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Kalmaric
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:04:00 -
[1]
Well first off i would say this is the first time I have ever B****ed in the forums about something, but this one is getting old.
I was under the impression that probing out mission runners in deadspace was suppose to be a somewhat dificult thing to do. I have read a few topics on this in the forums and people were complaining they were getting probed out every 30 or so missions and i thought well, thats not really too bad i can live with that.
But since I have been probed out, 4 times out of my last 4 missions, something seems to be wrong. I mean i cant even finish a mission without fighting pirates.
Now before u call me a carebear and stop whining, I do think u should be able to scan mission runners out and I enjoy pvp and pirating just as much or more than running missions. But if its that easy to scan someone out of a mission CCP has just screwed Low Sec even more than they had before.
Has anyone else run into this problem or am i just really unlucky.
Oh and they were all different pirates so its not like its just one uber char getting me everytime
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:17:00 -
[2]
I suspect you're starting to run into the 'professional' mission probers. Ones who have 200+ bookmarks in the system, have good probing skills and are specialized in tracking your butt down.
With the advent of L5 agents plenty of hungry pirates have prepared to gank the living snot out of anyone dumb enough to mission in lowsec. Since the huge hordes of carebears did not materialize to line up for slaughter in L5s, they're migrating over to the systems surrounding better L4s.
This was all predictable and predicted. Lay low for a while until the prats slaughter each other for a few weeks, run out of ISK and go do something else.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.27 19:58:00 -
[3]
You using drones? I keep hearing they are easy to scan down.
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Vitrael
Stormriders Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.06.27 20:24:00 -
[4]
Too easy?
A couple days ago we had a tempest on scan at 5au and 2 probers dropping 1 probe each every 30 seconds and 2 minutes respectively. We probed for upwards of 10 minutes before he finally finished the mish and warped off safely.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.06.27 20:58:00 -
[5]
There's too many variables to say whether it's too hard or too easy.
If you're in a system with well-prepared, bookmark happy probers--and it certainly sounds like you are--you're probably screwed unless you're very lucky with your mission spawn point and take sensible precautions.
Most likely the key is not to be in that system. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Pakalolo
Tha Shiznit
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Posted - 2007.06.27 21:05:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Pakalolo on 27/06/2007 21:09:15 dont use drones - gives them 6 sigs to search for instead of one (assuming you solo using 5 drones). If that's your primary dmg (hello domi), i dunno what to say.
Linkage to C&P thread re: Probing mission runners
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Big Al
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2007.06.27 21:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Big Al on 27/06/2007 21:53:47 Chance based scanning is one of the worst things ever implemented.
Is it too easy? No.
Can they find you on the first try? Yes.
Can they try 20 times without finding you? Yup.
Drop a can at the warp in, move away from it, stay alligned and pay attention and it's pretty hard to die.
You don't need 100% situational awareness all the time, but if you aren't at least glancing at the scanner to look for probes bad things will probably happen.
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Aquidus Nefron
Caldari Department of Defence
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Posted - 2007.06.27 22:01:00 -
[8]
I havn't tried it yet, but I heard u can scan for wrecks, making all too easy. But yes, probing otu missions is really easy, compaired to acually hunting someone down.
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Pakalolo
Tha Shiznit
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Posted - 2007.06.27 23:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Big Al Drop a can at the warp in, move away from it, stay alligned and pay attention and it's pretty hard to die.
Excellent advice.
You can not scan for wrecks (or cans).
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Spider Iarus
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Posted - 2007.06.28 02:28:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Spider Iarus on 28/06/2007 02:27:49 I had an account with a Raven and have one with a Domi that both r(a)n missions in lowsec.
Basically it became too troublesome to continue. L4's can take upwards of an hour of grinding. Get scanned out - and even if you make it out (which yes, shouldn't usually be too hard if you're being paranoid enough) you lose the mission, the loot, the wrecks, and all too often standing when you have to fail the mission. Getting scanned out once in a couple of days is acceptable risk. Getting scanned out once an hour means it's not worth even trying.
Basically take a look at the mission hotspots - all the mission runners are back up in deep highsec avoiding the probers, causing more lag on those systems, and not giving much of a damn about the loss in per-mission isk as lowsec scanning hurts lowsec mission running much, much more.
Oh, and the drones make the Domi too easy to scan, yes. Nuff said.
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 05:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Spider Iarus L4's can take upwards of an hour of grinding. Get scanned out - and even if you make it out (which yes, shouldn't usually be too hard if you're being paranoid enough) you lose the mission, the loot, the wrecks, and all too often standing when you have to fail the mission.
How would you loose the mission? Pirates won't "steal" your mission, if they wanted to do that they would run missions themselves. Or wait in it for hours for you - they have just the same time limitations as you have,.
In the worst case if you wait multiple hours before starting it again you loose the loot & wrecks since they despawned and maybe the mission bonus. The mission itself however, not really. A lvl 4 gives you *seven* days to finish it.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.06.28 06:49:00 -
[12]
why do it in 7 days if you can run tens of the same missions, albeit with slightly lower rewards, for the same time in high sec.
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Spider Iarus
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Posted - 2007.06.28 07:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Spider Iarus on 28/06/2007 07:29:28 Heh.
A Pirate who's bothering to specialize in banging mission runners should probably be able to realize you'll be coming back if he catches you in the middle of a mission, and should probably be able to recognize what mission you're in and whether you'll be coming back soon.
Naturally it's a bad idea to go straight back in after escaping - he or someone in his corp/an alt/whatever sees you in that system, they'll be knocking on your tailpipe in 15 seconds.
You're right - you can wait. However I've found that most pirates who pirate in my time zone play the exact same hours as I play, and tend to haunt the same systems. I'm not going to leave a mission sitting for an extended period of time while I pick my bellybutton - I need that agent to give me new ones, or I'm wasting time. Travel - wasted time. See where this is going?
So again, they're cutting into the bottom line. This pushes mission runners from lowsec to highsec.
Not the fault of the probers for probing or the runners for running someplace where they can't be killed easily.
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schurem
Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 07:53:00 -
[14]
there is a fix, albeit not an easy one, and not one that comes easy to the type of person who soloes missions all day for fun and living. Band together, get gangs going, destroy the prats posses, ships, and camp them out whenever sighted. Get regional watch channels up. Gang up before you undock, so all runners in-system can warp to you in case of an emergency. Just kick them out and keep the place policed. However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds.
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.06.28 08:39:00 -
[15]
if you fight them back they will surely return because this is what they are looking for - pvp. but fighting them back won't give you any profit you seek by running lvl4s, so your lose and they win. you can't put pvper and carebear beside and have them enjoy the game, sad but true. so the only way left is high sec missions in any case.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.28 10:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Spider Iarus L4's can take upwards of an hour of grinding. Get scanned out - and even if you make it out (which yes, shouldn't usually be too hard if you're being paranoid enough) you lose the mission, the loot, the wrecks, and all too often standing when you have to fail the mission.
How would you loose the mission? Pirates won't "steal" your mission, if they wanted to do that they would run missions themselves. Or wait in it for hours for you - they have just the same time limitations as you have,.
In the worst case if you wait multiple hours before starting it again you loose the loot & wrecks since they despawned and maybe the mission bonus. The mission itself however, not really. A lvl 4 gives you *seven* days to finish it.
For example sthealing or destroing the critical loot.
Most pirates would do that to spite the mission runner that was able to run away, justifing it as "Giving a lesson to the carebear". As if staing to fight against multiple pirates while being pounded by NPC was a wise choice.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.06.28 10:58:00 -
[17]
Some will ransom back your mission-critical loot....because we care .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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The Snowman
Gallente Black Mithril Holdings
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:43:00 -
[18]
I dont think level 4 missions are actually intended to be done solo! - I know grouping reduces the amount gained from solo'ing a mission, but really.. thats what they are for.
When you solo a lvl 4 mission its a very fine balance, you resistances are specific, your managing you energy to feed your reppers while doing enough damage to ONE target at a time! this balance is easily tipped!..
Whilst I sympathise with this mission running problem in low sec.. its risk vs reward. and you must reduce the risk at the cost of some reward!
Rather than 'making it easy to scan mission runners' CCP are instead 'Discouraging mission runners to go solo'
And in fairness, solo mission running is just too easy.. an easy way to gain ISK, LP, Loot AND Salvage!... I dont actually have a problem with it.
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Gaden Amoed
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Posted - 2007.06.28 12:45:00 -
[19]
Soon i will hear the "pvp" Pirate guys crying that no mission runner is left in low sec and that this damn carebears only doing lvl 4 missions in high sec
The Pirate who is probing out a mission runner is not interestet in pvp... its nothing else then ganking... . They are playing eve to ruin one others day as good as he can. If someone really is interestet in pvp he will look for an opponent who is fit for fighting other players.
Me for myself stay in high sec doing missions there. If i think about how many missions i have to fly to get a new ship + fitting back... no thanks.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.06.28 12:56:00 -
[20]
The solution seems clear to me: Move all Level 4 Navy agents to areas adjacent to low sec. That's right, all those nice, safe Level 4 agents in Dodixie, Aunia, Vittenyn, etc. Ship them to Jel, Ation, etc. That way, if you want to make the insane rewards given by Level 4 agents, you have to run some risk to get them. Not all the time, mind you, but at least every now and then you get sent to Egghelende.
Move all the lower quality agents to higher security areas. That way the real newbs don't get raped by pirates. It really irritates me when I am building standing and have to run Level 1 missions from Jel (or move everything I own 14 jumps). I have to turn down every third mission, because it gives me a 20 LP courier mission through Egghelende, which is permanently gatecamped. It makes no sense that someone who can only run level 1 missions is braving the pirates in low sec, for a mere 20 LP, while someone who can solo level 4s gets 4000 LP at no risk.
I know this will infuriate some people, but it would help put an end to professional mission running by ISK sellers. And it would make pirates happier. And it might make banding together to run missions more attractive. And it might send some more people out of high sec - the people who don't need to be there, but are there because the ISK is just as easy to make there as anywhere else (if not easier).
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maarud
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 13:56:00 -
[21]
Don't use drones
OR
Use drones, but keep your scanner open checking for probes
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
SonofHu
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Posted - 2007.06.28 14:02:00 -
[22]
What about if your mission takes you to a jump gate first? Can they probe you down then?
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Gaden Amoed
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Posted - 2007.06.28 14:04:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gaden Amoed on 28/06/2007 14:03:30
Originally by: FT Diomedes
Move all the lower quality agents to higher security areas. That way the real newbs don't get raped by pirates. It really irritates me when I am building standing and have to run Level 1 missions from Jel (or move everything I own 14 jumps). I have to turn down every third mission, because it gives me a 20 LP courier mission through Egghelende, which is permanently gatecamped. It makes no sense that someone who can only run level 1 missions is braving the pirates in low sec, for a mere 20 LP, while someone who can solo level 4s gets 4000 LP at no risk.
Without Risk? Your still playing Mission? There is always the risk to get blown up by NPCs. From time to time its insane what damage drop on your ship. Doing Missions in high sec is for players who didnt want to play in pvp or ganked :) Try to accept this and have a look for real targets to fight in pvp... how about alliances in 0.0? Oh i forgot.. Pirates dont have enough courage to do this...they choose easy targets because they dont want to risk their victory
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Lrrp
Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2007.06.28 14:30:00 -
[24]
Look at it another way. I use isk from missions so I can afford to pvp. As a businessman I look at risk/reward. Sure in lo sec you get bigger rewards and more LP's. The bounties/loot/salvage are all the same tho. So after losing a couple of BS's to mission ganks, I have moved to hi sec to work missions. In the long run (heck maybe even short run) I make more in hi sec than lo when you factor in time loss from not running missions due to known gankers being in system. Yeah, it is easy to say band togeather but by and large most mission runners are solo operaters. I'm not whining about mission gankers, I just went to where they ain't. I just don't want to hear CCP say how they are trying to get peeps out of hi sec into lo.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.06.28 14:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lrrp Look at it another way. I use isk from missions so I can afford to pvp. As a businessman I look at risk/reward. Sure in lo sec you get bigger rewards and more LP's. The bounties/loot/salvage are all the same tho. So after losing a couple of BS's to mission ganks, I have moved to hi sec to work missions. In the long run (heck maybe even short run) I make more in hi sec than lo when you factor in time loss from not running missions due to known gankers being in system. Yeah, it is easy to say band togeather but by and large most mission runners are solo operaters. I'm not whining about mission gankers, I just went to where they ain't. I just don't want to hear CCP say how they are trying to get peeps out of hi sec into lo.
Exactly. Most people are just being smart businessmen. It currently makes no sense for an experienced player to run Level 4 missions in low sec when he can run the same mission and get close to the same reward in high sec. That is what needs to change.
The NPC risk in level 4 missions for an experienced player is practically non-existent. Many people run these missions AFK. That is absurd for the amount of profit they generate.
This isn't about trying to make everyone PvP. This is about making high sec space less lucrative. The lag in a major Navy mission running hub is absurd. The huge numbers of people there are not stupid or cowardly. They are simply there because the profit is there.
Lower the rewards on Level 4 agents and leave them where they are, and some of those smart people will go elsewhere. Or move all the Level 4 agents to 0.6 systems, and maybe even raise the rewards, and those smart people will go.
Will some of them get killed by pirates? Yes. But if it is the only way to get the kinds of rewards/loot generated by Level 4 agents, then it will be worth it.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.06.28 15:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: FT Diomedes
Will some of them get killed by pirates? Yes. But if it is the only way to get the kinds of rewards/loot generated by Level 4 agents, then it will be worth it.
how much loss makes it worth it? if I lose a t2 and deadspace loaded, with rigs fit dedicated mission running battleship every 10 missions, is it worth it? every 5? every other mission? can you run away Every time? when you fail, how many missions does it take to get back standings?
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Moha Mend
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Posted - 2007.06.28 16:00:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Moha Mend on 28/06/2007 16:00:26 Edited by: Moha Mend on 28/06/2007 15:59:38 I have a better idea !
Why don't move *everything* to low-sec, finish up with hi-sec, maybe everybody with some experience will turn into a pirate and make Eve just more like WoW ??
Yeah, make it a law in the game: everybody got to be in a gang (never ever play solo!) and always be prepared to spend two weeks buying and hauling your stuff, fitting your ship, getting standing to use an agent and -- BUM! -- see everything just vanish in a second buy a couple of stupid teenagers pirates in disposable ships.
Never let anyone alone and with little time to just log in and run some nice lvl 4 mission and make the change money it rewards. Blow up his game so he can just log off and wait another week before have all the conditions to try something again.
(BTW, In case you didn't realize I was being sarcastic, Marge.)
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.06.28 16:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SonofHu What about if your mission takes you to a jump gate first? Can they probe you down then?
Yes. They'll need to use the gates too of course, which means more time to complete the mission for you, more time to detect them with your scanner, and more possibility for uncloaking them. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.06.28 16:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gaden Amoed Soon i will hear the "pvp" Pirate guys crying that no mission runner is left in low sec and that this damn carebears only doing lvl 4 missions in high sec
The Pirate who is probing out a mission runner is not interestet in pvp... its nothing else then ganking... . They are playing eve to ruin one others day as good as he can.
As a generalization, I'd say most pirate probers are doing it for fun and profit rather than to ruin your day. There are definitely jerks out there, but that applies to carebears as well. Plus I'd guess that a lot of the casual griefers that do exist don't have the patience for probing. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Igus
Green Gecko Inc. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.28 16:52:00 -
[30]
Just to note it normally takes 10 or more minutes actively scanning to get a mission ship. Using the on board scanning its fairly easy to know if someone is sticking around your mission area to much. Set your range to 5au and click it ever 30 sec or so. -- *snip* Your signature exceeds the maximum filesize (24,000bytes) and also the signature dimensions 400x120 pixels -TheDagda ([email protected]) |
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