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Atticus Fynch 257	Posted - 2012.01.04 20:23:00 - [1] - Quote Industrials/Transports/Exhumers/Freighters are non-combat ships. Although they can be fitted (except for freighters which cant be fitted with anything) with guns, they are not designed for combat. Proposal: Treat these ship types as a separate non-combat class capable of holding mods made only for their class. Introducing high powered, anti-webbing, anti-warpscramble, anti-cargoscan, anti-lock on mods. These mods would have to be of higher caliber than those available to all other ship types. If other combat-type ships choose to use them they come at a high power-grid/capacitor price for them (much like certain cloak mods do already). I would also like to see some ingenuity in new mods. 1. Micro warp jump: an emergency feature that will "micro-jump" you 100m in some random direction. It will allow you to disappear and reappear buying you some time to get away from a gang The risk is that it may jump you closer to them since it's random. Comes with a 30 sec cooldown before it can be used again. 2. Pre-jump gate scanner: a glimpse at what waits for you on the other side of a gate. It would be an anti-gate camp feature. Licensed for use only in low/null sec. Inoperable in hi-sec. 3. Auto warp-to-gate compressor mod: something like auto-WTZ but not quite. Available only to freighters and non-cloak enabled transports and exhumers. Different Tech level mods that allow for a closer jump to a gate without coming to full WTZ ability. 4. Anti-cargo scan mod: Remove the temptation by blinding them to your cargo. 5. Doomsday self destruct: This is my favorite and it comes at a high price. It's basically a smartbomb on steroids. This mod will destroy your ship, your pod (you will be podding yourself) as well as all ships currently targeting you (without podding them) within a 100m range. It would only affect targeting ships so it's more akin to a smart grenade. Licensed only for use in low/null sec (like bubbles). Inoperable in high-sec. The self-podding price will hopefully prevent abuse of this mod but if you are in defenseless freighter and you are going to go down, may as well take the attackers with you. The exact details on how to properly balance these ideas out would be up to CCP to decide. I am just presenting the ideas. So I present these ideas and features for CCP, and for all the griefers that feel this would change the game too much against them, let me just say....HTFU!!! These features would balance carebears with non-carebears. All suggestions/adjustments/ideas to this proposal are welcomed. Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
King Rothgar Autocannons Anonymous 126	Posted - 2012.01.04 20:29:00 - [2] - Quote 100m isn't very far, a completely ordinary warp disruptor II reaches 24,000m (24km) without links or heat. 100km seems a little over the top though.
Atticus Fynch 257	Posted - 2012.01.04 20:37:00 - [3] - Quote King Rothgar wrote: 100m isn't very far, a completely ordinary warp disruptor II reaches 24,000m (24km) without links or heat. 100km seems a little over the top though. I agree. The numbers will have to be fudged to make it balanced. Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
Elindreal Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 73	Posted - 2012.01.04 20:54:00 - [4] - Quote these would not bring any balance, if anything it completely throws the balance in carebears' favour. balance means there's a possible counter to everything, it's just that you have to plan for it. your ideas have no counter if you truly want to 'balance' try again
Velicitia Open Designs 430	Posted - 2012.01.04 20:55:00 - [5] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: (stuff) 1. If you CBA to D-scan every so often (10 sec even) you deserve what you're getting. Furthermore, 100m isn't exactly "far" by any means (as noted by Rothgar). 2. get a scout. Said scout works in hi/low/null perfectly (i.e. you can still get ganked at a gatecamp in highsec) 3. WTZ works wonders. Auto-pilot works fine as it is right now. 4. OK, this seems workable -- TBH, it does seem a little backwards that there is no "smuggling hold" (module/whatever) for this purpose. 5. other than the fact you're mistaken about bubbles (they're NS only), this would not be workable due to 100m being (again) a laughably short distance in EVE.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings 63	Posted - 2012.01.04 22:12:00 - [6] - Quote firstly, I challenge that there's even a problem right now. All ship classes have good options to evade combat other than mining ships, and that's a problem with the ship class. but I guess I'll give it a chance... Quote: 1. Micro warp jump: an emergency feature that will "micro-jump" you 100m in some random direction. It will allow you to disappear and reappear buying you some time to get away from a gang The risk is that it may jump you closer to them since it's random. Comes with a 30 sec cooldown before it can be used again. m guessing you mean 100km (because 100m is nothing) in which case that would instantly put you well out of range of anything. There is zero chance of ever being caught with this kind of mod. Stupidly overpowered. Quote: 2. Pre-jump gate scanner: a glimpse at what waits for you on the other side of a gate. It would be an anti-gate camp feature. Licensed for use only in low/null sec. Inoperable in hi-sec. interesting. A bit overpowered, though it could be worked around. I really don't see the point. Get a friend to scout. Quote: 3. Auto warp-to-gate compressor mod: something like auto-WTZ but not quite. Available only to freighters and non-cloak enabled transports and exhumers. Different Tech level mods that allow for a closer jump to a gate without coming to full WTZ ability. so it would be...a rig? How do you plan on fitting it to slotless freighters? Regardless, this is a bad idea. Allowing people to quickly AFK through space makes the EVE universe smaller. Quote: 4. Anti-cargo scan mod: Remove the temptation by blinding them to your cargo. and the counter to this...is...? How would this retain game balance other than completely and utterly removing suicide ganking of haulers? Quote: 5. Doomsday self destruct: This is my favorite and it comes at a high price. It's basically a smartbomb on steroids. This mod will destroy your ship, your pod (you will be podding yourself) as well as all ships currently targeting you (without podding them) within a 100m range. It would only affect targeting ships so it's more akin to a smart grenade. Licensed only for use in low/null sec (like bubbles). Inoperable in high-sec. The self-podding price will hopefully prevent abuse of this mod but if you are in defenseless freighter and you are going to go down, may as well take the attackers with you. 100m...again? Are you sure you understand how small 100m is? No one would ever be affected by this. This is actually somewhat reasonable as long as the range was long enough to be potentially useful but not so large that it cannot be countered. Smart attackers would be able to keep out of range of it when the killing blow is spent, but could still occasionally get people who aren't paying attention. I'm not sure it 'fits' the game though.
MadMuppet Kerguelen Station 70	Posted - 2012.01.04 22:31:00 - [7] - Quote 1. 100m hop? How is this helpful? Even the smallest ships are over 50m in length. 1 (counter proposal), decoy launcher to disrupt targetting and webbed for X number of seconds (20?) Modified down by attackers scan resolution. 2. This is something that is needed in my opinion. The 'get a scout' argument is a very tired one. However I think all that should be reported is the number of ships, not cloaked, within 50km of the gate on the other side within the last five minutes. Not what kind, not who they are, nothing, just a head count. Some will argue that it'll kill gate camping, but not really. The short range just give a 'help' to the incoming pilot is all it is, the DPS folks just need to hold outside the sensor radius to avoid warning their prey. Some will argue that you'll kill PVP, but a lot of people avoid going 'out there' because they don't want to fly in to a situation where they stand no chance at all of at least a minor hope to escape. Give them some hope and more will go out there. 3. What needs to be fixed is the WTZ bouncing off the gate crap for big ships. Otherwise it should stay as it is. 4. A smuggling hold is needed. It uses up a certain amount of cargo space, is fitted as a module, and has ridiculous fitting numbers so that only ships with bonuses can use them (like Strip Miners and Covert Ops Cloaks). The fact that you have one could be scanned, but the contents could not. Say it converts 1000m3 of cargo in to 100m3 of smuggling space. Low slot item. 5. I'm fine with fragging your pod, your cargo, and your ship. Otherwise the rest is bull. Yes, I only have a Vigil, I've had a bad bit of luck Ok?
Atticus Fynch 258	Posted - 2012.01.04 22:31:00 - [8] - Quote Elindreal wrote: these would not bring any balance, if anything it completely throws the balance in carebears' favour. balance means there's a possible counter to everything, it's just that you have to plan for it. your ideas have no counter if you truly want to 'balance' try again And exactly what kind of balance does a freighter have against....anything? I will admit the piwate tears in this thread are delicious which means this thread is headed in the right direction. I just hope cpp is paying attention. Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
MadMuppet Kerguelen Station 70	Posted - 2012.01.04 23:32:00 - [9] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: Elindreal wrote: these would not bring any balance, if anything it completely throws the balance in carebears' favour. balance means there's a possible counter to everything, it's just that you have to plan for it. your ideas have no counter if you truly want to 'balance' try again And exactly what kind of balance does a freighter have against....anything? Freighters can move armies, in this instance it is a strategic asset by allowing others to wage war as well as an economic asset in that they are large enough to disrupt local markets. You want to place it in the tactical arena. Yes, I only have a Vigil, I've had a bad bit of luck Ok?
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 629	Posted - 2012.01.04 23:52:00 - [10] - Quote Lol, the butthurt alone is worth it. +1
el alasar The Scope Gallente Federation 137	Posted - 2012.01.05 00:02:00 - [11] - Quote the interesting thing about the post is the idea to divide the ships into combat vs. industrial ships, and this having an impact! right now ships are basically equal - as in having no really special traits (cov ops ok). mostly signature size, speed and alignment time decide if a ship (possibly an industrial) gets through, maybe EHP too. you could argue that combat ships were designed /optimized to fight hostile forces - other combat ships. thus industrial ships basically abondoning all means to fight back could incorporate special means to evade a fight. i feel the proposed suggestions alone would make the game very much unbalanced, but several special traits could be made available if there was a counter to it. e.g. a new combat ship class with a role specialized to deal with enforcing a blockade - stop industrials getting through. i think of blockade rather than simply "those ships can lock/kill industrials faster", e.g. only those ships alone could be noticeable from the other side of the gate providing a deterrant to jump. this would add variety and roles in pvp, possibly also strengthening the economic side of eve. further dividing a conflict into armed forces and needed supply/logistics. more options and complexity. good. balancing would take months of discussion i think it has potential. check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
Atticus Fynch 259	Posted - 2012.01.05 00:48:00 - [12] - Quote Keep in mind, the idea here is not to water down or diminish pirate/combat/offensive abilities, but rather to enhance or buff non-combat/carebear/logistical support abilities. So piwates really should have nothing to cry about because they are not losing anything...but they will be getting a passive fight in return from carebears. You should enjoy the challenge....no? Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
Proclus Diadochu Obstergo NEM3SIS. 46	Posted - 2012.01.05 07:55:00 - [13] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: crap Listen nub. Play the game, or don't. You are asking for the game to unbalance in your favor. You cry because you don't think it is balanced. You know what the freighter has that other ships don't? Tons of cargo space. No combat ship in tha game can carry some things that a freighter can (ie. Ihubs). You know how many combat ships can mine aswell as a Hulk? None. You do realize T2 Haulers have bonuses to assist them in blockade running. So if you played the game longer than a second, you'd realize you have perks that combat ships don't. Ships have their purpose. You don't get to have a carebear wonderland with combat options. You get option 'A' or option 'B', that's how it works. If you can't hack it, play another game. Stop being a ***** and play the game. Stop trying to unbalance it because your mad.
Simi Kusoni HelloKittyFanclub 25	Posted - 2012.01.05 14:02:00 - [14] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: 1. Micro warp jump: an emergency feature that will "micro-jump" you 100m in some random direction. It will allow you to disappear and reappear buying you some time to get away from a gang The risk is that it may jump you closer to them since it's random. Comes with a 30 sec cooldown before it can be used again. 2. Pre-jump gate scanner: a glimpse at what waits for you on the other side of a gate. It would be an anti-gate camp feature. Licensed for use only in low/null sec. Inoperable in hi-sec. 3. Auto warp-to-gate compressor mod: something like auto-WTZ but not quite. Available only to freighters and non-cloak enabled transports and exhumers. Different Tech level mods that allow for a closer jump to a gate without coming to full WTZ ability. 4. Anti-cargo scan mod: Remove the temptation by blinding them to your cargo. 5. Doomsday self destruct: This is my favorite and it comes at a high price. It's basically a smartbomb on steroids. This mod will destroy your ship, your pod (you will be podding yourself) as well as all ships currently targeting you (without podding them) within a 100m range. It would only affect targeting ships so it's more akin to a smart grenade. Licensed only for use in low/null sec (like bubbles). Inoperable in high-sec. The self-podding price will hopefully prevent abuse of this mod but if you are in defenseless freighter and you are going to go down, may as well take the attackers with you. 1) Dependent on the distance this idea is either not going to help you at all, or become ridiculously OP. If you want to break people's locks and escape, use ecm drones and ecm bursts. Not magical teleporting devices. 2) This wouldn't really help you. Pirates don't sit on the other side of the gate, they sit at a safe with a scout watching you. You land, scan, jump. They warp as you jump, and kill you. Failing that, they see you land, one of them jump and engages you forcing you to jump through into their friends. 3) Auto WTZ? I support this. I also want an "auto run my 10/10 plex" module that automatically finds and completes the plex and deposits all the shiny stuff in my hangar afterwards. 4) Meh, maybe. Although tbh suicide gankers shouldn't be an issue if you kept the value of stuff in your hold underneath the value of the ships it would take to gank you. 5) Rofl, no. If you want to fight back then don't fly a freighter solo into null/low. Or use T2 transports, you know, the ships that are designed for it. Hell, alternatively, JF it in.
Duchess Starbuckington Starbuckington Manor 76	Posted - 2012.01.05 14:36:00 - [15] - Quote All 5 ideas are idiocy in their own way, but the others have neatly described how so I won't bother ripping on them one by one. Instead I'll start on the rest of the OP's rampant stupidity: Quote: These features would balance carebears with non-carebears. No, these would make a decently fitted industrial unkillable. Quote: And exactly what kind of balance does a freighter have against....anything? They're bulk transport ships. Want to take one somewhere risky? Bring an escort fleet. Simple as that. Quote: I will admit the piwate tears in this thread are delicious which means this thread is headed in the right direction. I just hope cpp is paying attention. There's a difference between legitimate criticism and tears. Try learning what it is if you want to be taken remotely seriously. Quote: So piwates really should have nothing to cry about because they are not losing anything...but they will be getting a passive fight in return from carebears. You should enjoy the challenge....no?Blink If your pile of dribbling fail is ever implemented, there'll be no challenge or fight at all - carebears will be invincible. But the biggest problem with this load of rubbish? Counters to pirates already exist. A properly fitted T1 industrial can traverse all but the most heavily camped lowsec with ease if the pilot has a clue. Then there are blockade runners and jump freighters, ships that are designed specificially for high-risk logistics and a role they excell at. Nerfs and buffs are only required if there's no reasonable in-game way to deal with a problem. There are plenty of in-game ways to deal with this, and thus every hilariously OP idea in this thread is completely pointless.
Atticus Fynch 259	Posted - 2012.01.05 15:47:00 - [16] - Quote Oh how I love the piwate tears and name calling in the replies. Afraid that non-combatant ships will actually be harder to gank or be gratuitously destroyed for a non-game feature/advantage called a "killmail"....please more....more...more. CCP, I think I'm onto something here. If buffing defense features for ships that dont pew-pew is causing all this whining and name calling then it definitely will balance the game out. Piwates and carebears will finally be on equal footing and you may actually see an increase in subs...which is the bottom line you are looking for, right? Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
Duchess Starbuckington Starbuckington Manor 77	Posted - 2012.01.05 16:14:00 - [17] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: Blah blah blah Oh look, not a single valid counterpoint. What a surprise. Prime example of how blurred the line between troll and simpleton is, I really can't tell in this case.
Fidelium Mortis Quantum Cats Syndicate 17	Posted - 2012.01.05 16:42:00 - [18] - Quote What I see are measures to greatly reduce risk currently faced by industrial ships without reducing the reward, which runs counter to the very essence of EVE. Currently it is possible for a prepared pilot to reduce risk to near zero (especially in high-sec), so I'm not sure that there's really a need or true demand to reduce it any further. The only reason high-sec gankers have any semblance of success is there are still too many people that run through high-sec while taking little to no precautions. If it's not profitable they wouldn't be there. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Simi Kusoni HelloKittyFanclub 25	Posted - 2012.01.05 16:44:00 - [19] - Quote Duchess Starbuckington wrote: Atticus Fynch wrote: Blah blah blah Oh look, not a single valid counterpoint. What a surprise. Prime example of how blurred the line between troll and simpleton is, I really can't tell in this case. Heh, it always makes me laugh when carebears make threads like this, because they think the game is so imbalanced against them. The thing is pirates are carebears too. In fact, when it comes to low sec, we probably do considerably more carebear activities than the guys making these posts. The difference is we know not to do stuff like jump freighters filled with our shiny stuff blindly through gates, and just get black frog to JF it for us instead.
Atticus Fynch 259	Posted - 2012.01.05 18:01:00 - [20] - Quote Simi Kusoni wrote: The thing is pirates are carebears too. In fact, when it comes to low sec, we probably do considerably more carebear activities than the guys making these posts. The difference is we know not to do stuff like jump freighters filled with our shiny stuff blindly through gates, and just get black frog to JF it for us instead. All pirates may be carebears, but not all carebears are pirates. As for Black Frog, I didn't know EVE revolved around any one corp or alliance. So who is the simpleton here? The player looking for autonomy or the one hooked on the cooperation of another corp in a "trust no one" universe? Face it, it will make your ganking harder, that is what you are upset about and will prob rage quit over if implemented. No one corporate entity should have a monopoly in EVE to the point that newbs need them in order to survive. Where is the sandbox in that? Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
Duchess Starbuckington Starbuckington Manor 77	Posted - 2012.01.05 18:11:00 - [21] - Quote Quote: Face it, it will make your ganking harder, Ganking is only as easy as the one flying the industrial makes it. The tools to prevent or mitigate losses already exist, and don't need buffing - especially not to the utterly ludicrous levels proposed in the OP. Inb4 "OMGZZZZ YOU DISAGREE SO YOU MUST BE A PIRATE TEARS LOLOL" But hey, I can make groundless inferences instead of legitimate points as well, so I'm gonna say that you're likely a carebear who got repeatedly ganked due to not having a clue about this game.
Viceran Phaedra Phaed Consortium The Watchmen. 1	Posted - 2012.01.05 18:22:00 - [22] - Quote In defence of decent PvE pilots everywhere, Atticus, your contribution to this thread is no longer constructive. Your suggestions would destroy the current balance. Learn to fly smarter, and you will lose fewer assets. You are encouraging PvP pilots to tar us all with your brush. Be quiet.
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 496	Posted - 2012.01.05 19:28:00 - [23] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: 1. Micro warp jump: an emergency feature that will "micro-jump" you 100m in some random direction. It will allow you to disappear and reappear buying you some time to get away from a gang The risk is that it may jump you closer to them since it's random. Comes with a 30 sec cooldown before it can be used again. 2. Pre-jump gate scanner: a glimpse at what waits for you on the other side of a gate. It would be an anti-gate camp feature. Licensed for use only in low/null sec. Inoperable in hi-sec. 3. Auto warp-to-gate compressor mod: something like auto-WTZ but not quite. Available only to freighters and non-cloak enabled transports and exhumers. Different Tech level mods that allow for a closer jump to a gate without coming to full WTZ ability. 4. Anti-cargo scan mod: Remove the temptation by blinding them to your cargo. 5. Doomsday self destruct: This is my favorite and it comes at a high price. It's basically a smartbomb on steroids. This mod will destroy your ship, your pod (you will be podding yourself) as well as all ships currently targeting you (without podding them) within a 100m range. It would only affect targeting ships so it's more akin to a smart grenade. Licensed only for use in low/null sec (like bubbles). Inoperable in high-sec. The self-podding price will hopefully prevent abuse of this mod but if you are in defenseless freighter and you are going to go down, may as well take the attackers with you. Note: I am a carebear (well, HS dweller who runs missions... some call that a carebear). 1) To make this not overpowered, it should only work if you are not scrammed. Perhaps make it require only 25% speed, so it is useful, but not broken. Means you can still be attacked, and if you get scrammed your SOL (unless fit right), but a smart enough player should be fine unless faced with insane odds. However, I could live without it. 2) Bad idea simply for the server calls needed. Also either has no effect as people sit outside of intel range or eliminates one of the most fun low sec activity (breaking gate camps and listening to their whines). 3) Freighters can't fit mods. Also I am against autopilot personally (and afk mining) because I feel that people should actually play the game. But I don't try to force my personal play choices on others... usually. Also, this won't help, as they will either still kill you or still leave you alone. 4) I would love a smuggling cargo hold (as described by someone early in the thread). Pretty much, smaller than the main hold, and its contents cannot be scanned. However its existence could be. Would be fun having people gank me only to find I was empty with no mods other than that one. However, I am against a simple anticargo scan device. Just jump through the gate and don't autopilot. 5) NO! This is a broken idea. How the Hell does it only effect those that targetted the ship? Also AOE is notorious for server problems. This would be used to ridiculous effects in null and low whenever anyone is dying. In short, I am against all of your ideas as written as they do not bring balance, but create imbalance (or are cruel to the hamsters). A lot of these "piwates" are not pirates, griefers or whatever you want to call them. Just players who don't want the game broken. Also ganking is only easy when the ganked one makes it so. Fly smarter (and not afk) and 90% of ganks would fail... until gankers started using the expensive stuff. If you want to know these methods, EVE mail me and I would be glad to lay them out for you. And I would quit if this was implemented, because overall it would make it safe to "play" afk and/or stupidly.
Bischopt Ice Fire Warriors 53	Posted - 2012.01.05 20:26:00 - [24] - Quote Either the OP is trolling or just doesnt realize how ridiculous this all is. 1) 100m or 100 000m, either way it wont save you if you're in a freighter. 30 sec cooldown is way too little. 2) Every single person running a gate camp would have one of these with them and they would know when you're there ready to jump and they would come to you and kill you instead of waiting for you to come to them. 3) what is this i dont even... 4) creating a mod to make an existing mod useless. 5) This would absolutely 100% surely be abused and is insanely overpowerd anyway. It's practically an I-win-button. I know you're complaining about these ship types being powerless and weak but that's the way they're supposed to be. They have their place. They're vulnerable but they can also do things no other class can do. They're not broken, you are.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 400	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:09:00 - [25] - Quote Post your loss mail.
Boris Lachenkov Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:13:00 - [26] - Quote I was going to post in here and describe why your ideas are bad, but then I realised I don't need to as your ideas are bad.
Atticus Fynch 262	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:23:00 - [27] - Quote Duchess Starbuckington wrote: But hey, I can make groundless inferences instead of legitimate points as well, so I'm gonna say that you're likely a carebear who got repeatedly ganked due to not having a clue about this game. Viceran Phaedra wrote: You are encouraging PvP pilots to tar us all with your brush. Be quiet. Corina Jarr wrote: And I would quit if this was implemented, because overall it would make it safe to "play" afk and/or stupidly. Bischopt wrote: They're not broken, you are. When you get down to it, EVE is fundamentally a Predator vs Prey game. Looks like the Predators will be upset if the Prey got even footing. Unless there is proper balance, carbearing in EVE will remain a losing game. These comments show that Predators are afraid of having to put up a fight for change instead of beating up the defenseless toon for his lunch money. Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
Test Character PleaseIgnore Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:34:00 - [28] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: When you get down to it, EVE is fundamentally a Predator vs Prey game. Looks like the Predators will be upset if the Prey got even footing. Unless there is proper balance, carbearing in EVE will remain a losing game. These comments show that Predators are afraid of having to put up a fight for change instead of beating up the defenseless toon for his lunch money. Your main problem here is that you have this conception that industrial ships are defenseless. You, and publords like you, need to understand that there are game mechanics (instant-undocks, tacticals, safes, d-scans, probes, intel channels) that contribute significantly to ANY ship's survival. Additionally, please try to understand that the price of combat inability is not paid for nothing. Industrials gain things like bonuses to warp core stability, the ability to fit cloaks, massive cargoholds, the ability to use gates and cynos. It's pubbies like you why risk/reward is all ******.
Kotorii Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:35:00 - [29] - Quote Oh God this thread
Kotorii Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:38:00 - [30] - Quote Why don't you just round off all your wants to a module that makes you unkillable in hisec!

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