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kiling someoen that got ransomed

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Zkillz kun Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.27 20:22:00 - [1] So today a corp mate of mine ransomed a drake at a gate in lowsec(let him go of course). then seeing taht he is over a year old i go ahead and throw out a gang invite and attack his drake in an ishkur. i kiled him cause neither of us could have survived long enough(rats actually stole my kill mail). after i poped him i locked the pod but warped out cause i didn't want to wait to contemplate the ethics of killing him with lvl3 blocade beating up my af. anyway i was wondering what you guys think about this. my corp mates think i shouldn't have killed him because he had been ransomed just a bit earlier. My defense: 1. he accepted a gang invite 2. i wasn't involved in the ransom 3. it was only 15m from a nearly 1yr old drake (my corp mate sent it back) plz tell me what you guys think about that ____________ Beets, You're among friends.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.27 20:26:00 - [2] Putting aside the ganging thing. If your corp mate ransomed him at a gate and then as a seperate incident while he was in a mission later on you killed him i see no problem with it. DE
Plaetean Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.27 20:28:00 - [3] A ransom means you're let go, the pirates deactivate the warp scram and let you escape. What a ransom is not, is a free day in low sec where no-one can attack you. He was ransomed, he was let go, it's his own fault for getting caught again. -----
Joe Shooter Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.06.27 21:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Plaetean A ransom means you're let go, the pirates deactivate the warp scram and let you escape. What a ransom is not, is a free day in low sec where no-one can attack you. He was ransomed, he was let go, it's his own fault for getting caught again. Signed... Wait... The ISK was given back? ___________ ThUnDeRsTrUcK
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.06.27 21:50:00 - [5] It sounds like from your description that you wouldn't have known about this person if your corpmate hadn't ransomed him already, correct? SEARCh- we find sites for you!
Zardenim	Posted - 2007.06.27 22:00:00 - [6] Perfectly legit imo. Platean covered it nicely. Originally by: LastTraitorStanding Back in my day we pirated backwards! Uphill! In the snow! for 120km with really crappy optimal! And get off my lawn you punks!
Speed Devil Caldari Mean Machines	Posted - 2007.06.27 22:56:00 - [7] youre free to do anything u want really ransom and kill em, double profit
Rylet VanDorn Pastafarians Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.06.27 23:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Plaetean A ransom means you're let go, the pirates deactivate the warp scram and let you escape. What a ransom is not, is a free day in low sec where no-one can attack you. He was ransomed, he was let go, it's his own fault for getting caught again. By that logic, you would be perfectly justified ransoming someone, then following them through the next gate they jump through, and ransoming them again. I seriously don't understand why people still pay ransoms. Actually TRUSTING people to honor their word in this game? WTF are you smoking?
IRS Informant Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2007.06.27 23:09:00 - [9] Depends.. If you (or your buddy) ransom as your primary means of ISK, then it was probably a very bad idea.. You don't get many repeat customers when carebears lose their ships (they're a bit touchy about that).. If you just ransom on a whim, then it doesn't really matter.. You make life harder for those of us that do ransom for a living, but you're not here to make our lives easier..
B1G DAVE Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.28 00:06:00 - [10] If it were two seperate incidents, then you did fine But if your corp mate yelled "oo I just ransomed this drake, and watched him go to this spot, go kill him" then that would be not so good Imo
Stakhanov kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.06.28 00:21:00 - [11] I doubt the 15m included protection , though he could see the gang invite as safe since he paid already - very silly nonetheless. It can be pretty hard to enforce a corp wide protection (without standings for a long term agreement) so if the victim wants it , he clearly has to pay an extra for it.
Mawrin Skel	Posted - 2007.06.28 02:49:00 - [12] Maybe the fact you'd gang someone and then kill 'em after they just got ransomed by your corpy does show that you are a bit of a scumbag - I mean your corp should maybe kick you just cos you have no honour, but then....they let you in so standards are probably low. You didn't even get the kill cos your lil ishkur was only tipping the balance a little... The funniest thing is you then high tail it out (without even looting?) cos you can't tank a lvl3 in your AF.... So in the end you failed to gain much by the sound of it and also proved beyond all reasonable doubt that you are a sneaky sh1t..... Bravo
Karlemgne The Malevolent	Posted - 2007.06.28 02:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Zkillz kun So today a corp mate of mine ransomed a drake at a gate in lowsec(let him go of course). then seeing taht he is over a year old i go ahead and throw out a gang invite and attack his drake in an ishkur. i kiled him cause neither of us could have survived long enough(rats actually stole my kill mail). after i poped him i locked the pod but warped out cause i didn't want to wait to contemplate the ethics of killing him with lvl3 blocade beating up my af. anyway i was wondering what you guys think about this. my corp mates think i shouldn't have killed him because he had been ransomed just a bit earlier. My defense: 1. he accepted a gang invite 2. i wasn't involved in the ransom 3. it was only 15m from a nearly 1yr old drake (my corp mate sent it back) plz tell me what you guys think about that Some might say that a ransom isn't permanent, and evaporates as soon as you let the guy go. I, on the otherhand don't. If you ransomed him, you should have given him 24 hours. I suppose you could plead ignorance, but if you killed him in the same system, I wouldn't buy that as a decent excuse. Whatever the case, I think you should pay the man for his loss. -Karlemgne
Dapanman1 Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.28 03:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Mawrin Skel ...I mean your corp should maybe kick you just cos you have no honour, but then....they let you in so standards are probably low... Well we wouldn't be much of a pirate corp if we kicked out our pirates, especially our founding members, now would we? But thanks for your input on the topic at hand. Beets, you're among friends.
Talpa Iute Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.28 06:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Rylet VanDorn ....... By that logic, you would be perfectly justified ransoming someone, then following them through the next gate they jump through, and ransoming them again. I seriously don't understand why people still pay ransoms. Actually TRUSTING people to honor their word in this game? WTF are you smoking? well then you'll die every time someone gives you a fair chance to make it out alive .. for a fair price.. _____________________________________________
Don Z0LA Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.06.28 07:42:00 - [16] afaik ganking people by gang exploit is bannable. killing people who payed for ransom is very very lame. you fail at piracy and you are shame for our sort.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.28 07:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Speed Devil youre free to do anything u want really ransom and kill em, double profit Yeah...that really encourages "clients" to pay ransoms. Way to go...amateur "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Corwain Gallente Zero Team	Posted - 2007.06.28 08:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Don Z0LA afaik ganking people by gang exploit is bannable. killing people who payed for ransom is very very lame. you fail at piracy and you are shame for our sort. Um...inviting your enemies to your gang is no exploit. He didn't say he spammed him with invites or anything here... And I agree with the others, ransom means you can leave. this guy obviously did no such thing.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.28 09:45:00 - [19] Originally by: Rylet VanDorn Originally by: Plaetean A ransom means you're let go, the pirates deactivate the warp scram and let you escape. What a ransom is not, is a free day in low sec where no-one can attack you. He was ransomed, he was let go, it's his own fault for getting caught again. By that logic, you would be perfectly justified ransoming someone, then following them through the next gate they jump through, and ransoming them again. I seriously don't understand why people still pay ransoms. Actually TRUSTING people to honor their word in this game? WTF are you smoking? you don't understand why ppl pay ransoms? Let's just say you come across a Veto pirate who offers a ransom. I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest that the vast majority of eve knows full well that a veto pilot will honor it and if it saves them isk and time then why wouldn't you pay it? I have only once been offered a ransom which was by a respectable corp that i turned down simply because it was on my pod which had no implants in at the time, if it was 1 of my implanted clones then i would have paid, no questions asked. DE
flashfresh Independent Pilots	Posted - 2007.06.28 10:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Rylet VanDorn ......By that logic, you would be perfectly justified ransoming someone, then following them through the next gate they jump through, and ransoming them again. I seriously don't understand why people still pay ransoms. Actually TRUSTING people to honor their word in this game? WTF are you smoking? Well, that would be difficult as more than likely you're flagged and the gate will not immediately activate for you. If the ransomed pilot jumped through to the other side and SAT there long enough for me to come back through - he deserves to get caught and ransomed again. The ransom isn't a protection pass you know? Once let go, the ransomed (ransomee?) needs to GTFO of the system. However, I personally always tell the pilot he has a 15 minute grace period. However, thats just me. F ---------------------------------------------- ôMe, I'm dishonest, and you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to watch out for...'ö
Max Godsnottlingson Amarr Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.06.28 10:32:00 - [21] Talking as one who gets ransomed on occasion. Just make sure that you make it clear during 'the negotiations' that it is a "one off and if we catch you again will attack again." For those who get ransomed. I've also found that so long as you don't get snotty you can often negotiate longer deals, granted for more isk, and "touch wood" all pirates I have delt with have honoured the agreement. I've been able to negotiate several 'day passes' with guys camping gate/systems that I need to travel through regularly.
Sir Lex Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.06.28 16:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Karlemgne I, on the otherhand don't. If you ransomed him, you should have given him 24 hours. 24 hours... Thunderstruck For Hire
Lord Zoran Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.06.28 17:10:00 - [23] ransom is just let them escape nothin else --------------------------------------------- no sig for you !!!
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.06.28 17:25:00 - [24] Originally by: DarkElf you don't understand why ppl pay ransoms? Let's just say you come across a Veto pirate who offers a ransom. I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest that the vast majority of eve knows full well that a veto pilot will honor it and if it saves them isk and time then why wouldn't you pay it? I have only once been offered a ransom which was by a respectable corp that i turned down simply because it was on my pod which had no implants in at the time, if it was 1 of my implanted clones then i would have paid, no questions asked. DE Well, although I get the impression Veto is respectable, I don't think I'd pay a ransom, if only because it turns the whole pirate/victim thing into mere mining of people who pass by. Where's the excitement in that? You are responsible for keeping the reputation of low sec in the RED - i.e., "low sec is dangerous". How can it be dangerous if there aren't frozen corpses floating about? BTW, I have quite a collection of frozen corpses now... ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.06.28 18:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Lord Zoran ransom is just let them escape nothin else But is it OK to then give their location to your corpmates so they can go ransom the guy also? Seems like that would be another reason why people wouldn't pay ransoms. If your victims think they'll be treated like an ATM by your entire corp, they won't pay any longer. SEARCh- we find sites for you!
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.06.28 18:33:00 - [26] I remember a thread about a guy who ransomed someone in a belt for, say, five million (don't remember the exact figure), the victim was let go but remained in the belt. A corp mate of the pirate jumps in and ransoms the same guy for another five million. Then a third corpmate does it, as the victim still didn't warp away, and then a fourth one. When being ransomed the forth time the victim was like "Yeah, yeah, I know. Five million, right?" Made me lol. /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Aslovi Caldari Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.06.28 22:41:00 - [27] I have to agree with the majority of the post's, ransom means that you are set free no "free pass". However this post has openned up another point, some of the so called merc's and pirates out there give the rest of us a bad name when it comes to ransoms. Not just players but corps, due to another corp not honoring a ransom deal with our current target we are left out of pocket (well except the few 100 mill in loot) as they won't pay the ransom/ surrender fee. So now we are forced to destory there allaince, which is sad because on the main they have been a great target to figth they just can't afford to lose anymore ships. so i'll sign off with good figths G.U.A.R.D and good bye and good luck.
Jaedar Metron I G N O T U S	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:18:00 - [28] in my opinion you didnt dishonor the ransom, but I myself wouldnt want to do anytihng like that. A ransom is a "Safe passage" ticket IMO, if someone pays an IGN memeber a ransom I would want to ensure the ransomed isnt killed by an IGN memebr waiting on hte other side of the only gate leading back home.
Speed Devil Caldari Mean Machines	Posted - 2007.06.29 00:11:00 - [29] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: Speed Devil youre free to do anything u want really ransom and kill em, double profit Yeah...that really encourages "clients" to pay ransoms. Way to go...amateur hey, i play my game, u play yours i dont really care about an other pirates business even when everything i do is bad for the others. i only look out for myself. there aint much chance ill ransom the same player twice so i might aswell blow them up to get double profit owyeah, for me they arent clients, but victims, since they dont like to see me twice in local _______________________________ victim > WTH was that for? Speed Devil > hihihi =D victim > Dumbass victim > Suicided on me some guy > to much asses think that is funny another guy > Remember th
Tau IX Amarr Beach Boys C0VEN	Posted - 2007.06.29 00:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Ki An I remember a thread about a guy who ransomed someone in a belt for, say, five million (don't remember the exact figure), the victim was let go but remained in the belt. A corp mate of the pirate jumps in and ransoms the same guy for another five million. Then a third corpmate does it, as the victim still didn't warp away, and then a fourth one. When being ransomed the forth time the victim was like "Yeah, yeah, I know. Five million, right?" Made me lol. /Ki Made my day.
kessah Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.06.29 02:33:00 - [31] Always pays to honour your word imho, or you'll just end up like a certain perma banned pirate that has a rather warped view on himself. -being hated by all and eventually your own corp. Like the guy said above me, it isnt a day ticket for npc'in etc, 15mins was plenty of time to get out and either refit, bring some friends or move to a safe distance. -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3
Zkillz kun Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.29 08:21:00 - [32] Edited by: Zkillz kun on 29/06/2007 08:21:37 this thread got out of hand... but i see your points.. - gang invites are pretty lame, i think i'll quit doin it - some people think that lvl3 blocade should be tankable in a pvp fit ishkur that had just fought a drake that was older than me(sorry i'm not uber :\|) - some people have no honor and forums was a bad place to pose this question i guess the ideas that answered my question were either - i shouldn't have kileld him cause corp mate ronsoming should give the guy a free pass, or - i was justified cause i didn't help ransom the drake. i learned about the ransom before i attacked him, but i figured he wasn't my ransom he's fair game. and 15m is kinda low. i hope i haven't made my corp look bad cause we are nothing if not honorable. (did something i thought might be of questionable integrity and went and made a post :P) thanks ____________ Beets, You're among friends.
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:35:00 - [33] i agree with DE
Karlemgne The Malevolent	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:47:00 - [34] Edited by: Karlemgne on 29/06/2007 17:45:59 Originally by: Sir Lex Originally by: Karlemgne I, on the otherhand don't. If you ransomed him, you should have given him 24 hours. 24 hours... Yes, 24 hours. That is, of course, unless you specify in the ransom negotiations that this is a one time deal, and that they should leave the system. If you just leave it at isk and I let you go about your business, then you should do just that. Let him go about his business. Otherwise you are intentionally obfuscating your intentions, which, to me, is as good as just taking his money, then blowing his butt up. -Karlemgne
Alpha Sentori Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.06.29 23:01:00 - [35] I seriously don't understand why people still pay ransoms. Actually TRUSTING people to honor their word in this game? WTF are you smoking? People pay ransoms because there are Corporations out there who stand by the contract they open with the 'customer'. If you are ever invited into our ransom channel you can be assured that the price you pay (isk, singing or lately poetry) will secure your release. People pay because we stand by our word. For what it's worth. Alpha
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.06.30 16:12:00 - [36] Me personally... I would have killed him. I've only ransomed 1 person, ever... It was a 10 day old player, in a rifter. Told him 50k ISK, and I'd let him go, he would have 15 minutes to GTFO of my system. Could of seconds went by, he said he couldn't pay me due to trial account. So I killed him.. and gave him 10 mill My opinion is my own, not of my corp or my alliance. If you have problems, we can have a "who can do L4 missions faster" duel >:)
Hugoo Thraxxer Astral Descendants	Posted - 2007.06.30 21:09:00 - [37] I rarely ransom. Maybe if the customer at hand pilots a ship fitted with extraordinary goodies. Too much hazzle to put up with otherwise. They don¦t speak english, have a severely disrupted sense of time, and are in every way unwilling to comply with given orders and to just... accept their fate. But if a there is a deal about ransom and you still kill the guy afterwards, you are just plain stupid. That pilot will probably be a lot harder to milk isk from the next time he ends up in a gatecamp, and there are a few colleagues in here that do care about ransoming. You are destroying their business as well as your own in the long run.
Lord Zoran Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.07.01 11:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Lord Zoran ransom is just let them escape nothin else But is it OK to then give their location to your corpmates so they can go ransom the guy also? Seems like that would be another reason why people wouldn't pay ransoms. If your victims think they'll be treated like an ATM by your entire corp, they won't pay any longer. by paying us you escape, it's up to you if you want to get caught again....... --------------------------------------------- no sig for you !!!
Mawrin Skel	Posted - 2007.07.06 14:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Dapanman1 Originally by: Mawrin Skel ...I mean your corp should maybe kick you just cos you have no honour, but then....they let you in so standards are probably low... Well we wouldn't be much of a pirate corp if we kicked out our pirates, especially our founding members, now would we? But thanks for your input on the topic at hand. Yeah well, as I said - standards are low..... A decent pirate corp would frown on such behaviour as it is unworthy and undermines the ransom system - even pirates can have honour ya know? Also regardless of the ransom, using gang to kill someone while they mission is pretty much bottom of the food chain piracy, amoeba have more honour...... And possibly more skill too
Bellicose Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.06 16:10:00 - [40] he died 3-4 min after he payed the randsome so he wasent given much time to do anything and he payed in the first place to live and go do his mission Fake Mail
Gix Firebrand Caldari Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.06 16:46:00 - [41] Erm, if you fall for a gang invitation in low sec.. Well look at as a lesson that you paid for with however much ISK your ship cost :)

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