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Inertia Stabs bad for Speed Tanking? Sig Radius Bonus

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Llerrad Gabemid Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.02 20:51:00 - [1] I'm a noob... if i got something terribly confused please forgive me... but the istabs say they give something like 5~10% sig radius bonus. Wouldn't this mean turrets have an easier time hitting you? The only reason i'd equip em on a speed tanker is so i can orbit even faster at 500m, but that sig bonus seems to undo that extra speed's edge, or at least counteract is somewhat. So are istabs for faster aligning only for like indies(why else would you want more agility at sig radius bonus? serious question), or am i just a dumb nublet?
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.02 21:11:00 - [2] No your right, Istabs are now just for mainly alligning faster (they allow you to speed up, slow down, and turn faster getting you into warp quicker) and they do this by lowering your inertial multiplier which does nothing for base speed. Nan0 structures reduce your mass which both has similar effects as the I-stab (but not as great and without the sig penalty) since mass and intertia are simply multiplied but also allows you to get a better boost from you MWD or AB which helps increase your boosted speed but NOT you base speed. If you want to boost you base speed you need a Overdrive injector which also gets multiplied by you MWD or AB so if your only concern is flat out fastest running speed in a straight line than an overdrive is your best bet. Why would you use an I-stab if it increases your sig to negate the speed bonus? Well if you want to orbit up close and personal your Transversal drastically dwarfs your sig radius' contribution to wether or not you get hit so in that particular case you can ignore the sig radius increase. If however you start far away and need to close alot of distance first that I-stab may spell your doom because it has almoast no effect on your ability to avoid fire at great distances (you dont make tight turns at 40km) where transversals contribution to your chance to get his is dwarfed by your sig radius. If your using I-stabs to orbit faster get someone else to find targets so that you can warp in at point blank to begin with. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
xenodia Gallente Shadowrun Company	Posted - 2007.07.02 21:36:00 - [3] orbiting at 500m really fast + web on hostile ship = suddenly orbiting much slower = death Forget trying to orbit really fast right off someones nose. if you are going to speed tank you need to be outside web range or whats the point.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.02 21:43:00 - [4] Increased sig radius is only bad against missiles and against guns that are a class larger than your ship. And if you're in a nanoship plus sized guns should NEVER be able to track you. If you're in a 125m sig radius cruiser and are being shot at by medium guns with a resolution of 125m, their chance to hit you based on sig radius is 100%. Increasing your sig radius does not make anything worse for you.
ArtemisEntreri Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.02 21:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Xequecal Increased sig radius is only bad against missiles and against guns that are a class larger than your ship. And if you're in a nanoship plus sized guns should NEVER be able to track you. If you're in a 125m sig radius cruiser and are being shot at by medium guns with a resolution of 125m, their chance to hit you based on sig radius is 100%. Increasing your sig radius does not make anything worse for you. False It doesn't nothing if youre standstill in optimal range, it does something if they're in orbit. It's easier to track a big target than a small one, less aiming.
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.02 22:04:00 - [6] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri False It doesn't nothing if youre standstill in optimal range, it does something if they're in orbit. It's easier to track a big target than a small one, less aiming. I cant do much but ask you what you base this on? The turret tracking guide is outdated and from what Ive heard there are no new official statements about how it work. What I do know is that sig radius no longer is a seperate chance from the tracking but a multiplier of it. Wich beats all logic. Another leap of logic is the fact that it calculates with absolute and not relative transversal. If you orbit something stationary, the guns wont have to move, right? Post count: 855995
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.02 23:22:00 - [7] Edited by: Hoshi on 02/07/2007 23:27:39 Originally by: NoNah Originally by: ArtemisEntreri False It doesn't nothing if youre standstill in optimal range, it does something if they're in orbit. It's easier to track a big target than a small one, less aiming. I cant do much but ask you what you base this on? The turret tracking guide is outdated and from what Ive heard there are no new official statements about how it work. What I do know is that sig radius no longer is a seperate chance from the tracking but a multiplier of it. Wich beats all logic. Another leap of logic is the fact that it calculates with absolute and not relative transversal. If you orbit something stationary, the guns wont have to move, right? The tracking guide is not outdated, it says exactly how it work if you read it all. On page 2 below the pictures: "Since signature comparison is multiplied with the tracking comparison (see the following page) one cannot easily explain in words how much the signature effects the chance to hit." And this is not something that have changed. It's been this way for as long as signature size have effected the hit chance. Btw the to hit forumla looks like this: Tracking Factor = (((Transversal speed / (Range * Tracking)) * (Signature resolution / Signature radius)) ^ 2) If Range > Optimal range Range Factor = (((Range - Optimal range) / Falloff)^2) else Range Factor = 0 Hit chance = 0.5^(Tracking Factor + Range Factor) Here you can easily see that unless the target is moving the signature ratio have no effect on hit chance. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:08:00 - [8] Edited by: Neuromandis on 03/07/2007 00:11:08 Originally by: NoNah Originally by: ArtemisEntreri False What I do know is that sig radius no longer is a seperate chance from the tracking but a multiplier of it. Wich beats all logic. Another leap of logic is the fact that it calculates with absolute and not relative transversal. If you orbit something stationary, the guns wont have to move, right? Indeed false. And, indeed, tracking and sig radius are part of the same calculation. BUT: the chance to hit based on sig/transversal is not like the chance from optimal (which is a static 100% for targets inside optimal and drops off due to falloff). It DOES NOT top off at trackingrange=transversal and sig radius=sig resolution. Far from it. In fact, when sig radius = sig resolution and transversal = trackingrange then chance to hit = 50% not 100%. It is some kind of logarithmic or somesuch i-don't-remember-what-kind-now function. I had the formula in my hands at some point and I'm cursing myself for not copy-pasting it somewhere safe... Also, keep in mind that the fact that they are part of the same calculation SUGGESTS that things don't stop when tracking and sig radius are "topped off"... In fact, the fact that there are always "freak hits" and "freak misses" when you would expect to always hit or always miss seem to further enforce that point. The tracking guide IS outdated because it doesn't take quality of hit and that stuff into consideration, and because it does not explain exactly that (it "suggests" that tracking is an on-off kind of thing). The actual tracking formula at the end of the guide seems to work fine, though. As far as absolute and relative transversal go, you are quite correct, it is completely counterintuitive. But if it wasn't that way, fast ships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else. You would have no defense whatsoever against the fast ships, they would rip you to shreds and you wouldn't hit a thing.


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