, though, since I know when I'm doing something in low-sec, i check local to find out if there's any known pirates in system (and I know most of them in the system i'm typically in) and I know wether to dock, or just go about my business, or safespot, or get the hell out.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:22:00 -
[42]
You are forcing non pvp players into pvp just so you can score kills.
@Jodi
I understand that a cloaked ship means a thread to mining/ratting operations but there is no need to change cloak mechanics. Maybe just disable scanning in everything but a ship with a cov ops cloak.
I said it before and I say it again: Give eve an afk timer so ppl that are afk for 30 mins(?) log out to the char screen. Hell, even wow has it and it does work. Shame on you, devs.
Ship lovers click here |
Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:24:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: Zalathar
I am trying to propose a solution to a subject which is much debated on these forums.
Solution to what problem?
Originally by: Zalathar
The timer should be fixed,
A fix means there is a problem somewhere. I dont see a problem so there is no need for a fix.
Originally by: Zalathar
but it means that you cant park a ship in hostile territory and limit their operations, as they dont know if the cloaked ship is providing intel to its alliance.
Buhu. So there¦s a ship you cant find nor gank? Who cares?
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches
gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge |
Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
If you have a civilized response to the AFK cloaker problem, I'd love to hear it. But please try to understand that AFK Cloakers are indeed a problem. Just give me some counter to it and I'll be happy.
Counter - Put your own cloaked ship in your enemy space... then they can have the same cost as you.
Personally, I think Cloaks have enough limits as it is... further limits will just make them about useless... and as with all attempts like this, any change that affects those players doing what folks find bad (afk cloaking in this case) will also end up affecting a player who is not (spy in your space looking to cause you problems or gain intel)
Even I, a Carebear from Empire Space, can understand the issues you point out Princess Jodi, but as I have been told so many times, Life in eve is harsh.
None of us is as dumb as all of us...
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Kraven Kor
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:32:00 -
[45]
SIGNED
-----
You're not what you are, you're just what you do!
So it ends with their butts and it starts with your shoe! - Awesome Car Fun Maker |
Christari Zuborov
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:16:00 -
[46]
In one of these threads soon, I believe I'm going to compile a list of those I believe have never flown a covops ship. I'll post that list and ask the individuals in said thread to respond.
In every cloaking thread that I've read so far, I think have seen maybe 2 people that fly covops ships - the rest are a bunch cloaking BS ratters.
Mari Onette -
"Massive firepower, total stealth. Pick one
You don't get to have both, that screws up game balance."
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BoBoZoBo
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:50:00 -
[47]
I still dobnt see how you can prove the difference between an AFK cloaker and a cloaker who just feels like ignoring you to **** you off or one who may be on 2 accounts.
Untill you can do that.. all this BS is speculation.
=========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9 |
Sydonis
Caldari
Xoth Inc
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:19:00 -
[48]
OK, question - how do you know that he's actually AFK all the time?
I've stood 12-hour watches at a gate before now during long ops and trust me, I hate the idea of a 30-minute inactivity timer... why? Because most of a cov-ops pilot's life is sitting there getting bored and occasionally changing vector to stay in sight of the gate or POS or whatever else they're assigned to. Not to mention they *may* actually want to go and eat at some point... (also, do you count typing in channels as "activity"? If so, the macros guys are going to use that anyhow in a private convo between them probably to make it harder to detect - one pulse every 25 minutes would probably do it). :(
The point is, a cov-ops frigate is good for two things - one is hiding the other is scanning. It needs the hiding to do the probing. It needs its prey to be used to the fact that it's around so they stop logging off and start to act normally. This is the way of the covert pilot.
If you make covert ops ships probeable, you'll end up with no covert-ops pilots in the game except the wannabes who use alts to fly them. The serious cov-ops pilots, like myself, will simply look for a ship that can actually shoot back - right now, a locked cov-ops is a dead cov-ops. It even takes around 30 seconds to kill a pod, guys...
If you want security in 0.0 mining ops, take an escort and post pickets a few jumps out like anyone else (oooh... shock, horror, you actually might need the very cov-ops pilots you're trying to cripple).
Sorry for the sarcastic tone, but anyone that says that cov-ops need to be nerfed is obviously wearing a tinfoil hat that's a few sizes too small. Now, on the other hand, Recons are a different matter - an afk recon you can nerf if you want - they can hold their own in a fight to a degree and are larger, so can take a bit of punishment, but cov-ops frigates need all the help they can get.
And lastly, non-coverts really do need to be nerfed. Nothing annoys a cov-ops pilot more than having the ratting apoc you flew 7 or 8 jumps to find just log off or cloak as soon as you arrive. My solution? Have all cloaks probe-prone, but have each assigned a value. This value, combined with the sig radius of the ship, will provide the likelyhood of the ship to be found. Yes, I do include the cov-ops cloak in this, but it should give such a high ECCM rating as to be near-impossible to find. A cloaked Apoc would hence be an easy target to find when compared to a cloaked interceptor (pretty low risk).
Two other measures I'd like to see are a bomb for the new bomb launchers and interdictor launchers that would disable a cloak inside that blast radius (for one cycle - just long enough for an alert inty to lock him) and an increased time delay for non-cov-ops cloaks - if they want a decent lock time, let them train for it.
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Cpt Branko
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:28:00 -
[49]
Sydonis, that and the ability to mess up the AFK timer (via macro or jamming a key down) means that it's a no-brainer it won't help. You probably gave the best and most balanced idea around, so far.
Your sig bloody wins, though ;)
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Chris Stormrider
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:36:00 -
[50]
just remove local, for crying out loud...
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Sydonis
Caldari
Xoth Inc
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:40:00 -
[51]
I'd sooner they didn't tbh... I got some nice intel off the IAC guys during our last campaign over there... and they didn't seem to notice me in local - or assumed I was afk.
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Ryo Jang
Central Defiance
Terror In The System
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:09:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Xtro 2
Tell me "exactly" how someone who is afk, poses any kind of threat or concern.
obviously you havent had to deal with armies of chinese isk farmers in your sovreign systems, collecting all the dread guristas and officer spawns, and warping/cloaking when someone enters the system. they are extremely hard to catch if they know what theyre doing.
my solution is for ships without cloak bonuses to have to use fuel to keep the cloak active, and increase the fuel usage based on ship size.
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Gemmi Onyc
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:18:00 -
[53]
Countdown timer for EVE modules would be a simple feature that you could have on or off in the options/
Just have the module shade slightly darker and tick round in a circle like a clock on the module as it's cycle progress's.
As in command and conquer building an item style etc that loads of games have used to represent time on an icon.
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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.15 06:00:00 -
[54]
if there is a logoff timer, a player should not be able to deactivate it.
The problem witha timer is tha it is too easy to counter with macros.
I dont have much expierence with macros, but could you nake the logoff timer only reset with physical input (click of mouse or single keyboard stroke (no permanent ones, to combat the paperweights).
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches
gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge |
Alakazam
Bob The Builder
Breidablik
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Posted - 2007.06.15 06:17:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Zalathar
AFK cloakers limit people operations, as you dont know if they are afk, or just waiting to swoop down on a unsuspecting player. If you are managing an alliance, then they might be spying on you.
and how exactly is this different from afk docked at station?
there is already a thread about this somewhere...
but I think no autorepeat on all cloaks except the cov-ops type t2
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Dread Operative
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.06.15 06:31:00 -
[56]
Every module needs some way to show how much time is left on its activation. Possibly a colored ring that circles the icon, instead of a green glow.
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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Alakazam
Originally by: Zalathar
AFK cloakers limit people operations, as you dont know if they are afk, or just waiting to swoop down on a unsuspecting player. If you are managing an alliance, then they might be spying on you.
and how exactly is this different from afk docked at station?
there is already a thread about this somewhere...
but I think no autorepeat on all cloaks except the cov-ops type t2
because in a station, you cant use the directional scanner, and most 0.0 systems dont actually have stations. thats why.
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches
gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge |
Kale Kold
Lensmen
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:56:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Zalathar
AFK cloakers limit people operations, as you dont know if they are afk, or just waiting to swoop down on a unsuspecting player. If you are managing an alliance, then they might be spying on you.
But isn't that the whole point of a cloak?
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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:43:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Zalathar
AFK cloakers limit people operations, as you dont know if they are afk, or just waiting to swoop down on a unsuspecting player. If you are managing an alliance, then they might be spying on you.
But isn't that the whole point of a cloak?
yes, but you dont know if they are going to swoop, or just afk, and limiting operations...
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches
gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge |
R3dSh1ft
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.06.15 09:00:00 -
[60]
make a cloaking minigame, with sliders, nobs and dials that are used to adjust the harmonics of the ship. only a small adjustement every few minutes is required, but something that a macro would not be able to perform. then you are guaranteed a person cannot be afk, at least if they do go afk then after a few failed adjustments, they decloak.
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DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine |
Zikka
The Establishment
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Posted - 2007.06.15 11:08:00 -
[61]
The only counter to cloaks that I have thought about and might think about supporting is one that involved a lot of work.
For example if you had sov 2 in a system then a special scanning structure at a POS that took 10 minutes to do a scan but gave you a 0km fix on all cloaked ships in the system at the end of that scan.
That lets you defend your critical systems from cloakers, but at the same time lets cloakers move around to evade it and move to another system if they want to cloak afk as sov 2 (or could even require 3) will not exist in every system.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.06.15 12:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Ryo Jang
Originally by: Xtro 2
Tell me "exactly" how someone who is afk, poses any kind of threat or concern.
obviously you havent had to deal with armies of chinese isk farmers in your sovreign systems, collecting all the dread guristas and officer spawns, and warping/cloaking when someone enters the system. they are extremely hard to catch if they know what theyre doing.
my solution is for ships without cloak bonuses to have to use fuel to keep the cloak active, and increase the fuel usage based on ship size.
Then perhaps if your so concerned that the cloak has such a massive effect, what would happen if you yourself sat in the system with them cloaked up, see it works both ways, i doubt theyd go farming as much with you cloaked in-system, and if they got on with it and your in a recon, then go nuts and kill em.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Martyr 01
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.15 12:48:00 -
[63]
More scrambling npc's please CCP
Cheers
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Kale Kold
Lensmen
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Posted - 2007.06.15 13:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Zalathar
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Zalathar
AFK cloakers limit people operations, as you dont know if they are afk, or just waiting to swoop down on a unsuspecting player. If you are managing an alliance, then they might be spying on you.
But isn't that the whole point of a cloak?
yes, but you dont know if they are going to swoop, or just afk, and limiting operations...
Again, isn't that the whole point of a cloak. Psi-ops anyone?
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Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.06.15 15:51:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Zikka
The only counter to cloaks that I have thought about and might think about supporting is one that involved a lot of work.
For example if you had sov 2 in a system then a special scanning structure at a POS that took 10 minutes to do a scan but gave you a 0km fix on all cloaked ships in the system at the end of that scan.
That lets you defend your critical systems from cloakers, but at the same time lets cloakers move around to evade it and move to another system if they want to cloak afk as sov 2 (or could even require 3) will not exist in every system.
i have been thinking of that for a while, and whatever way i turn, i like it. It allows alliances to keep their prime territory safe, but the frontier would be harder to police.
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches
gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge
Is this a sig-jack I see before me? - Tim |
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