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Campaign against ISK farmers

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voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:01:00 - [31] Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 17:02:42 Originally by: Cheunger And if I want to have another account after I move? Am I to be denied the opportunity? I think you bring up the most legitimate point against limited new Chinese accounts on the TQ server, and probably why it's not the BEST idea. It's an idea and nothing more. I think theres several more fronts that can be used to attack the farmers rather than this. But I can imagine such a restriction being forced on CCP if the Chinese server starts to lose money hand over fist because of Chinese players being on TQ anyway. Originally by: Shameless Avenger So just because he is chinese, when his character reaches capital abilities, he can't create a cyno alt? 1. It would be more because he's within Chinese borders not because he's Chinese. When your in another country you must abide by their rules regardless of what race you are, if I moved to China I'd be faced with the same problem even though I'm American. 2. Cyno alt, no he'd actually have to work as a team with another player. Gasp
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:04:00 - [32] Again, this topic is not about race nor racial issues. Its about a country that has its own server that sends players to TQ to (mostly) farm ISK for the purpose of selling for real cash. We cant play there so they shouldnt be allowed to play here either. Ppl with existing accounts should be allowed to stay unless they are getting banned for ISK selling. As for the IP routing, not all of them are into that stuff hopefully. (waiting for a dev/gm reply) Ship lovers click here
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:06:00 - [33] Originally by: voogru Originally by: Cheunger And if I want to have another account after I move? Am I to be denied the opportunity? I think you bring up the most legitimate point against limited new Chinese accounts on the TQ server, and probably why it's not the BEST idea. It's an idea and nothing more. I think theres several more fronts that can be used to attack the farmers rather than this. But I can imagine such a restriction being forced on CCP if the Chinese server starts to lose money hand over fist because of Chinese players being on TQ anyway. Oh yes, start with petitioning the people you know that have bought ISK. Regardless if they are chinese or not.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Again, this topic is not about race nor racial issues. Its about a country that has its own server that sends players to TQ to (mostly) farm ISK for the purpose of selling for real cash. We cant play there so they shouldnt be allowed to play here either. Ppl with existing accounts should be allowed to stay unless they are getting banned for ISK selling. As for the IP routing, not all of them are into that stuff hopefully. (waiting for a dev/gm reply) OK, let me see if I can translate this: "I'm not against chinese, just against people born in china"
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:11:00 - [35] Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 27/06/2007 17:10:31 Originally by: voogru I'm American. That explains a lot. Is your head shaved too?
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Shameless Avenger Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 27/06/2007 17:10:31 Originally by: voogru I'm American. That explains a lot. Is your head shaved too? And your acusing me of racism?
Jenai'na	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:18:00 - [37] i wish all those huffy puffy anti isk seller crusaders would show the same enthusiasm when it is about saveing the environment. way to pick a lost cause!
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:20:00 - [38] Originally by: voogru Originally by: Shameless Avenger Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 27/06/2007 17:10:31 Originally by: voogru I'm American. That explains a lot. Is your head shaved too? And your acusing me of racism? Oh, so you don't like it? Then why you do it to other people?
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Shameless Avenger OK, let me see if I can translate this: "I'm not against chinese, just against people born in china" I didnt say that or do you see me saying that? Ship lovers click here
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:26:00 - [40] Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 17:27:52 Originally by: Shameless Avenger Oh yes, start with petitioning the people you know that have bought ISK. Regardless if they are chinese or not. I already do this. I don't care what race you are. If you buy ISK and I find out GM's get a little petition sent their way. Originally by: Shameless Avenger Oh, so you don't like it? Then why you do it to other people? The idea of restricting Chinese players to the Chinese server is simply that, an idea. And I bet that it would probably happen if the owners of the Chinese server wanted it that way in order to increase their profits. If the Chinese server ever gets in real trouble I bet you it would happen. The Chinese have laws in their country that govern your gaming, connecting to a server thats not in China to avoid those laws it would make sense for the Chinese to stop people from 'breaking' or avoiding the law. The Chinese goverment already restricts people from using google and google has their own 'special' version of google for Chinese people, why would they stop at search engines?

Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:40:00 - [41] Originally by: voogru Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 17:27:52 Originally by: Shameless Avenger Oh yes, start with petitioning the people you know that have bought ISK. Regardless if they are chinese or not. I already do this. I don't care what race you are. If you buy ISK and I find out GM's get a little petition sent their way. Originally by: Shameless Avenger Oh, so you don't like it? Then why you do it to other people? The idea of restricting Chinese players to the Chinese server is simply that, an idea. And I bet that it would probably happen if the owners of the Chinese server wanted it that way in order to increase their profits. If the Chinese server ever gets in real trouble I bet you it would happen. The Chinese have laws in their country that govern your gaming, connecting to a server thats not in China to avoid those laws it would make sense for the Chinese to stop people from 'breaking' or avoiding the law. The Chinese goverment already restricts people from using google and google has their own 'special' version of google for Chinese people, why would they stop at search engines? OK, then I could assume you also know that most isk buyers are americans. It is a known fact. I propose we block american IPs. That should take care of the ISK sellers, since they would not have clients to sell the ISKies to.
tiewan	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:43:00 - [42] We need to nerf isk. Put so much of it into the game that everyone is a billionaire
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:46:00 - [43] Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 17:47:52 Originally by: Shameless Avenger OK, then I could assume you also know that most isk buyers are americans. It is a known fact. I propose we block american IPs. That should take care of the ISK sellers, since they would not have clients to sell the ISKies to. Americans are probably a larger amount of the player base than the Chinese player base, and ISK buyers arent all American. Point taken though, ISK buyers are just as big of a problem as ISK sellers, which is why educating the ISK buyers that if they buy ISK from ISK sellers they could get lose their ISK and or banned, because a large majority of ISK buyers don't even know it's not allowed, while ISK sellers blatantly know it's not allowed.
Angellyne	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:50:00 - [44] Originally by: Shameless Avenger OK, then I could assume you also know that most isk buyers are americans. It is a known fact. I propose we block american IPs. That should take care of the ISK sellers, since they would not have clients to sell the ISKies to. You mean after they install the America-only server, right?
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:51:00 - [45] Shameless, tell me what would happen if CCP would block asian IPs. Just think about it for a minute and then tell us. Just think about the consequences for TQ. Ship lovers click here
eveplayer11	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:11:00 - [46] people whining about kids needing to feed their family by farming game currency to sell: ITS NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!!11eleventyeleven1 more bans, a seperate macro/isk farmer petition line would be nice. and less investigation, they dont seem to work very good anyway.. some have existed for years, atleast force name changes on them if their "innocent" witch i highly doubt cause of the 23/7 operations.... if their not guilty of macroing/isk farming their sure guilty of account charing... and stupid names.. i got my changed so shouldnt be that hard to change someone called: asjdf etc.. agree completely about step 4. buurn them all...
Caios Caldari Unified Refining Federation Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:18:00 - [47] Edited by: Caios on 27/06/2007 18:18:23 Originally by: Hellspawn01 Shameless, tell me what would happen if CCP would block asian IPs. Just think about it for a minute and then tell us. Just think about the consequences for TQ. For starters, quite a few asian players both in and out of asia, myself included, would quit in disgust. The distinction being brought up between racism and discrimination by country is splitting hairs at best. Either way you are torching a village to catch a pickpocket, making broad generalizations about a large part of the world and purposefuly exluding a segment of players by association (a tenuous association at that) alone. The presence of a separate server is no excuse to deny people a choice that they would otherwise have. OPs can play "it was just the tip!" and deny racism all he wants, but that doesn't mean that it or a similar mindset is not showing up in this "proposal." I'm sick of these ******* witchhunts.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:21:00 - [48] Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 18:23:05 Originally by: Caios OPs can play "it was just the tip!" and deny racism all he wants, but that doesn't mean that it or a similar mindset is not showing up in this "proposal." I'm sick of these ***** witchhunts. I believe your alliance is paid about 1 billion ISK a week to harbor farmers within the alliance. So your obviously against banning them because you would lose your cash cow. Originally by:** Your alliance Leader 2007.06.14 05:27 Sir, chinese sweatshops put rice on tables and roofs over heads ! Also there is nothing funnier than having people pay you a billion a week to npc in delve. Hell, they are a cash cow for me too but I still want em banned.
Caios Caldari Unified Refining Federation Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:24:00 - [49] Originally by: voogru Originally by: Caios OPs can play "it was just the tip!" and deny racism all he wants, but that doesn't mean that it or a similar mindset is not showing up in this "proposal." I'm sick of these ******* witchhunts. I believe your alliance is paid about 1 billion ISK a week to harbor farmers within the alliance. So your obviously against banning them because you would lose your cash cow. Hell, they are a cash cow for me too but I still want em banned. And you obviously have nothing constructive to add to the debate, but an ad hominem attack based on a generalization. Think.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:33:00 - [50] Originally by: Caios And you obviously have nothing constructive to add to the debate, but an ad hominem attack based on a generalization. Think. Your alliance leader admits to me that they are probably farmers but allows them in the alliance cause they pay a fee. I never said Chinese, he did.

Caios Caldari Unified Refining Federation Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:41:00 - [51] Edited by: Caios on 27/06/2007 18:41:23 Originally by: voogru Originally by: Caios And you obviously have nothing constructive to add to the debate, but an ad hominem attack based on a generalization. Think. Your alliance leader admits to me that they are probably farmers but allows them in the alliance cause they pay a fee. I never said Chinese, he did. Credibility of that statement aside, you've now graduated to non-sequiturs. You gonna straw man next? I've got news for ya: individual != alliance. Least not IAC. Go back under the bridge now. Either way, the point still stands that an act to exclude a swath of the population based purely on geography may not fit the dictionary definition of racism, but it sure as hell is discrimination.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.28 08:20:00 - [52] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Shameless, tell me what would happen if CCP would block asian IPs. Just think about it for a minute and then tell us. Just think about the consequences for TQ. I can tell you what would happen. 5 minutes later, the same people would log back in via a free european proxy. Or use a Zombie botnet to act as proxy servers. Anyhow asia is a big place. The China Server was meant for the Chinese, however I dont know if TQ forwards requests to the chinese server, or even if they are already using proxy's. And china does not always have the biggist isk farmers in eve. For example, a certain Brittish individual scammer from a well known scammer bank got his accounts banned after selling billions on ebay, or so he claimed. -- Billion Isk Mission
Anglo Minmatar Astral Mexicans	Posted - 2007.06.28 08:34:00 - [53] dear ccp could u plz do something serious soon about the rasicm we keep seing on these boards. and a ban from forum aint enough, u should consider a temp ban ingame also. 1 week to start of with maybe.
Tonkin D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.28 08:45:00 - [54] Edited by: Tonkin on 28/06/2007 08:45:57 Edited by: Tonkin on 28/06/2007 08:44:41 ban china playing eve yep i agree with that.they got ther own server isk farmer get on my t*ts
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.28 08:48:00 - [55] There's a dirty secret about isk farmers that no one talks about. It's the reason why CCP doesn't ***** down on them harder. And it's the reason why everyone needs to chill out about isk farmers. Isk farming macrominers are critical to prevent the eve economy from collapsing. One example is ice. Ice takes a ridiculously long time to mine. And POSes need a lot of ice to keep running. In fact, large 0.0 alliances need so much ice that they regularly buy up entire markets worth of it in Empire. If the macro ice miners disappear, so does the ice they mine. The result? Fuel prices will spike ridiculously high, to the point where 0.0 space is basically unusuable until CCP fixes the whole thing. Another are low-end minerals. Anyone who takes a cursory glance at Empire asteroid belts can tell that they're pretty much empty these days except for strangely named characters like "sglv 05." Mining is ridiculously boring and tedious. Mining in empire is even worse, because the amount of money you make off of the minerals is next to nothing. The Drone Regions fiasco can illustrate the exact problem. 1. Massive numbers of macromining isk farmers moved their operations into the drone regions and other 0.0 areas, where the isk was more plentiful. 2. As a result, the prices of high end minerals plummeted, while tritanium spiked. The endgame was a severe eve economic recession, probably the first of its kind. High price tritanium is an extremely difficult situation for manufacturers, and entire regions were rendered nearly worthless thanks to crokite's devaluation. (Zydrine's price fall, of course, can be directly laid at the feet of the introduction of the Drone Regions. Isk farmers are a large presence in the drone regions, but not so large as the rest of the player base. Whether they output more minerals from their neverending droning sprees is up for debate.) This illustrates the massive impact macrominers have on eve. When they stopped farming lowend minerals, the prices spiked and caused a recession. If ice is ever totally removed from Empire, we can expect similar repercussions. And if macrominers are removed entirely? I suspect that CCP will have to find new incentives to get players mining in high sec.
Tonkin D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.28 08:53:00 - [56] bleh might aswell do that ban them all, makes pos wars easier. makes fueling harder, makes the market mean something, and gets people more involved in market politics, contracts will get more involved. and if the market depands kills whats actually there, ccp can simply change what comes out ice roids. eve ran before macrominers why cant it now
Anglo Minmatar Astral Mexicans	Posted - 2007.06.28 08:56:00 - [57] Originally by: Tonkin Edited by: Tonkin on 28/06/2007 08:45:57 Edited by: Tonkin on 28/06/2007 08:44:41 ban china playing eve yep i agree with that.they got ther own server isk farmer get on my tts are u a member of ** ? i meen since u keep blaming an entire nation with your ignorance.
Bosjathfort Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.06.28 09:02:00 - [58] The only solution would be BANNIN the actual ISK farmers + ISK buyers permanently :P... but as the result, CCP will lose probably 1/3 of their subscripters due to this kind of actions :P... PS: WTS clue to that voorxxx thingy lol \\(^O^ )// o/ \o !!null
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.06.28 09:43:00 - [59] most of us are picking at the chinesse ISK sellers disable their IP and push them onto their allocated legal server Rest of asia is welcome on TQ
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.28 10:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Step one: Disable asian IPs to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here) Do you realize that Asia =! China? Originally by: Hellspawn01 Step two: Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann) Unless there is effective way to punish abuse of this option, I don't like it. Everyone and my dog will report their enemies as farmers. Besides, it should be always GM who decides who is farmer based on some factual evidence, not on crap like weird name or not answering someone's convos. Originally by: Hellspawn01 Step three: Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there) This is good idea, however reporting spam via petition takes maybe 1 minute more. Spammers are usually removed by GMs pretty quickly anyway. TBH I will rather live with few farmers than with some witch-hunting mania and GMs banning everyone based on weak evidence or player submitted petitions. _________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered



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