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OmegaTron
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Posted - 2004.01.22 17:42:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
Edited by: Mon Palae on 19/01/2004 23:07:46
It is interesting that missiles are getting looked at for a nerf with stated reasons like, "It only takes two cruise missiles to kill a frigate." While that may well be true a frigate can do a lot to protect itself from those missiles with either Defenders or Smartbombs or maybe even outrunning the chasing missile.
Anyone ever see how fast drones kill frigates? It's absurd it is so fast. What's more...there is very little you can do to defend yourself from them.
Target and shoot them? Like you have the time. They take forever to target and you usually have 6, 8 or more to deal with. In a frig given the range of your guns it is just silly. You'll be lucky to kill 2 before you die.
Smartbombs? Not a chance. A microsmartbomb does nowhere near enough damage to kill them quickly enough. Not to mention you have to essentially be in the drone's optimal range to use it on them. You WILL die if you try this stunt. Even a more heavily shielded cruiser with medium smartbombs will take a helluva bloody nose trying to make that work if not simply die as well.
Missiles? Maybe but with the proposed missile nerfs this probably goes out the window too. The only missile that was much use against drones was a torpedo as its splash range could get several. Splash range was nerfed and generally frigates can't carry torps anyway. So it is cruise missiles then. Of course, a standard launcher only carries one cruise missile so you will be reloading a lot and you have 8 drones chasing you. But wait! The proposed coming nerf to cruise missiles will see them not able to catch a frigate as the firgate is too agile. So how is it that missiles will shoot down drones? Answer...they won't. Or you go to rockets and try and hit each drone several times...times 8 drones.
If drones can act as autonomous killing machines then people should have an automatic way to shoot them down. The obvious answer would seem to be Defender missiles. 1 hit = 1 kill. Remember, Defenders only have a 10km range and most ships don't have enough launchers (not to mention actually having Defenders in them) to nail all 8 before they get close so some drones will get their shots in.
I have asked numerous people the best way to fight drones and the answer I invariably get is, "Kill the command ship, ignore the drones beyond trying to not let them get close."
It would be nice to have a reasonable means to fight drones. It would allow a possible way to crash a gate camp where 2 or more ships hover over the JIP with 16+ drones out. Of course, the lag in that situation is horrendous (and this would make it worse) but a ship like a Raven or Caracal could pop through and let Defenders fly clearing out the drones for follow-on ships. Yes...the Raven might die doing that and especially the Caracal probably would but it is a tactic and in a fleet engagement it may be a very worthwhile tactic.
Be fun to see if nothing else.
now this is the reason why everything is being hit with the nerf bat because of players like this who do not know how to play the game and have lost there ship(s) to someone with drones.
Soooo they point the finger at CCP and blame the drones, then b!tch b!tch whine whine whaa whaa and poof the magic nerf bat starts swinging around wrecklessly hitting everything in its path IF YOU CAN'T PLAY THE GAME OR CAN'T CONTROL YOURSELF WHEN LOSEING YOUR PRECIOUS SHIP(S) THEN LOG OFF, WALK OVER TO YOUR TOY BOX AND PULL OUT SOME TOYS THAT YOU CAN CONTROL OK
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A Plague is comming.... |
OmegaTron
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Posted - 2004.01.22 17:49:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Quote:
why use defenders when 1 or 2 torps will take care of your pest problem you'll need 1 defender for each drone and i have 9 drones. i think it will take alot longer to pop off 9 or 10 drones with defenders than it would take with 1 or 2 torpedos. just my opinion
This is generally the way to go about it but you may have missed the part where CCP is set to nerf missiles. Granted it hasn't happened yet but CCP seems pretty committed to the idea.
Essentially, CCP wants to change missiles such that the heavier sort cannot track and hit smaller ships. In essence, cruise missiles and torpedoes will not be able to hit a frigate unless the frigate is moving very slow and straight. Given that, I think it is safe to assume torpedoes and cruise missiles will have an even harder time tracking and hitting the much smaller and much more nimble drones. You are now faced with using heavies at best (and it wouldn't surprise me if they are too big as well) and likely down to rockets. It will take more than one rocket to kill a drone I believe and with little splash damage you are in the position of having to manually target lock 8 drones, fire multiple missiles at each and do so from within a range that will likely see those drones coming after you.
well unless someone is useing a new type of drone that zig zags when approuching all drones fly straight at you and they stay very close together so launching 1 or 2 torps there way should do the trick maybe 3 after the nerf bat hits the missles
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A Plague is comming.... |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 18:24:00 -
[33]
Quote:
well unless someone is useing a new type of drone that zig zags when approuching all drones fly straight at you and they stay very close together so launching 1 or 2 torps there way should do the trick maybe 3 after the nerf bat hits the missles
I see missiles miss straight flying slow moving targets all the time. The missile then turns around and go again and keep doing it till they hit. If missiles like the torp and cruise get an agility hit they will be even harder pressed to turn around and come back. Once drones are on the target the circle so you have an even bigger problem trying to hit them not to mention you'll be hitting yourself with your own splash damage (or damage from a buddy).
As for the bit about whining it is you who needs to leave the game and go lock yourself in a toy box and hide from the world. Apparently you cannot handle any change that might actually see your precious drones hurt. This whole suggestion is a way to bring mroe FUN to the game. Not just happily sit in your battelship pummeling things long range with big guns and creaming anything that gets close with drones. God forbid if you'd actually have to think about tactics and different loadouts for multiple possibilities. Don't hurt yourself thinking too hard...hate to fry the two neurons you have left.
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Namarus
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Posted - 2004.01.22 18:30:00 -
[34]
You still haven't answered the question.
Can you kill 1 on 1 a Heavy combat drone with your frigate?
If the answer is yes, then your problem is the number of drones being used against you, and not the fact that drones are too tough.
Drones are the last line of defense for Capital ships to defend themselves from Frigates. If you think that your 100k isk Frigate should have a chance solo on a 60M-110M Battleship, I would like to have some of what you have been smoking.
Nothing to see here .... move along. |
Blade Durrant
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Posted - 2004.01.22 18:42:00 -
[35]
Actually 8 heavy drones actually does as much or more than a kitted cruiser. But people dont want to look at that. Battleships have multiple hardpoints, they can equip enough weapons to equip a few to deal with close range targets (i.e short range autocannons, blasters, even some cruiser/frigate weapons). Maybe if people actually used the idea of combined arms fleets we wouldnt have to deal with the constant discussion that DRONE = FRIGATE.
DRONE != FRIGATE.
Honestly drones are annoyingly difficult to target, frigates cant carry torps, not to mention hvy drones have a 20km range, never miss, and do absurd amounts of dot in packs. And anything should be capable of killing anything else if one pilot is stupid or plain unlucky. Honestly, Battleship blowhard pilots should shut up about "frigates shouldnt be able to kill my precious battleship because it doesnt cost nearly as much."
In war weapons are nearly always cheaper than the thing they are designed to kill. Missiles are about 1% (or many times less) of the value of the target they are being shot at. Aircraft is the biggest risk to a naval taskforce because they can launch large amounts of missiles at targets in short amounts of time. Submarines are considered just as dangerous. A torpedo (which is VASTLY cheaper than its target) can easily sink a battleship or carrier in one hit.
So using historical precedents we see than smaller vessels of war are vastly more dangerous to big ones. If a ship captain chooses not to have lighter escorts, thats his problem, hope he's prepared to deal with threats.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 22:06:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 22/01/2004 22:07:56
Quote:
If you think that your 100k isk Frigate should have a chance solo on a 60M-110M Battleship, I would like to have some of what you have been smoking.
First, show me where I suggested any such thing.
Second, tell me how long you think it'd take a frigate to kill a battleship by itself in EVE. Even if the frigate gets its optimal range and the battleship does absolutley nothing but sit there as a target. Five minutes? Ten minutes? Now consider the same situation with a battleship actively defending itself with shield hardeners, shield boosters and so on (but not trying to shoot down the frigate) and recalculate (in some cases such as a shield tanked Scorp the answer is the frig will never kill the battleship...five probably couldn't). Finally consider a fully fighting battleship trying to kill the frigate except without drones.
The point of getting frigates and cruisers a chance to get in close to a battleship and survive for any reasonable amount of time is to make combined fleet battles worthwhile rather than only 20 battleship slugfests. All sorts of tactics could be used making for very interesting situations. Frigates zipping in to scramble/web a battleship or try to drain its capacitor. Cruisers defending the battleships from the frigates. Other cruisers trying to kill the cruisers attacking the frigates. Battleships trying to pound the snot out of other battleships long range. Sounds like great fun to me. Only reason it NEVER happens is because of drones and no good answer to them. The bottomline choice for battle in EVE is field as many battleships as you can because nothing else helps much (in the case of cruisers) or not at all (in the case of frigates).
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Roba
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Posted - 2004.01.22 22:17:00 -
[37]
I swear, you hard core frig piolts just need to learn how to handle the drones.
Kestrel/Cruise/MWD
Thats all it takes. Use the MWD to keep the drones at more then 20km and then pick them off with the cruise, one missile each. Or you can have one frig draw them away. First frig attacks the throax then hits the mwd and leads the drones 100km from the battle then warps back. There drones are no long a problem.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.01.22 23:04:00 -
[38]
Why do I get the feeling everytime someone mentions mixed fleet battles they mean frigates ripping battleships a new one.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 23:08:00 -
[39]
Quote:
I swear, you hard core frig piolts just need to learn how to handle the drones.
Kestrel/Cruise/MWD
Thats all it takes. Use the MWD to keep the drones at more then 20km and then pick them off with the cruise, one missile each. Or you can have one frig draw them away. First frig attacks the throax then hits the mwd and leads the drones 100km from the battle then warps back. There drones are no long a problem.
Who ARE you fighting? I really want to know because apparently you've found battleship pilots who are complete idiots.
Do you REALLY think it is that easy? These are not NPCs to be 'drawn' away. Take my mate's Megathron for instance. If you sit out at 60km he'll rail your Kestrel into oblivion. If you sit at 20-30km his blasters will nail your Kestrel into oblivion...he won't even launch his drones in this case. Get within 10km to get 'under' his guns and out pop the drones. You'll be lucky to kill four of them and the other four will eat you alive and he will replace the four dead ones (if you managed that) with more from his drone bay.
In fact, I doubt you will kill four drones. I think a single cruise missile will not kill an Ogre and of course cruise don't have the same splash damage potential a torp does and a Kestrel can't carry torps anyway.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.22 23:15:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Why do I get the feeling everytime someone mentions mixed fleet battles they mean frigates ripping battleships a new one.
*sigh*
Some poeple on the boards seem to have a real problem with reading comprehension.
Where was it EVER suggested or implied in this thread by people supporting the idea of combined fleet battles that frigates should be able to "rip battleships a new one"?
How would the change I proposed in the original post in this thread (Defenders being able to target drones) allow frigates to own battleships?
Please re-read what I posted earlier.
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OmegaTron
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Posted - 2004.01.22 23:55:00 -
[41]
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As for the bit about whining it is you who needs to leave the game and go lock yourself in a toy box and hide from the world. Apparently you cannot handle any change that might actually see your precious drones hurt. This whole suggestion is a way to bring mroe FUN to the game. Not just happily sit in your battelship pummeling things long range with big guns and creaming anything that gets close with drones. God forbid if you'd actually have to think about tactics and different loadouts for multiple possibilities. Don't hurt yourself thinking too hard...hate to fry the two neurons you have left.
ok first off i didn't start this thread because i don't know how to play EVEi have gotten my a$$ handed to before from drones and i didn't go whine on a thread and hope CCP would make it all better
instead u can just train yourself to fly a ship(caldari) to counter the drones or just find a better set-up on your ship takes less than 2 neurons to figure this out
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A Plague is comming.... |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.23 00:44:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 23/01/2004 00:50:07
Quote:
ok first off i didn't start this thread because i don't know how to play EVEi have gotten my a$$ handed to before from drones and i didn't go whine on a thread and hope CCP would make it all better
instead u can just train yourself to fly a ship(caldari) to counter the drones or just find a better set-up on your ship takes less than 2 neurons to figure this out
I didn't start this thread because I don't know how to play EVE. I've had my ass handed to me twice by drones. Once I was in a shuttle...the other time in a Caracal. In the shuttle I thought I'd make the gate...I was wrong. In the Caracal I landed under a JIP camp with 16 drones and 8 battleships and 1 cruiser (I think I still have the EVE mail listing them all). I was toast on that one drones or no drones (although the drones hit me up with horrendous lag but I'm not pretending those battleships wouldn't have creamed me no matter what).
Neither of those occasions prompted a thread from me *****ing about anything (those were many weeks ago...I didn't petition either as I got caught fair and square even if it did suck). I actually never use drones but I have many mates that do and via combat testing and watching them in action I have a healthy respect for what drones do.
So, I start a thread proposing a way I think EVE could be more fun. I have listed my reasons and reasoning. Many have replied honestly regardless of side and many have hauled off on petulant little rants.
If you want to try and make a better game that is more fun then help by adding something constructive (which does not mean you have to agree). Otheriwse go somewhere else if you want to engage in ad hominem attacks (go look it up). If you can manage to form a coherent argument on why I'm all wrong then have at it. If the best argument you can manage is, "WALK OVER TO YOUR TOY BOX AND PULL OUT SOME TOYS THAT YOU CAN CONTROL" then you really have nothing to say and are merely wasting bandwidth, electricity and probably air.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.01.23 02:52:00 -
[43]
I was under the impression that this thread was about adding a new way to counter drones (defender missiles auto-targeting them since they auto-target you) and not about nerfing drones.
Why does it seem that a lot of people are talking about drones being nerfed or that they are under that impression? Why would it be so wrong to make defenders effective against drones? I think it would go a long way to balance things out.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.01.23 04:39:00 -
[44]
Quote:
Why does it seem that a lot of people are talking about drones being nerfed or that they are under that impression?
Because they donŠt read. Probably the type of people that say "yeah... mhmmm... yeah" all the time when youŠre talking to them, just to ask you what you said when youŠre finished.
Quote:
Why would it be so wrong to make defenders effective against drones?
Because youŠd make every raven and caracal out there the absolute anti-drone machine. After a change like this, there would still nobody be using frigates because caracals and ravens would do a much better job killing drones... before they switch to CMs and torps to back into their normal fighting habit.
Actually, they would be doing sucha good job at it that people simply stop using drones... and that shouldnŠt be something one should aim for when balancing stuff out.
Quote:
I think it would go a long way to balance things out.
As you can see, I donŠt  That idea about the ECM-burst being turned into a sort of "drone disruptor" however is much more attractive IMHO. Reminds me of Rogue Drones.
@people who say "drone = frigate":
Read this please. Especially the paragraphs 3 to 6.
Mai's Idealog |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.23 06:47:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 23/01/2004 06:48:05
Quote:
Because youŠd make every raven and caracal out there the absolute anti-drone machine. After a change like this, there would still nobody be using frigates because caracals and ravens would do a much better job killing drones... before they switch to CMs and torps to back into their normal fighting habit.
Actually, they would be doing sucha good job at it that people simply stop using drones... and that shouldnŠt be something one should aim for when balancing stuff out.
Take note OmegaTron. This is a good response from someone who disagrees.
As for MaiLina's issues:
So what if every Raven and Caracal out there becomes an anit-drone machine? The same could be said for them being anti-missile machines. Nobody has issue with that.
If a Raven wants to be an anti-drone machine then fine. That means the Raven isn't missile spamming me.
This is a great example of the added thought that would have to go into your ship fittings. Does the Raven mount siege launchers and get horrid ROF on defenders loaded into it or do they go with standard launchers and give up using cruise (effectively as it can hold only one) and torps? Or split the difference with an H-50? When under attack what ammo do they now have to choose?
Also, remember that Defenders only have a 10km range. They won't be swatting drones down all over the place. Do you put a Caracal or Raven as drone defense on each ship you want protected? Probably not but maybe you can see the added options for battle this would give you.
Also remember that the Defenders not only would deal with drones but any incoming missiles. The way to beat Defenders is to overload their ability to defend so yet more tactical options.
Finally, Defenders go after the nearest target. I'm not entirely certain a Raven could ripple-fire 6 Defenders and expect to shoot down 6 drones. More likely 6 Defenders would zoom to one drone. Remaining Defenders might turn for other targets but Defenders have a very short lifespan...be lucky to shoot down 2 or 3 drones then wait for the launcher to recycle while the remaining 5 (or whatever) drones lay into you.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.01.23 07:15:00 -
[46]
Defenders don`t have 10km range.
They have a 10sec flight time and over 2km/sec speed (I`m at work, can`t look it up).
So they have at least 20km range.
Still, I don`t think defenders should fire at drones. FOF cruises and even targeted missiles are doing that job nicely. (although it takes forever to get a lock on the drones now)
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s0cks
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Posted - 2004.01.23 11:05:00 -
[47]
Idea:
Use ECM Jamming from a range of roughly 40-60km so he can't fire his big guns. Then fire a cruise at his drones if he deploys em. Problem with this is that we must be carrying the proper ECM equipment.
This can be done, but more then often we would like to sramble and web our openents, so then when he releases his drones we are toast. You'll be surprised how many battleship owners run away once they have their drones disabled and cant hit us for sh*t (either cus we r to close or cus we have em jammed).
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OmegaTron
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Posted - 2004.01.23 12:39:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Defenders don`t have 10km range.
They have a 10sec flight time and over 2km/sec speed (I`m at work, can`t look it up).
So they have at least 20km range.
Still, I don`t think defenders should fire at drones. FOF cruises and even targeted missiles are doing that job nicely. (although it takes forever to get a lock on the drones now)
hey Mon heres a good answer for ya this is a good solution to your problem Mon
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A Plague is comming.... |
OmegaTron
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Posted - 2004.01.23 12:41:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Idea:
Use ECM Jamming from a range of roughly 40-60km so he can't fire his big guns. Then fire a cruise at his drones if he deploys em. Problem with this is that we must be carrying the proper ECM equipment.
This can be done, but more then often we would like to sramble and web our openents, so then when he releases his drones we are toast. You'll be surprised how many battleship owners run away once they have their drones disabled and cant hit us for sh*t (either cus we r to close or cus we have em jammed).
and look another good answer these answers r called COMBAT TACTICS Lesson 1 in COMBAT TACTICS = setting up your ship.
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A Plague is comming.... |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.23 18:15:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Idea:
Use ECM Jamming from a range of roughly 40-60km so he can't fire his big guns. Then fire a cruise at his drones if he deploys em. Problem with this is that we must be carrying the proper ECM equipment.
This can be done, but more then often we would like to sramble and web our openents, so then when he releases his drones we are toast. You'll be surprised how many battleship owners run away once they have their drones disabled and cant hit us for sh*t (either cus we r to close or cus we have em jammed).
That's the problem of course...jamming.
If you know what ship you will face you need at least three race specific jammers. If you don't you need 4 multispectral. This all assumes he doesn't have ECCM of course.
From 40-60km out he isn't going to deploy his drones anyway and especially not when he's jammed.
Now you send in your ships to attack him close range. IIRC drones auto-defend the mothership with no need for targetting. Bye-bye to your cruiser/frigate that is attacking close range.
Yes, with many ships doing many different things you can conceive of ways to get by drones but a large part depends on the other pilot's stupidity.
Why not get rid of Defenders altogether so my missiles can go after you? You can smartbomb them still or dodge them or even shoot them down with your guns (yes, missiles can be targetted). I can think of lots of ways for people to handle missiles without Defenders so I say toss them. Does that seem fair enough?
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Namarus
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Posted - 2004.01.23 21:33:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Namarus on 23/01/2004 21:33:44
Quote:
Now you send in your ships to attack him close range. IIRC drones auto-defend the mothership with no need for targetting. Bye-bye to your cruiser/frigate that is attacking close range.
So he's jammed now, why shoot, him,....oh no the drones auto defend him. How about this as an idea? Kill his drones????
Clear up his drones, then shoot him. If he pulls his drones in, then you don't have any problems with drones anymore so you shoot him.
Simple.
Nothing to see here .... move along. |
Modune
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Posted - 2004.01.23 23:41:00 -
[52]
You guys all have some good ideas. here is what works for me
1. use speed reducing mods, if you cant reduce the drone speed by half that gives you a 100% adiitional fighting time
2. mines there flight path, when they are in a direct line following you
3. and now that there monuverability is afected heavy missles will hit now
4/. if you have power ECM will slow they down also a little
with this statergy i can shoot down 4 -5 drones before they even get a shot off
good luck
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.01.23 23:53:00 -
[53]
So because drones kick frigate butt they need nerfing, how about not using frigates to attack drone carriers, and BSs, cause maybe, just maybe they have quite effective means of dealing with you, if you ask me, frigates should pose a threat in a group for cruisers, but be annoying flees not worthy of attention for battleships. and a cruiser group should pose a serious threath for BSs. There is absolutely no justification for allowing frigates any change whatsoever of doing damage of any kind to a battleship IMO even the idea of them jamming a battleship borders insanity. Combined fleet actions sure, but a rubberboat with a marine and a m-16 taking on aircraft carriers is what your asking for.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2004.01.24 03:15:00 -
[54]
all you need to take out drones is heavy FoF missiles, all this talk about defender missiles is useless since we already have anti-drone missiles,
if anyone every reads the skills and items descriptions you will find that FoF`s are designed for such engagements,
having a slow ship is no good, you wont take out anything unless you have mwd fitted, if you fly in a straight line the cruiser/battleship can hit you easily, if you orbit your as good as dead from the drones if you are not fast enough,
all i have is a rifter and i can handle 8 heavy drones and a thorax without getting killed, purely through speed and fof`s
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Blade Durrant
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Posted - 2004.01.24 12:05:00 -
[55]
Quote:
So because drones kick frigate butt they need nerfing, how about not using frigates to attack drone carriers, and BSs, cause maybe, just maybe they have quite effective means of dealing with you, if you ask me, frigates should pose a threat in a group for cruisers, but be annoying flees not worthy of attention for battleships. and a cruiser group should pose a serious threath for BSs. There is absolutely no justification for allowing frigates any change whatsoever of doing damage of any kind to a battleship IMO even the idea of them jamming a battleship borders insanity. Combined fleet actions sure, but a rubberboat with a marine and a m-16 taking on aircraft carriers is what your asking for.
*sigh* Some people just dont get it. Yes heavy drones need a slight nerf. They have a 100% accurracy rate for what 16 dmg every 2 seconds. They require 0 lock time, have enough shields/hp to take 2-3 fof heavies each, and with the current fof - lag problems are extremely annoying to shoot at. But people constantly assuming the "Oh i have the almighty uber ebil battleship. Im invincible to everything smaller than me." is just annoying. Comparing a frigate to a guy in a motorboat with an m16 is just stupid. A frigate is more like a smaller vessel carrying lighter weapons, armor, etc. that is much faster, and much more agile than a battleship. And there's a reason battleships arent used anymore. Aircraft, submarines, and fast attack ships are much too effective against them. The only use for a battleship is surface bombardment. And we arent talking about 1 frigate doing any damage. You can ignore 1 frigate shooting at you (if you have a decent shield booster). But a swarm of frigates (5+) should very well be able to cause significant damage. However back to the topic.
There does indeed need to be a better method of dealing with drones. The 20km/100% range/accuracy of heavy drones, combined with their durability (comparable to a T1 frigate, but much more difficult ot target) makes them extremely difficult to kill. In fact you need a fof weapon to do it. But they dont make fof torpedoes, which would be ideal for the job. Defenders targeting drones is a good idea, mainly because something needs to be done about drones. And ravens suck anyway. Scorpions are good ew ships, but without backup they are just expensive cannon fodder. And defenders need to target missiles on gang mates.
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Arleonenis
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Posted - 2004.01.24 12:21:00 -
[56]
I only want that smaller autocannons could automatically fire to any incoming missles/drones and larger autocannons on battleships automatically target and fire to frigates. There should be option to defenders to automatically fire to incoming missles only.
Why i speaking this? Becouse i know that ONE kestrel with heavys and mwd chased TWO blackbirds (they hided in station).
Frigate without mwd is a crap, but with mwd is untochable to cruisers, battleships that don`t have drones. It could outrun all missles, avoid smartbombs range, and is to fast to be tracked by main cannons, so when you gave frigate weapon that could kill easily drones (kestrel could kill half drones in one salvo, give him a assault launchers and it will kill all drones almost instantly with defenders) it will be untochable... it is frigate not GOD vessel that could play with mighty battleships, it`s a cheap fighting unit that could be used in specific tactical situation not one on one with battleships or cruiser.
If you think that frigate is to crap now intall for all gods mwd and use only missles this is to powerfull combination now...
If you don`t see the point you aren`t combat worthy pilots, or use only few primitive tactics as: "he have hammer i want bigger hammer"
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Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2004.01.24 14:40:00 -
[57]
i use my rifter with much the same tactic, i can outrun any missile and avoid the guns of cruisers battleships, drones are a bit of a problem but they are not impossable to tackle,
defenders wont make any difference to incoming drones, by the time you get in range to fire the defender it will be too late, FoF`s are the only option and they are good enough if you are a good enough frigate pilot.
if it wasnt for drones then nothing would be able to touch me, that wouldnt be very realistic or fair to the battlship pilot that took all that time to train the drone skill in the first place, us frigate pilots need to give BS`s and cruisers a fighting chance you know 
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Yolan
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Posted - 2004.01.24 16:06:00 -
[58]
I think drones are pretty well balanced. It's the amount that certain ships can carry that is out. A Thorax can carry lots of drones but to balance it out it has no launchers. However tier 1 bships have turrets, launchers and a huge drone bay, this the unbalanced part.
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Mamer
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Posted - 2004.01.24 19:10:00 -
[59]
What about perhaps a new brand of weapon, very small, rapid fire, automated, fast turret speed, short range of course like a point defense laser system, for anti-drone use only. Not one shot kills em, but something to give ya a fighting chance if you are not up to speed on other tactics.
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Luviera Silverwave
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Posted - 2004.01.25 02:27:00 -
[60]
I Agree 100% with the poster, Drones and Frigate don't work, or at least the work, but to effective.
Smartbomb's and drones and FoF missles are the things what atm are killing from my point of view alot of the frigates vs any bigger ship kind of battle.
Weapons in overal should have a weakness, Like missiles for instance could have a minimum fire range, so that cruise missles can't be shot from point blank range.
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