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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:15:00 -
[1]
Step one:
Disable asian accounts to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
Step two:
Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann)
Step three:
Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there)
Step four:
GMs make a detailed (!) monthly report about their efforts in their fight against ISK farmers, sellers and buyers.
I see them everyday and I¦m sick of it. The fact that many players report them and have evidence (voogru¦s page 4tw) and the GMs let them continue to farm and destroy our market. Threads about macro¦s, gold seller and farmer vanish into the forum abyss or get locked but no real answers come from the higher parties. We are told to have patience, to report them but nothing really happens.
Devs, GMs, dont we deserve some better answers? Or are you that greedy already that you dont bann them cuz you loose money? Give us some answers plz.
Ship lovers click here |
Indigo Johnson
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:16:00 -
[2]
Step 5:
We get the point already, stop the spam about it.
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Lord Thalic
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:17:00 -
[3]
Step one will never happen.
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Soriss
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:19:00 -
[4]
if there is demand for a product someoneelse will put it on market
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:19:00 -
[5]
Yes, let's ban all asians from playing EVE. Great PR move.
Also, you can already petition ISK Farmers/Macrominers under EULA and TOS violations.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
IBTL! IBDS! IBTC! 1st in a BoB Post! And other such forum tom-foolery. |
Otomena
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:20:00 -
[6]
Haha, no. Maybe steps 2 and 3, but 4 is counter-productive (great! Let's fight ISK farmers by writing reports on them!) and 1 is completely ridiculous. An entire continent banned? ISK farmers do exist in non-Asian countries, you know. Should we ban North America and Europe next?
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Valan
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:21:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Soriss
if there is demand for a product someoneelse will put it on market
Exactly instead of taking isk of people that get caught. Perma ban them, put people off buying in the first place.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Cheunger
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step one:
Disable asian accounts to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
Step two:
Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann)
Step three:
Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there)
Step four:
GMs make a detailed (!) monthly report about their efforts in their fight against ISK farmers, sellers and buyers.
I see them everyday and I¦m sick of it. The fact that many players report them and have evidence (voogru¦s page 4tw) and the GMs let them continue to farm and destroy our market. Threads about macro¦s, gold seller and farmer vanish into the forum abyss or get locked but no real answers come from the higher parties. We are told to have patience, to report them but nothing really happens.
Devs, GMs, dont we deserve some better answers? Or are you that greedy already that you dont bann them cuz you loose money? Give us some answers plz.
Step 1: Not all ISK farmers are asian. Get a ******* clue.
Step 2: Go away.
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Almirg
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:26:00 -
[9]
That the real Hellspawn01?
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:28:00 -
[10]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 15:29:25
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step one:
Disable asian accounts to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
Ineffective. Would just increase profits for farmers for other countries due to less competition.
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step two:
Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann)
Probably not a bad idea.
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step three:
Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there)
Sounds ok.
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step four:
GMs make a detailed (!) monthly report about their efforts in their fight against ISK farmers, sellers and buyers.
Details against players getting nailed for selling or buying ISK would serve as a deterrent to buyers, as well as letting them know it's not allowed.
Originally by: Indigo Johnson
Step 5:
We get the point already, stop the spam about it.
It seems the most effective way to get change in EVE is to debate it on the forums. Stuff gets nerfed when people whine.
Nerf ISK Sellers!
And quite frankly, I'm sick of seeing their trial account spammage in the trade channels when they repeat the same message EVERY SECOND making any REAL discussion impossible, sure the GM bans them and they come right back 5 minutes later.
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Kolwrath
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cheunger
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step one:
Disable asian accounts to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
Step two:
Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann)
Step three:
Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there)
Step four:
GMs make a detailed (!) monthly report about their efforts in their fight against ISK farmers, sellers and buyers.
I see them everyday and I¦m sick of it. The fact that many players report them and have evidence (voogru¦s page 4tw) and the GMs let them continue to farm and destroy our market. Threads about macro¦s, gold seller and farmer vanish into the forum abyss or get locked but no real answers come from the higher parties. We are told to have patience, to report them but nothing really happens.
Devs, GMs, dont we deserve some better answers? Or are you that greedy already that you dont bann them cuz you loose money? Give us some answers plz.
Step 1: Not all ISK farmers are asian. Get a ******* clue.
Step 2: Go away.
Yeah ... OP has no clue. There was a story on W5 about farmers and you know what??? they were in Argentina. So really you don't know jack. Please stop the racist babble.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 27/06/2007 15:33:20
What a lot of people are unaware about, if I remember correctly, is that hellspawn's corp and a few others did a bloody good job kicking the ISK farming Yides out (they are called yide1231, yide231, yide3123 etc etc, hence why they were known as the yides). They did such a good job, then the yides came to Delve since they were getting ganked silly by the locals in Amarr space.
A few day later they returned back to Amarr space 
So I understand that you feel passionate about stopping isk farmers, however stoping people logging in from asia is not the way forward. I could be on a business trip to china, and this would result in myself unable to log in. I assume that you mean stoping asian IP's, since they should be routed to the china server, and you were not refering to banning people with an asian name. If you were refering to banning asians for the sake of their name, then Im sorry, You will get no support from anyone in this forum.
But if you route china ip's to the china server, then people would use free proxy's so thats not a solution either. There are lots of Isk farmers from eastern europe so that does not solve that scenario anyway.
There is no easy solution, however I think ccp should be a bit more proactive in stopping isk farmers. Who knows? Perhaps they stop 1000 isk farmers a day, but they dont tell us about it. Perhaps a bit more connumincation would help.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:37:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Korizan on 27/06/2007 15:42:28
I hate to burst your bubble
but
The first corp I was in had a player who sold ISK or its like for a living.
HE DEFINITELY WAS NOT ASIAN NOR DID HE LIVE ANYWHERE NEAR THAT SIDE OF THE WORLD.
At the time he was burning time and assessing EVE for its ISK market.
He moved on shortly after words as he was in beta on the Conan MMO
I believe that he felt he could make more money there.
But it was interesting talking to him as he talked about how much money could be made playing a game.
Personally I think it takes all the fun out of a game if you have to play it to make money but back to the point.
Not all ISK farmers are Asian, although they get the loins share of the press nobody wants to admit that there are ISK farmers in every country and yes that means your own back yard as well.
And my solution to ISK farmers ?
I don't buy ISK so they don't get a paycheck from me.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:43:00 -
[14]
I¦m sorry if I didnt explain it properly. But Lord WarATron got my point. I¦m not a racist nor do I have a problem with asian players.
Originally by: Lord WarATron
I assume that you mean stoping asian IP's, since they should be routed to the china server, and you were not refering to banning people with an asian name.
Ship lovers click here |
Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 27/06/2007 15:42:11
Step one:
Disable asian IPs to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
Step two:
Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann)
Step three:
Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there)
Step four:
GMs make a detailed (!) monthly report about their efforts in their fight against ISK farmers, sellers and buyers.
I see them everyday and I¦m sick of it. The fact that many players report them and have evidence (voogru¦s page 4tw) and the GMs let them continue to farm and destroy our market. Threads about macro¦s, gold seller and farmer vanish into the forum abyss or get locked but no real answers come from the higher parties. We are told to have patience, to report them but nothing really happens.
Devs, GMs, dont we deserve some better answers? Or are you that greedy already that you dont bann them cuz you loose money? Give us some answers plz.
Most of those are good ideas, except for step one.
This would just hurt legitimate players, and in the end will do no good, as the farmers will just start routing their traffic through non-asian proxy servers.
There is NO racism in singling out east asia as a major contributor to the ISK farming problem, as it is pretty much a proven fact that ISK farming is a major industry in the far east. However, the ISK farmers are NOT isolated to that area, any place with an overabundance of workers who will work for low pay will be subject to farmer shops opening, as that is how the farming tycoons make the real money off the trade. So if china/east asia gets successfully blocked off, then the shops will start popping up elsewhere (poorer easter european countrys, central/south america, anywhere with internet access and an abundance of low wage workers).
So, trying to block the location is not a valid solution in my opinion. The best method would be specific petition/reporting procedures and tools, and studious GM investigation into cases of suspected farming. Unfortunately, with things as they are now in game, I do not belive CCP has the free manpower to do this.
I hate to play devils advocate, but you can also look at this from another POV. If CCP was really going to get serious about this, they would spend some RL cash and hire a team for the specific purpose of rooting out the farmers. In the end this paid team of hunters, if successful, could eliminate a huge number of 'corrupt' accounts, but in doing so, they would end up costing CCP even more money in the end, because of lost revenue from banned accounts. Does CCP really want this? To spend money in order to eliminate paying subscribers? Those farmers are helping to pay for all the high tech hardware we play on just like you and me. 
IMO, removing the farmers would be better for the game, it would reduce lag immensely in popular lv 4 mission systems, and would keep the amount of ISK pouring from the 'faucet' to a (relatively) more stable volume. As for the actual removal of the farmers... Thats a tough nut to *****, I will just have to wait and see what CCP does about it.
-=^=-
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 16:22:11
I think a wiser solution to step one would be to prevent Chinese players from running _NEW_ accounts on TQ, since they are intended to play on the Chinese server, not TQ. This would also help the Chinese server numbers.
TQ races have democracy, human rights, free speech.
Can't have that in China now can we? 
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 27/06/2007 16:24:10
Originally by: voogru
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 16:22:11
I think a wiser solution to step one would be to prevent Chinese players from running _NEW_ accounts on TQ, since they are intended to play on the Chinese server, not TQ. This would also help the Chinese server numbers.
TQ races have democracy, human rights, free speech.
Can't have that in China now can we?
Kinda pointless, since in 5 minutes, a ISK farmer network guy can route his IPS via a free proxy server in europe, thus defeating the point. There is no point restricting baised upon IP. It just does not work.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Bklyn 1
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:25:00 -
[18]
I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers in these threads. Anyway, not all isk farmers are asian, though let's be honest, some are. I really think CCP should have much more liberal use of the ban stick, particularly with the isk buyers.
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:27:00 -
[19]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 16:26:12
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 27/06/2007 16:24:10
Originally by: voogru
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 16:22:11
I think a wiser solution to step one would be to prevent Chinese players from running _NEW_ accounts on TQ, since they are intended to play on the Chinese server, not TQ. This would also help the Chinese server numbers.
TQ races have democracy, human rights, free speech.
Can't have that in China now can we?
Kinda pointless, since in 5 minutes, a ISK farmer network guy can route his IPS via a free proxy server in europe, thus defeating the point. There is no point restricting baised upon IP. It just does not work.
Wide use of proxies would mean there would be 25+ players from 1 IP. Easy to catch. Now if they got their own personal proxy for every account... then yeah thats a problem.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: voogru
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 16:22:11
I think a wiser solution to step one would be to prevent Chinese players from running _NEW_ accounts on TQ, since they are intended to play on the Chinese server, not TQ. This would also help the Chinese server numbers.
TQ races have democracy, human rights, free speech.
Can't have that in China now can we?
And here comes voogru again with his racism. "...prevent Chinese players from...".
Dude, what's *your* race anyway?
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:31:00 -
[21]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 16:30:34
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
And here comes voogru again with his racism. "...prevent Chinese players from...".
Dude, what's *your* race anyway?
The purpose of the Chinese server is so Chinese players have a place to play with people that speak their own language. If your a new player to EVE why would they want to play the game in a foreign language when they can play it in their own language.
If you disagree, tell me why you think there is a Chinese server to begin with.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
... I really think CCP should have much more liberal use of the ban stick, particularly with the isk buyers.
I totally agree on that one. Every self proclamed "farmer-killer" admits knowing players that have bought ISK. Petition them! Oh but, wait a second... those friends are not chinese right? So if you are not chinese it is ok for you to buy isk/cheat and stuff right?
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Originally by: Bklyn 1
... I really think CCP should have much more liberal use of the ban stick, particularly with the isk buyers.
I totally agree on that one. Every self proclamed "farmer-killer" admits knowing players that have bought ISK. Petition them! Oh but, wait a second... those friends are not chinese right? So if you are not chinese it is ok for you to buy isk/cheat and stuff right?
I petition anybody I see doing something naughty regardless of race.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: voogru
The purpose of the Chinese server is so Chinese players have a place to play with people that speak their own language. If your a new player to EVE why would they want to play the game in a foreign language when they can play it in their own language.
#1, The creation of the Chinese server was not because of a language issue. It was more of a local goverment issue.
#2, A very big number of EvE's playerbase doesn't have English as their primary language. English is not *my* primary language, nor CCP primary language for that matter.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: voogru
I petition anybody I see doing something naughty regardless of race. If you want proof of this, hit me up ingame.
Cool, keep doing that. Just stop saying that chinese people should be baned, or treated differently in any way.
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
#1, The creation of the Chinese server was not because of a language issue. It was more of a local goverment issue.
So you agree that the Chinese server is for Chinese players?
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Cheunger
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers in these threads. Anyway, not all isk farmers are asian, though let's be honest, some are. I really think CCP should have much more liberal use of the ban stick, particularly with the isk buyers.
I am not defending isk farmers. I haven't bought anything EVE related items from eBay. I'm Chinese and just annoyed at everyone thinking ISK farmers in EVE/Gold farmers in WoW are Chinese, or Asian to be more general.
Originally by: voogru
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 16:22:11
I think a wiser solution to step one would be to prevent Chinese players from running _NEW_ accounts on TQ, since they are intended to play on the Chinese server, not TQ. This would also help the Chinese server numbers.
TQ races have democracy, human rights, free speech.
Can't have that in China now can we?
Yeah, so when I move to Hong Kong from Canada I won't be able to play EVE anymore right?
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
#1, The creation of the Chinese server was not because of a language issue. It was more of a local goverment issue.
So you agree that the Chinese server is for Chinese players?
Don't try to twist things to support your own ideals. Things are what they are and nothing more. If you want to know the whole history of the creation of the chinese server, go and google it up. I'm telling you that "language" was not the reason. If CCP could have entered the chinese market with TQ, they would have done that. But because of local laws of the china goverment, they could not. The decision had nothing to do with language, race, nationality or whatever.
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:47:00 -
[29]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 16:52:03
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Don't try to twist things to support your own ideals. Things are what they are and nothing more. If you want to know the whole history of the creation of the chinese server, go and google it up. I'm telling you that "language" was not the reason. If CCP could have entered the chinese market with TQ, they would have done that. But because of local laws of the china goverment, they could not. The decision had nothing to do with language, race, nationality or whatever.
So whats the point of the Chinese server if a majority of Chinese players just play on TQ anyway? To be a decoration?
Originally by: Cheunger
Yeah, so when I move to Hong Kong from Canada I won't be able to play EVE anymore right?
Keyword: New accounts.
Existing accounts would be allowed to connect from anywhere.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: voogru
So whats the point of the Chinese server if a majority of Chinese players just play on TQ anyway? To be a decoration?
Like I told you, google it up. I'm not doing your work for you.
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Cheunger
Yeah, so when I move to Hong Kong from Canada I won't be able to play EVE anymore right?
Keyword: New accounts.
Existing accounts would be allowed to connect from anywhere.
So just because he is chinese, when his character reaches capital abilities, he can't create a cyno alt?
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:01:00 -
[31]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 17:02:42
Originally by: Cheunger
And if I want to have another account after I move? Am I to be denied the opportunity?
I think you bring up the most legitimate point against limited new Chinese accounts on the TQ server, and probably why it's not the BEST idea.
It's an idea and nothing more. I think theres several more fronts that can be used to attack the farmers rather than this.
But I can imagine such a restriction being forced on CCP if the Chinese server starts to lose money hand over fist because of Chinese players being on TQ anyway.
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
So just because he is chinese, when his character reaches capital abilities, he can't create a cyno alt?
1. It would be more because he's within Chinese borders not because he's Chinese. When your in another country you must abide by their rules regardless of what race you are, if I moved to China I'd be faced with the same problem even though I'm American.
2. Cyno alt, no he'd actually have to work as a team with another player. *Gasp*
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:04:00 -
[32]
Again, this topic is not about race nor racial issues. Its about a country that has its own server that sends players to TQ to (mostly) farm ISK for the purpose of selling for real cash. We cant play there so they shouldnt be allowed to play here either. Ppl with existing accounts should be allowed to stay unless they are getting banned for ISK selling.
As for the IP routing, not all of them are into that stuff hopefully.
(waiting for a dev/gm reply)
Ship lovers click here |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:06:00 -
[33]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Cheunger
And if I want to have another account after I move? Am I to be denied the opportunity?
I think you bring up the most legitimate point against limited new Chinese accounts on the TQ server, and probably why it's not the BEST idea.
It's an idea and nothing more. I think theres several more fronts that can be used to attack the farmers rather than this.
But I can imagine such a restriction being forced on CCP if the Chinese server starts to lose money hand over fist because of Chinese players being on TQ anyway.
Oh yes, start with petitioning the people you know that have bought ISK. Regardless if they are chinese or not.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Again, this topic is not about race nor racial issues. Its about a country that has its own server that sends players to TQ to (mostly) farm ISK for the purpose of selling for real cash. We cant play there so they shouldnt be allowed to play here either. Ppl with existing accounts should be allowed to stay unless they are getting banned for ISK selling.
As for the IP routing, not all of them are into that stuff hopefully.
(waiting for a dev/gm reply)
OK, let me see if I can translate this:
"I'm not against chinese, just against people born in china"
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:11:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 27/06/2007 17:10:31
Originally by: voogru
I'm American.
That explains a lot. Is your head shaved too?
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 27/06/2007 17:10:31
Originally by: voogru
I'm American.
That explains a lot. Is your head shaved too?
And your acusing me of racism?
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Jenai'na
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:18:00 -
[37]
i wish all those huffy puffy anti isk seller crusaders would show the same enthusiasm when it is about saveing the environment.
way to pick a lost cause!
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 27/06/2007 17:10:31
Originally by: voogru
I'm American.
That explains a lot. Is your head shaved too?
And your acusing me of racism?
Oh, so you don't like it? Then why you do it to other people?
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:23:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
OK, let me see if I can translate this:
"I'm not against chinese, just against people born in china"
I didnt say that or do you see me saying that?
Ship lovers click here |
voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:26:00 -
[40]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 17:27:52
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Oh yes, start with petitioning the people you know that have bought ISK. Regardless if they are chinese or not.
I already do this. I don't care what race you are. If you buy ISK and I find out GM's get a little petition sent their way.
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Oh, so you don't like it? Then why you do it to other people?
The idea of restricting Chinese players to the Chinese server is simply that, an idea. And I bet that it would probably happen if the owners of the Chinese server wanted it that way in order to increase their profits. If the Chinese server ever gets in real trouble I bet you it would happen.
The Chinese have laws in their country that govern your gaming, connecting to a server thats not in China to avoid those laws it would make sense for the Chinese to stop people from 'breaking' or avoiding the law.
The Chinese goverment already restricts people from using google and google has their own 'special' version of google for Chinese people, why would they stop at search engines?
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:40:00 -
[41]
Originally by: voogru
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 17:27:52
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Oh yes, start with petitioning the people you know that have bought ISK. Regardless if they are chinese or not.
I already do this. I don't care what race you are. If you buy ISK and I find out GM's get a little petition sent their way.
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Oh, so you don't like it? Then why you do it to other people?
The idea of restricting Chinese players to the Chinese server is simply that, an idea. And I bet that it would probably happen if the owners of the Chinese server wanted it that way in order to increase their profits. If the Chinese server ever gets in real trouble I bet you it would happen.
The Chinese have laws in their country that govern your gaming, connecting to a server thats not in China to avoid those laws it would make sense for the Chinese to stop people from 'breaking' or avoiding the law.
The Chinese goverment already restricts people from using google and google has their own 'special' version of google for Chinese people, why would they stop at search engines?
OK, then I could assume you also know that most isk buyers are americans. It is a known fact. I propose we block american IPs. That should take care of the ISK sellers, since they would not have clients to sell the ISKies to.
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tiewan
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:43:00 -
[42]
We need to nerf isk.
Put so much of it into the game that everyone is a billionaire
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:46:00 -
[43]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 17:47:52
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
OK, then I could assume you also know that most isk buyers are americans. It is a known fact. I propose we block american IPs. That should take care of the ISK sellers, since they would not have clients to sell the ISKies to.
Americans are probably a larger amount of the player base than the Chinese player base, and ISK buyers arent all American.
Point taken though, ISK buyers are just as big of a problem as ISK sellers, which is why educating the ISK buyers that if they buy ISK from ISK sellers they could get lose their ISK and or banned, because a large majority of ISK buyers don't even know it's not allowed, while ISK sellers blatantly know it's not allowed.
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Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
OK, then I could assume you also know that most isk buyers are americans. It is a known fact. I propose we block american IPs. That should take care of the ISK sellers, since they would not have clients to sell the ISKies to.
You mean after they install the America-only server, right?
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:51:00 -
[45]
Shameless, tell me what would happen if CCP would block asian IPs. Just think about it for a minute and then tell us. Just think about the consequences for TQ.
Ship lovers click here |
eveplayer11
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:11:00 -
[46]
people whining about kids needing to feed their family by farming game currency to sell: ITS NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!!11eleventyeleven1
more bans, a seperate macro/isk farmer petition line would be nice. and less investigation, they dont seem to work very good anyway.. 
some have existed for years, atleast force name changes on them if their "innocent" witch i highly doubt cause of the 23/7 operations.... if their not guilty of macroing/isk farming their sure guilty of account charing... and stupid names.. i got my changed so shouldnt be that hard to change someone called: asjdf etc..
agree completely about step 4.
buurn them all... 
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:18:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Caios on 27/06/2007 18:18:23
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Shameless, tell me what would happen if CCP would block asian IPs. Just think about it for a minute and then tell us. Just think about the consequences for TQ.
For starters, quite a few asian players both in and out of asia, myself included, would quit in disgust.
The distinction being brought up between racism and discrimination by country is splitting hairs at best.
Either way you are torching a village to catch a pickpocket, making broad generalizations about a large part of the world and purposefuly exluding a segment of players by association (a tenuous association at that) alone.
The presence of a separate server is no excuse to deny people a choice that they would otherwise have.
OPs can play "it was just the tip!" and deny racism all he wants, but that doesn't mean that it or a similar mindset is not showing up in this "proposal."
I'm sick of these ******* witchhunts.
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:21:00 -
[48]
Edited by: voogru on 27/06/2007 18:23:05
Originally by: Caios
OPs can play "it was just the tip!" and deny racism all he wants, but that doesn't mean that it or a similar mindset is not showing up in this "proposal."
I'm sick of these ******* witchhunts.
I believe your alliance is paid about 1 billion ISK a week to harbor farmers within the alliance. So your obviously against banning them because you would lose your cash cow.
Originally by: Your alliance Leader
2007.06.14 05:27
Sir, chinese sweatshops put rice on tables and roofs over heads !
Also there is nothing funnier than having people pay you a billion a week to npc in delve.
Hell, they are a cash cow for me too but I still want em banned.
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:24:00 -
[49]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Caios
OPs can play "it was just the tip!" and deny racism all he wants, but that doesn't mean that it or a similar mindset is not showing up in this "proposal."
I'm sick of these ******* witchhunts.
I believe your alliance is paid about 1 billion ISK a week to harbor farmers within the alliance. So your obviously against banning them because you would lose your cash cow.
Hell, they are a cash cow for me too but I still want em banned.
And you obviously have nothing constructive to add to the debate, but an ad hominem attack based on a generalization.
Think.
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:33:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Caios
And you obviously have nothing constructive to add to the debate, but an ad hominem attack based on a generalization.
Think.
Your alliance leader admits to me that they are probably farmers but allows them in the alliance cause they pay a fee. I never said Chinese, he did.
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:41:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Caios on 27/06/2007 18:41:23
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Caios
And you obviously have nothing constructive to add to the debate, but an ad hominem attack based on a generalization.
Think.
Your alliance leader admits to me that they are probably farmers but allows them in the alliance cause they pay a fee. I never said Chinese, he did.
Credibility of that statement aside, you've now graduated to non-sequiturs. You gonna straw man next?
I've got news for ya: individual != alliance. Least not IAC.
Go back under the bridge now.
Either way, the point still stands that an act to exclude a swath of the population based purely on geography may not fit the dictionary definition of racism, but it sure as hell is discrimination.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 08:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Shameless, tell me what would happen if CCP would block asian IPs. Just think about it for a minute and then tell us. Just think about the consequences for TQ.
I can tell you what would happen. 5 minutes later, the same people would log back in via a free european proxy. Or use a Zombie botnet to act as proxy servers.
Anyhow asia is a big place. The China Server was meant for the Chinese, however I dont know if TQ forwards requests to the chinese server, or even if they are already using proxy's.
And china does not always have the biggist isk farmers in eve. For example, a certain Brittish individual scammer from a well known scammer bank got his accounts banned after selling billions on ebay, or so he claimed.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Anglo
Minmatar
Astral Mexicans
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Posted - 2007.06.28 08:34:00 -
[53]
dear ccp could u plz do something serious soon about the rasicm we keep seing on these boards. and a ban from forum aint enough, u should consider a temp ban ingame also. 1 week to start of with maybe.
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Tonkin
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.28 08:45:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Tonkin on 28/06/2007 08:45:57
Edited by: Tonkin on 28/06/2007 08:44:41
ban china playing eve yep i agree with that.they got ther own server
isk farmer get on my t*ts
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Bu Jinkan
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.28 08:48:00 -
[55]
There's a dirty secret about isk farmers that no one talks about. It's the reason why CCP doesn't ***** down on them harder. And it's the reason why everyone needs to chill out about isk farmers.
Isk farming macrominers are critical to prevent the eve economy from collapsing.
One example is ice. Ice takes a ridiculously long time to mine. And POSes need a lot of ice to keep running. In fact, large 0.0 alliances need so much ice that they regularly buy up entire markets worth of it in Empire. If the macro ice miners disappear, so does the ice they mine. The result? Fuel prices will spike ridiculously high, to the point where 0.0 space is basically unusuable until CCP fixes the whole thing.
Another are low-end minerals. Anyone who takes a cursory glance at Empire asteroid belts can tell that they're pretty much empty these days except for strangely named characters like "sglv 05." Mining is ridiculously boring and tedious. Mining in empire is even worse, because the amount of money you make off of the minerals is next to nothing. The Drone Regions fiasco can illustrate the exact problem.
1. Massive numbers of macromining isk farmers moved their operations into the drone regions and other 0.0 areas, where the isk was more plentiful.
2. As a result, the prices of high end minerals plummeted, while tritanium spiked. The endgame was a severe eve economic recession, probably the first of its kind. High price tritanium is an extremely difficult situation for manufacturers, and entire regions were rendered nearly worthless thanks to crokite's devaluation. (Zydrine's price fall, of course, can be directly laid at the feet of the introduction of the Drone Regions. Isk farmers are a large presence in the drone regions, but not so large as the rest of the player base. Whether they output more minerals from their neverending droning sprees is up for debate.)
This illustrates the massive impact macrominers have on eve. When they stopped farming lowend minerals, the prices spiked and caused a recession. If ice is ever totally removed from Empire, we can expect similar repercussions. And if macrominers are removed entirely? I suspect that CCP will have to find new incentives to get players mining in high sec.
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Tonkin
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.28 08:53:00 -
[56]
bleh might aswell do that ban them all, makes pos wars easier. makes fueling harder, makes the market mean something, and gets people more involved in market politics, contracts will get more involved.
and if the market depands kills whats actually there, ccp can simply change what comes out ice roids.
eve ran before macrominers why cant it now
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Anglo
Minmatar
Astral Mexicans
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Posted - 2007.06.28 08:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tonkin
Edited by: Tonkin on 28/06/2007 08:45:57
Edited by: Tonkin on 28/06/2007 08:44:41
ban china playing eve yep i agree with that.they got ther own server
isk farmer get on my t*ts
are u a member of *** ? i meen since u keep blaming an entire nation with your ignorance.
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Bosjathfort
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.06.28 09:02:00 -
[58]
The only solution would be BANNIN the actual ISK farmers + ISK buyers permanently :P... but as the result, CCP will lose probably 1/3 of their subscripters due to this kind of actions :P...
PS: WTS clue to that voorxxx thingy lol 
\\(^O^ )// o/ \o !!null |
Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.06.28 09:43:00 -
[59]
most of us are picking at the chinesse ISK sellers disable their IP and push them onto their allocated legal server
Rest of asia is welcome on TQ
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Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.28 10:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step one:
Disable asian IPs to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
Do you realize that Asia =! China?
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step two:
Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann)
Unless there is effective way to punish abuse of this option, I don't like it. Everyone and my dog will report their enemies as farmers. Besides, it should be always GM who decides who is farmer based on some factual evidence, not on crap like weird name or not answering someone's convos.
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step three:
Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there)
This is good idea, however reporting spam via petition takes maybe 1 minute more. Spammers are usually removed by GMs pretty quickly anyway.
TBH I will rather live with few farmers than with some witch-hunting mania and GMs banning everyone based on weak evidence or player submitted petitions.
_________
Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings
Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components
T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Callente Riveara
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 12:02:00 -
[61]
i dont understand the huge vendetta against these guys..
Everyone ALWAYS finds a way to exploit something, and this is no different. This isnt hurting anyone, as Eve's market is OPEN (meaning there is no set limit of ISK or ITEMS), besides possibly skewing prices of minerals and ore. If they are making money off of sitting in a belt, mining all day and night, let em do it. If you want to hunt each and every one of them down and destroy them, thats fine too. (Although IMO, waste of time, because they are just going to keep coming back).
I dont support these farmers, but then again, I dont think CCP needs to "nerf" anything in order to get rid of them, because in the end, whatever they do will affect us ALL.
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Le Jackal
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Posted - 2007.06.28 12:33:00 -
[62]
Please don't laugh at this for a concept, could end up being fun.
How about we set up an inter-allaiance (yes all alliances) coalition for the erradication of isk farmers. sort of one weekend per quarter where every alliance gets together and wipes out the isk farmers, the loot/ore/salvage etc is divied fairly, then after 24 hrs of the quarterly op normal gameplay continues.
clearly this would need good co-rdination so as not to fully blob out a system, but the hauling pipe could get blobbed out.
just a suggestion, you know, eve players take the law into their own hands.
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 13:05:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 13:06:31
Since everyone knows the main issue is the demand for isk, we should likewise eliminate isk buying on TQ by banning American IPs and setting up a separate server where they can do whatever the hell they want. After all, that's where the vast majority of buyers hail from.
This approach would actually produce more definitive results than going after the supply side, since even after excluding all of China from the international server, farming operations would simply materialize elsewhere. With a large segment of the population involved in such activities sequestered, the problem would be at least contained.
It is understandable that many Americans would be upset by this in some way, but again, if we still have our own server to play on I don't see what the problem is. The problem on TQ is simply too great to be ignored, and deserves decisive action.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari
Farmer Killers
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.06.28 13:05:00 -
[64]
*KNOWN* alliances to harbor isk famers:
Red Alliance
Goonswarm
BOB
IAC
CVA
None of the above will blue us because we would go patrol their space and gank their isk farmers that send them billions a week.
They give all kinds of excuses....
Red Alliance just blues the individual corps and when we wardec them they defend them despite proof they are obviously isk farmers.
Half of the problem are alliance leaders that profit from them knowingly, they need to be permabanned... watch how fast we get requested blue standings
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Whineroy
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Posted - 2007.06.28 13:17:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Caios
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 13:06:31
Since everyone knows the main issue is the demand for isk, we should likewise eliminate isk buying on TQ by banning American IPs and setting up a separate server where they can do whatever the hell they want. After all, that's where the vast majority of buyers hail from.
Gotta love all these dimwits who insist that ISK farmers themselves are doing nothing wrong, despite there being dev- level evidence that ISK farming itself causes major problems even without anyone buying ISK... See http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=437
Read it and stop being clueless, hypocritical or both. Thank you.
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 13:22:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 13:36:17
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 13:34:37
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 13:23:43
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 13:21:29
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Caios
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 13:06:31
Since everyone knows the main issue is the demand for isk, we should likewise eliminate isk buying on TQ by banning American IPs and setting up a separate server where they can do whatever the hell they want. After all, that's where the vast majority of buyers hail from.
Gotta love all these dimwits who insist that ISK farmers themselves are doing nothing wrong, despite there being dev- level evidence that ISK farming itself causes major problems even without anyone buying ISK... See http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=437
Read it and stop being clueless, hypocritical or both. Thank you.
Clueless? You are the one that does not seem to realize that this is a doublesided problem. That blog's been around for a while, and the arguments aren't all that new. Isk sellers exist purely because they have someone to sell to. If you eliminate the demand, then the farming will cease. Look at serenity, no buyers, no farmers, no problem.
EDIT: Okay, well it's got lots of other problems, but at least farming's not one of them. Seriously, do you think farmers will sit around and grind isk all day trying to sell to no one? 
Assumptions and personal attacks don't lead anywhere.
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Big Al
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 13:31:00 -
[67]
As long as there is a demand for isk there will be sellers.
It's like trying to spray air freshener on a dead cow, all it does is make it smell a little better.
CLEAN UP THE COW.
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 13:39:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
#1, The creation of the Chinese server was not because of a language issue. It was more of a local goverment issue.
Because they had to remove the Gallenteans since they are democratic. Right? 
------
--Don't get saucy with me Bernaise!-- |
barvo
7th Space Cavalry
Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 13:39:00 -
[69]
I say nerf "racism" as the forum i-Win button. You just shout "racism" and, what, everyone else has to shut up, for fear of being banned for racism?
You cannot deny that this is a topic that needs discussion. If it comes up that a proportion of isk farmers are from where-ever, that makes this racism, and therefore a no go topic? Sorry, don't agree. This happens in real life too, people avoid discussing a topic that needs addressing by playing the "this is racism" card.
Anyway, to the point. More needs to be done, more can be done, but it won't be done by CCP. They can't spare the time to investigate isk-seller reports and macro farmer reports properly while they have to deal with "stuck" petitions and reimbursement petitions and bugs and what-not.
There are some things that i think can be done.
1. Alliance leaders and Corp CEOs should kick anyone found to be an isk-farmer or isk-buyer.
2. Anti-farmer corps and bored pirates should continue their vendetta against the macroers and isk sellers.
3. More people sharing info about the characters, a kind of shared Kill-On-Sight-list.
Player power works better than anything else. But I doubt point 1 will be taken seriously, when you can see the examples being set by RA, IAC and (formerly) XS. It's just the dollar signs, y'know, they're so preeeety.
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 14:04:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
#1, The creation of the Chinese server was not because of a language issue. It was more of a local goverment issue.
Because they had to remove the Gallenteans since they are democratic. Right?
Considering Tranq is still and always has been perfectly accessible for Chinese players, I think the reason was maybe overcrowding or some of the new anti-addiction laws they have in place for minors. The censors don't give a **** about democracy showing up anywhere, just anything that links democracy with China.
Originally by: barvo
I say nerf "racism" as the forum i-Win button. You just shout "racism" and, what, everyone else has to shut up, for fear of being banned for racism?
The race card is played every time someone goes out of their way to slap the term "Chinese" on Chinese farmers, much like is done with Arab terrorists, black felons, and jewish bankers. It's played every time someone thinks it's a good idea to blacklist an entire country based on a generalization. It doesn't matter if the intent is not completely racially motivated, the effect is the same.
I love this game, and hate the isk trade. It's just disturbing to see the behavior of the mob, how legitimate Chinese corps and every player whose english isn't the best have to go out of their way to "prove" their legitimacy, and how people scream ban at an entire country and are completely unapologetic about it.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari
Farmer Killers
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.06.28 15:35:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Caios
I love this game, and hate the isk trade. It's just disturbing to see the behavior of the mob, how legitimate Chinese corps and every player whose english isn't the best have to go out of their way to "prove" their legitimacy, and how people scream ban at an entire country and are completely unapologetic about it.
Tell your alliance leaders to stop harboring them in catch... and let UCAM come in and clean them up.
But, see.... IAC loses isk when UCAM goes down to catch and ganks isk farmers and then we end up fighting IAC because we 'shot your alliance members' (That are ISK FARMERS..)
Bob refuses to blue us, citing that if we tell them that we are hunting isk farmers then the members are supposed to disengage - FAT CHANCE bob shoots at me despite what I say.
IAC, BOB, and RA are by far the worst isk farmer protectors in game.
We contacted a few other alliance leaders, presented evidence and the corps were booted immediately.
IAC? fat chance... RA? nope...
Bob just lets them pay rent, and blues them...
They do protect them to a degree.... but not half as bad as IAC and RA.....
Get your house in order... then tell me again how much you like eve?
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 15:56:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 15:58:04
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 15:56:04
Originally by: Loyal Servant
Originally by: Caios
I love this game, and hate the isk trade. It's just disturbing to see the behavior of the mob, how legitimate Chinese corps and every player whose english isn't the best have to go out of their way to "prove" their legitimacy, and how people scream ban at an entire country and are completely unapologetic about it.
Tell your alliance leaders to stop harboring them in catch... and let UCAM come in and clean them up.
But, see.... IAC loses isk when UCAM goes down to catch and ganks isk farmers and then we end up fighting IAC because we 'shot your alliance members' (That are ISK FARMERS..)
Bob refuses to blue us, citing that if we tell them that we are hunting isk farmers then the members are supposed to disengage - FAT CHANCE bob shoots at me despite what I say.
IAC, BOB, and RA are by far the worst isk farmer protectors in game.
We contacted a few other alliance leaders, presented evidence and the corps were booted immediately.
IAC? fat chance... RA? nope...
Bob just lets them pay rent, and blues them...
They do protect them to a degree.... but not half as bad as IAC and RA.....
Get your house in order... then tell me again how much you like eve?
Yeah, I'll get right on that, I have such a large say in what the higher ups decide on.
I've personally never seen the farmers in my region of catch. I'll take your word for it that they exist. Believe it or not, not all members of an alliance, corp or individual, necessarily condone all the actions of the alliance leadership.
What gets me now is that I've expressed concern for the disturbing racial/ethnic/whatever undertones that accompany the movement against farmers, expressed concern about the way in which Chinese players are being looked at and treated, and that somehow makes me a supporter of isk farming, like those pinko-commies who dared propose that the front of the bus should be open to everyone (yeah, exaggeration, but the feelings similar).
I don't think that alliance tag under my avatar has much bearing on the points I'm trying to make. If it meant the real end of all this crap being leveled against Chinese players, I would gladly leave IAC and find another home. But that won't do a damn thing, and the problem continues.
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Mari Onette
Amarr
Gottland Production Transport Mines
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Posted - 2007.06.28 16:04:00 -
[73]
Step 1: Racism
Step 2: Invent a petition system (oh wait, we have one, its called harassment.)
Step 3: F12, followed by step 2
Step 4: .....profit!
I do like step 4, but your other steps already exist, and step 1 is blatantly racist.
Why dont we have a Concord blotter where we can see whos been banned for what? Don't we as players have a right to know who is breaking the rules? I understand that there needs to be privacy involved in petitions, but if someone had been banned for a week for selling isk, or exploiting, or ganking newbs, I'd like to be able to KNOW about it before they join my corp. I know we have tools for doing a background check on characters (security status) but we have no effective methods of doing background checks for player's who cheat.
------
I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over.
-MacBeth |
Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 16:24:00 -
[74]
The best solution is if CCP make game mechanics that let people kill each other more effectively.
A lot of people want to kill isk farmers, but there are no effective means.
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 16:36:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ephemeron
The best solution is if CCP make game mechanics that let people kill each other more effectively.
A lot of people want to kill isk farmers, but there are no effective means.
Well, it's not a really good idea to change normal game mechanics to deal with a problem that is fundamentally cheating and EULA violating in nature. Plus they'll always come back anyway.
The 1-click reporting thing is something that should have been done long ago. Also maybe push the whole GTC method of isk acquisition a little more to undercut the illegal sellers. A lot of people don't like GTC sales either, but at least it's under control and tight supervision.
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.28 16:48:00 -
[76]
Just for the record, I can tell from personal experience that Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate alliance is supporting isk farmers in Delve. It may not be true, but I have been observing the situation for months. The people that operated in Venal got into IAC and moved to Delve.
I wish it wasn't true, as they are supposed to be our allies.
There is no better solution than empowering the players to do what they feel is right. And if ISK Farmers can fight and defend themselves, then I'll respect their strength.
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Aceoil
Murder-Death-Kill
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 16:52:00 -
[77]
Theoretical Argument:
To combat ISK sellers, CCP decides to sell ISK themselves.
CCP makes money, and can undercut the ISK selling farmer businesses.
Once all the ISK farmers are gone, CCP can look at their wallets and decide to cancel ISK selling, or continue to sell ISK.
A.) If CCP stops selling ISK, the farmers come back, and then CCP starts to sell ISK again, they continue to play this game of cat and mouse until EvE is over.
B.) If CCP just keeps on selling ISK. The forums fill with "I quit" messages cause rich people are getting ahead in the game, and ingame inflation is out of control. Only the rich can afford the good modules cause of the high inflation. Modules and ships are expensive ALSO because there are less basic materials on the market to build them with. Can you imagine tritanium being sold at 10 ISK / unit? Then CCP has to basically seed all T1 & T2 modules & basic materials on the market at a fixed price to try and keep inflation undercontrol.
But at least CCP has more cash to buy more servers.
ISK farmers help keep prices down. If they are gone. The market will triple in price overnight as people begin to hoard materials. They are a necessary evil in a game with an open market and CCP knows this.
Quit complaining.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.06.28 16:54:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step one:
Disable asian IPs to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
Disable Asian IPs huh? Yeah, because companies are ever so eager to drive away paying customers because they are of a certain ethnicity. Lets ban all the non-English speaking nations as well, I'm tired of seeing those little blocks because I don't have the language packs installed.
Quote:
Step two:
Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann)
Petition it as normal, its not going to be an instant ban as you suggest, because a system like this will be exploited by everyone and their cousin with a beef against another player. You killed my 25 billion Mothership? I'll petition you as an ISK Farmer and get you banzed from the game. I win, yay!
Quote:
Step three:
Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there)
No, its needless clutter on the right-click menus; Block them, and copy and paste their player names in a petition. Its not hard.
Quote:
Step four:
GMs make a detailed (!) monthly report about their efforts in their fight against ISK farmers, sellers and buyers.
So you want the GMs to put themselves under legal scrutiny for harassment and legal defamation of these players just so you can feel better? No, it will never happen. The closest thing I've seen to this in any game is a rough # of how many punishments have been handed out, by category. No details, no names, nothing specific.
And you would be wise to realize that reports for a game of this size will take a good chunk out of their ISK farming/selling/buying fighting time, just to hold your hand and make you feel better.
Quote:
I see them everyday and I¦m sick of it. The fact that many players report them and have evidence (voogru¦s page 4tw) and the GMs let them continue to farm and destroy our market. Threads about macro¦s, gold seller and farmer vanish into the forum abyss or get locked but no real answers come from the higher parties. We are told to have patience, to report them but nothing really happens.
We all get spammed with the ISK selling eve-mails, its a fact of life in EVE. Do I want them to stop? Sure, but its not something that I'm going to waste my time getting worked up over. Its not our market, it their market. Its their game, and they can play ball however they want. What you are asking for is for them to waste their time making you feel better with regards to their efforts.
No game should ever ban people because a player or players says that someone is breaking the EULA. Proof should always be mandatory, and if CCP cannot prove that people are using third part programs to make their ISK, they should not ban them. Think you know better than CCP? I'd like to see some proof behind this if so.
Quote:
Devs, GMs, dont we deserve some better answers? Or are you that greedy already that you dont bann them cuz you loose money? Give us some answers plz.
Of course they don't just hand out bans, they are a company ffs. Money is what EVE was made to make, if it didn't make money, there would be no EVE. I'm not sure what fantasy world you live in, but your mom misses you and wants you to wake up.
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Callente Riveara
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.06.28 16:59:00 -
[79]
face the facts here...
There is, and will never be, a way to stop ISK farmers. It happens in EVERY MMOG! Go ahead, go to google and type in WoW gold, Everquest Gold (dunno if they use gold), EVE Isk..
your going to come up with a website selling the ISK for cash. Is there any way to catch em? Probably not.
Are you wasting time petitioning and complaining, Most likely.
If you think an Alliance is harboring Isk Farmers, and you dont care for it, then dont play with, or go fight, that alliance if you so choose.
Disabling Asian, American, Mars, Tatooine, ISPs from playing the game is not going to help anything, rather it'll hurt the game because CCP will lose the income from the said ISP users.
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.06.28 17:04:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 27/06/2007 15:42:11
Step one:
Disable asian IPs to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
The only reason we can't play is because well, they don't make multi-lingual support. :P So, wtf kind of PR move is that for CCP making money? They would never do this.
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step two:
Add an option to petition ISK farmers in the petition system (identify and bann)
Ok, but its hard to prove, they could just respond they are ratting or mission running like you or me.
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Step three:
Add an option to the rightclick menu to report spammers (like in WoW, it works pretty good there)
BUT FOR GODS SAKE!!! Make sure there is a confirm button so people can't fake report this! (if it even gets added)
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Devs, GMs, dont we deserve some better answers? Or are you that greedy already that you dont bann them cuz you loose money? Give us some answers plz.
There is nothing people can do to prevent people from farming. As long as they aren't macroing and somebody is actually AT the computer, you can't force them to stop. They pay their monthly fee, and thats it. The only thing CCP can do is catch and take legal action against ISK selling websites and track large scale money transactions via give money. However, taking legal action in a different country goes over international bounds and that just causes ALL kinds of legal issues I'm sure they don't want to deal with all they could do is ban accounts for suspicious activity. and they will just start it all over again with a new account. Hell, they probably have a TON of accounts anyway just in case. :P
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.28 17:18:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Donathan Slade
There is nothing people can do to prevent people from farming. As long as they aren't macroing and somebody is actually AT the computer, you can't force them to stop. They pay their monthly fee, and thats it. The only thing CCP can do is catch and take legal action against ISK selling websites and track large scale money transactions via give money. However, taking legal action in a different country goes over international bounds and that just causes ALL kinds of legal issues I'm sure they don't want to deal with all they could do is ban accounts for suspicious activity. and they will just start it all over again with a new account. Hell, they probably have a TON of accounts anyway just in case. :P
Pilots that have glibberish names, in NPC corps, crap fittings that do missions or mine 32/7 with eachother..... that is not normal. Even alt corps with normal players have normal names and right fittings. You can enter a system, look through local and can identify with a 80% chance just by looking at some names. Those are the farmers that wire their ISK for RL sales. I fight them whenever I can in low sec (I was at 5.2 when I started).
If you dont fight them, you support them.
Ship lovers click here |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.06.28 17:25:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Pilots that have glibberish names,
Like Hellspawn01?
Quote:
in NPC corps,
I know people who've been playing since beta that are still in NPC corps. Being in a player corp means jack.
Quote:
crap fittings
Maybe they can't afford better?
Quote:
that do missions or mine 32/7 with eachother.....
I'd like to see a 32 hour day.
Quote:
that is not normal.
Who are you to say what is and is not normal?
Quote:
Those are the farmers that wire their ISK for RL sales. I fight them whenever I can in low sec (I was at 5.2 when I started).
Uh huh, proof or STFU.
Quote:
If you dont fight them, you support them.
"ISK Farmers are terrorists!" Just get out, I'm sick of you advocating the punishment of everyone just to deal with the few and the harmless.
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Tenebrion Darkness
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Posted - 2007.06.28 18:16:00 -
[83]
I think he meant all those things in conjuction with each other points towards being a farmer.
Aceoil, what? The GTC for isk shouldn't lead to inflation, as far as I can tell. The isk is already in someones wallet, they are just using it to buy game time instead of a ship, module, etc.
And isk farmers keeping prices down? They "flood" the market with isk, which in turn allows people to spend even more on items, thus causing prices to go up because people will see that they can sell for higher and still have those that will pay because they have the aforementioned farmed isk.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.06.28 18:22:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Tenebrion Darkness
I think he meant all those things in conjuction with each other points towards being a farmer.
Aceoil, what? The GTC for isk shouldn't lead to inflation, as far as I can tell. The isk is already in someones wallet, they are just using it to buy game time instead of a ship, module, etc.
And isk farmers keeping prices down? They "flood" the market with isk, which in turn allows people to spend even more on items, thus causing prices to go up because people will see that they can sell for higher and still have those that will pay because they have the aforementioned farmed isk.
There is no inflation with ISK selling, you are not making something out of thing air (as one would with a nation just printing "more" money.). GTC is proof of this, ISK changes hands and the seller gets something with an out-of-game value.
To argue that ISK farmers cause inflation is kind of a moot point. Games like EVE are forever driving head long towards inflation as each and every player is making ISK appear out of no where whenever they do missions/collect ransoms on NPC rats. So, technically speaking, CCP could keep all these ISK farmers under their thumb by adding more ISK sinks to remove ISK from the game in an unrecoverable way and all will be fine.
And just so everyone is clear, GTC is fundementally no different than selling ISK, the only true difference is that in GTC selling, CCP gets a taste.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.28 18:30:00 -
[85]
Macrominers do impact the price of veldspar. However this is veldspar and I don't expect too many people care. In fact since it renders high security mining less profitable I expect a few people are probably glad.
As for stopping chinese players playing on TQ, if the great firewall of china isn't stopping them what do you expect CCP to do? Ever heard of proxies masking ip addresses?
-----
Currently playing: Hello Kitty Online
Character: Evil Kitty of DEATH |
Cheunger
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.06.28 18:32:00 -
[86]
Inflation? I see prices going down :P
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.28 19:40:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Caios
Edited by: Caios on 28/06/2007 13:06:31
Since everyone knows the main issue is the demand for isk, we should likewise eliminate isk buying on TQ by banning American IPs and setting up a separate server where they can do whatever the hell they want. After all, that's where the vast majority of buyers hail from.
Gotta love all these dimwits who insist that ISK farmers themselves are doing nothing wrong, despite there being dev- level evidence that ISK farming itself causes major problems even without anyone buying ISK... See http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=437
Read it and stop being clueless, hypocritical or both. Thank you.
I don't know what dimwits are, but just in case, your....!
With that said, please get down from the pink cloud you are living, thinking that isk farmers don't sell the isk.
And second, no dev or ccp employee is going to accept that isk buying is wrong because <drums sounding> GTC and Farmed Character Sales! They will be shooting themselves in the foot. And the new forum along with it.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.28 21:28:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 28/06/2007 21:29:33
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Pilots that have glibberish names,
Like Hellspawn01?
Names you cant spell unlike mine. Besides the number, I do have massive standings and a long employment history unlike most of the farmers that reside only in NPC corps.
Quote:
I know people who've been playing since beta that are still in NPC corps. Being in a player corp means jack.
I know some of those aswell, but the farmers that I¦ve watched are very different. They dont chat at all, not even in their NPC corp channel what beta players do.
Quote:
that do missions or mine 32/7 with eachother.....
Small typo. It should be 23/7.
Quote:
Who are you to say what is and is not normal?
You never wondered why many pilots never speak, are online 23/7 and do the ssame stuff every day, every hour in the same way?
Quote:
Uh huh, proof or STFU.
Linkage
Linkage
Quote:
"ISK Farmers are terrorists!" Just get out, I'm sick of you advocating the punishment of everyone just to deal with the few and the harmless.
Post again when you understand the whole issue.
Ship lovers click here |
Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.29 02:35:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Caios
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
#1, The creation of the Chinese server was not because of a language issue. It was more of a local goverment issue.
Because they had to remove the Gallenteans since they are democratic. Right?
Considering Tranq is still and always has been perfectly accessible for Chinese players, I think the reason was maybe overcrowding or some of the new anti-addiction laws they have in place for minors. The censors don't give a **** about democracy showing up anywhere, just anything that links democracy with China.
Odd, as I recall the Chinese government banning SWA (or invoking some restrictions concerning it) due to the fact that you could vote for a mayor in the game. As it was some time ago, I can't remember correctly, but it was something like that.
------
--Don't get saucy with me Bernaise!-- |
Andrahkon
UNITED STARS ORGANISATION
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Posted - 2007.06.29 02:51:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Andrahkon on 29/06/2007 02:50:48
It only needs an client-based chat-/mail-filter, best one with reg-expressions with enabling/disabling for every channel separately.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Selling Carrier with fuel and Mods - preorders accepted |
Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.29 03:53:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Caios
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
#1, The creation of the Chinese server was not because of a language issue. It was more of a local goverment issue.
Because they had to remove the Gallenteans since they are democratic. Right?
Considering Tranq is still and always has been perfectly accessible for Chinese players, I think the reason was maybe overcrowding or some of the new anti-addiction laws they have in place for minors. The censors don't give a **** about democracy showing up anywhere, just anything that links democracy with China.
Odd, as I recall the Chinese government banning SWA (or invoking some restrictions concerning it) due to the fact that you could vote for a mayor in the game. As it was some time ago, I can't remember correctly, but it was something like that.
Dunno, but wouldn't be surprised. Sounds like something some provincial bigshot would pull. In a word, the censorship is inconsistent. BBC is blocked one day, back up another, for no apparent reason, etc etc.
I've got this book sitting on my desk right now from a while back I grabbed on Nanjing street. Translated essays from great American thinkers on liberty and democracy. Bigass liberty bell on the front. There's an open admiration of western democracies, though primarily for their legal systems. Most, though, don't think China could pull it off, yet.
aaaanyway, all beside the point, as tranq is is definitley accessible from China without much problems.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.29 10:50:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 29/06/2007 10:48:46
Anti addiction article:
Quote:
April 11, 2007
Eight Chinese government ministries have jointly issued a circular on the promotion and implementation of the anti- addiction system on all computer games in the country.
The eight departments are General Administration of Press and Publication, Central Civilization Office, Ministry of Education, Chinese Communist Youth League, Ministry of Information Industry, Ministry of Public Security, All China Women's Federation, and China's Care for the Next Generation Work Commission. According to their joint circular, the anti-addiction system will be promoted among all computer games in China starting April 15 and fully implemented from July 16, 2007.
Kou Xiaowei, a deputy director from China's General Administration of Press and Publication, has told local media that the anti-addiction system will target all the computer games run in China. From April 15 to June 15, the computer game enterprises will be asked to develop the anti-addiction system for their games in accordance with the Computer Game Anti-addiction System Development Standard released by GAPP, from June 15 to July 15 they will be asked to test their systems and from July 16, they will formally put the systems into operation. Kou says that the system is only designed for teenagers so that they don't spend so much time playing games.
In June 2005, China issued the Computer Game Anti-addiction System Development Standard and Computer Game Anti-addiction System Real Name Certification Measure. Data shows that China had 31.12 million computer game players in 2006, but less than 50% of those were teenagers.
If CCP has evidence that many and I mean really many players from those regions that fall under this law play eve longer than allowed, will they take steps against this? I mean, in their country they break the law if they play all day, right? But the server is located in europe. How does it change it?
Ship lovers click here |
Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.29 11:57:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 29/06/2007 11:56:01
You know guys. There's a much simpler way to deal with isk farmers. Once you find one, just rat and farm in his system too. While one or two may, try to drive you off with their Ravens and all, it's been my experiance that most are not the best of PvPers.
So rather then sit back crying for CCP to do something that's nigh on impossible to fix at the moment, get off your ass and start working their systems, if you force one isk farmer to SS or log, you are disrupting their isk gathering.
It might not be a hard kill, but a 'soft kill' will damage their activities. If we do it enough, then perhaps they will look to moving to another game
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Kuritorisu
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.06.29 12:48:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 27/06/2007 15:42:11
Step one:
Disable asian IPs to access TQ (we cant play there so they cant play here)
Wow. All of Asia huh? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/LocationAsia.png I thought Russians could play Eve, or are you confusing China and Asia in your narrow minded view of the world? Maybe the reason that "Threads about macro¦s, gold seller and farmer vanish into the forum abyss or get locked but no real answers come from the higher parties." is because you start a thread with some good old fashioned ignorance and expect CCP to ban 60% of the worlds population.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.29 12:59:00 -
[95]
That's the <some country> public education system, at it's finest.
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Caios
Caldari
Unified Refining Federation
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.29 13:06:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Caios on 29/06/2007 13:12:54
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 29/06/2007 10:48:46
Anti addiction article:
Quote:
April 11, 2007
Eight Chinese government ministries have jointly issued a circular on the promotion and implementation of the anti- addiction system on all computer games in the country.
The eight departments are General Administration of Press and Publication, Central Civilization Office, Ministry of Education, Chinese Communist Youth League, Ministry of Information Industry, Ministry of Public Security, All China Women's Federation, and China's Care for the Next Generation Work Commission. According to their joint circular, the anti-addiction system will be promoted among all computer games in China starting April 15 and fully implemented from July 16, 2007.
Kou Xiaowei, a deputy director from China's General Administration of Press and Publication, has told local media that the anti-addiction system will target all the computer games run in China. From April 15 to June 15, the computer game enterprises will be asked to develop the anti-addiction system for their games in accordance with the Computer Game Anti-addiction System Development Standard released by GAPP, from June 15 to July 15 they will be asked to test their systems and from July 16, they will formally put the systems into operation. Kou says that the system is only designed for teenagers so that they don't spend so much time playing games.
In June 2005, China issued the Computer Game Anti-addiction System Development Standard and Computer Game Anti-addiction System Real Name Certification Measure. Data shows that China had 31.12 million computer game players in 2006, but less than 50% of those were teenagers.
If CCP has evidence that many and I mean really many players from those regions that fall under this law play eve longer than allowed, will they take steps against this? I mean, in their country they break the law if they play all day, right? But the server is located in europe. How does it change it?
oooh. so banning them is now for their own good?
work shall set you free, eh?
The system they have in place puts no hard limits on playing time, but adds provisions for limiting player level gain after a certain time period. Considering that EVE doesn't work that way, and the addiction measure is targetted toward minors primarily in internet cafes where software restrictions beyond actually modifying the game itself are possible, people who are paid to play are not effected at all.
In other words, none of the preexisting conditions in China concerning EVE and gaming in general justify excluding the entire country. Give it up.
You want to deal with isk sellers, you'll have to deal just like all other EULA violators: on an individual basis. If they aren't just gamers who just happen to be foreigners, kill them, petition them, whatever. Don't punish people by stereotypes and tenuous associations.
Man, this thread needs to die.
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Big Al
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2007.06.29 13:17:00 -
[97]
As long as they can keep making money at it they will keep finding new US/EU proxies.
The best solution is making npc encounters such that you actually need to think about what you're doing. They are doing this with removing the belts and such. Not sure how effective it will be at curbing the farmers though.
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Christari Zuborov
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Posted - 2007.06.29 13:38:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Big Al
As long as they can keep making money at it they will keep finding new US/EU proxies.
The best solution is making npc encounters such that you actually need to think about what you're doing. They are doing this with removing the belts and such. Not sure how effective it will be at curbing the farmers though.
I can't help but laugh every time I see a post with PROXY in it. If you used an intermediary connection such as a proxy, you'd probably increase your latency to that of a dial up account. Considering how quickly they warp out of belts, I can't see this being the case.
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Kolwrath
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Posted - 2007.06.29 14:06:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Bu Jinkan
Isk farming macrominers are critical to prevent the eve economy from collapsing.
One example is ice. Ice takes a ridiculously long time to mine. And POSes need a lot of ice to keep running. In fact, large 0.0 alliances need so much ice that they regularly buy up entire markets worth of it in Empire. If the macro ice miners disappear, so does the ice they mine. The result? Fuel prices will spike ridiculously high, to the point where 0.0 space is basically unusuable until CCP fixes the whole thing.
Right ... because CCP is completely unable to rebalance the game mechanics to lower the cycle time for ice or some such should all your ebil miers vanish.
Oh and forget about lowering the amount of low end matts required on BPOS. Thats hardcoded into the database ... no way they could ever change that.
Holy tin foil hattery batman.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.29 14:12:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: Bu Jinkan
Isk farming macrominers are critical to prevent the eve economy from collapsing.
One example is ice. Ice takes a ridiculously long time to mine. And POSes need a lot of ice to keep running. In fact, large 0.0 alliances need so much ice that they regularly buy up entire markets worth of it in Empire. If the macro ice miners disappear, so does the ice they mine. The result? Fuel prices will spike ridiculously high, to the point where 0.0 space is basically unusuable until CCP fixes the whole thing.
Right ... because CCP is completely unable to rebalance the game mechanics to lower the cycle time for ice or some such should all your ebil miers vanish.
Oh and forget about lowering the amount of low end matts required on BPOS. Thats hardcoded into the database ... no way they could ever change that.
Holy tin foil hattery batman.
If they wanted to do that, they would have done it long ago. The game is designed to force you to mine ICE if you want to control 0.0 space. But the 0.0 PvPiers don't mine because it's "carebearish". They don't even hire miners because miners are "carebears". Enter the macro...
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Kolwrath
|
Posted - 2007.06.29 14:44:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: Bu Jinkan
Isk farming macrominers are critical to prevent the eve economy from collapsing.
One example is ice. Ice takes a ridiculously long time to mine. And POSes need a lot of ice to keep running. In fact, large 0.0 alliances need so much ice that they regularly buy up entire markets worth of it in Empire. If the macro ice miners disappear, so does the ice they mine. The result? Fuel prices will spike ridiculously high, to the point where 0.0 space is basically unusuable until CCP fixes the whole thing.
Right ... because CCP is completely unable to rebalance the game mechanics to lower the cycle time for ice or some such should all your ebil miers vanish.
Oh and forget about lowering the amount of low end matts required on BPOS. Thats hardcoded into the database ... no way they could ever change that.
Holy tin foil hattery batman.
If they wanted to do that, they would have done it long ago. The game is designed to force you to mine ICE if you want to control 0.0 space. But the 0.0 PvPiers don't mine because it's "carebearish". They don't even hire miners because miners are "carebears". Enter the macro...
Oh of course how silly of me .... I mean once ice goes through the roof, no way people will start mining in droves. I mean with prices spiking to say oo 1 mill a chunk .. nobody would mine it even then. That just would never happen. People in EVE dont play it for getting iskies. They play specifically for PVP. Mining is only done by the macro miners. Its so obvious I dont know how I dident see it before.
Oh and of course the hardcore pvprs wouldent mine ice themselves, I mean ... they are in ther mothership ... no fuel for jumping ... they cant go anywhere ... so yeah they will just sit in thier one system and not train up ice minig so that they can fly around. Nah .. never will happen.
Man I am a fool .. how could I not see the imposibility of the market and player base adjusting to supply and demand. I mean wow ... for example when the drone areas came in and there was that huge influx of Zydrine in the market? ... Man the price stayed constant and CCP dident do a darn thing about it. All those forum posts about the zyd market crash? ... just illusions. CCPs reduction in Zydrine drops in the REVII patch to restbalise the market? ... Ha I knew I imagined that.
..............
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