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Armor tank on par to the Drake's shield tank?

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La Hafiz Parliament of Liberty DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2007.06.19 00:39:00 - [1] Hey guys. My friends and I decided to all hop in battlecruisers, and I was wondering if it is possible to have a battlecruiser armor tank that is on par with the Drake's shield tank? All comments are greatly appreciated! img144.imageshack.us/img144/6767/nmosque14vt.jpg[/IMG] Signature removed, lacks Eve related content - Cortes
Articnir	Posted - 2007.06.19 00:41:00 - [2] Not that I've seen so far, the Drake has insane tank, will change after today, but still proly pass the armor tankers, not sure though.
eXtas BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.19 00:43:00 - [3] no not even close, a riged myrmidron can tank pretty yber (1 bs) but still not close to a drakes tank that dont even need cap :P
Santa Anna	Posted - 2007.06.19 00:45:00 - [4] A Dual-rep myrm tank with a combo of rep amount and rep time rigs is pretty effective. You pretty much need cap boosters for it, though, so it's not as indefinitely sustainable as a passive shield tank.
La Hafiz Parliament of Liberty DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2007.06.19 00:54:00 - [5] So, no hope for an amarr battlecruiser sans cap injector? img144.imageshack.us/img144/6767/nmosque14vt.jpg[/IMG] Signature removed, lacks Eve related content - Cortes
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:33:00 - [6] just a guess but have a play with a Harbinger Something like 5-6x pulses of some sort, 2-3x Med NOS 10mn AB II, web, scram, Injector 2x MAR II, T2 or N-Type EXP, KIN, Therm, DC II if your in a gang you can drop either the web or scram depending on what the gang needs you to fit and fit a cap recharger II or something. Rigs, CCCx2 & rep amount No it's not going to tank like a drake but it should be pretty good anyway. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:34:00 - [7] Damnation. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Mr Li	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:55:00 - [8] And here I remember reading that the tier 2 BCs were going to be Gank oriented oh so long ago. Any reason why both Drake and Ferox share a bonus?
E Vile	Posted - 2007.06.19 03:09:00 - [9] Originally by: La Hafiz So, no hope for an amarr battlecruiser sans cap injector? The Amarr BC does FAR MORE Dmg then the Drake. The Myrmidon does FAR MORE DMG then the drake. How exactly is the drake overpowered? Tank? The Amarr BC has plenty room for a FULL TANK AND GANK MODS, as does the Myrmadon. The Drake to fit even a half decent tank has NO ROOM for gank mods. How exactly is the drake overpowered? Just because a full skilled shield tanker can tank something? You can't lock someone down, you don't have dps to take someone out even if you could. You can maybe if well fit take a punch. Just like they are with the BC nerf THAT ONLY EFFECTS DRAKES. I'm thinking you whiners might need some lessons on armor tanking, or need to train skills up more. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering." Shohadaku New York Metal
La Hafiz Parliament of Liberty DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2007.06.19 03:23:00 - [10] Goodness Gracious. Take that ten foot pole out of your rear end. I wasn't complaining at all, and I happen to love 90% of all the Amarr ships I have flown. I was just asking if it was possible to get an insane armor tank similar to the drake's shield tank. img144.imageshack.us/img144/6767/nmosque14vt.jpg[/IMG] Signature removed, lacks Eve related content - Cortes

Lore Isander Caldari Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.19 03:29:00 - [11] Originally by: La Hafiz Goodness Gracious. Take that ten foot pole out of your rear end. I wasn't complaining at all, and I happen to love 90% of all the Amarr ships I have flown. I was just asking if it was possible to get an insane armor tank similar to the drake's shield tank. Qft And propably not, the Drake passive tank is just imba. Myrmidon is the closest one you can get to it. And E Vile, SHUT UP. ---
Siakel	Posted - 2007.06.19 03:30:00 - [12] Originally by: E Vile Originally by: La Hafiz So, no hope for an amarr battlecruiser sans cap injector? The Amarr BC does FAR MORE Dmg then the Drake. The Myrmidon does FAR MORE DMG then the drake. How exactly is the drake overpowered? Tank? The Amarr BC has plenty room for a FULL TANK AND GANK MODS, as does the Myrmadon. The Drake to fit even a half decent tank has NO ROOM for gank mods. How exactly is the drake overpowered? Just because a full skilled shield tanker can tank something? You can't lock someone down, you don't have dps to take someone out even if you could. You can maybe if well fit take a punch. Just like they are with the BC nerf THAT ONLY EFFECTS DRAKES. I'm thinking you whiners might need some lessons on armor tanking, or need to train skills up more. Err... what? Full tank+full Gank is 8 slots. Not six. And an active-tanked Drake has plenty of room for gank mods. No, it isn't going to be very ganky if you're devoting every single mid/low slot to your tank. But then, why should it be ganky if you do that? And the Drake will still be able to tank after Rev2. It'll take a slight hit in the area of passive tanks, and yes, you might have to use active tanks that can be nossed. Just like everyone else. Not seeing the problem. And the shield recharge change only effects drakes? So it won't touch the Eos, or the Myrmidon, or the Ferox, or the Vulture, or the Nighthawk, or the Hurricane? Interesting theory, there.
Gavin Darklighter	Posted - 2007.06.19 03:57:00 - [13] Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 19/06/2007 03:58:09 Mrymidon can passive shield tank as well if not better than the drake if you use an equaly useless fitting as you would on a drake tank. At least the myrmi could still fit nos to sustain its hardners and also kick out domi-size drone dps (abuot 475 with max skills). The only thing an uber-tank drake is good for is bait and that only works if your enemy is stupid. When a decent FC sees a drake on the battlefield "trap" is the first thing that comes to mind. Unless you are looking for a mission tank, You are better off in pvp flying a useful bc with a bit less tank, like an armor rep ammount/duration rigged myrmi, which comes with awesome drone dps, a BS sized tank in a manuverable and lower-sig package that can get under bs guns, tackle and/or ewar, and either even more uber blaster dps or tank-crippling nos. A drake can survive for a little while under extreme punishment, but a myrmidon/hurricane/harbinger can actualy kill people.
Grendelsbane	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:09:00 - [14] The Drake trades excellent PvE tanking for PvP effectiveness. In a fleet PvP setting with a Drake, you can have a good cheap tank or hitting power/gank modules, but not both. Trade-offs, like everything else in the game. Seriously, which is scarier, a Drake, or a Myrmidon? I sure as hell know what scares me more, even though I love my drake.
Gavin Darklighter	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Grendelsbane The Drake trades excellent PvE tanking for PvP effectiveness. In a fleet PvP setting with a Drake, you can have a good cheap tank or hitting power/gank modules, but not both. Trade-offs, like everything else in the game. Seriously, which is scarier, a Drake, or a Myrmidon? I sure as hell know what scares me more, even though I love my drake. While the concept of trade-offs is great, PVP tradeoffs for PVE effectiveness for an entire race is pretty bad IMO. Sure you can fit a drake to tackle but then its tank blows, and even with a full rack of BCS it still doesnt get close to the other race's damage output. Meanwhile ships like the myrmi can deal great dps, nos like crazy, tackle, ewar, and tank like a battleship all at the same time.
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:17:00 - [16] Edited by: NIkis on 19/06/2007 04:19:45 flame bait since you fly with 'friends' Quote: My friends and I decided to all hop in battlecruisers what need you have for comparing a passive tank meant mostly for soloing (and disregarding any half decent dps) ? PS Cortes seems sleepy he only removed a tag, not the whole sig. Originally by: La Hafiz img144.imageshack.us/img144/6767/nmosque14vt.jpg[/IMG] Signature removed, lacks Eve related content - Cortes
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:32:00 - [17] Not posible to get a non capital armor tank like the drakes, It's the price you pay for e-war and damage that can break a wet paper bag.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:34:00 - [18] Oh, and the passive tank drake is in direct response to NOS, so I really don't have much faith in a nos change anymore.
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:48:00 - [19] Originally by: eXtas no not even close, a riged myrmidron can tank pretty yber (1 bs) but still not close to a drakes tank that dont even need cap :P FYI, the myrm can passive shield tank better than a drake...y'know, one of those tanks that doesn't use any cap. And if you actually did spend all your mid, low and rigslots on armor tanking..i'm pretty sure the myrm could do better than a drake.
Fenix Dragoon Caldari Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:57:00 - [20] Try this setup (Use your available tech level) 5 x heavy drones 6 x Shield relays 4 x shield rechargers 4 medium NOS with this, I can tank a 4 BS while afk For one to truly be offensive, one must learn the art of defense. Cover all areas for your enemy will exploit everything

pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:55:00 - [21] swap out 2 of those rechargers for some hardeners...and you have a much better tank.
kill0rbunny Alpha-Hirogen Phoenix Allianz	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Fenix Dragoon Try this setup (Use your available tech level) 5 x heavy drones 6 x Shield relays 4 x shield rechargers 4 medium NOS with this, I can tank a 4 BS while afk For one to truly be offensive, one must learn the art of defense. Cover all areas for your enemy will exploit everything Shield Rechargers suck, use extenders instead. Makes a much better tank on a bc. I pew therefore I am.
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Jacob Holland on 19/06/2007 07:32:53 Edited by: Jacob Holland on 19/06/2007 07:32:02 On a par with the Drake in terms of Nos immune? No. On a par in Rep amount & sustainability? Perhaps the closest would be the Myrm. The highs we'll ignore for the moment, they'd need to be capless, Artillery or ACs because the tank can't rely on Nos and can't be made even close to sustainable with cap draining guns. The mids would need to be entirely T2 cap rechargers. The Lows would have to be dual rep, Triple EANM and a T2 Cap power relay. The rig slots would need to be rep amount (T2), rep cycle (T1) and CCC (T2). That gives us close to 140HP/second, it should be cap stable, though it wouldn't take much to tip it over the edge. It's less than a passive Drake at peak recharge, pre-patch it's close to an unrigged passive Drake; post patch, shield rigs might be required to get a comparable level of recharge. The resists are close to the twin Invuln Drake. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.19 08:01:00 - [24] Why dual rep? You can drop the CPR for a third rep and fill the highs with as many nos as will fit. That would improve the tank a fair bit. Audri Fisher mentioned that it's impossible with a non capital ship, to be honest I'd be surprised if a dual Rep hyp or moreso triple rep Nosadon could not match a Drake in tanking ability. You can get heavily tanked setups on armor but in specialised setups with less gank and narrow PvP utility, sacrifices a Drake makes as well and more.
LMAAAOOOO	Posted - 2007.06.19 08:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Fenix Dragoon Try this setup (Use your available tech level) 5 x heavy drones 6 x Shield relays 4 x shield rechargers 4 medium NOS with this, I can tank a 4 BS while afk For one to truly be offensive, one must learn the art of defense. Cover all areas for your enemy will exploit everything lol what an ignorant setup, would be far better going for 2 LSE and 2 invul
jaezebelle Gallente ORB enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.19 08:37:00 - [26] My dual repp'd myrm with maxed skills on everythin melted fast to an Arazu, Slepinier and curse. I hadn't ran out of cap either the dual rep setup that could do over 1k hp about every 7 seconds with high resistances just couldn't keep up. I lasted just long enough to kill the Arazu. If i'd used another pilot I have with caldari skills they wouldn't have taken the shield down to less than 2/3 in that time in a passive tanked Drake.
Chavu The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.19 09:07:00 - [27] Without using faction gear : Harbinger Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot Turret Slot Empty Slot 10MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Disruptor II Empty Slot 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Rigs : Empty Slot \ Empty Slot \ Empty Slot \ 4219 shield, 10.55/s, E/T/K/Ex=12/29/47/64 22586 armor, E/T/K/Ex=78/65/60/58 It's got a little over 300 pg left to fit maybe 3 guns. Add on 3x Tri-Mark rigs and bam 34,350 armor. 2x tri marks and 1x ACR will give you 500 grid to play around with and maybe even scratch the paint on an enemy ship. Don't forget the 5500ish hull with 60% resists on it. I think that comes close to a drake passive tank. The only difference is you move like a freighter and your damage is too low to actually kill anything. Makes a good bait ship, put it 50km off of a gate with some cloakers nearby and see what fish you get. But the actual difference between a passive armor tank and a passive shield tank is that the shields recharge. The reason why the passive drake is not balanced is not because it is too good a passive tank, it's because of the shield recharge that you are getting a passive tank AND an active tank. Yes, I know there are many differences that make shield and armor different so they aren't the boringly the same. But slapping on lots of shield points to get BS shields with cruiser shield recharge times is obviously not right and should be fixed. To be honest, I don't think most drakes will notice this "nerf".
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.06.19 12:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Incantare Why dual rep? You can drop the CPR for a third rep and fill the highs with as many nos as will fit. That would improve the tank a fair bit. Because the object is to achieve a tank akin to that of the Drake, Nos cannot be applicable in that case as that requires that you be within Nos range. I worked on the principle that the tank must be self-sustaining. Similarly use of a cap booster was not applicable. The difference between a rigged dual rep Myrm and an unrigged passive Drake is minimal in terms of HP/sec, the thing that make's the Drake's tank that chunk more potent is that not only do you have to chew through about 140HP/second repair (on the Myrm) but you also have 20,000 or so raw shield hitpoints to chew through. Achieving that sort of buffer as well as that sort of rep, and the resistances, in an armour tanked Battlecruiser is not feasable, there simply aren't enough slots. Note though that the tank drake and the tank Myrm are similar in that neither have available slots for weapon upgrades, neither hae any form of tackling module, both have dedicated all available slots to their tank. The advantage lies with the Myrm for damage (just about, around 470-500DPS vs 400 for the Drake, both in optimal conditions) and the Drake for tank (by a long way). -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Alkier	Posted - 2007.06.19 14:14:00 - [29] Originally by: E Vile Originally by: La Hafiz So, no hope for an amarr battlecruiser sans cap injector? The Amarr BC does FAR MORE Dmg then the Drake. The Myrmidon does FAR MORE DMG then the drake. How exactly is the drake overpowered? Tank? The Amarr BC has plenty room for a FULL TANK AND GANK MODS, as does the Myrmadon. The Drake to fit even a half decent tank has NO ROOM for gank mods. How exactly is the drake overpowered? Just because a full skilled shield tanker can tank something? You can't lock someone down, you don't have dps to take someone out even if you could. You can maybe if well fit take a punch. Just like they are with the BC nerf THAT ONLY EFFECTS DRAKES. I'm thinking you whiners might need some lessons on armor tanking, or need to train skills up more.
AnKahn	Posted - 2007.06.19 16:34:00 - [30] OK guys. Some reality to this fruitless Drake thing. You'd think getting a nerf would stop the Drake bashing but... Your ratting in your Drake 2 jumps from home in 0.0 2 hostiles jump in. Smart thing to do is safe spot and cloak but cause the Drake is so dam slow you fitted a tractor beam instead of a cloak in your utility high slot. You run for the gate to home and 2 BC are already there (guess you were nodding a little ratting). Any type BCs. So its 2 vs 1 at the gate. One of them aggresses you. Do you shoot back? Your in a Drake dummy, you can't kill them. Maybe you shoot back to see if the other hostile will aggress you. If so they are locked in the system for 15 min and you can de aggress and leave. (correct me if I'm wrong about this strategy). Maybe the other hostile knows you have crap DPS so just waits. You're still alive cause of your uber tank and you de agress and jump thru (sort of waiting for local to explode with the rest of the gang.) The guy who did not agress you jumps thu and tackles you on the other side. What you going to do now? You cant kill him (any other similar SP lvl BC pilot). You call for help and hope your buddies show up before his buddies. Bottom line, Drake pilot's E-peen, small.



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