Originally by: Xtreem

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alot of carrier pilots dont self desruct due to the mail, but rather so you dont get there expensive carrier mods.

I have 2 carriers

epeen carrier, ie all corp x / faction / officer
and free and easy carrier - all t2

if my epeen carrier came under attack and i lost my fighters with no support, id hit the button 2 and deny you my nice loots :)

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Originally by: Rake Mizar

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Having read the 'other thread' on this topic, I think it would be nice if killmails went out to anyone who contributed 1% (or something) of damage or more to a ship. That way the pilot could self-destruct but there would be a record for the e-peen collectors that they were responsible for him pressing the big red button. It would also allow more accounting of a kill since instead of two corps boards showing one kill twice it could show 30% of one kill here and 70% there.

This would also make sure that a mail went out if sentry guns were firing on the target and they got the final hit.

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Originally by: Rake Mizar

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stuff

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Originally by: End Yourself

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Originally by: Xtreem

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alot of carrier pilots dont self desruct due to the mail, but rather so you dont get there expensive carrier mods.

I have 2 carriers

epeen carrier, ie all corp x / faction / officer
and free and easy carrier - all t2

if my epeen carrier came under attack and i lost my fighters with no support, id hit the button 2 and deny you my nice loots :)

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Grats for having two carriers but no clue about gamedynamics!

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Originally by: BABARR

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I have noticed now, more and more capital pilot self destruct their ship when they know they are going to die to don't give the loss mail.

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Originally by: Theodwyn

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if you selfdestruct, there should be a wreck with loot. also the insurance should not be paid out.

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Originally by: Theodwyn

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if you selfdestruct, there should be a wreck with loot. also the insurance should not be paid out.

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Originally by: Neslo

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Why not remove self destruct all together. While I'm with you with the no insurance payout as there should be a payoff for not giving your loot to your enemy... which is you don't get paid your insurance payout.

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Originally by: Neslo

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Originally by: Theodwyn

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if you selfdestruct, there should be a wreck with loot. also the insurance should not be paid out.

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Why not remove self destruct all together. While I'm with you with the no insurance payout as there should be a payoff for not giving your loot to your enemy... which is you don't get paid your insurance payout.

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Originally by: Gammagandalf

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Originally by: Neslo

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Originally by: Theodwyn

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if you selfdestruct, there should be a wreck with loot. also the insurance should not be paid out.

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Why not remove self destruct all together. While I'm with you with the no insurance payout as there should be a payoff for not giving your loot to your enemy... which is you don't get paid your insurance payout.

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this.

you want to deny the one that beat you his reward? fine. but you should not expect compensation in form of insurance.

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Originally by: ghosttr

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I don't think that you should be able to self destruct if you have aggression.

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Originally by: Neslo

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.... you don't see alot of NPCers going ah... screw it I'm not gonna win the mission... I'll self destruct...

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Originally by: Neslo

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Originally by: ghosttr

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I don't think that you should be able to self destruct if you have aggression.

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Again it's pointless to have it in the game if this were the case. Self destruct is a tool to deny your opponent their kill.... you don't see alot of NPCers going ah... screw it I'm not gonna win the mission... I'll self destruct...

It's a pointless tool if you can't use it in PVP. Again for the record I'm all for removing insurance, but let's be resaonable when having a discussion for this feature. Realize what it is in game for and then make suggestions.

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Originally by: End Yourself

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Originally by: Xtreem

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alot of carrier pilots dont self desruct due to the mail, but rather so you dont get there expensive carrier mods.

I have 2 carriers

epeen carrier, ie all corp x / faction / officer
and free and easy carrier - all t2

if my epeen carrier came under attack and i lost my fighters with no support, id hit the button 2 and deny you my nice loots :)

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Grats for having two carriers but no clue about gamedynamics!

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Originally by: Theodwyn

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if you selfdestruct, there should be a wreck with loot. also the insurance should not be paid out.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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It's their ship. They're allowed to do what they want with it, including self-destructing. There shouldn't be a timer on self-destruct, in my opinion. Or it should be short, or even better, configurable when you're in station, maybe via the fitting window. If the only reason for desiring the removal of self-destruct is that you don't get a killmail, that's not a good enough reason.

Insurance payouts? Sure, I can see removing it for self-destruct. But only if you also remove insurance payouts for ships destroyed by CONCORD.

Self-destructing is a completely viable tactic to prevent an enemy from being able to loot your ship or modules as it destroys all modules and fittings when it occurs. It's an absolutely legitimate tactic.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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It's their ship. They're allowed to do what they want with it, including self-destructing. There shouldn't be a timer on self-destruct, in my opinion. Or it should be short, or even better, configurable when you're in station, maybe via the fitting window. If the only reason for desiring the removal of self-destruct is that you don't get a killmail, that's not a good enough reason.

Insurance payouts? Sure, I can see removing it for self-destruct. But only if you also remove insurance payouts for ships destroyed by CONCORD.

Self-destructing is a completely viable tactic to prevent an enemy from being able to loot your ship or modules as it destroys all modules and fittings when it occurs. It's an absolutely legitimate tactic.

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So basically we might as well remove loot dropping from ships, and make it all easier, right?

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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It's their ship. They're allowed to do what they want with it, including self-destructing. There shouldn't be a timer on self-destruct, in my opinion. Or it should be short, or even better, configurable when you're in station, maybe via the fitting window. If the only reason for desiring the removal of self-destruct is that you don't get a killmail, that's not a good enough reason.

Insurance payouts? Sure, I can see removing it for self-destruct. But only if you also remove insurance payouts for ships destroyed by CONCORD.

Self-destructing is a completely viable tactic to prevent an enemy from being able to loot your ship or modules as it destroys all modules and fittings when it occurs. It's an absolutely legitimate tactic.

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So basically we might as well remove loot dropping from ships, and make it all easier, right?

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Quote:

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No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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It's their ship. They're allowed to do what they want with it, including self-destructing. There shouldn't be a timer on self-destruct, in my opinion. Or it should be short, or even better, configurable when you're in station, maybe via the fitting window. If the only reason for desiring the removal of self-destruct is that you don't get a killmail, that's not a good enough reason.

Insurance payouts? Sure, I can see removing it for self-destruct. But only if you also remove insurance payouts for ships destroyed by CONCORD.

Self-destructing is a completely viable tactic to prevent an enemy from being able to loot your ship or modules as it destroys all modules and fittings when it occurs. It's an absolutely legitimate tactic.

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So basically we might as well remove loot dropping from ships, and make it all easier, right?

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That's not what I said. I stand by my statement. Self-destructing to prevent your enemy from gaining anything from you is a perfectly legitimate tactic. Soldiers in every military in history are trained to destroy equipment rather than let the enemy gain from it. This is no different.

It's their ship. They can do what they want with it, including destroying it.

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Originally by: Ki Tarra

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Edited by: Ki Tarra on 27/06/2007 19:48:04
Dark's comment came from the suggestions that you remove the timer on the self-destruct.

Sure, you should be able to self destruct if you want to destroy any potential loot from your wreck, but the real price you pay is in the timing. Self destruct too soon and you don't kill as many of them as you might have. Self destruct too late and they can still kill you fast enough to get the loot.

With an instant self destruct, there is little reason not to self destruct. Even without the insurance payout, if your ship is fitted well enough, self destruct is the obvious choice.

So basically, if we remove the self destruct timer, we might as well remove loot dropping from ships, and make it all easier, right?

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Originally by: Ki Tarra

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Edited by: Ki Tarra on 27/06/2007 19:48:04
Dark's comment came from the suggestions that you remove the timer on the self-destruct.

Sure, you should be able to self destruct if you want to destroy any potential loot from your wreck, but the real price you pay is in the timing. Self destruct too soon and you don't kill as many of them as you might have. Self destruct too late and they can still kill you fast enough to get the loot.

With an instant self destruct, there is little reason not to self destruct. Even without the insurance payout, if your ship is fitted well enough, self destruct is the obvious choice.

So basically, if we remove the self destruct timer, we might as well remove loot dropping from ships, and make it all easier, right?

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Edited by: Jimer Lins on 27/06/2007 19:58:24

Originally by: Ki Tarra

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Edited by: Ki Tarra on 27/06/2007 19:48:04
Dark's comment came from the suggestions that you remove the timer on the self-destruct.

Sure, you should be able to self destruct if you want to destroy any potential loot from your wreck, but the real price you pay is in the timing. Self destruct too soon and you don't kill as many of them as you might have. Self destruct too late and they can still kill you fast enough to get the loot.

With an instant self destruct, there is little reason not to self destruct. Even without the insurance payout, if your ship is fitted well enough, self destruct is the obvious choice.

So basically, if we remove the self destruct timer, we might as well remove loot dropping from ships, and make it all easier, right?

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Fair point. But they still lose the ship. Given the point above, I would agree that self-destruct shouldn't be instant, but should be configurable to a minimum setting, say 10 or 30 seconds or something- but with no way to turn it off if you set it. That way you could configure it for the type of ship, fitting and environment you anticipate.

I still think that it's their ship and if they want to destroy it, that's their decision and supports the idea of denying your enemy any material gain from your destruction.

Ultimately the question of if they destroy it via self-destruct or by trashing it in a hangar is really only one of timing. The rest is semantics.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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It's their ship. They're allowed to do what they want with it, including self-destructing. There shouldn't be a timer on self-destruct, in my opinion. Or it should be short, or even better, configurable when you're in station, maybe via the fitting window. If the only reason for desiring the removal of self-destruct is that you don't get a killmail, that's not a good enough reason.

Insurance payouts? Sure, I can see removing it for self-destruct. But only if you also remove insurance payouts for ships destroyed by CONCORD.

Self-destructing is a completely viable tactic to prevent an enemy from being able to loot your ship or modules as it destroys all modules and fittings when it occurs. It's an absolutely legitimate tactic.

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So basically we might as well remove loot dropping from ships, and make it all easier, right?

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That's not what I said. I stand by my statement. Self-destructing to prevent your enemy from gaining anything from you is a perfectly legitimate tactic. Soldiers in every military in history are trained to destroy equipment rather than let the enemy gain from it. This is no different.

It's their ship. They can do what they want with it, including destroying it.

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Originally by: ToxicFire

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Edited by: ToxicFire on 27/06/2007 23:57:26
Its called scuttling folks navies have done it for years in war, if your vessel is gonna be captured or in this is severely crippled, scuttling the ship to prevent capture of assets is a valid course of action. As such theres nothing wrong with the game... what is wrong is you wanting the kill mail for kill boards, (most of which can be given fake killmails and people don't always report kills therefore aren't really a genuine representation of an encounter. Infact ccp should go as far as to remove kill mails from the game completely it wouldn't make a difference cept epeen comparison would disappear.

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