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Is log-on trick legal?

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Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:54:00 - [1] I did a search on this topic but didn't find anything on it. I apologize if it's a repost. Happened to me last night. a hostile in local, engaged outside the station. Then suddenly the local jumped to about 12, everyone of them was right next to me. I lagged and next thing I go boom. I asked around and there was no sighting of those 11 ships from nearby system. I might be wrong though. But it seems that they all logged of by the station and as soon as someone aggro they log back on. If this is not an exploit, good job, I got no complaints about it. But I was wondering if this is generally ok to do, very commonplace, or do people petition on it? cheers
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:55:00 - [2] It's not an exploit, but it is very very lame --- We are Recruiting!
Xtreem Gallente Quechua Industries	Posted - 2007.06.14 13:27:00 - [3] honestly id petion it just for being lame, the more people that complain about it and the more they see it in there petition boxes the more likly such a lame tactic will get made an exploit! which it should IMO
Easy Target Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.14 16:00:00 - [4] AFAIK it isnt an exploit, but it isnt in the spirit of the game. It isnt an exploit because it isnt really enforcable, you cant control people logging on in the same way you cant control people logging off ----------------------------------------------- No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be --------------------
xXSnUgGlEsXx	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:45:00 - [5] I personally dont like the log off scheme, becuase well take yesterday for example, i jumped(i live in the south) from one 0.0 sys to another because i was being locked on by a covert ops and had to jump through because local blobed with 15 people(keep in mind im flying a t2 fitted abaddon). i jump through to the next system. hit cloak, and loose my connection, giving the hostile force adiquite time to jam me and pop me. I very much dislike this but, hey, its a loophole in the game.
Baka Lakadaka	Posted - 2007.06.15 02:25:00 - [6] Definitely Lame - if people have to resort to this to get a kill it's pretty sad. Cheers Baka ______________________ Have a Skill in training every second of every day and never let your bank balance sink below your skill points.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.15 08:34:00 - [7] Recently BOB lost a Mothership to this exact tactic. Further back in EVE history(less stable servers ftl) RA famously scored a significant victory by logging in a whole gang of capital ships on top of the LV cap fleet who were seiging one of their towers in c-j(IIRC) This caused many LV dreads to crash or otherwise lag out and they were subsequently probed out and destroyed and the ones still in seige mode just sat there and died. This was a serious turning point in the war and LV never managed to bring such a large number of caps to bear on RA again until many months later, by which time it was too late.
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.15 09:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Noluck Ned Recently BOB lost a Mothership to this exact tactic. Further back in EVE history(less stable servers ftl) RA famously scored a significant victory by logging in a whole gang of capital ships on top of the LV cap fleet who were seiging one of their towers in c-j(IIRC) This caused many LV dreads to crash or otherwise lag out and they were subsequently probed out and destroyed and the ones still in seige mode just sat there and died. This was a serious turning point in the war and LV never managed to bring such a large number of caps to bear on RA again until many months later, by which time it was too late. wow, that really sucks. I play this game for the pleasure of it. But when people pull lame ****s like that, it just defeats the purpose of this game. shame.
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.06.15 11:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko I play this game for the pleasure of it. But when people pull lame ****s like that, it just defeats the purpose of this game. shame. That's the reason I never went to 0.0 for an extended period of time - stuff like this seems to be the norm more than the exception. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
hangnoose Caldari DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.15 15:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Noluck Ned Recently BOB lost a Mothership to this exact tactic. Read the story behind it, it wasn't a log in trap. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=531315 Well they did log in, but it was right after downtime... so you can't really classify that as a log in trap. Besides king leonidas never set up an exit out cyno, so log in trap or not he was not going anywhere =P

Stan Smith	Posted - 2007.06.15 21:02:00 - [11] it's a real jerk move, but you want to make it an exploit for people to log on? it's not honourable, but we probably cant stop it
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.15 21:10:00 - [12] well, if u make ships stay immobile (warp drive disabled but can use mwd, etc) at the random point they warped out to, when they log back on, for 2 minutes or so, like how they are when they logged off (you stay in random space for couple min as logoffsky)- when people do not log off at a friendly bubble, then problem's solved. I know there would be people complaining about how they are disconnected by server. But really, this kind of accidents happen less often than deliberate log-on tricksters. This **** is done on a regular basis nowadays in 0.0
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.06.16 11:46:00 - [13] I'd petition it, personally. 12 people logging on at the same time is going to be visible in the server logs, and it CAN be enforced, via the GMs giving warning and so forth. In my ideal universe, you'd only be able to log out in a station, but the shortage of stations in some parts of the universe means that ideal is impossible. Recruitment FAQ
Creepin	Posted - 2007.06.16 15:27:00 - [14] Originally by: BluOrange I'd petition it, personally. 12 people logging on at the same time is going to be visible in the server logs, and it CAN be enforced, via the GMs giving warning and so forth. However lame this tactics could be, I fail to see how logging into a game when and because of a reason a player chose to could be considered as an exploit.
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.06.17 11:20:00 - [15] 'exploit' is something that the system allows, but which is against the spirit of the game. A logon trap is definitely within what the system allows, but it doesn't seem very much 'within the spirit'. So I'd ask a GM through official channels if it's an exploit, rather than asking here. Recruitment FAQ
Okapir	Posted - 2007.06.17 15:41:00 - [16] Interesting issue because it is an expoit... though this could be what the game is about? I have lost countless ships to players who have ambushed me, in what ever guise, all seemingly unfair, I've been tricked, stolen from, trapped, cheated (often confused) and all condoned by the game designers. I would go so far as to suggest that even the auto-mining thing is fair, an exploit but not far removed from a gate camp (philosophically). So it promotes the bullying mentality of the game player, (whatever floats your boat) doesn't bother me. Game design problem, not a player problem IMHO. wtf Okapir
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.17 17:32:00 - [17] Just got a response from GM for the petition. He says log on or off is not an exploit even when done to give someone a tactical advantage. So I guess I will see this trick pulled a lot in the future.
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:50:00 - [18] I honestly don't see why this should be an exploit. If you see local instantly jump 12 players, you should know that either a gang just warped in or this log on trick has happened. Either way, you should be thinkin about either docking or getting in a gang. Even if they log on on top of you, they still have to warp from their log off spot back to you. So you still had time. I see no reason why this would be an exploit. It's not too different than a group of BS snipers getting in system and cloaking 120km or whatever from station, decloaking, and pwning everything.
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:17:00 - [19] Originally by: pandymen I honestly don't see why this should be an exploit. If you see local instantly jump 12 players, you should know that either a gang just warped in or this log on trick has happened. Either way, you should be thinkin about either docking or getting in a gang. Even if they log on on top of you, they still have to warp from their log off spot back to you. So you still had time. I see no reason why this would be an exploit. It's not too different than a group of BS snipers getting in system and cloaking 120km or whatever from station, decloaking, and pwning everything. The fact that it can be countered doesn't make it 'not an exploit'. And, assuming that the OP had been tackled, 'you still had time' is a pretty meaningless thing to say. A thing is an exploit if it is an abuse of game mechanics to establish an unfair advantage. Then again, if CCP started actually investigating this stuff, they'd have to do something about the logoffski as well. Recruitment FAQ
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.19 08:27:00 - [20] Originally by: pandymen I honestly don't see why this should be an exploit. If you see local instantly jump 12 players, you should know that either a gang just warped in or this log on trick has happened. Either way, you should be thinkin about either docking or getting in a gang. Even if they log on on top of you, they still have to warp from their log off spot back to you. So you still had time. I see no reason why this would be an exploit. It's not too different than a group of BS snipers getting in system and cloaking 120km or whatever from station, decloaking, and pwning everything. it takes over 30sec before u r allowed to dock after aggro. and if you are bumped when they are on their way in, which is what happens when 12 people log in next to you, you can forget it.

pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.06.19 10:04:00 - [21] Edited by: pandymen on 19/06/2007 10:03:28 Wow, its late...I didn't really see what happened entirely...soooo You engage a target outside station. His buddies log on all at once. Yup, not an exploit. People go into HQ systems all the time with mid sized fleets and log off. That way, they put everyone in the system on edge for a while. Don't really know when they'll be back. It's your job to keep track of when that happens and watch out for it. Sure, they may have gotten you, but I would hope that you guys managed to gank quite a few of them seeing as how they were outside a station. Before you label it an exploit...you really do have to make an argument as to why it is one.
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.19 10:38:00 - [22] Edited by: Taguchi Hiroko on 19/06/2007 10:39:40 Edited by: Taguchi Hiroko on 19/06/2007 10:37:19 Originally by: pandymen Edited by: pandymen on 19/06/2007 10:03:28 Wow, its late...I didn't really see what happened entirely...soooo You engage a target outside station. His buddies log on all at once. Yup, not an exploit. People go into HQ systems all the time with mid sized fleets and log off. That way, they put everyone in the system on edge for a while. Don't really know when they'll be back. It's your job to keep track of when that happens and watch out for it. Sure, they may have gotten you, but I would hope that you guys managed to gank quite a few of them seeing as how they were outside a station. Before you label it an exploit...you really do have to make an argument as to why it is one. argument was made, by others who posted here too. It's not a coincidence that everyone here except you thinks its very very lame. where do you live? Empire? have this pulled on you a couple times and see if you'd say the same again.
WA Dragon	Posted - 2007.06.19 14:19:00 - [23] I think its a question of balance you have to ask your self is EVE online fairly balanced or is it tipped in the favor of would be griefers who know the rules too well, and simply get away with blatant evil. Just being the hapless victim is not enough in EVE to get justice. Seems to me you have to leave your morals and any shreads of honor you have at the door on your way in. Each day I wonder what moral lessons are being learnt in eve by the younger players.
Ciaphas Loken	Posted - 2007.06.19 17:07:00 - [24] You can do the same with a cloaking device, big deal.
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.06.19 17:33:00 - [25] Edited by: pandymen on 19/06/2007 17:32:41 Originally by: Ciaphas Loken You can do the same with a cloaking device, big deal. Well, no you can't. With a cloaking device, people would show up in local, and people would know better than to venture alone anywhere. Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Edited by: Taguchi Hiroko on 19/06/2007 10:39:40 Edited by: Taguchi Hiroko on 19/06/2007 10:37:19 argument was made, by others who posted here too. It's not a coincidence that everyone here except you thinks its very very lame. where do you live? Empire? have this pulled on you a couple times and see if you'd say the same again. Actually I've spent quite a bit of time in 0.0. And no, I'm not the only person here that thinks this isn't an exploit. I've seen it happen before, and I simply accept it as part of the game. There are alot of dirty tricks people can pull, and this is just another one of those. It's not that I don't think it's lame...I just don't scream exploit. Sorry you lost your lil ship. Edit: BTW, CCP apparently agrees with me according to the outcome of your petition. ---------------------------------------------> Red Dwarf is currently recruiting missioners, miners, and 0.0 ratters. Please contact me in-game for details or join channel Red Dwarf Recruitment.
Alfred Spangler	Posted - 2007.06.22 16:33:00 - [26] There is a simple solution to the login traps: If there is someone with a non-npc aggro countdown in the system, anyone who wants to login has to wait 5 minutes. That may be a bit annoying, but if you log in to really play, that 5 minutes is not too much to wait for 1h+ gameplay. Just have a box saying "You have x minutes before you can enter system y because someone is in a fight in system y.".
Adel Sorra	Posted - 2007.06.22 17:08:00 - [27] Edited by: Adel Sorra on 22/06/2007 17:09:10 Originally by: Alfred Spangler There is a simple solution to the login traps: If there is someone with a non-npc aggro countdown in the system, anyone who wants to login has to wait 5 minutes. That may be a bit annoying, but if you log in to really play, that 5 minutes is not too much to wait for 1h+ gameplay. Just have a box saying "You have x minutes before you can enter system y because someone is in a fight in system y.". I think 1 or 2 minutes would do, more would be long already. But somehow i'm just shure this would cause unfairness in other situations. maybe when you get attaked in a belt and a buddy can't login his alt to help you or stuff like that. And that would really be unfair because he really should be allowed to help you. On the other hand, if this is so common it may be the lesser of to evil
Ki Tarra	Posted - 2007.06.22 18:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Alfred Spangler There is a simple solution to the login traps: If there is someone with a non-npc aggro countdown in the system, anyone who wants to login has to wait 5 minutes. That may be a bit annoying, but if you log in to really play, that 5 minutes is not too much to wait for 1h+ gameplay. Just have a box saying "You have x minutes before you can enter system y because someone is in a fight in system y.". And people say that it is bad logging in to Jita now! There are always empire wars going on. This count down would apply to any hub system in empire. A bit of over kill really. And 5 minutes is way too long to have to wait if you are just logging in to change a skill, or worse logging into to recover from a client crash. Quote: No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
Adel Sorra	Posted - 2007.06.22 18:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Ki Tarra There are always empire wars going on. This count down would apply to any hub system in empire. See, i knew i missed something :)
JKinkaid	Posted - 2007.06.22 19:48:00 - [30] Hi, Very simple solution to this problem.. If you log out and then log back in with the SAME character, within the first 2-5 minutes of the log out you are unable to attack anyone for 5 minutes unless 1) you were attacked first by them, 2) your in a specific mission zone or active battle and attacked. Once attacked your unable to attack flag is cleared. This would eliminate people logging out, then logging right back in and attacking yet still allow them to return fire and defend themself if they are attacked upon log in. JKinkaid



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