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i'd like an answer from ccp please not just a mod lock

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Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:34:00 - [31] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 27/06/2007 17:21:46 Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Quote: "Yestarday we had a 1000 ship fleet battle" Thats all he mentioned and quickly passed on to another topic.. So making a false claim is OK as long as you don't dwell on it too long? How was it a false staement? I'm fairly sure it happend.. It would have been false to then go on about how awesome said battle was and how lag free it was.. You're fairly sure it happened? I'm fairly sure the server crashed 7 times in the build up to this battle, and the quoted 1000 players never made it into the same system. There was never over 400(maybe 500? will check) players in the system. I didnt even mention fighting, because no such thing happened. Wow! Well figure that! 1000 ships all trying to get into one system killing the server! OMGWTFBBQ! Amazing what happens when you push the servers past thier designed limits! Like I said he simply mentioned it happened and gave no details.. And so far thats the only instance we have of him mentioning it so its not a concerted effort to give the illusion that eve can currently handle a fight that big.. Or are there other instances that can be dug up? I'll glady take back my stance if proof that CCP is advertising 1000 ship battles as the normal way of fleet warfare can be produced.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
tiewan	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:40:00 - [32] Originally by: Eskalin Edited by: Eskalin on 27/06/2007 16:23:59 so we have see post after post complaining of lag/desynchronize problems i would like an answer from ccp on what is being done about it. you have promised 1000 ship fleet battles for years but where is it? will it ever happen? walking around in stations may be cool for those who migrated from WoW but not for most of us. when i came to eve from earth and beyond i was stoked no one dancing in station no ****** emotes just evil space combat. is there anything you can say to give us hope that the dream will come to fruition? that our money isn't just being **ed away on additions to a game where it's main attraction is totally inadequate for the needs of the player i put this in general cause it is everyones concern please give us an answer. The answer is no. Goodbye.
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:42:00 - [33] I don't know about you. My PC is oh so more powerful from what it was on Eve launch... I should not even comment on the gfx card whose features eve doesn't use at all (new client away to use them? let's see) My net connection is waaaay better. Eve is steadily getting worse since mid-2004, lag-wise. So far, you have to be lucky and do that big-ish battle of 100vs100 in a system that belongs to a node that isn't that much loaded and blah blah blah to get like 15second module activation lag... and that is called a relatively lag-free battle nowadays Well ok let's say 15+ seconds lag is acceptable.... but what are all those client freezes!? Some absurd client programming if you ask me The answer would be: Ok guys, we can't admit large battles aren't an option without a major program/network code rewrite... that would push away potential new customers. So instead we'll hire people to program walking on stations to get more ppl in, since all you do is whine and the ammount of ppl that actualy quits over it is too small to bother
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:45:00 - [34] Got an answer from my ship loss petition, the usual couldn't find any problem with the server, which added insult to injury. First of all I'm a proponent of "no ship loss in pvp should ever be reimbursed", that being said telling people that were in 6T3 that there was "no server side lag" is bull***, and that CCP decide to simply ignore the problem. Patch after patch, extension after extension we were promised to improvement in fleet battle lag, this never happened. I don't believe that ignoring a problem which ruin players experience in alliance warfare is the way to go. We don't even have an answer on this hot topic yet, nearly 24 hours after the initial thread, dozens of pages of complaint, we do not even get a "we're looking into this new de-synch problem" which still wouldn't be much except that a guy would have seemed to read a part of the threads in CCP. There are more people in 0.0 than ever, more people playing eve than ever, the "blobs" will not magicaly disapear, it is even how Eve is supposed* to be played and yet, every time there is even relatively small scale fight between 100 players you can get crippling lag. Every single time 200 people fight or more, it's just painful.
Lady Natacha Minmatar Water and Power	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:54:00 - [35] Quote: Quote: "Yestarday we had a 1000 ship fleet battle" He didn't say all the fleet was in the same system now did he? This is called PR spin, and CCP will be doing this whenever possible. As has already been pointed out, noobs don't participate in fleet combat or a lot of the stuff in game that isn't currently up to snuff. As long as noobs keep subscribing and turning over, this keeps the company coffers filled and corporate expansion plans on track.
Filatov Teg Rebirth Inc. Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:00:00 - [36] Agree. Do somethin mister Crowd Control Programm -------------------------------------- Ride on Shooting staaaaaaaarrrrrrrr!!!
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Lady Natacha Quote: Quote: "Yestarday we had a 1000 ship fleet battle" He didn't say all the fleet was in the same system now did he? This is called PR spin, and CCP will be doing this whenever possible. As has already been pointed out, noobs don't participate in fleet combat or a lot of the stuff in game that isn't currently up to snuff. As long as noobs keep subscribing and turning over, this keeps the company coffers filled and corporate expansion plans on track. Exactly.. And I'm fairly sure that getting huge fleet ops to a playable level is one of CCP's top goals but one which isn't easily attainable.. I feel your pain allainace players but the cold hard fact is that your a minority in the overall eve population even if you have the largest single concentration of memberships.. This means that they focus on things that pay the bills like overall server stability and features for eveyone.. Your day is coming though.. Just not as fast as you would like.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Lady Natacha Quote: Quote: "Yestarday we had a 1000 ship fleet battle" He didn't say all the fleet was in the same system now did he? This is called PR spin, and CCP will be doing this whenever possible. As has already been pointed out, noobs don't participate in fleet combat or a lot of the stuff in game that isn't currently up to snuff. As long as noobs keep subscribing and turning over, this keeps the company coffers filled and corporate expansion plans on track. How can you have a fleet battle that's not in the same system? Maybe he considers black screen on jump in as part of the battle. Yor pod pilot was knocked unconscious on exiting the jump game! OK, here's the exact quote. He said "For instance the other day we had a gang battle, <corrcts himself>, a fleet battle of over one thousand people fighting in the same solar system, so you can imagine the amount of co-ordination and so forth needed ..." It's not PR spin. If someone sold me a car and said it could do 200 MPH and could actually only do 50 MPH, I wouldn't call that PR spin!
Angor The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:06:00 - [39] eve is just a victim of its own success _______________________________ Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:07:00 - [40] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: Lady Natacha Quote: Quote: "Yestarday we had a 1000 ship fleet battle" He didn't say all the fleet was in the same system now did he? Exactly.. You've actually watched and listened to the link, yes? The part where he says "... in the same solar system ..." kinda clarifies this. You'd make a terrible lawyer. Lionel Hutz would run rings around you!
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:12:00 - [41] Way to butcher my quote to have it say what you want it to say.. Semantics aside its a single quote from a single source.. Hardly a mass media PR campain to sell new players on a busted gameplay feature.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Lady Natacha Minmatar Water and Power	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:17:00 - [42] Originally by: Fink Angel You'd make a terrible lawyer. Lionel Hutz would run rings around you! Depends on what your definition of a "lawyer" is doesn't it? That is the point, wordplay. You can't take corporate PR at face value. Sometimes exploring what a PR statement doesn't say, yields more facts.
tiewan	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:20:00 - [43] Originally by: ElCoCo I don't know about you. My PC is oh so more powerful from what it was on Eve launch... I should not even comment on the gfx card whose features eve doesn't use at all (new client away to use them? let's see) My net connection is waaaay better. Eve is steadily getting worse since mid-2004, lag-wise. So far, you have to be lucky and do that big-ish battle of 100vs100 in a system that belongs to a node that isn't that much loaded and blah blah blah to get like 15second module activation lag... and that is called a relatively lag-free battle nowadays Well ok let's say 15+ seconds lag is acceptable.... but what are all those client freezes!? Some absurd client programming if you ask me The answer would be: Ok guys, we can't admit large battles aren't an option without a major program/network code rewrite... that would push away potential new customers. So instead we'll hire people to program walking on stations to get more ppl in, since all you do is whine and the ammount of ppl that actualy quits over it is too small to bother You know nothing. goodbye
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:40:00 - [44] It is obvious that CCP cannot "tweak" or "fix" their way out of the issue after all this time messing around with it. This leads me to believe that the engine is not suited for what is currently being asked of it, it would need to be altered and rewritten, which would take an immense amount of time and would change eve as developers "tweak" other area's that they think could be better. It's also obvious CCP is not doing these things, they just feed us information laced with words like "tweaks" and "firmware upgrades", but we continue to lag the ** up whenever ** hits the fan. So, either CCP is unwilling to take the time to overhaul the engine, as it doesnÆt attract players like new shiny, high poly/detail ships do. Or they are simply naive in thinking they can "tweak n'fix" their way out of this, as player numbers rise and we continue to lag. Lastly, they could simply be incompetent. I don't like any of these, but since ccp has not notified us of anything concrete being planned to really cut down this lag problem, IÆm left with a bad feeling about the whole thing, as in thinking it will never change.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:44:00 - [45] Originally by: Tasuric Orka It is obvious that CCP cannot "tweak" or "fix" their way out of the issue after all this time messing around with it. This leads me to believe that the engine is not suited for what is currently being asked of it, it would need to be altered and rewritten, which would take an immense amount of time and would change eve as developers "tweak" other area's that they think could be better. It's also obvious CCP is not doing these things, they just feed us information laced with words like "tweaks" and "firmware upgrades", but we continue to lag the ** up whenever hits the fan. So, either CCP is unwilling to take the time to overhaul the engine, as it doesnÆt attract players like new shiny, high poly/detail ships do. Or they are simply naive in thinking they can "tweak n'fix" their way out of this, as player numbers rise and we continue to lag. Lastly, they could simply be incompetent. I don't like any of these, but since ccp has not notified us of anything concrete being planned to really cut down this lag problem, IÆm left with a bad feeling about the whole thing, as in thinking it will never change. You do realise the the new client will have more than just new graphics yes? Why spend programming resorces on the outdated (current) client when they could just do it all from scratch with the new one? Originally by:** David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:54:00 - [46] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: Tasuric Orka It is obvious that CCP cannot "tweak" or "fix" their way out of the issue after all this time messing around with it. This leads me to believe that the engine is not suited for what is currently being asked of it, it would need to be altered and rewritten, which would take an immense amount of time and would change eve as developers "tweak" other area's that they think could be better. It's also obvious CCP is not doing these things, they just feed us information laced with words like "tweaks" and "firmware upgrades", but we continue to lag the ** up whenever ** hits the fan. So, either CCP is unwilling to take the time to overhaul the engine, as it doesnÆt attract players like new shiny, high poly/detail ships do. Or they are simply naive in thinking they can "tweak n'fix" their way out of this, as player numbers rise and we continue to lag. Lastly, they could simply be incompetent. I don't like any of these, but since ccp has not notified us of anything concrete being planned to really cut down this lag problem, IÆm left with a bad feeling about the whole thing, as in thinking it will never change. You do realise the the new client will have more than just new graphics yes? Why spend programming resorces on the outdated (current) client when they could just do it all from scratch with the new one? They can always add more, like they have for years now. But they need to re do, or significantly change the foundation. So this "new client" carries no more hope with it than normal updates, in the lag department.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:08:00 - [47] Originally by: Tasuric Orka Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: Tasuric Orka It is obvious that CCP cannot "tweak" or "fix" their way out of the issue after all this time messing around with it. This leads me to believe that the engine is not suited for what is currently being asked of it, it would need to be altered and rewritten, which would take an immense amount of time and would change eve as developers "tweak" other area's that they think could be better. It's also obvious CCP is not doing these things, they just feed us information laced with words like "tweaks" and "firmware upgrades", but we continue to lag the ** up whenever hits the fan. So, either CCP is unwilling to take the time to overhaul the engine, as it doesnÆt attract players like new shiny, high poly/detail ships do. Or they are simply naive in thinking they can "tweak n'fix" their way out of this, as player numbers rise and we continue to lag. Lastly, they could simply be incompetent. I don't like any of these, but since ccp has not notified us of anything concrete being planned to really cut down this lag problem, IÆm left with a bad feeling about the whole thing, as in thinking it will never change. You do realise the the new client will have more than just new graphics yes? Why spend programming resorces on the outdated (current) client when they could just do it all from scratch with the new one? They can always add more, like they have for years now. But they need to re do, or significantly change the foundation. So this "new client" carries no more hope with it than normal updates, in the lag department. Mmmmm.. No.. You can't 'always add more' as there is a limit to what you can add to keep compatibility with older parts of the code.. Why do you think we always get the patch day blues with all the random junk that happens after every major patch? I think whats happend is that the game has grown faster than the devs had projected and work on the new cient has not been able to be sped up enough to get it out before eve reached critical mass.. So now we have more stuff going on than the current client can handle.. The new client will address much of the problems we have now though I doubt that it will handle a 1000 ship battle out of the gate.. But.. It will have the scaleability built in to make it happen far faster than will be possible (if at all..) with the old client.. Patience Grasshopper.. Originally by:** David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
leefdorp Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:28:00 - [48] /signed whats ccp is waiting for?
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:30:00 - [49] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Mmmmm.. No.. You can't 'always add more' as there is a limit to what you can add to keep compatibility with older parts of the code.. Why do you think we always get the patch day blues with all the random junk that happens after every major patch? I think whats happend is that the game has grown faster than the devs had projected and work on the new cient has not been able to be sped up enough to get it out before eve reached critical mass.. So now we have more stuff going on than the current client can handle.. The new client will address much of the problems we have now though I doubt that it will handle a 1000 ship battle out of the gate.. But.. It will have the scaleability built in to make it happen far faster than will be possible (if at all..) with the old client.. Patience Grasshopper.. You can always add more, as long as it is compatible, and the sheer volume doesnÆt "break" the foundation. This is what CCP has been doing basically, adding ingame ôstuffö, changing the mechanics, audovisual. This is what they have planned for the awesome new client(tm), so maybe itÆs not really an "awesome new client(tm)", but simply "old familiar crap of mixed blessings and curses" such as the normal updates, only now with ALOT of new eye candy. Patience wears thin when grinding for ingame isk during weekdays , 20 euro's a month gets you a black sceen during the weekends and a "go back to start" card when you dare take part in the "epic" things that eve trailers just LOVE to show you. Even if they were to be working on "the magic pill" that will allow me to actually control my ship in the time that it matters most, I would appreciate it if they would tell me it was coming later, and not try to sweet talk the community with empty promises and announcement of new pukeware and "tweaks". So yeah, IÆm not hopeful. And just to be clear, I appreciate the game, otherwise I wouldnÆt be ranting here. But things have been handled.. clumsily to say the least.
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:31:00 - [50] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Threv Echandari Sound like alot of you don't know how Software Development works. The Team working on "Walking in stations" is most likely NOT the same people responsible for Server infractructure etc. The money paying their salary is the same money that could be used to hire more people to work on the lag. I'm afraid you are falling prey to the mythical man month syndrome. In some activities (and software development is one) you can't make a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant. Regards, Gort -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:33:00 - [51] /signed No matter how much you try and apply the 14:th coat to make the game look better, if that doesn't make the engine run properly, it'll just be a shiny block of lead, shiny, but still a block of useless lead. - Recruitment open again-
Jakiri GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:40:00 - [52] Edited by: Jakiri on 27/06/2007 19:39:33 The talk about fights involving hundreds of people is not actually that relevent - I'm sure we'd all like to be able to fight in these epic space battles, but unfortunately it's not just things of that scale that cause desyncing (which is a seperate issue from lag - lag corrects itself eventually, desyncing can only be fixed with a session change). I was just in a gang of 20 people who were sitting on a gate, with around 100 people at most in local, and we found out, when hostile pilots jumped into us, that we were all desynced and either had to quit the game ourselves or just had the thing crash straight off the bat. (NB: I don't think the hostiles, who were mostly BoB, caused the desync - it was just the action of them jumping through that caused us to notice) People have complained about lag before, and I'm sure CCP would love to fix the lag if they could. However, this frequency of desyncing is something new in the recent patch and is making the game extremely difficult to play, as even when mining I've been encountering them fairly frequently. Before RevII, I had been desynced once in total. I'm not going to threaten to quit, I'm not going to say that CCP are incompetent or that our opponents are cheating. I just would like this problem to go away so we can go back to deciding fleet combat by the skill of individual pilots and by the number of friends you can find, as I'm sure we all would.
Black Jumper Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:40:00 - [53] 77S 19h00 Eve time : 50 men fleet entering in 77s (120 persons in the system, in station and everything). Client desynchronized 10 seconds after the jumpin. Warp out order given, 10 minutes passed still no sign of life from the client ... Oh well guess we will all have to go mining in Jita eh ?
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:43:00 - [54] Originally by: tiewan You know nothing. goodbye I experience lots, I don't need to know anything other than what they say, which is nothing concrete other than wishful thinking. Now go back and hide behind your alt.
rig0r 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:47:00 - [55] Agreed, at the very least say you are working on it or something. Not too much to ask now is it ?
abukede Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:47:00 - [56] Edited by: abukede on 27/06/2007 19:48:58 First, I would like to thank CCP for developing the best and most engaging space sim ever! I think most of us can agree on what CCP has accomplished in just a few years is simply amazing. Second, I would like to support this post by kindly asking CCP to invest resources, time and labor into improving the ability of the game by making large scale battles with limited lag even remotely possible. Having personally commanded some of the largest fleets ever assembled in Eve I have personally both profited and lost due to massive lag spikes brought on by turly awe inspiring player cooperation where the game freezes or simple drops the majority of one side or even both. Large Scale Fleet fights will make Eve second to none in the MMO world. Please I call on CCP to make this a reality for those of us who have paid and played hard for so many years. Dice is the Predator and Eve is our prey.
Kellen Pikara Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:50:00 - [57] Originally by: Jakiri Edited by: Jakiri on 27/06/2007 19:39:33 I was just in a gang of 20 people who were sitting on a gate, with around 100 people at most in local, and we found out, when hostile pilots jumped into us, that we were all desynced and either had to quit the game ourselves or just had the thing crash straight off the bat. (NB: I don't think the hostiles, who were mostly BoB, caused the desync - it was just the action of them jumping through that caused us to notice) Along these lines, I warped to a gate with about ten guys on it, and as I was sitting there debating whether or not to jump through, someone jumped in from the other side. Instant desynch. No one was shooting, no one was targeting, we were all just sitting there. Some corpmates have been reporting desynching while ratting.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 20:00:00 - [58] Originally by: abukede Edited by: abukede on 27/06/2007 19:48:58 First, I would like to thank CCP for developing the best and most engaging space sim ever! I think most of us can agree on what CCP has accomplished in just a few years is simply amazing. Second, I would like to support this post by kindly asking CCP to invest resources, time and labor into improving the ability of the game by making large scale battles with limited lag even remotely possible. Having personally commanded some of the largest fleets ever assembled in Eve I have personally both profited and lost due to massive lag spikes brought on by turly awe inspiring player cooperation where the game freezes or simple drops the majority of one side or even both. Large Scale Fleet fights will make Eve second to none in the MMO world. Please I call on CCP to make this a reality for those of us who have paid and played hard for so many years. Quoted for truth. This single issue, apart from exploits should take the highest priority. Eye candy hardly matters when you fight on the overview and only see brackets with either purple or red thingies attached in space.. But whatever, CCP either doesnt care, can't fix it, is actually fixing it.. They ain't talking, so all we can do is wait, and let lag have its way with our ships.
titanstory FRENCH NAVY Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.27 20:04:00 - [59] /signed. try to fix it plz
fnar g Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.27 20:04:00 - [60] Originally by: Threv Echandari Sound like alot of you don't know how Software Development works. The Team working on "Walking in stations" is most likely NOT the same people responsible for Server infractructure etc. What is being asked is that performance is given a higher priority than extra features. How CCP do that is up to them, all we can do is give them some kind of feedback on what we as customers would like. Going OT but to answer your point, we're not really talking about software development this is more systems development. I doubt the solution to the latency issues lies purely in one piece of code. I agree that generally speaking 'too many chefs spoil the broth' but not if the broth is split across hundreds of servers, thousands of lines of code and about 15 different networked systems interacting with each other. In those cases generally the more eyes the better although they do need to be well managed.

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