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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:10:00 -
[1]
notice the cap on Majesty
Check out rev2 trailer for example. there you see those huge caps going silently into space, behemoths of power
now go ingame, and bump a titan.
i mean its ingame and fine and all, but seeing a million cubic meters multibillion tons of inertia being bumped, tickled by a shuttle (or a corpse!) and giggling like a prom queen, that has no freaking majesty
taking into account a bit of the inertia would add a lot of the "space feeling"
just a random rant, no i didnt lose a cap from being bumped, and yes im the first to send kestrels(caldari ships can die !) against caps :p
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MellaRinn
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:21:00 -
[2]
QFT.
Despite the laws of weightless space and friction-less environment, the stabilizer engines of a titan would not only not allow it to be bumped by a shuttle, they would also obliterate it with even a tiniest jet of thrust ^_^
My Vids - Click |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:28:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: MellaRinn
QFT.
Despite the laws of weightless space...
[Nitpick] There are no laws of weightlessness in space (or anywhere). Yes anything is weightless in space (from you to a planet) but it is your mass that counts and a shuttle compared to a Titan is something on the order of a bug hitting your car's windshield. Does your car move from the impact? Technically yes but so minimally as to be for practical purposes zero. The perspective from the bug's point of view is of course quite different. [/nitpick]
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: MellaRinn
Despite the laws of weightless space and friction-less environment
I think there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest that Eve space is not empty.
1. Ships have a maximum speed.
2. Ships slow down
3. There is a cone of light visible on the ships with spotlights.
4. You can see the beam of light from the energy weapons.
I think we may be in some kind of fluidic space, except that only exists in poor science fiction soap operas.
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Sae Eha
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:42:00 -
[5]
Totally agreed, it's bad enough, when you leave a busy station like Jita 4-4 and you see 20 ships bouncing around like they're made of rubber, but it gets rather ridiculous when the same thing happens with capital ships.
I'm all for more realistic physics, where small ships get smashed into smithereens when they collide with a big one, wich only takes a small amount of damage! This would also beautifully sort out the Jita problem!  
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Sinthra Markhan
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:46:00 -
[6]
Did you guys play Elite 2?
It has realistic space flight and cpace combat. But that realistic space combat was one of the worst things you could do. Realism just isnt nice here. We are way better of with that pseudo-fluid-space-model.
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Sae Eha
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: MellaRinn
Despite the laws of weightless space and friction-less environment
I think there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest that Eve space is not empty.
1. Ships have a maximum speed.
2. Ships slow down
3. There is a cone of light visible on the ships with spotlights.
4. You can see the beam of light from the energy weapons.
I think we may be in some kind of fluidic space, except that only exists in poor science fiction soap operas.
So you're saying that Einstein is all wrong and Newton was right after all, there really is an aether?! Excuse me, I have a letter to write to someone called Hawking.
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Thom Daranta
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:48:00 -
[8]
I'm kinda new here, but it kinda makes sense that ships bounce off of each other like crazy if they are ricocheting off of one another's shields to avoid a nasty collision. You can say that they look like they are bouncing off of one another's hulls, but I'd sooner believe that it is due to shield harmonics and whatnot, which is why even capital ships apparently "bounce" off of tiny stuff-- it is really emergency thrusters keeping them from colliding with anything of any mass.
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Tajidan
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Thom Daranta
I'm kinda new here, but it kinda makes sense that ships bounce off of each other like crazy if they are ricocheting off of one another's shields to avoid a nasty collision. You can say that they look like they are bouncing off of one another's hulls, but I'd sooner believe that it is due to shield harmonics and whatnot, which is why even capital ships apparently "bounce" off of tiny stuff-- it is really emergency thrusters keeping them from colliding with anything of any mass.
Thats what i¦d say too.
But still, bumping caps, meh
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Rib0
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sae Eha
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: MellaRinn
Despite the laws of weightless space and friction-less environment
I think there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest that Eve space is not empty.
1. Ships have a maximum speed.
2. Ships slow down
3. There is a cone of light visible on the ships with spotlights.
4. You can see the beam of light from the energy weapons.
I think we may be in some kind of fluidic space, except that only exists in poor science fiction soap operas.
So you're saying that Einstein is all wrong and Newton was right after all, there really is an aether?! Excuse me, I have a letter to write to someone called Hawking.
well, based on the observations mellarinn has made, do you have a better explanation?
because real life physical laws dont seem to explain it... maybe we should get some people together and write a new set of physical laws for eve rather than trying to fit real life ones to it
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sae Eha
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: MellaRinn
Despite the laws of weightless space and friction-less environment
I think there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest that Eve space is not empty.
1. Ships have a maximum speed.
2. Ships slow down
3. There is a cone of light visible on the ships with spotlights.
4. You can see the beam of light from the energy weapons.
I think we may be in some kind of fluidic space, except that only exists in poor science fiction soap operas.
So you're saying that Einstein is all wrong and Newton was right after all, there really is an aether?! Excuse me, I have a letter to write to someone called Hawking.
Hes telling you that in EVE ships act like they are in enviroment (as opposed to empty space). If you dont belive fly in straight line on afterburner. Now turn out afterburner. See the deaceleration ? It has nothing to do with real space or einstein or newton (exept that their laws do not apply in eve)
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Gojyu
Gallente
Ever Flow
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Thom Daranta
I'm kinda new here, but it kinda makes sense that ships bounce off of each other like crazy if they are ricocheting off of one another's shields to avoid a nasty collision. You can say that they look like they are bouncing off of one another's hulls, but I'd sooner believe that it is due to shield harmonics and whatnot, which is why even capital ships apparently "bounce" off of tiny stuff-- it is really emergency thrusters keeping them from colliding with anything of any mass.
I'm desperately trying to find the clip from return of the jedi when the a-wing wipes out a star destroyer's bridge. If they implement anything, I want that to be it
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Amanda Shadowsword
Caldari
kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:20:00 -
[13]
space does have friction.
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:21:00 -
[14]
Bumping is lame in general, but I like the extra tactical element it provides.
However, I want to make an exception for capital ships. I think they should behave more appropriately when bumped. At the very least, cap ships should start spinning wildly whenever any little thing gets in their way. It's just disgraceful.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:27:00 -
[15]
hasnt it been said, time and time again, that "bumpimg" has nothing to do with the impact, its the ships ai reacting to a near collision by moving the ship?
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon!
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Celestal
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:35:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Celestal on 03/07/2007 14:35:50
Well think about this
if a tennis ball is thrown at a wall it travels towards the wall , hits it , then bounces back at 180 degrees from its initial direction ( assuming it hits the wall at 90 degrees and using a short interval to make the effects of gravity negligable ). For the ball to reverse its direction there must be a point in time where the ball is staionary .
Now take the same ball stand in the middle of a pair of railway tracks , wait for an express train weighing 10k tonnes to come at a speed of 120 mph , then throw the tennis ball directly at the train ( obviously jump out of the way of the train or it might ruin your day ).
As in the example of the wall , the ball changes direction 180 degrees so there must be a period when it is stationary .As the ball is stationary while in contact with the train , the train must also be stationary .
So if you want to make all the passengers in an express train fall down or spill their drinks , due to the decceleration of 120mph - 0 , just stand on the tracks and throw a tennis ball at it.
Darwin will be happy.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gojyu
I'm desperately trying to find the clip from return of the jedi when the a-wing wipes out a star destroyer's bridge. If they implement anything, I want that to be it
Here ya go: "Intensive fire forward fire power!" (at time stamp 6:30 in that vid)
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Celestal
Well think about this
if a tennis ball is thrown at a wall it travels towards the wall , hits it , then bounces back at 180 degrees from its initial direction ( assuming it hits the wall at 90 degrees and using a short interval to make the effects of gravity negligable ). For the ball to reverse its direction there must be a point in time where the ball is staionary .
Now take the same ball stand in the middle of a pair of railway tracks , wait for an express train weighing 10k tonnes to come at a speed of 120 mph , then throw the tennis ball directly ( obviously jump out of the way of the train or it might ruin your day ).
As in the example of the wall , the ball changes direction 180 degrees so there must be a period when it is stationary .As the ball is stationary while in contact with the train , the train must also be stationary .
So if you want to make all the passengers in an express train fall down or spill their drinks , due to the decceleration of 120mph - 0 , just stand on the tracks and throw a tennis ball at it.
Darwin will be happy.
I can't let this go
first off you are ignoring relativity, the ball is stationary REALTIVE to the train, now if the train had ai to tell it that it hit something and it better stop, and applied breaks, then it would be the same thing (assuming it could even detect the tennis ball)
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon!
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
hasnt it been said, time and time again, that "bumpimg" has nothing to do with the impact, its the ships ai reacting to a near collision by moving the ship?
Really? Well I know my freighter aligns at a glacial pace. Why can't I get these anti-collision maneuvering thrusters that ping pong my ship to work for me otherwise?
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Celestal
As in the example of the wall , the ball changes direction 180 degrees so there must be a period when it is stationary .As the ball is stationary while in contact with the train , the train must also be stationary .
Uhmmm...no.
The ball is stationary for a moment because it is changing direction of movement from --> to <-- (assuming a perfect collision for this discussion). The train never changes direction so it NEVER is momentarily motionless...not even for an instant. The train slows down a teeny tiny bit (truly insignificant and probably not even measurable) but that is it.
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Natalia Fachiri
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: MellaRinn
Despite the laws of weightless space and friction-less environment
I think there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest that Eve space is not empty.
1. Ships have a maximum speed.
2. Ships slow down
3. There is a cone of light visible on the ships with spotlights.
4. You can see the beam of light from the energy weapons.
I think we may be in some kind of fluidic space, except that only exists in poor science fiction soap operas.
Dont forget that there is sound. You can hear other ships shoot and you can hear your own shots hit.
The eve galaxy isnt our own. maybe it does have something in space?
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Celestal
As in the example of the wall , the ball changes direction 180 degrees so there must be a period when it is stationary .As the ball is stationary while in contact with the train , the train must also be stationary .
Uhmmm...no.
You are correct in stating this is incorrect, however you reason is wrong.
The ball deforms. So while the ball as a whole is stationary bits of it are still in motion. This deformation is more visible when a fly hits the windscreen of a moving car.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Natalia Fachiri
Dont forget that there is sound. You can hear other ships shoot and you can hear your own shots hit.
The eve galaxy isnt our own. maybe it does have something in space?
That is explained in the EVE backstory. Sound in space is a feature of being a pod pilot. Your ship's sensors detect weapon fire and ships moving about and such and the ship computer overalys sound for the pilot to improve their situational awareness.
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Gojyu
Gallente
Ever Flow
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Gojyu
I'm desperately trying to find the clip from return of the jedi when the a-wing wipes out a star destroyer's bridge. If they implement anything, I want that to be it
Here ya go: "Intensive fire forward fire power!" (at time stamp 6:30 in that vid)
Found a funnier one
As for the physics argument, let's get real. If we applied physics to this game, we wouldn't be able to warp through planets, chat to each other in real time, turn our ships with a mwd on, have ships able to project energy fields whilst still able to run their reactor power down with an extra rocket strapped to the hull and a myriad of other stuff that's in the game. I, for one, am happy ccp have put gameplay before physics. So, argue that it's poor gameplay, not poor science
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Duckeye
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:58:00 -
[25]
You know they could just make it so that the heavier ships just push things out of it's way until it itself hits something bigger. If only the smaller ships within a collision bounce everything would be fine...in general at least. Things like wreck build-up around caps and stuff would have to be approached in a slightly different manner...I can see freighters plowing a path through tons of ravens at a dock as they all bounce in random directions, still that would be a fun thing to do for freighter pilots lol.
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Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
hasnt it been said, time and time again, that "bumpimg" has nothing to do with the impact, its the ships ai reacting to a near collision by moving the ship?
Really? Well I know my freighter aligns at a glacial pace. Why can't I get these anti-collision maneuvering thrusters that ping pong my ship to work for me otherwise?
indeed. apparently, "bumbing" not only causes the ship to "bounce" at unnatural speeds that it would never be able to normally attain, but it also does not seem to correctly calculate using the mass and velocity since it allows small objects to tranfer insane amounts of momentum to larger objects.
or maybe it is correct and we don't realise how "bouncy" weightless space can be? oh but wait... space in EVE has friction so the transfer of momentum should act like it does on Earth too. surely, when you turn off your AB the ship doesn't fire retro rockets to slow you down?
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Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Celestal
As in the example of the wall , the ball changes direction 180 degrees so there must be a period when it is stationary .As the ball is stationary while in contact with the train , the train must also be stationary .
Uhmmm...no.
You are correct in stating this is incorrect, however you reason is wrong.
The ball deforms. So while the ball as a whole is stationary bits of it are still in motion. This deformation is more visible when a fly hits the windscreen of a moving car.
Yes the ball deforms and parts of it are moving but that is not relevant for this bit. We are talking about vectors. Ball is travelling --> and then is travelling <--. There is a moment in there where it is not going in either direction but is motionless. And of course motion is relative...relative to an observer standing beside the tracks and relative to the train but all observers would witness a moment where the ball is not moving in either direction so "motionless" for that instant. The observers would just disagree at what point that actually occurred.
Besides, for a thought experiment just assume a perfectly inelastic ball (no such thing) but fine for this purpose. Think of a steel ball bearing if that helps (yes it deforms too but not so much as a tennis ball would).
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Rilder
Caldari
THC LTD
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Natalia Fachiri
Dont forget that there is sound. You can hear other ships shoot and you can hear your own shots hit.
The eve galaxy isnt our own. maybe it does have something in space?
Prime fiction states that the sounds you hear are programmed sounds to help pod pilots "Adjust easier"
Visit my blog =)http://rilderslog.blogspot.com/ |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gojyu
As for the physics argument, let's get real. If we applied physics to this game, we wouldn't be able to warp through planets, chat to each other in real time, turn our ships with a mwd on, have ships able to project energy fields whilst still able to run their reactor power down with an extra rocket strapped to the hull and a myriad of other stuff that's in the game. I, for one, am happy ccp have put gameplay before physics. So, argue that it's poor gameplay, not poor science
True enough and really a game that perfectly modelled real life physics in space would be annoying and probably not fun unless you were a NASA/ESA trained shuttle pilot.
That said games still strive for some semblance of what you would expect. You do not want to break the immersion factor if it can be avoided. We can set aside our notions of how space really works easily enough and watch Star Wars or play EVE and enjoy it. But when your bajillion ton Titan ping pongs about because a shuttle hit it then you sorta get yanked back hard out of the game with a big "WTF?" moment.
This aspect needs fixing. Even if bumping is still a feature of the game some reason needs to be applied to it. Or should anyway.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:39:00 -
[30]
Signed.
What do we have mass for? Atm its Flys bumping elephants. Even if its space and eve and all that but its ridiculous.
Ship lovers click here |
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