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Heat - Did we really want/need it?

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Le Bon Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:52:00 - [1] OK! Im creating this thread for general discussion, i have not used heat nor do i see much of a point but let me give a little overview. I can see only two reasons when you would really want or need to use heat. 1) if you know your going to die. 2) it can stop you from dieing. Which to tell you the truth, i dont want to train the skill for that. The AI has gone "cartoony" and tbh.. do we really want/need it as a community? In my opinion its the worst thing they've implemented for a long, long time. (This is not a whine thread, discuss it ^^)
Xtreem Gallente CyberDyne.	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:55:00 - [2] well i dont like the new buttons for it, looks like a wow interface, my prefered the old style. plus heat is only going to be usefull in the 2 instances u mentioned, and maybe for carriers in there triage mode to overload sheild rechargers for repping a pos asap. it might tide a battle for a few minutes, but then the module dies and you lose all rep power, not to mention the other player could just use heat on his weapons to put you right back in that losing situation. but im sure one people will like it for some reason or another.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:58:00 - [3] Didn't need it, won't use it, and do not like the new the module buttons. RISE Recruitment Thread
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:00:00 - [4] Heat is great when you figure out how it works. Still a great deal of tweaking needed though. We're sorry, something happened.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:00:00 - [5] Edited by: Death Kill on 29/06/2007 11:59:53 No we didn't need it imo. It's just pointless and no one asked for it. If CCP likes to use 'tink tanks' then they should hire somepeople who actually think. I'm also grumpy about some of the new concept art. Everything looks the same. edit : Instead of heat, they could have fixed the flashing buttons like we have asked them to 10000000 times.
Le Bon Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Heat is great when you figure out how it works. Still a great deal of tweaking needed though. I understand you can get a few good cycles out of the mods without actually breaking them therefore making yourself X more effective in PVP or whatever. But really, its not wanted or needed in general and the new UI is just plain horrible.
Ralara Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:07:00 - [7] I wont be using it fore the foreseeable future. It interrupts my training schedule and I have far more important things to train for than something that effectively kills my ship within seconds.
cheru Starlancers Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:07:00 - [8] Edited by: cheru on 29/06/2007 12:07:06 "Heat - Did we really want/need it?" No, there are many things I would be much more happy about to see them changed/new/fixed. Heat is more useful in solo or small scale engagements imo. Overheating the MWD to get out of web range is nice f.e.. To lose my own scram/web in the process makes it a "only use when about to die" thing tho. It would be used more if only the overheated module and not the whole rack would get damaged and if you could repair mods in space (0.0). ................................................. been there done that
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:09:00 - [9] Nah, not really :) but hey, nice try!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:10:00 - [10] saying it's not wanted/needed in the general view is a bit narrowminded as the anti-heat people are a part of forums, and the forums are only a miniscule part of the game populus. But, on to the point. If you take the whole silly discussion about "but they could've kicked this guy making heat out the door and hire another guy to fix drones!", then we get this: + Free feature. + Not forced to use. + No suberb advantage if you have it/don't have it. + Game balance is rather same. + Cool feature, and as understood, just in it's babyshoes. + More stuff ingame is never bad. No matter how you try to twist it. It's not. +New buttons might be better, but i like 'em allready. - Requirements make it a select group now using it(would take me better part of two weeks to learn, so have to wait). - New players, young players won't be seeing it in a while(contradictory to the popular belief, that level V skill is NOT that critical) - New buttons might be better. That's about it. So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:12:00 - [11] Whine whine whine. I got into a dominix web range for 2 miliseconds and the guy webbed, nossed and mwd to towards me. I dont have a web (shieldextender) and was doing 450 m/s he was doing 400 m/s. I was @ 8 km range and cap was dying fast. If i had heat @ that time, i would speed up to 675 m/s and..get away!! Finally something that puts the power in the players hands, not some unskilled lame ass i-win modules/ships pwning fulltime. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Kaizek Gallente Imperium Forces	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:12:00 - [12] Just because it wasnt needed doesnt mean the developers shouldnt have put it in. Obviously if you dont like it dont use it. While they should also be working on the lag issues and some of the other issues most of you folks have brought up does not mean that they shouldnt be adding new features to the game either. The heat function may or may not save your tuckus in the heat of battle but its a unique feature that as someone has posted earlier once you get the handle on it you may end up liking it. Then again you may not. The universe is kind of funny that way.
Le Bon Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:20:00 - [13] Of course of course, everything they implement in the past and future will have its admirers and haters. However, for the time it must of taken them to code and implement this feature into the game, i just believe that time could of been spent alot better into coding other things. You guys are right about change, if the game does not evolve it'll become a victim of evolution (heh).
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Le Bon I understand you can get a few good cycles out of the mods without actually breaking them therefore making yourself X more effective in PVP or whatever. But really, its not wanted or needed in general and the new UI is just plain horrible. I agree that the new UI isn't the greatest, the overload buttons should be bigger and instantly change colour when you disable them and not wait for the module cycle to end (I hate when you don't know if you disabled overload or not and click it one more time). Heat is definitely not aimed at large fleet battles, it simply isn't lagproof enough. It is great for small scale/solo PvP though. As for a few good cycles, you will get about 40 cycles out of a XL SB with skills if nothing else is overloaded in the midslot. However you can be glad if you get more than 3 out of a 1MN MWD before modules start going offline though. We're sorry, something happened.
Kairg Caldari BRADNETT	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:25:00 - [15] Heat is designed for saving your ship as a last resort. It is only useful in that situation and that's what it was designed for. So yes, heat works and has a purpose. _____________________________________________________
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:28:00 - [16] I think it's nice, more player skill is good. And it's preping for tech3 which is also good. But haven't logged on since patch yet, so not sure on exactly how bad the new UI is.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:31:00 - [17] Heat = poor excuse for not fixing bugs ... "we are giving you all those cool new features [nobody asked for or wanted] so it's to be expected that there are bugs" ;-) this is a free post provided to you by a member of the EVE community.
Le Bon Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:39:00 - [18] Imho implementing an option to turn off the heat buttons would be a good idea (Anyone has a feeling these new variables are causing the desyncs? ¼_¼)
Black Jumper Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Gariuys I think it's nice, more player skill is good. And it's preping for tech3 which is also good. But haven't logged on since patch yet, so not sure on exactly how bad the new UI is. I like it so much when people talk about hings they don't know. Just to say what they think you know. Juste like i do right now.
Roger Arko Geddonites	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:00:00 - [20] The new buttons are really-really bad. You hardly can see if the module active or not unless you keep your eyes focused on it for second(s), which is unacceptable in PvP.
IlluminatedOne Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Le Bon Imho implementing an option to turn off the heat buttons would be a good idea (Anyone has a feeling these new variables are causing the desyncs? ¼_¼) +1. On topic: we don't need it. Heat feature itself is an example of creeping featurism anti-pattern. I wonder if CCP lost any contact with realty (or they all gone fishing?...) -------------------------------------------------- Listen up! "Teamwork" means staying out of my way!
Black Jumper Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:02:00 - [22] CCP tries to increase it's client base so it increases the value of the company. With flashy useless things (my opinion).
IlluminatedOne Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:06:00 - [23] Edited by: IlluminatedOne on 29/06/2007 13:05:12 Originally by: Black Jumper CCP tries to increase it's client base so it increases the value of the company. Are they going to sell EVE? If yes, I wish it was Blizzard or EA. THAT'S the companies with ok customer support!... -------------------------------------------------- Listen up! "Teamwork" means staying out of my way!
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:11:00 - [24] Is this a case of "can't use it - don't like it"? I can use it and I like it, it's a little extra something for when I absolutely need to squeeze more power from a module. "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Le Bon Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:19:00 - [25] Nah its not a case of cant use it dont like it. The idea of having an extra "failsafe" just incase is a good one. My point of this thread was to get opinions from people who have used it to find there general opinion however my stance on the UI wont change :p
Saint Lazarus C R Y O FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:28:00 - [26] If you dont like it you dont have to use it so CCP defnitely shouldnt even consider taking it out now in any case. IT needs tweakin to be sure but I for one am looking forward to it (another 10 days before I can train it) Because so many people seem against it plus the long train time means its almost an elite thing, its gonna give me an edge in fights, 13k web, 22k scram, 50% boost to MWD and AB, 15% more armor rep per cycle. Even if for only 30 seconds thats enough to give me a big boost in a fight. Dont like heat dont use it, let teh people who do keep gettin the spiffy bonuses :D ------------------------------
Jon Draconus Imperial Munitions	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:37:00 - [27] Originally by: IlluminatedOne Edited by: IlluminatedOne on 29/06/2007 13:05:12 Originally by: Black Jumper CCP tries to increase it's client base so it increases the value of the company. Are they going to sell EVE? If yes, I wish it was Blizzard or EA. THAT'S the companies with ok customer support!... Blizzard? Not so good with the customer support there. You complain about something on there boards and get banned. Petions in game haven't been produvtive either. The one that made me leave was about the fact my lvl 60 got rolled back to a lower lvl. Still had the gear and gold, but at lvl 40. I was told it was a glitch and to suck it up. Screw Blizzard. Originally by: Wrangler - We will kill one minmatar baby, on the hour, every hour... and maybe an extra one if we get hungry! Ah, brings back memories of my family BBQ's.
Davos Breemer	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:37:00 - [28] I haven't skilled for it yet but I will. New features that introduce new skills is always good. As for the UI? Well, EVE's UI is horrible anyway. Would be nice if they implemented a player customizable UI.
Silverized 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:47:00 - [29] Heat might be a good thing when you get used to it. But the UI that came with it are BAD, so damn ugly and sluggish. Hope they change it back in next patch. ------------------------------
Lord Evangelian Gallente LEAP Corp United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:54:00 - [30] I find a common trend in these forums, the people who whine about things are the people who can't use/loose to/gelus of the feature/ship/or people who us them. I can see heat as a great advantage to the game. Adds something more that generic ship fits and skills you can in effect make you ship better at what it does for a short space of time if your loosing, whether it be better tank, better damage, better now, speed, tackle, jam...etc. You don't HAVE to use heat, its optional so i don't see how it effects the people who don't like it rather than them cutting there own arms and leggs off because they don't like a feature that can potentially give them an advantage.... [center]--------------------------------------------------- One day I'll show you...and then you will bow down...[/cen
Veng3ance Illicit Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:55:00 - [31] Honestly, with the ENORMOUS ammount of problems this game has. It's **en amazing they spent so much time on such a worthless feature. Comon CCP, stop wasting your resources on this **!
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:55:00 - [32] The idea is good, the implementation is mediocre. overall it makes PVP more dynamic so its a good addition. I just wish it was slightly more heat and damage oriented, modules and options to compensate for over heating. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain The idea is good, the implementation is mediocre. overall it makes PVP more dynamic so its a good addition. I just wish it was slightly more heat and damage oriented, modules and options to compensate for over heating. Reads to me like the first step of a larger initiative, to be honest. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Fistme	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:05:00 - [34] I think it is a good concept however I really don't like the Implementation. Modules overheat far too quickly making it so you can only get a few decent cycles out of your guns ect. Another problem as is the trend in the past year is that the defensive bonus granted by overheating reppers and boosters far exceeds the offensive bonus granted by overheating guns (sounds like rigs all over again). Please CCP, some people enjoy small scale pvp and unbreakable 1v1 tanks does not exactly help in that genre(off topic sorry). Ideally I think the system should be revamped. Get rid of this bull**** slot based heat and have one heat level for the entire ship (Mech Warrior style). Overheat just your guns and you may be able to get more than just a few cycles out of them, Overheat everything and things start breaking/turning off quickly.
Gabriel Blade	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:09:00 - [35] Edited by: Gabriel Blade on 29/06/2007 14:09:29 I would agree that heat didn't seem like it was the best use of the developers time. A) I'm completely unexcited about the idea of using it B) It clutters the UI. The two things the devs could do that would excite me the most are 1) Revamp the UI (customizable interfaces would rock). 2) Eliminate lag in large battles (yes this is hard, but this is Eve's biggest issue IMO).
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:15:00 - [36] I like it, use it, and feel that its low key enough to not be a game breaker but useful enough that its nice to have it.
Kindakrof Caldari Cruor Frater Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 29/06/2007 11:59:53 No we didn't need it imo. It's just pointless and no one asked for it. If CCP likes to use 'tink tanks' then they should hire somepeople who actually think. I'm also grumpy about some of the new concept art. Everything looks the same. edit : Instead of heat, they could have fixed the flashing buttons like we have asked them to 10000000 times. Concept art?? WHEAR!!??? --- --- ---
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:29:00 - [38] Wait until Tech 3, that is where heat will shine.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:43:00 - [39] TBH, while heat was at least a moderately cool idea on paper, I really dislike it. Why? To begin with, it clutters up your UI, causing the modules to take up a ridiculous amount of space. Secondly, it makes it harder to tell whether or not the modules are active. Mostly, however, it was used as the justification for the second hitpoint increase (i.e. "we need to do this so we can implement heat in Rev II"). As the hitpoint increase is one of the things that has mostly killed solo and small gang PvP, you could say I am vehemently against it. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Useless alt	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:46:00 - [40] - Hate the UI clutter. - Like the general idea - Dislike the implementation (looking forward to future improvments and T3 modules/ships) - Think that dev time was spent right. Comment on that last one, there is only so many people that can work on and fix issues. There is ony so many people that can build new things. For EVE to move forward and evolve to new tech levels new things need to be build. I doubt any one in their right mind would want see a T3 ship with 99% resists across the board. The introduction of heat give the devs the option to make new T3 ships that are pretty much like T1 thips but with better heat handeling and then T4 well you guessed it... People who say CCP should have had a massive bug fixing session and fixed all lag related issues in big fights have clearly not enough knowledge about how complext these things are. Keep i mind that EVE is the biggest virtual world in existance, one of the very few where you can have massive battles between hundreds of payers and thus requires a lot more then your average developer give you. CCP's best and brightest are working on this and are doing a good job as far as I can tell. Somethings are just not that timple. It is like the following story: Customer calls his ISP complaining about the ISP's mail server being down and claiming that the ISP sucks because his mail server is up 99.99% of the time and the ISP's only gets to about 99.7% The difference is about 5.4 million users and several terabytes of data a day. Of course on a small scale things are easy to get right and nearly anyone can do a good job, but things change when the size of the systems increase. EVE is no different, it is relatively simple to prevent nearly all lag on a single shard with 10k players. But when there is no shard but just a single world with 200k players things start getting a lot harder. When you run on that single shard one of the most complex games in existance today things move to a whole new level. CCP are a company that has build this game and keep on developing this game because they love doing it and because they like what it has become. Unlike certain other corporations in this world EVE is not just an other money making scheme this game was build to be the most advanced and involving game out there. Imho it is. I am sure that if CCP saw other ways to improve the game they would have done it. If adding more developers to the optimizations team would have improved things CCP will/would have done thins. These guys and girls love the game at least as much as we all do they would not want to ruin it. If CCP cared only about the money they make they would have made EVE a sharded game as that is simpler to maintain and most likely cheaper as well. (Why else would WoW be sharded, that is a prime example of a money drive game as apposed to EVE) CCP are no saints and they do like their incomes I am sure but they will not just for the sake of money or out of lazyness mess up EVE so please stop with your unfounded complaints and whines.
fuze	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:50:00 - [41] 1. first draft of CCP almost always fails to deliver 2. whinage about any change always occurs 3. fixing always results in nerfage 4. whinage about any change always occurs 5. profit
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:56:00 - [42] I'm kind of surprised at some of the people who are actually posting that the heat things are: Cluttering the UI, Hard to see (1280x960 windowed here), "Cartoony" (first post), Completely worthless and adds nothing to the game. Cluttering the UI - I can see no significant increase in the amount of space the mods take up on the screen now as compared to before. All that was added was a color bar to the top of the mod and a tiny space that you click for overheating the mod (along with the 3 rack overheat buttons that are tiny as well). Then there is that heat bar in the center of the UI that I personally rarely look at. Hard to see - I have had no trouble seeing what mods are offline or online since the patch. All you have to do is just...look at the mods. Then again I hear on different resolutions this isn't possible. I think it would be kind of weird if on my resolution it shows as a clearly visible green and on a different resolution it doesn't show as green. Cartoony - How so? Worthless - It has been stated that heat is probably going to be the path T3 things go instead of making them uber stat ***** type of ships. If you don't want T3 mods/ships in the game then I guess you never need them. Note - people who develop content do not fix bugs so fixing bugs isn't going to be done by those people. --- Put in space whales!
sharkyballs Amarr Dkiller Delta Force Corp. Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:58:00 - [43] i think the concept is pretty cool. the thing i think i crazy is the time sink involved to train up enery management to 5. for most people 16 to 20 days for a little more cap is something that needs to be done when you go on vacation for 2 weeks and can't think of anything better to train while your gone.
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:22:00 - [44] heat would see more use if there were rats or weapons in general that could overheat your modules even if you are not overloading them. likewise there could be "cooling" systems to combat such effects and also allow someone to overload their modules longer. i also think that hull-reppers should also repair broken modules... ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Didn't need it, won't use it, and do not like the new the module buttons. My position exactly. Although the other day I was waiting for a guy on gate and he popped in at 27km from gate. Kinda wished I could've overheated my 24k scram but, you know... energy management 5 and all. ----------
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:25:00 - [46] waste of coding IMO, I just don't see it as something we needed really. Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:30:00 - [47] Heat is interesting, but at this point seems to be the result of time which could have been better spent. My real problem is with the UI buttons. Since space is so bright and cloudy, often I cannot readily see whether my modules are active or not. I wish/hope this gets changed. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
The Gate	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:49:00 - [48] I don't like heat at all, however we are stuck with it. So it needs some improvements. Would be alot easier for example if i could just overload 1 module at a time rather than an entire rack for example. Needs to be clearer which modules are online, and needs to be clearer just how much damage is being done by heat. It is very difficult imo to see how much damage is being done atm by a small gauge.
Shozo Pay Now inc	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:57:00 - [49] I don't know about the rest of you but, I don't think heat was for the "oh ****" button. It was definitely for the fact we're all in deep space freezing our asses off in those pods. Pump up the heat a little and you get a little warmer. Doesn't make sitting in that cloaked Recon half bad. --
Chaos Incarnate	Posted - 2007.06.29 16:58:00 - [50] Its most likely pre-nerfed so as to not insanely imbalance TQ, which would probably force them to make kneejerk changes and cause large bucketfuls of QQ. I'm probably expecting the skill requirements to be lowered and some of the values boosted.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:15:00 - [51] Originally by: The Gate I don't like heat at all, however we are stuck with it. So it needs some improvements. Would be alot easier for example if i could just overload 1 module at a time rather than an entire rack for example. Needs to be clearer which modules are online, and needs to be clearer just how much damage is being done by heat. It is very difficult imo to see how much damage is being done atm by a small gauge. you see that little green bar over the module? click it or right click a module overhaetig the rack is a BAD way of using heat. and will doom you to lossing modules. however doubl click the green bar above the module will not only turn it on but turn it off. giving you one whole cyvle of faster speed or rof or tanking. without taking much if any dmg ----------------------------------- remember this name devs Jaron D someday I'll be the head of your art department! or at least hold the position of coffee/animation intern guy sign
J Ripper Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Veng3ance Honestly, with the ENORMOUS ammount of problems this game has. It's **en amazing they spent so much time on such a worthless feature. Comon CCP, stop wasting your resources on this ! /SIGNED** my sig: --- Jon Johansen ---
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:47:00 - [53] I cannot stand Heat tbh. Just the interface alone is devastating, resulting in me never knowing for certain whether the module is online, or having to reposition my view to help me determine this based on the background lighting. I want to be able to check out all those deadspace structures and rats, not just point my ship view to a sun, and use the overview for everything. Hell, if I have to do this whenever I fly combat, one has to wonder why we don't just play text based, like Hobowars. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:04:00 - [54] Ok, i was hoping we would go away from the "better used resources" thing, but here's the deal. People think that things work like this: 100% work efficiency(all workers. Put this into fixing bugs instead of making new content. Tada! Bugs fixed. When infact it works more like this: 20% people who can fix drone bugs. 20% of people making new content who know nothing about the drones. 20% on working some other bugs. 20% of people who are owrking on internal issues in the company. etc etc etc. It's not a pie you can distribute around willy nilly. If the people who coded/graphed/designed heat, wouldn't have been doing that, the bugs in the game wouldn't have been fixed any faster. So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Kodiak31415 An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:09:00 - [55] This is exactly the sutff we don't need, more code to make eve even more bloated and another usless feature that one a few people will ever use in it's current state. Why don't you guys do something useful, like fixing drones ADD or the interface, de-bloat the client, fix black screen undocks, or possibly rewrite some of your netcode so that you can auctually play the game on weekends again? _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:38:00 - [56] I wanted MEAT =( - Recruitment open again-
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:47:00 - [57] I was thinking no we did'nt need it and I could'nt really think of a good use for it, then I thought about it some more and relaised if I had overheated my dam mwd last night I would;nt have lost my taranis :(, well possibly not. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Rafein	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:57:00 - [58] A lot of people were really looking forward to it, but yeah, implementation is kinda bleh. Would be nice if a few more skills came out with it, like a mechanic skill that boosts a mods Hp, a skill to increase the overheating bonus. The ability to overheat non-modules, like base speed, or non-activated modules, like weapon upgrades would be nice. As would a few modules, like a coolant mod, or a module repper could be added. Still, I think heat is a good addition. It adds a bit more player skill to the game, where players can manage heat for added bonuses that can turn the tide in a battle. And anything that gives the player at the keyboard more options than f1,f2, f3, ect, is a good thing. Implementation is not what i thought it would be, but I'm glad we have it, and looking forward to it expanding in the future.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Le Bon OK! Im creating this thread for general discussion, i have not used heat nor do i see much of a point but let me give a little overview. I can see only two reasons when you would really want or need to use heat. 1) if you know your going to die. 2) it can stop you from dieing. Which to tell you the truth, i dont want to train the skill for that. The AI has gone "cartoony" and tbh.. do we really want/need it as a community? In my opinion its the worst thing they've implemented for a long, long time. (This is not a whine thread, discuss it ^^) So you dont want to train a skill that helps keep you a live? Why train ANY skill then. If you dont want to train it... dont train it. All the better for us then... But maybe that is your real point, you don't want to train it, so it should not be in the game?
Parallax Error Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:20:00 - [60] Disclaimer: I haven't used heat yet on TQ, only on Sisi so things might have changed. Heat is a reasonable idea, I agree that the UI surrounding it could use some tweaking to improve functionality. My main complaint is that it seems to have been pre-nerfed heavily to the point of uselessness for most occasions. When I first read about heat it seemed to be some kind of tweaking that you could change on the fly as the situation dictated. Something that a clever, and on the ball pilot could use to their advantage. Unfortunately in it's current state, it seems to be an absolute last ditch measure. My main concerns are that modules start taking damage far too early, well before you get to 100% heat meaning that you can't really rely on overheating a module for any length of time. And secondly the heat levels have been split out between the power racks, high, medium and low. That seems to have taken a lot of the potential for "balancing between systems" out of the equation, I was hoping for some system where you could choose to overload your tank at the expense of being able to overload your guns etc. Maybe it will all make sense when the plan for tech 3 is implemented, but as it stands heat just seems like something of a missed opportunity to me.
Saori Rei Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:22:00 - [61] As good as this game is, it requires significant repair and fixes. As such heat is not only a waste of time, but also a makes a laggy client even worse to deal with. I think CCP made a poor decision introducing heat which I bet is client calculation intensive, when things like drone AI, logofski and other things REALLY need a look at. Simply: Waste of time to train AND to have introduced in the first place.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:27:00 - [62] Heat is awesome! I will be training it asap! Then take the rifter out and jump something ludicrous just to see if I can make it or...win. Most likely I will die, but that seems to be a habit with me in this game...dieing. That way though, I can learn how effective it really is. _______________________________________________ It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers s
Tek'a Rain Gallente Isis Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.29 20:06:00 - [63] I rather liked the Original descriptions and concepts for Heat function that Devs were throwing around early on. the Thing that seems to have reached TQ is like its de-evolved mario-bros-the-movie slime-mold brother. on top of that, the interfae just seems cludgy, unfinished. but, heres hoping that tweaking and some polish will turn this lump into a diamond. or at least shiny glass.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.06.29 20:41:00 - [64] I like it. I would like it more if the interface were made a little easier to read. I didn't lobby for Heat, nor would I have been disappointed if they'd put it off in favor of other things, but now that it's here it's made the game more interesting for me. Some people have mentioned that they hate it and wish they could turn it off. You can't change the UI at this point, but you can lock your modules so that you don't overload them accidentally. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
J Ripper Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.29 20:48:00 - [65] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Ok, i was hoping we would go away from the "better used resources" thing, but here's the deal. People think that things work like this: 100% work efficiency(all workers. Put this into fixing bugs instead of making new content. Tada! Bugs fixed. When infact it works more like this: 20% people who can fix drone bugs. 20% of people making new content who know nothing about the drones. 20% on working some other bugs. 20% of people who are owrking on internal issues in the company. etc etc etc. It's not a pie you can distribute around willy nilly. If the people who coded/graphed/designed heat, wouldn't have been doing that, the bugs in the game wouldn't have been fixed any faster. Thats simple then, fire the 20% working on new content and hire 20% more to work on game fixes ! A working game is better than a fully contented buggy game! my sig: --- Jon Johansen ---
Guilliman R Gallente PRO Space Hunters Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.06.29 20:50:00 - [66] I'm pretty sure heat has been in development for a long time. Do we need it? No, do we need other features? No Do we want new things? Ofcourse! It's just new stuff you pay for. And more is sure to come. sig needs colour, cookie to mod who adds something!
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.06.29 21:42:00 - [67] Originally by: Saori Rei which I bet is client calculation intensive You bet.. or you KNOW?
Dant Kramble	Posted - 2007.06.29 21:48:00 - [68] For the pretty-much uninformed... In what way is Heat not just like having everybody's gear "go up to eleven", so to speak?
Saori Rei Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.06.29 21:55:00 - [69] Originally by: MasterEnt Originally by: Saori Rei which I bet is client calculation intensive You bet.. or you KNOW? Call it an educated guess. Since alot of calculations are client based its not unrealistic to assume that heat calculations are client based too. So in the end all the extra calculations due to heat only adds more lag to the client. Ofcourse I could be utterly wrong regarding this.
Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2007.06.29 22:05:00 - [70] I'm tired of squinting my eyes to see if a module is active or not.
Sgt Blade Dark Entropy	Posted - 2007.06.29 23:07:00 - [71] errm just to be different.... i like heat and i would ahve asked for it if i thought of it before its great for those tight situations so anyone who dosnt like it DONT post "WE didnt ask for it" cause WE ALL didnt say that only some. Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.06.29 23:18:00 - [72] Originally by: Dant Kramble For the pretty-much uninformed... In what way is Heat not just like having everybody's gear "go up to eleven", so to speak? I'm not 100% sure I understand the question, but I'm guessing your asking what the point is if everybody with the prereq skills can use it. The effects vary depending on your setup. And you can only do it for a short time (unrepaired) before catastrophic side effects catch up with you. So it takes judgment to use, and thus some players will learn to use it more effectively than others. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Cyberstrike2027 Gallente Galactic Savings and Investments	Posted - 2007.06.29 23:25:00 - [73] I find it way too hard/fiddly/time consuming to activate it, and it builds up heat too bloody quickly. So, from me, not only is it a poor concept for the speed of this game (slow), but it is also very poorly implemented. It is certainly one of the worst ideas that no one seemed to ask for that was implemented for a long time, possibly since release. And what's more, it REQUIRES skills! And not a quick rank 1 skill either! Surely any dumbass could make a module run over-capacity, the skills should be optional to maximise what happens (bonus is bigger, amount of heat per cycle is reduced, amount of heat racks can handle is increased etc etc), but not to just perform a basic overload. Personally, whoever came up with the mechanics behind "each rack of high/med/low gets heated" "all modules get damaged" etc should be demoted to tea boy. Damage modules!? Hell no, I want them to overheat for X seconds before I can use them again, not full on destroy themselves! This idea could have been implemented far far better than it has been, and thus would be used a lot more. Scenario: A cruiser is tackled by a small raiding party of frigates, scrammed etc. He overloads his AB/MWD to get away from the scrammer (not likely, but for demo purposes...), he overloads his shield booster for the pummeling he's getting, and he overloads his weapons to improve tracking (faster turning motors etc) to hit the buggers. After 30 seconds, his AB gives up on him, and he's left still scrammed with no means of escape. His shield booster is proving steadfast in all this, keeping the shells from impacting his ship. A couple of his weapons overheat from overload, but others continue. A few seconds later, his AB kicks in again, but his shield booster has now given out. His guns come back online and furiously assault the scramming frig. His AB gives out again, but the scramming frig has been destroyed, allowing his escape, battered but ship intact. At the moment, it would be, he overloads his AB + shield booster, after 10 seconds both are destroyed, leaving him defenceless and slow. He overloads his weapons to attack the scramming ship, which then sh*t themselves after 10 seconds leaving him at the mercy of the attackers. HEAT NEEDS A TOTAL RETHINK!!! ----------------------- Gallente Titan - http://www.eve-files.com/media/12/eve_chart-rmr.jpg
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2007.06.29 23:42:00 - [74] By the time I go and hit the overheat buttons, I'm almost certainly dead anyway. But it certainly won't hurt to be able to kick and scream some more before I go down. I'm getting used to the look of the buttons now, but the could do with being 75% of the current size IMO.
Cyberstrike2027 Gallente Galactic Savings and Investments	Posted - 2007.06.29 23:44:00 - [75] Originally by: Fink Angel By the time I go and hit the overheat buttons, I'm almost certainly dead anyway. QFT! Too damn fiddely! ----------------------- Gallente Titan - http://www.eve-files.com/media/12/eve_chart-rmr.jpg
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.30 00:01:00 - [76] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Joshua Foiritain The idea is good, the implementation is mediocre. overall it makes PVP more dynamic so its a good addition. I just wish it was slightly more heat and damage oriented, modules and options to compensate for over heating. Reads to me like the first step of a larger initiative, to be honest. I think CCP is going to build a lot of new features around heat. There's just too much interface space devoted to it for the role it currently plays in the game. If we assume that CCP isn't stupid in their resource allocation, heat will likely be a key feature in the game a year from now and we'll all laugh at people who said they'd never use it. Specifically, I think CCP will add some mechanism to heat a target vessel's modules, opening up a completely new class of counters and increasing the diversity of ship fits. (cough Nos cough) _____ Heat Warfare

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