EVE Search - Do Not Globalize the Market!

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Do Not Globalize the Market!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Nepereta	Posted - 2004.01.20 13:46:00 - [31] Pro- Global Market The real world market is Global and it is interesting enough! Highway Systems: of course! In RL flying from London - New York is cheaper compared to flying the same distance between a couple of obscure regional towns. So yes to Global! and Yes to Highway!
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.01.20 14:10:00 - [32] If the market is to be visible galaxy wide I like to see it shift every nanosecond too to illustrate with what ease fortunes are shifting with unrestricted trade. Tough luck moving that cargo 20 jumps, when you're there the prices don't match anymore. Convert Stations
Lord Guerdo	Posted - 2004.01.20 14:18:00 - [33] Quote: Quote: Considering that the EVE universe has instant galaxy-wide communications, limiting market searches to one region never made any sense anyway. If I am in Pator and want to know what Tachyon Beam Lasers sell for in Tash-Murkon Prime, there is NO valid storyline reason why I shouldn't be able to find out by walking over to the station's commerce terminal and hitting a few buttons... Besides, global market views would NOT destroy regional markets. If something is cheaper 20 jumps away, people will have a decision to make: pay more and get it NOW, or fly halfway across the universe to save a few ISK. I've personally bought many an item at inflated prices because it was present at my current station and I didn't feel like wasting 20 minutes to go get it 10 jumps away and come back! Taking popular items to places 15 jumps away from a highway system and putting them on the market for a 10-20% markup WILL still make you money... especially if any of the alliances ever open their borders and allow non-members to buy and sell there. With Tech 2 about to end the ability for a corp to be self-sufficient we need a better market system... Once there are only a few manufacturers of any given item there will be plenty of profit in reselling that item places no one makes it, even WITH global market views. After all, deep space alliances and megacorps have tens of BILLIONS of ISK to throw around... they'll pay extra to buy close to home. Works in theory. In the practice of Eve's universe? People see Miner IIs selling for 1.4m isk in Heimatar and reprice the ones in Gehi -600k isk within hours to match. But isnt that what market traders are supposed to do? theyre the guys that make the supply and demand, making cash by filling up the demand supplies. that is what market traders do, please stop whinning about how hard done by you are. Lord Guerdo Biomass Cartel I mean c'mon, just think about it. What would make more sense then the 3 most hated alliances teaming up to lay waste to the people they all hate anyways? CA is already allied with PA, and TPS lies between the two alliances. Natural allies to be sure. But it's not just that, all but PA (and even some of them) have adopted a "stfu and die, or come and fight us, we don't give a **** what you think or do" philosophy, as well as a PvP Kill everyone not friend kind of mentality. These are the people in eve that kill or convert, the ones dedicated to the death of others, because history, circumstance, and the rest of eve have driven then to do so (except TPS, who are just cool ass pirates ).
Luviera Silverwave	Posted - 2004.01.20 14:25:00 - [34] I'm agains't the idea of being able to see all items on the market, for it will bring down the eve economey. Mega corps who have the resources will have to much profit of this, and little fish will never be able to compansate... And I also fear that it will go nuts when loading the market UI, ______________ System spec's: Windows XP Professional AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2500+, MMX, 3DNow, ~1.8GHz Memory: 1536MB RAM DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0b NVIDIA GeForce4 FX 5950 Ultra 256.0 MB at 1280*1024 IIYAMA MA203DT Monitor Max Res: 1920,1440 SB Audigy Audio
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.01.20 14:30:00 - [35] Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 20/01/2004 14:44:43 Why is it that no pirate can spell properly? That leads me to think that they might all be sensor dampened kids lashing out at the hard to grasp world, say it ain't so. Whining, mining, not whinning or minning. Oh and what roleplayed reason is there for the megacorporations behind the states and empires to allow free trade happening? Convert Stations
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.01.20 15:35:00 - [36] Quote: Quote: Quote: Considering that the EVE universe has instant galaxy-wide communications, limiting market searches to one region never made any sense anyway. If I am in Pator and want to know what Tachyon Beam Lasers sell for in Tash-Murkon Prime, there is NO valid storyline reason why I shouldn't be able to find out by walking over to the station's commerce terminal and hitting a few buttons... Besides, global market views would NOT destroy regional markets. If something is cheaper 20 jumps away, people will have a decision to make: pay more and get it NOW, or fly halfway across the universe to save a few ISK. I've personally bought many an item at inflated prices because it was present at my current station and I didn't feel like wasting 20 minutes to go get it 10 jumps away and come back! Taking popular items to places 15 jumps away from a highway system and putting them on the market for a 10-20% markup WILL still make you money... especially if any of the alliances ever open their borders and allow non-members to buy and sell there. With Tech 2 about to end the ability for a corp to be self-sufficient we need a better market system... Once there are only a few manufacturers of any given item there will be plenty of profit in reselling that item places no one makes it, even WITH global market views. After all, deep space alliances and megacorps have tens of BILLIONS of ISK to throw around... they'll pay extra to buy close to home. Works in theory. In the practice of Eve's universe? People see Miner IIs selling for 1.4m isk in Heimatar and reprice the ones in Gehi -600k isk within hours to match. But isnt that what market traders are supposed to do? theyre the guys that make the supply and demand, making cash by filling up the demand supplies. that is what market traders do, please stop whinning about how hard done by you are. Lord Guerdo Biomass Cartel Guerdo, a real market trader would have used the fact that Miner IIs were selling 600k below the price in Gehi by purchasing the lasers at 1.4m and transporting them to Gehi for a 600k turnover. But the prices shifted too quickly from panic suppliers fearing the lack of travel time between the 2 locations. So when the price dropped in Heimatar, it dropped universally. The few remaining opportunities for trade exist because of the effort it takes to collect the prices. Remove the effort with a universal scan of the market and the opportunities for trade go with it. That is a simple statement of fact, not a whine. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2004.01.20 15:43:00 - [37] Quote: The few remaining opportunities for trade exist because of the effort it takes to collect the prices. Remove the effort with a universal scan of the market and the opportunities for trade go with it. That is a simple statement of fact, not a whine. I agree completely. A universal market wouldn't be like a world market, it'd be like buying petrol in an area where the service stations are all checking each others prices and so end up identical (or nearly identical). _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Ertai Vodalion	Posted - 2004.01.20 16:45:00 - [38] What if global market is only available with an advanced Trading skill that requires Trading 5, and is a level 5 or 8 skill ? The skill level then defines the market range you can check (level 5 being the whole Galaxy) ? as int/mem Chars are top notch skillpointrockers actually this would give the charisma willpower Pilot a chance to catch up and would limit the number of player being able to work the entire market... a possible further addition could be a skill that allows remote selling in the same scale.. we need some skills that are not based on int & mem .....
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.01.20 16:47:00 - [39] How about just keeping it how it is and get the trade skill into the game, even at .01% increased profit per lvl I'd get it. Convert Stations
Ertai Vodalion	Posted - 2004.01.20 17:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Ertai Vodalion on 20/01/2004 17:23:11 Quote: How about just keeping it how it is and get the trade skill into the game, even at .01% increased profit per lvl I'd get it. I have it since char creation - one week after release ... but the ones crying loudest get served first ... -highway systems -rebalancing of Modules -rebalalncing of ships -drone lag -new agent system -tech2 and now that trading finally gets in - yeah sure open the global market to everyone so trading really cuts the edge .. *sigh PS: I want to fly all races BS without learning the skills !
Archemedes	Posted - 2004.01.21 10:58:00 - [41] I think the people who are afraid a global market will kill trading are forgetting that the current system will be DEAD in a matter of weeks. Soon, when you go to buy a module, you will NOT be buying one of the over-produced, minimum-profit Tech 1 versions! You will be buying a looted Tech 1 version (which will be FAR cheaper than it is now... look how much looted mining lasers dropped even when Miner 2s were 2.5 mil) off the GLOBAL Trade channel, or you will buy a Tech 2 manufactured module. These Tech 2 modules will be DIFFERENT in several ways: - They will ONLY be made by serious manufacturers (due to skills and expense of getting a BP), and those manufacturers are less likely to kill their own profits by excessively undercutting prices. These will be the real pros, not noobs with unlimited BPCs and no economic sense! - There will be only a limited supply of BPs. A global market will be needed because there might well only be a dozen stations in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE selling a particular item. - Because of lower supplies and few manufacturers, people will have to travel a long way (remember, many people do NOT stay near the highways full-time!) to go to the source so there WILL be lots of opportunity for traders. - A lot of people now 'live' in 0.0 space. It is VITAL for the health of the market that 0.0 alliances allow outside traders to sell in their stations (or at least ONE station publicly designated as a trade station). These alliances will not be able to make everything they need because there won't be enough Tech 2 BPs, so they will NEED to buy from Empire-based corps. Note: My views are based on one very important assumption. I assume that there will NOT be inter-region remote buy orders. People should be able to view the market from anywhere, but NOT buy a Tachyon Beam 2 selling in Amarr while they sit in a station in Curse! In short, I feel the future of trade lies NOT in inter-empire trading of standard goods, but rather in hauling Tech 2 items out to places that no one makes them or taking goods from Empire space out to the alliances and selling them, then bringing back rare minerals (since the alliances have more Megacyte, Morphite, and Zydrine than they could possibly use) for sale at a markup in the Empires. Sure the highways make central Empire space a smaller place, but that's fine... there ARE no highways to 0.0 space and THAT is where the real profits will eventually be. Besides, I've spent 20+ jumps travelling from one Empire system to another... people who AREN'T based near a highway will still need to travel (or pay someone ELSE to) once things aren't available in every region. So please stop worrying about profit from Tech 1 gear... it's about to become noob gear and noob gear isn't all that profitable.
IZON	Posted - 2004.01.21 11:46:00 - [42] Quote: The few remaining opportunities for trade exist because of the effort it takes to collect the prices. Remove the effort with a universal scan of the market and the opportunities for trade go with it. That is a simple statement of fact, not a whine. I disagree. Because you assume that inter-region buying will be possible. That would be a faux pas on CCP's part. Observing prices remotely should be allowed, if you want to trade between regions you should be 'physically' there, in the correct region, to excute a buy or sell order (if it were up to me I'd make it 'System' specific perhaps even station specific). "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2004.01.21 14:09:00 - [43] Quote: Maybe its because some whining lying carebear decided to tell TomB a story about how hard it was to use regional markets and how people were quitting the game because of it. I mean, thats usually how these kinds of stupid changes come to be Or maybe they only implemented regional markets because of the extensive DB-query it would take to use a global market in the first place? Whatever you think how that would affect the market... not having a global market in the year 23236 is nonsense which is probably the reason why CCP are flirting with the concept. Mai's Idealog
Lord Zap	Posted - 2004.01.21 14:20:00 - [44] Quote: kneejerk Kneetrembler
IZON	Posted - 2004.01.21 14:23:00 - [45] Quote: Or maybe they only implemented regional markets because of the extensive DB-query it would take to use a global market in the first place? Whatever you think how that would affect the market... not having a global market in the year 23236 is nonsense which is probably the reason why CCP are flirting with the concept. hehe, like inventing a car with square wheels (I'm sure it was a good idea at the time, until you wanted to go somwhere...) "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.01.21 14:51:00 - [46] Quote: not having a global market in the year 23236 is nonsense which is probably the reason why CCP are flirting with the concept. First of all it's galaxy wide not global and second your nonsense comment is just that, why should EVE emulate our current financial state? I'd think they've learnt a few things and forgotten others over time. I've already stated, why should the megacorporations promote free trade and a galaxy wide market? Is it in their petty interest? They are forces to be reckoned with and do throw their weight around regardless of consumer polls. Dark future? Perhaps, I can already see corporate feudalism on the horizon and it's only 2004. Convert Stations
IZON	Posted - 2004.01.21 15:02:00 - [47] Edited by: IZON on 21/01/2004 15:19:03 Quote: I've already stated, why should the megacorporations promote free trade and a galaxy wide market? Is it in their petty interest? They are forces to be reckoned with and do throw their weight around regardless of consumer polls. I'm not in a megacorp, but I can see the benefit it would bring to pvp and general gameplay. A galaxy wide market is common sense, it should have been in from the start, and the idea that it's a megacorp bleeting from behind the walls at CCP would give them credit where non is due. "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.01.21 15:06:00 - [48] I don't care how it was thought out in the beginning, if they just lucked out or had thought about megacorporations influencing business information distribution, a galaxy wide market search will water the game down. There's reasons for keeping the market as it is now, I see none for changing it. Convert Stations
IZON	Posted - 2004.01.21 15:17:00 - [49] Quote: I don't care how it was thought out in the beginning, if they just lucked out or had thought about megacorporations influencing business information distribution, a galaxy wide market search will water the game down. some examples please Quote: There's reasons for keeping the market as it is now, I see none for changing it. some examples please "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.01.21 15:29:00 - [50] Example being fewer traders managing a larger portion of the market due to easy to use interface covering the whole galaxy. Smalltime traders won't even bother 'cause the quantities they deal in will be pressed to the floor and really only yielding any profit in bulk, said bulk being bought up by the big fish, much like the market of today. I've stated the reasons to keep it the way it is, you give me reasons to change it. Convert Stations
IZON	Posted - 2004.01.21 15:49:00 - [51] Quote: Example being fewer traders managing a larger portion of the market due to easy to use interface covering the whole galaxy. Smalltime traders won't even bother 'cause the quantities they deal in will be pressed to the floor and really only yielding any profit in bulk, said bulk being bought up by the big fish, much like the market of today. I've stated the reasons to keep it the way it is, you give me reasons to change it. Ah Monopolisation. You're assuming that small time traders want to remain small indefinately, which I don't think is the case, different trading patterns might emerge and not always in favour of the megecorps (or wealthy individuals). There are some items best suited to smaller traders as there are for the megacorps. As I've argued, as long as the buy and sell orders can only be executed in Regions or Systems then even megacorps will have to risk climbing in to Indy's and making the treck across space which opens up opportunities for pirates and corporate trade wars alike "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
Falhofnir	Posted - 2004.01.21 16:30:00 - [52] Quote: It's pain to avoid griefers who does like import things from one region to another region and put things at top price. that thing you call griefing i call it trading.
Saladin	Posted - 2004.01.21 17:49:00 - [53] Ok this could work if and only if: 1. Highway Jumpgates are tolled 2. A skill need be trained, for the sake of argument lets call it 'Trade Connections'. 3. The skill mentioned in (2) lets you hire one 'NPC broker' per level. Each broker is a specialist and only checks the price in his region for a single product. The broker will require some kind of brokerage fee if you decide to purchase/sell that product in his region, and in return he will give you demand/supply information for that product in that region. --------------------------- (c) Copyright Saladin, 2005. Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003.
Ishkur	Posted - 2004.01.21 19:20:00 - [54] Hmm. I don't think people are doing a very good job explaining why this is the end of the world. How does it "kill" the trader profession? Seriously. Do you have any clue how a market works? All you all do is log on with alts anyway (don't lie to me) to find out the prices. I do it all the time. If you station them in good places, you can find prices on many regions in a short amount of time. But you do it by logging on as alts? How is that a good gameplay function? It isn't. So get rid of it. We can already "see" a (basically) global market. We have a global trade channel. We have a global escrow. So if you can explain clearly how exactly this will "kill" your profession, then please do. My guess is that people who don't like logging out and loggin in with alts will be able to compete with you, which is what really frightens you.
John Blackthrone	Posted - 2004.01.21 20:06:00 - [55] the loading times for the advanced inormation table would be much to high I dont want to w8 10mins for only viewing the prices....
Machiavelli7	Posted - 2004.01.21 21:04:00 - [56] As a trader i've found the regional element key to making good profits. My feelings are that with the global highway system, globalising the market would be a bad idea. Unfortunately too many ppl will jump 20+ jumps to save their ISK. As a manufacturer of an item i sell all over the place - seeing the quantities that go through suggests this. As a solo manufacturer I spend all my time gathering the minerals, producing the item, and then shipping the items to stations: this takes a helluva lot of effort and i should be rewarded fairly for this. If globalising the market adds a downward pressure on prices it just wouldn't be worth my while... _________________________________
Burga Galti	Posted - 2004.01.21 21:49:00 - [57] I've been trading in Mexallon (not glamorous but it's money) for several weeks now. Most of this has been in a single Region and I'm quite happy to travel 10 jumps for more profit. On first glance this kind of trading could benefit from a galaxy wide price search as I could do the same for the rarer ores and minerals as i do for mex. However, imagine the situation where a miner sees the ore he/she just mined being sold in higher quantities at a lower price 3 regions away. That miner might sell their ore for less money in an effort to move it. That has the potential to kill trans-regional trading. Oh, and for the comment about the price spiralling downwards may I point out that EVE is not an entirely capatalist society. Just my tupence worth.
Mrissa Easeah	Posted - 2004.01.21 22:07:00 - [58] Don't globalize it - bad idea. As to the concept of instantaneous pan-Eve communications, yes, it would be possible, but the entities empires of eve aren't part of the same government. Reasons they would arbitrarily limit market info would be to stimulate local speculative trade and keep certain worlds/stations, etc., from being overlooked. Probably they'd limit market info on grand scales to stablize their local economies and stock markets, or insulate them somewhat from drastic changes in neighboring regions. No empire, at least none of the big ones, necessarily wants to put all its eggs in the same basket, much less in the same basket everyone else is using. The Gallente would limit trade communications to make localized competition. The Amarr would limit it to keep from being influenced by 'barbarian' outside markets, the Minmatar would limit it to promote robust independence in their member worlds, and the Caldari would limit trade communications so the Gallente don't steal their shorts and sell them back to them, wholesale.
Drutort	Posted - 2004.01.22 01:11:00 - [59] I dont know if anyone has said this idea, but why not make markets be by faction/standing? make it so that you can see your races/faction and the alliance ones, it doesnÆt make sense to me that you can access all the info of the enemies at least they would not want you to and restrict it... maybe make it read only, but you have to be in that region area to place sell/buy orders that might be better since you would have to travel still, its just that you can see but you cant sell or buy from were you see or make it, that you can see based on your standing/faction? All positive you can see and place sell/buy orders on negative faction/standing you cant see it even, just a thought support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Cuthbert	Posted - 2004.01.22 04:25:00 - [60] I'm a bit of a n00b at this game, but one look at the market made me totally put all thought of becoming a trader firmly out of my head. The way it is currently set up, it is almost impossible, certainly for newbies, to see how to make a profit. Almost everything you see is apparantly being sold for far more than it is being bought, so, unless you happen to already know of something you can ship, say, from Amarr space to Gallente space to make a profit, you simply don't take the risk. What I would say would be the best thing to do would be to introduce globally viewable markets, but get rid of remote buying. Make it you have to be in the station the goods are in to buy them. This will ensure that players of all levels can become traders, but the already established high-level rich players do not get a monopoly going.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.