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Heat - Did we really want/need it?

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Veng3ance Illicit Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:55:00 - [31] Honestly, with the ENORMOUS ammount of problems this game has. It's **en amazing they spent so much time on such a worthless feature. Comon CCP, stop wasting your resources on this **!
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:55:00 - [32] The idea is good, the implementation is mediocre. overall it makes PVP more dynamic so its a good addition. I just wish it was slightly more heat and damage oriented, modules and options to compensate for over heating. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain The idea is good, the implementation is mediocre. overall it makes PVP more dynamic so its a good addition. I just wish it was slightly more heat and damage oriented, modules and options to compensate for over heating. Reads to me like the first step of a larger initiative, to be honest. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Fistme	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:05:00 - [34] I think it is a good concept however I really don't like the Implementation. Modules overheat far too quickly making it so you can only get a few decent cycles out of your guns ect. Another problem as is the trend in the past year is that the defensive bonus granted by overheating reppers and boosters far exceeds the offensive bonus granted by overheating guns (sounds like rigs all over again). Please CCP, some people enjoy small scale pvp and unbreakable 1v1 tanks does not exactly help in that genre(off topic sorry). Ideally I think the system should be revamped. Get rid of this bull**** slot based heat and have one heat level for the entire ship (Mech Warrior style). Overheat just your guns and you may be able to get more than just a few cycles out of them, Overheat everything and things start breaking/turning off quickly.
Gabriel Blade	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:09:00 - [35] Edited by: Gabriel Blade on 29/06/2007 14:09:29 I would agree that heat didn't seem like it was the best use of the developers time. A) I'm completely unexcited about the idea of using it B) It clutters the UI. The two things the devs could do that would excite me the most are 1) Revamp the UI (customizable interfaces would rock). 2) Eliminate lag in large battles (yes this is hard, but this is Eve's biggest issue IMO).
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:15:00 - [36] I like it, use it, and feel that its low key enough to not be a game breaker but useful enough that its nice to have it.
Kindakrof Caldari Cruor Frater Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 29/06/2007 11:59:53 No we didn't need it imo. It's just pointless and no one asked for it. If CCP likes to use 'tink tanks' then they should hire somepeople who actually think. I'm also grumpy about some of the new concept art. Everything looks the same. edit : Instead of heat, they could have fixed the flashing buttons like we have asked them to 10000000 times. Concept art?? WHEAR!!??? --- --- ---
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:29:00 - [38] Wait until Tech 3, that is where heat will shine.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:43:00 - [39] TBH, while heat was at least a moderately cool idea on paper, I really dislike it. Why? To begin with, it clutters up your UI, causing the modules to take up a ridiculous amount of space. Secondly, it makes it harder to tell whether or not the modules are active. Mostly, however, it was used as the justification for the second hitpoint increase (i.e. "we need to do this so we can implement heat in Rev II"). As the hitpoint increase is one of the things that has mostly killed solo and small gang PvP, you could say I am vehemently against it. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Useless alt	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:46:00 - [40] - Hate the UI clutter. - Like the general idea - Dislike the implementation (looking forward to future improvments and T3 modules/ships) - Think that dev time was spent right. Comment on that last one, there is only so many people that can work on and fix issues. There is ony so many people that can build new things. For EVE to move forward and evolve to new tech levels new things need to be build. I doubt any one in their right mind would want see a T3 ship with 99% resists across the board. The introduction of heat give the devs the option to make new T3 ships that are pretty much like T1 thips but with better heat handeling and then T4 well you guessed it... People who say CCP should have had a massive bug fixing session and fixed all lag related issues in big fights have clearly not enough knowledge about how complext these things are. Keep i mind that EVE is the biggest virtual world in existance, one of the very few where you can have massive battles between hundreds of payers and thus requires a lot more then your average developer give you. CCP's best and brightest are working on this and are doing a good job as far as I can tell. Somethings are just not that timple. It is like the following story: Customer calls his ISP complaining about the ISP's mail server being down and claiming that the ISP sucks because his mail server is up 99.99% of the time and the ISP's only gets to about 99.7% The difference is about 5.4 million users and several terabytes of data a day. Of course on a small scale things are easy to get right and nearly anyone can do a good job, but things change when the size of the systems increase. EVE is no different, it is relatively simple to prevent nearly all lag on a single shard with 10k players. But when there is no shard but just a single world with 200k players things start getting a lot harder. When you run on that single shard one of the most complex games in existance today things move to a whole new level. CCP are a company that has build this game and keep on developing this game because they love doing it and because they like what it has become. Unlike certain other corporations in this world EVE is not just an other money making scheme this game was build to be the most advanced and involving game out there. Imho it is. I am sure that if CCP saw other ways to improve the game they would have done it. If adding more developers to the optimizations team would have improved things CCP will/would have done thins. These guys and girls love the game at least as much as we all do they would not want to ruin it. If CCP cared only about the money they make they would have made EVE a sharded game as that is simpler to maintain and most likely cheaper as well. (Why else would WoW be sharded, that is a prime example of a money drive game as apposed to EVE) CCP are no saints and they do like their incomes I am sure but they will not just for the sake of money or out of lazyness mess up EVE so please stop with your unfounded complaints and whines.
fuze	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:50:00 - [41] 1. first draft of CCP almost always fails to deliver 2. whinage about any change always occurs 3. fixing always results in nerfage 4. whinage about any change always occurs 5. profit
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:56:00 - [42] I'm kind of surprised at some of the people who are actually posting that the heat things are: Cluttering the UI, Hard to see (1280x960 windowed here), "Cartoony" (first post), Completely worthless and adds nothing to the game. Cluttering the UI - I can see no significant increase in the amount of space the mods take up on the screen now as compared to before. All that was added was a color bar to the top of the mod and a tiny space that you click for overheating the mod (along with the 3 rack overheat buttons that are tiny as well). Then there is that heat bar in the center of the UI that I personally rarely look at. Hard to see - I have had no trouble seeing what mods are offline or online since the patch. All you have to do is just...look at the mods. Then again I hear on different resolutions this isn't possible. I think it would be kind of weird if on my resolution it shows as a clearly visible green and on a different resolution it doesn't show as green. Cartoony - How so? Worthless - It has been stated that heat is probably going to be the path T3 things go instead of making them uber stat ***** type of ships. If you don't want T3 mods/ships in the game then I guess you never need them. Note - people who develop content do not fix bugs so fixing bugs isn't going to be done by those people. --- Put in space whales!
sharkyballs Amarr Dkiller Delta Force Corp. Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:58:00 - [43] i think the concept is pretty cool. the thing i think i crazy is the time sink involved to train up enery management to 5. for most people 16 to 20 days for a little more cap is something that needs to be done when you go on vacation for 2 weeks and can't think of anything better to train while your gone.
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:22:00 - [44] heat would see more use if there were rats or weapons in general that could overheat your modules even if you are not overloading them. likewise there could be "cooling" systems to combat such effects and also allow someone to overload their modules longer. i also think that hull-reppers should also repair broken modules... ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Didn't need it, won't use it, and do not like the new the module buttons. My position exactly. Although the other day I was waiting for a guy on gate and he popped in at 27km from gate. Kinda wished I could've overheated my 24k scram but, you know... energy management 5 and all. ----------
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:25:00 - [46] waste of coding IMO, I just don't see it as something we needed really. Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:30:00 - [47] Heat is interesting, but at this point seems to be the result of time which could have been better spent. My real problem is with the UI buttons. Since space is so bright and cloudy, often I cannot readily see whether my modules are active or not. I wish/hope this gets changed. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
The Gate	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:49:00 - [48] I don't like heat at all, however we are stuck with it. So it needs some improvements. Would be alot easier for example if i could just overload 1 module at a time rather than an entire rack for example. Needs to be clearer which modules are online, and needs to be clearer just how much damage is being done by heat. It is very difficult imo to see how much damage is being done atm by a small gauge.
Shozo Pay Now inc	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:57:00 - [49] I don't know about the rest of you but, I don't think heat was for the "oh ****" button. It was definitely for the fact we're all in deep space freezing our asses off in those pods. Pump up the heat a little and you get a little warmer. Doesn't make sitting in that cloaked Recon half bad. --
Chaos Incarnate	Posted - 2007.06.29 16:58:00 - [50] Its most likely pre-nerfed so as to not insanely imbalance TQ, which would probably force them to make kneejerk changes and cause large bucketfuls of QQ. I'm probably expecting the skill requirements to be lowered and some of the values boosted.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:15:00 - [51] Originally by: The Gate I don't like heat at all, however we are stuck with it. So it needs some improvements. Would be alot easier for example if i could just overload 1 module at a time rather than an entire rack for example. Needs to be clearer which modules are online, and needs to be clearer just how much damage is being done by heat. It is very difficult imo to see how much damage is being done atm by a small gauge. you see that little green bar over the module? click it or right click a module overhaetig the rack is a BAD way of using heat. and will doom you to lossing modules. however doubl click the green bar above the module will not only turn it on but turn it off. giving you one whole cyvle of faster speed or rof or tanking. without taking much if any dmg ----------------------------------- remember this name devs Jaron D someday I'll be the head of your art department! or at least hold the position of coffee/animation intern guy sign
J Ripper Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Veng3ance Honestly, with the ENORMOUS ammount of problems this game has. It's **en amazing they spent so much time on such a worthless feature. Comon CCP, stop wasting your resources on this ! /SIGNED** my sig: --- Jon Johansen ---
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:47:00 - [53] I cannot stand Heat tbh. Just the interface alone is devastating, resulting in me never knowing for certain whether the module is online, or having to reposition my view to help me determine this based on the background lighting. I want to be able to check out all those deadspace structures and rats, not just point my ship view to a sun, and use the overview for everything. Hell, if I have to do this whenever I fly combat, one has to wonder why we don't just play text based, like Hobowars. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:04:00 - [54] Ok, i was hoping we would go away from the "better used resources" thing, but here's the deal. People think that things work like this: 100% work efficiency(all workers. Put this into fixing bugs instead of making new content. Tada! Bugs fixed. When infact it works more like this: 20% people who can fix drone bugs. 20% of people making new content who know nothing about the drones. 20% on working some other bugs. 20% of people who are owrking on internal issues in the company. etc etc etc. It's not a pie you can distribute around willy nilly. If the people who coded/graphed/designed heat, wouldn't have been doing that, the bugs in the game wouldn't have been fixed any faster. So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Kodiak31415 An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:09:00 - [55] This is exactly the sutff we don't need, more code to make eve even more bloated and another usless feature that one a few people will ever use in it's current state. Why don't you guys do something useful, like fixing drones ADD or the interface, de-bloat the client, fix black screen undocks, or possibly rewrite some of your netcode so that you can auctually play the game on weekends again? _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:38:00 - [56] I wanted MEAT =( - Recruitment open again-
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:47:00 - [57] I was thinking no we did'nt need it and I could'nt really think of a good use for it, then I thought about it some more and relaised if I had overheated my dam mwd last night I would;nt have lost my taranis :(, well possibly not. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Rafein	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:57:00 - [58] A lot of people were really looking forward to it, but yeah, implementation is kinda bleh. Would be nice if a few more skills came out with it, like a mechanic skill that boosts a mods Hp, a skill to increase the overheating bonus. The ability to overheat non-modules, like base speed, or non-activated modules, like weapon upgrades would be nice. As would a few modules, like a coolant mod, or a module repper could be added. Still, I think heat is a good addition. It adds a bit more player skill to the game, where players can manage heat for added bonuses that can turn the tide in a battle. And anything that gives the player at the keyboard more options than f1,f2, f3, ect, is a good thing. Implementation is not what i thought it would be, but I'm glad we have it, and looking forward to it expanding in the future.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Le Bon OK! Im creating this thread for general discussion, i have not used heat nor do i see much of a point but let me give a little overview. I can see only two reasons when you would really want or need to use heat. 1) if you know your going to die. 2) it can stop you from dieing. Which to tell you the truth, i dont want to train the skill for that. The AI has gone "cartoony" and tbh.. do we really want/need it as a community? In my opinion its the worst thing they've implemented for a long, long time. (This is not a whine thread, discuss it ^^) So you dont want to train a skill that helps keep you a live? Why train ANY skill then. If you dont want to train it... dont train it. All the better for us then... But maybe that is your real point, you don't want to train it, so it should not be in the game?
Parallax Error Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:20:00 - [60] Disclaimer: I haven't used heat yet on TQ, only on Sisi so things might have changed. Heat is a reasonable idea, I agree that the UI surrounding it could use some tweaking to improve functionality. My main complaint is that it seems to have been pre-nerfed heavily to the point of uselessness for most occasions. When I first read about heat it seemed to be some kind of tweaking that you could change on the fly as the situation dictated. Something that a clever, and on the ball pilot could use to their advantage. Unfortunately in it's current state, it seems to be an absolute last ditch measure. My main concerns are that modules start taking damage far too early, well before you get to 100% heat meaning that you can't really rely on overheating a module for any length of time. And secondly the heat levels have been split out between the power racks, high, medium and low. That seems to have taken a lot of the potential for "balancing between systems" out of the equation, I was hoping for some system where you could choose to overload your tank at the expense of being able to overload your guns etc. Maybe it will all make sense when the plan for tech 3 is implemented, but as it stands heat just seems like something of a missed opportunity to me.

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