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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.25 20:29:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
Oh dear lord that's a horrible setup.
1) You should never need cap booster in missions.
2) You really, really, need 2 target painters to get the most from your torps.
Well I have seen worse.
Anyway - it is true that you do not actually need cap injector however cap injector setups are quite viable, especially if you run those missions fast enough anyway to not bother looting (it's better to do that in separate ship anyway in lev 4). I'm myself running missions with 2 CNR's with cap injectors on both (1x cruise 1x torps). It let's you pull off things with just t2 modules what would need faction tank otherwise.
About painters. Yeah - well ok. You dont actually need them (as like unable to use torps without) but they do make you considerably more effective, especially if you have sig focusing lev 4 or 5 also trained (lev 4 is quite adequate). I would say however that if you manage to squeeze one in then 1 painter is quite enough.
6x siege (arbalest or domination) 2x Auto targeter I (more targets)
1x XL T2 booster, 3x T2 hardener 1x heavy cap injector 1x PAWNAGE painter
3x BCU II 1x beta RCU 1x beta PDU
3x CCC rigs, T2 drones
A bit short on CPU for T2 sieges but domination is approx as good as T2 siege with max skills. T2 torps are not worth using in missions anyway (faction is better). As far as BCU's go well - if you fit under 2 you are hurting yourself but ofc it's doable - just slower than with them.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.26 06:02:00 -
[2]
Originally by: The Manner
Edited by: The Manner on 26/06/2007 05:33:59
Originally by: Silent Marauder
I trust he know what he's talking about since last time i saw him do a lvl 4 in a crusader, and to me thats saying something.
why don;t you take his c.0.c.k out of yer ass and stop bsing
It's quite possible if you don't need heavy firepower. Hell you can tank tripe 1.8 mil BS spawns in 0.0 with just kestrel (as long as they are turret ships - sure you cant kill them but you can tank them I know from personal experience against blood raiders)
Is it the most effective way ? Well ofc not but some people do it in inefficent ships every now and then to feel the challenge. Like AF, HAC or BC's. Takes fairly good understandings of mission mechanics also to know who webs and in what mission you can and in what you can not pull it off.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.26 12:02:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Scrutt5
To make torps effective simple add 3 of the rigs that redices panalty for sig radious by 15%.
You'll single salvo the frigs with torps.
Those rigs DO NOT affect torps. Most reasonable rig assortment for mission raven is 3x CCC rigs or if you feel like you have already enough cap and have CPU to spare then missile speed rigs (targets die a bit faster and you cut of incoming dps slightly faster).
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.27 05:21:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Toria Nynys
No, 3x BCU is not mandatory. But do this. Load up quickfit with your fit. Even with rigs. Note the DPS vs. the enemies you fight.
Then use one of the other fits which include at least 2 BCUs, with torps or cruises -- whatever you can fit. Isn't it amazing how close the 1 BCU torp raven is to a 3 BCU cruise raven? Now consider the range, sig radius and other previously mentioned cruise raven advantages. And with Caldari BS 5 and missile velocity 4 I don't get very many cruises shot down < 50km at all.
No BCUs is simply not allowed. Do what you can to fit at least one, preferably two.
Depends a bit on NPC's you are going to fight against and a bit on definition what you consider to be 'close'. That 'close' is still approx 10% apart from 1 BCU torp raven vs 3 BCU Cruise raven. Altho yes - I do agree that at least 1 BCU should fit into any Raven fit that does missions.
About target painters, cruise missiles and torps. Torpedoes with 1 target painter do same dps to cruisers as cruise missiles without one, more to bigger targets less to frigates. Difference between 2 painter torpedo setup and 1 painter setup is approx the same as difference between 2 BCU setup and 3 BCU setup - well ok not exactly the same, second painter does help against cruisers more but it's relatively useless against anything bigger while price difference is quite noticeable.
Main drawbacks of torps are harder (or more expencive) tank fitting and need to pay attention what you are doing to be effective. In AFK mode cruise is better (less overkill thanks to faster missile speed).
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.27 20:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Toria Nynys
Originally by: Carniflex
Depends a bit on NPC's you are going to fight against and a bit on definition what you consider to be 'close'. That 'close' is still approx 10% apart from 1 BCU torp raven vs 3 BCU Cruise raven.
I used a mix of 2 cruisers, 1 BC and 1 BS for my mockup of a pretty average mission mix. And my numbers were much closer than 10%. Did you factor drones in your mockup as well? Did you use 1x target painter on the cruise raven?
But I think we're on the same page there. The 40+ million SP mission runner trying to post the best mission times possible will want to use cruises OR torps, depending on mission enemy mix and ranges to encounters. For newbies like myself with 10M SP or so, torps are just not the way to fly at all.
I did not actually calculate it. It was just from experience as I run missions with 2 man team - one with cruise missiles and another with torps. So to answer that question I would say no drones and cruise missile boat used also painter. Well I do use drones ofcource but usually only against frigates. I do use faction BCU's tho so that might be reason why my impression about that is at approx 10%. Granted I have not timed my missions with 1 BCU and 3 actually so it's relatively rough ballbark.
When my alt started flying torp raven with me in missions it had approx 4 mil SP. Had rather rough time fitting tank + torps but it was possible with some compromises. It was possible to do all missions without having to warp out with cap injector fueled T1/T2 tank. At first it had no target painter tho so it was less effective in some missions. I would say it was still faster ship in battleship heavy missions so I have to not agree that new players can not pull off torp raven trick. I do agree however that it's relatively hard and takes moderately good understadning of game mechanics to do reasonable compromises when fitting the ship. Also somewhat more expencive if you want better than just barely borderline tank.
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