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Shaister
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:25:00 -
[1]
Is it me or does anyone else find that this is just silly ? what is the point of an intercepter which apparently is supposed to be the fastest ship in the game when fitted correctly.
But wait then along comes a battleship with more speed than a intercepter.
Welcome to the world of the Machrael* (not sure on spelling) now think of an intercepter moving at over 7000m/s with the dmg and tanking capability of a battleship.
problems:
A) moves to fast not even 6000m/s cruise missles can scratch it, they hit doing 0.0dmg 95% of the time.
B) guns can't track and hit it
C) is tanked to battleship specs
D) not even interceptors or correct speed specialised ships can catch it
not to mention u can't web it fast enough just moves to quickly..
I am just wondering if this Nerf is going to be fixed to meet with all other battleship speeds of around 100-120m/s
as the Mach sits at 197m/s standard.
Just think its nerfed.
or atleast bring something else out to battle it other than "just buy a mach and do the same thing".
Thanks
Shaister
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Razvedchitsa
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Razvedchitsa on 03/07/2007 13:26:49
Yawn...
You'll be surprised to know than in over rated thing called RL bigger ships often go faster than smaller ones.
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sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:29:00 -
[3]
the ship is supposed to be fast that its role, plenty of them die. If it was a standard tech 1 piece of crap doing what its doing I might agree but this is what the mach is for.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:29:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Shaister
Welcome to the world of the Machrael*
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/mackerel.jpg
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'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:29:00 -
[5]
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...
Help me help you. |
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Loki Life
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:34:00 -
[6]
Unfortunately the nerf to these ships have been nerfed quite a while ago. Nanofibers no longer give 30m/s bonus to speed. Second these ships are not tanked as the normal BS is done. These ships are tanked with speed. They might have one armor rep, but I doubt they would put on something that would slow them down.
As for the intercepter, it is the fastest ship. I've seen an intercepter go 13500m/s and I've heard of them going 16000m/s. These pilots use anything and everything to gain speed. Namely Snake Implates.
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MOS DEF
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...
While that might be true there is still no ship that can effectively keep a snakemach in place.
All a 20k/sec inty can do to a mach is getting NOSed and killed withing a acouple seconds.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 03/07/2007 13:42:16
Originally by: Razvedchitsa
Edited by: Razvedchitsa on 03/07/2007 13:26:49
Yawn...
You'll be surprised to know than in over rated thing called RL bigger ships often go faster than smaller ones.
Yep. For ships in water this is absolutely true. Has to do with a thing called hull speed which basically says the longer a ship the faster it can move in the water (this ignores boats that plane...rise out of the water and ride on top ala a speed boat). The perverse result of this is big ships can and often do go faster than little ships. In WWII the Iowa Class battleships were produced in part to be one of the few ships that could keep up with aircraft carriers going at full tilt. They'd both readily outrun frigates and destroyers.
Spaceships would be a bit different though. IRL as long as you apply a thrust the ship will accelerate. Bigger ships just taking longer to do it than little ones but top speed wouldn't really count since just keep accelerating and you'll get there eventually (fuel permitting).
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:49:00 -
[9]
spend as much on ur ceptor as you would on do on a mach that does 7km/s.... U'll see that ur gonna be alot faster than 7km/s.
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Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Shaister
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:52:00 -
[10]
the point im really trying to get across is that no other battleship i see can match it.. ive tried a raven, rokh, tempest, typhoon, megathron, domi, abaddon, apoc, and the mach will always smash me hands down nossing me and launching torpedoes while moving at over 7000m/s !!
nothing i shoot or fire can catch it.. doesn't really matter if the ship has no resistances or repair systems if u can hit it with missles doing 0.0 dmg u never need to rep or put resists on it..
however every other ship in the game aka Battleship is quite even close.. tempest vs rokh, raven vs megathron etc.. still good chance of kill one or the other..
i guess i just see 12 people in mach's whiping out 30 man fleets cause nothing can hit them..can't even get a web as it doesn't take effect cause moves to fast.. atleast when an interceptor goes 16000m/s its share fire power isn't high against slower bigger ships.. where as this Mach has the fire power of a battleship and the speed of an intercepter there is no counter except maybe an inty which would be nossed and destroyed in seconds.
just my 2cents.. but hey its how the games done just wanted to know other peoples opinions.
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Semkhet
Saudarkars
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...
While that might be true there is still no ship that can effectively keep a snakemach in place.
All a 20k/sec inty can do to a mach is getting NOSed and killed withing a acouple seconds.
Incorrect. A pimped Crow would field a domi disruptor = 30 Km. Hence the ceptor can quietly orbit at 29Km. If the Mach pilot uses heat so can the ceptor also. Besides, with the correct skills, mods and implants a Crow can run MWD and disruptor togheter for a long time. How long can the Machariel MWD ?
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Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:53:00 -
[12]
Lol did someone get blown up by a speed-mach? There are plenty of ways to kill one, you just have to put a little planning into it.
-Wylker
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shaister
the point im really trying to get across is that no other battleship i see can match it.. ive tried a raven, rokh, tempest, typhoon, megathron, domi, abaddon, apoc, and the mach will always smash me hands down nossing me and launching torpedoes while moving at over 7000m/s !!
nothing i shoot or fire can catch it.. doesn't really matter if the ship has no resistances or repair systems if u can hit it with missles doing 0.0 dmg u never need to rep or put resists on it..
however every other ship in the game aka Battleship is quite even close.. tempest vs rokh, raven vs megathron etc.. still good chance of kill one or the other..
i guess i just see 12 people in mach's whiping out 30 man fleets cause nothing can hit them..can't even get a web as it doesn't take effect cause moves to fast.. atleast when an interceptor goes 16000m/s its share fire power isn't high against slower bigger ships.. where as this Mach has the fire power of a battleship and the speed of an intercepter there is no counter except maybe an inty which would be nossed and destroyed in seconds.
just my 2cents.. but hey its how the games done just wanted to know other peoples opinions.
Mach prices & availability vs Raven/Megathron/Any other non-faction BS anyone?
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:55:00 -
[14]
2x arazu and some ceptors with webbers and target disruptors cna tackle trace and take these babies down real quick ( plus throw in some drones)
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Semkhet
Saudarkars
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...
Btw Chribba, speed has took quite a beating in recent nerfs. Is your 20 Km/sec figure recent, and besides the obvious implants, was reached thanks maxed gang skills and mods support from a CS ?
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:01:00 -
[16]
IMO no BS should be able to move that fast. 1k fine. 2k okay thats stretching it. 7k? Um no.
Whats the point of flying an inty again?
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OneSock
Silentia Mortalis
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:11:00 -
[17]
How about a rail siper setup. at long range you might just get the tracking on them and if they MWD to you you'll have no problem hitting them. The only question would be if you can break them before they reach you. a small gang of snipers might be able to pick them off one at a time.
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:18:00 -
[18]
A huginn or rapier can easily cancel out all the speed advantage of such a battleship.
If Macharial was just a tier 3 bs that cost 150 mil and could achieve 7000 m/s with standard tech 2 fit, then you would be right to cry about imbalance. But you are talking about extreme case here, a rare ship with rare mods, with total cost well over 2 billion isk. And once you start talking about special cases, then you should accept a counter-special case of having a rapier or huginn with 40km double webs in gang. Or if you want a pimped out rapier against pimped out mach, the rapier can have 60km web range.
Really, if it's not that hard to lose a 2 billion isk mach. I have lost 3 already.
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Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:39:00 -
[19]
Claymore
Skirmish warfare link - Interdiction Maneuvers
Skirmish Warfare mindlink
Arazu
Huginn
with fraction scrams its possible to get 80km range
with fraction webbs 60km+
throw in a rook and you have a nice anti nano gang for a fraction of the cost
The person who said 'violence never solves anything' has obviously never thrown a Rubix cube at a wall |
Steve Holt
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:44:00 -
[20]
7k/s u suck ive seen 12k/s mach's
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Kalazar
Amarr
Veto. Academy
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Deacon Ix
with fraction scrams its possible to get 80km range
with fraction webbs 60km+
WTB Fraction mods, they sound nice. Especially the webbs.
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Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shaister
C) is tanked to battleship specs
Incorrect. A nanoBS does *NOT* have a tank, because almost every ounce of Cap is being used up by the MWD to maintain that speed. All of its lows are taken up by Inertial stabs/nanofibers/overdrives w/ speed rigs & snake implants. If it runs a shield tank (eliminating much of it's ability to keep the target pinned down i.e. tackle) it'll be purely passive and few ships capable of running the nanOMG speedster have enough mids to hold a good shield tank.
So... if you get aggressed by a nanOMG it'll usually try to get in close enough to NOS to keep it's MWD going. Return the favor and it'll end up running before your tank breaks.
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Der Ewige
Cataclysm Enterprises
Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:54:00 -
[23]
Well 7 km/s is not that fast.
Interceptors can surpase 50 km/s.
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http://www.stillbruch.ch |
Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Deacon Ix on 03/07/2007 15:01:18
Originally by: Kalazar
Originally by: Deacon Ix
with fraction scrams its possible to get 80km range
with fraction webbs 60km+
WTB Fraction mods, they sound nice. Especially the webbs.
Domination webb range 15km
Huginn 60% bonus to webb range/lvl
@ lvl 5 300%
=60km webb range
+ gang module bonus
Skirmish warfare specialist 5
Warfare link specialist 5
Skirmish Warfare link - Interdiction Maneuvers 3% per lvl of Warfare link specialist = 15%
15% + Skirmish warfare specialist @ 10% bonus/lvl = 22.5%
Skirmish warfare mindlink + 50%
=33.75%
60 x 1.3375
max range ~ 80km with webbs
this is with maxed skills but even with lvl 4 recons you get a pretty good range
with some of the office webbs you have a basic range of 40km 
*edit* forgot to add the bonus of a claymore 3%/lvl to skirmish warfare links that will bump the range up to over 90km....
similar happens with a Warp Disrupter but I CBA to go thu the calcs
sorry for going a bit off topic...
The person who said 'violence never solves anything' has obviously never thrown a Rubix cube at a wall |
Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 03/07/2007 14:59:12
Overheat a faction webber with gang links and you break a shade over 100km I do belive.
Edit: can't remember if thats with recon 4 or 5.
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Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Indigo Johnson
Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 03/07/2007 14:59:12
Overheat a faction webber with gang links and you break a shade over 100km I do belive.
Edit: can't remember if thats with recon 4 or 5.
oh yeah and then heat on top
muhahahaha
The person who said 'violence never solves anything' has obviously never thrown a Rubix cube at a wall |
Auron Shadowbane
Teeth Of The Hydra
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shaister
the point im really trying to get across is that no other battleship i see can match it.. ive tried a raven, rokh, tempest, typhoon, megathron, domi, abaddon, apoc, and the mach will always smash me hands down nossing me and launching torpedoes while moving at over 7000m/s !!
nothing i shoot or fire can catch it.. doesn't really matter if the ship has no resistances or repair systems if u can hit it with missles doing 0.0 dmg u never need to rep or put resists on it..
however every other ship in the game aka Battleship is quite even close.. tempest vs rokh, raven vs megathron etc.. still good chance of kill one or the other..
i guess i just see 12 people in mach's whiping out 30 man fleets cause nothing can hit them..can't even get a web as it doesn't take effect cause moves to fast.. atleast when an interceptor goes 16000m/s its share fire power isn't high against slower bigger ships.. where as this Mach has the fire power of a battleship and the speed of an intercepter there is no counter except maybe an inty which would be nossed and destroyed in seconds.
just my 2cents.. but hey its how the games done just wanted to know other peoples opinions.
I'll duell your all-so-mighty speed mach in a scorp everytime.
You'll be permajammed and nossed/neuted out of mwd faster than you can cry about my drones slowly eating away your 3bil investment.
If we talk gang jsut add a hughin to that scorp and you won't even have the chance to escape if you wanted.
or take another approach and use a carrier with web drones (still cheaper than mach @ 7kms). if 15 drones are chaseing you a 48km diameter bubble becomes smaller and smaller very soon.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes.
erm, no?
Size: 22.98 KB (23528 Bytes) |
Cpt Branko
Guardian Heroes
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:11:00 -
[28]
Er, lol.
If he can track you, you can track him, too. If he can't track you, he's got only 4 unbonused missile hardpoints to use (meaning, anything can tank it, a passive tank jaguar could probably tank it *indefinitely*), turning it into a 3+bil (probably more) interceptor with cruiser damage, cruiser agility, and dreadnaught price.
All you need is a double-webbing huggin, and suddenly it's a 2+bil piece of junk with a paper-tank, low DPS, and a speed of about 300ish m/sec max. Ransom him for two billion, profit ;P
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Er, lol.
If he can track you, you can track him, too. If he can't track you, he's got only 4 unbonused missile hardpoints to use (meaning, anything can tank it, a passive tank jaguar could probably tank it *indefinitely*), turning it into a 3+bil (probably more) interceptor with cruiser damage, cruiser agility, and dreadnaught price.
I'd love to see a Jag tank a nanomach :p
Nothing wrong with them, not as fast as they used to be and a lot of ISK is spent on making them fast.
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:30:00 -
[30]
Ahhh the daily "wah wah I'm a moron" thread. Goes well with a cup of tea 
__________
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:33:00 -
[31]
CCP should just alter the flying mechanics a bit. Make it so a 7000 m/s battleship could only maintain that speed at an orbit of 75km (or whatever). Problem solved.
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THE R3APER
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:06:00 -
[32]
It's not reasonable to alter the game mechanics for this ship. Just learn how to beat it. Should they alter the Scorpion because it can perma jam whatever it wants and there's nothing you can do about it? Nope, but you're gonna need quite a few friends to take it down most likely, because it's not your standard battleship. Same thing here. Don't fight battles you can't win. If you say it was unavoidable... ask yourself if you messed up somewhere 
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:10:00 -
[33]
Lol people thatis ridiculows. Machariel role IS beign a fast BS, and its not as nearly as uber as it was before nano nerf.
Now if a gang cannot kill a nanoBS it deserves to die!!!
7 km/s is not hard to hit!! Put 2 Tempest with dual 425 and 2 target painters and voila your machariel will be defeated! Huggin, rapier, Dampeners, lots of way of defeating him.
A simple CELESTIS will make a machariel worthless.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Eagle05
Rogue Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:16:00 -
[34]
Other people have said this but im going to say it again anyway becuase im bored.
I think what your missing is the Machariel is a faction battleship, faction battleships are better battleships and more expensive, and your trying to beat it with standard battleships. Also, to get speed like that the Machariel pilot is spending alot of money on expensive modules and implants, to me you made it sound like its easy to get that speed. And even when high amounts of money have been spent to get the ship to this speed, there are still ways to catch it as people have said.
Also, to make you a bit happier, as far as i know the speed nerf isnt over yet, so far they have just returned it to how it was, but as if im right, they are going to made it harder to keeps mwds on constantly or some other workaround.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Semkhet
Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...
Btw Chribba, speed has took quite a beating in recent nerfs. Is your 20 Km/sec figure recent, and besides the obvious implants, was reached thanks maxed gang skills and mods support from a CS ?
Those figures are from like 3 days ago, dunno if I got nerfed more in todays patch tho.
It was acheived with the help of a Lv4 Skirmish warfare specialist running mods yes, however not in a claymore so the speed can be boosted even more with the alt in a claymore and upped to Lv5+gang implant.
Help me help you. |
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oodin
R.A.G.N.A.R.O.K.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...
so you can steal all the veld?? 
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Galen Kane
Caldari
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:53:00 -
[37]
Just when you think the average EvE player I.Q. couldn't drop any further....along comes the OP.
Yeah I do have a Bob Alt
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! |
Kaynard Stormwalker
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.07.03 17:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Galen Kane
Just when you think the average EvE player I.Q. couldn't drop any further....along comes the OP.
Yeah, please...think before you post. -_-
You should cry that the ashimmu has sucky grid instead. =P
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miskagirl
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Posted - 2007.07.03 17:11:00 -
[39]
This is simple it is either an on or off concept. either BS were not ment to move that fast and NONE of them should, or it is an acceptable speed for BS and nearly all of them should be able to reach that speed.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 17:12:00 -
[40]
where is the logic in that?
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon!
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Malcanis
High4Life
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 17:46:00 -
[41]
Originally by: OneSock
How about a rail siper setup. at long range you might just get the tracking on them and if they MWD to you you'll have no problem hitting them. The only question would be if you can break them before they reach you. a small gang of snipers might be able to pick them off one at a time.
A couple of T2 sniper Rokhs assisted by a Scimitar with tracking boosters could perhaps cause a ship like that some trouble... depends if you want to kill it or drive it off.
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Face Changelette
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Posted - 2007.07.03 17:46:00 -
[42]
"Its a faction BS, blah blah blah"
No its an i-win ship that dictates when it fights, and when it runs, with nigh-on 100% success. If you catch a nano-mach, he didn't deserve to fly it. That's overpowered.
"You need to plan better, drivel drivel drivel"
What idiot is gonna sit around waiting for you to snare his faction BS thats pimped to the eyeballs? What other ship needs careful planning and the use of multiple special-role ships to beat it? Honestly...
Nerf it.
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The Gate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 17:59:00 -
[43]
People need to get a clue, the problem with this ship is that it cannot be beaten 1v1, its the fact that it takes a gang to kill it.
No battleship should be unbeatable 1v1, fact. |
Weer Treyt
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Posted - 2007.07.03 18:17:00 -
[44]
Nerf nerf threads, please. 
Whenever there is some good setup or some good idea (no matter how hard it is to get it actually going) there will be the great whinage. That's poor style.
Weer Treyt
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 18:19:00 -
[45]
I guess you lost a ship to Chode Rizoum?
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Adrian Kerensky
Caldari
STK Scientific
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.03 18:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...
While that might be true there is still no ship that can effectively keep a snakemach in place.
Erm...last time I checked a rapier with 2x fleeting webs and a 24km disruptor did a pretty good job of it....
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 18:23:00 -
[47]
man if i bring a 2B ship into PVP i seriously hope it will kick some arse
that's such a shiny trophy to kill :p
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max bygraves
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Posted - 2007.07.03 18:27:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Shaister
the point im really trying to get across is that no other battleship i see can match it.. ive tried a raven, rokh, tempest, typhoon, megathron, domi, abaddon, apoc, and the mach will always smash me hands down nossing me and launching torpedoes while moving at over 7000m/s !!
nothing i shoot or fire can catch it.. doesn't really matter if the ship has no resistances or repair systems if u can hit it with missles doing 0.0 dmg u never need to rep or put resists on it..
however every other ship in the game aka Battleship is quite even close.. tempest vs rokh, raven vs megathron etc.. still good chance of kill one or the other..
i guess i just see 12 people in mach's whiping out 30 man fleets cause nothing can hit them..can't even get a web as it doesn't take effect cause moves to fast.. atleast when an interceptor goes 16000m/s its share fire power isn't high against slower bigger ships.. where as this Mach has the fire power of a battleship and the speed of an intercepter there is no counter except maybe an inty which would be nossed and destroyed in seconds.
just my 2cents.. but hey its how the games done just wanted to know other peoples opinions.
lol youve tried chasing a maracheal in an abbadon ?
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.03 18:27:00 -
[49]
Objects as large as our moon are flung throughout space at speeds that far exceed those of the ships we fly in EVE, and someone claim it's not possible.
Regardless of this, EVE is a game, how ships handle is a matter of game mechanics, and people who have invested a great deal more time and effort into game balance have decided that this is the best way to go.
I would stake my faith in those, even though my disagreements on other topics.
- Recruitment open again-
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heheheh
Singularity.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 18:30:00 -
[50]
man, still no end of people getting popped and crying about the ship/setup that popped them.
amuses me tbh as i picture you all sitting at your screens turning red and getting angry over a few pixels.
you all need to chill.
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MOS DEF
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.03 19:00:00 -
[51]
Edited by: MOS DEF on 03/07/2007 18:59:34
Originally by: Semkhet
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...
While that might be true there is still no ship that can effectively keep a snakemach in place.
All a 20k/sec inty can do to a mach is getting NOSed and killed withing a acouple seconds.
Incorrect. A pimped Crow would field a domi disruptor = 30 Km. Hence the ceptor can quietly orbit at 29Km. If the Mach pilot uses heat so can the ceptor also. Besides, with the correct skills, mods and implants a Crow can run MWD and disruptor togheter for a long time. How long can the Machariel MWD ?
Do you really think a mach pilot that put over 2 bill in implants is stupid enough to not fit TS NOS. Sorry man - you just died.
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slothe
Caldari
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.03 19:24:00 -
[52]
you need a ship like the nano-mach to bump all these carebear npc carriers away from stations.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.03 19:25:00 -
[53]
Wouldn't a ship like that doing a tight orbit at that speed basically have its whole crew spraying out the side windows in a fine mist? :)
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The RepoMan
Caldari
Red Horizon Inc
Red Horizon
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Posted - 2007.07.03 19:42:00 -
[54]
I'm not too sure how to feel bout this thread. On one hand you could have jumped up and down and screamed about the nanophoon problems before and everyone was like 'lolz its fine harhar we pay isk so we pwn, bring a huginn and lachesis next time noob!', and now nobody is going to argue how dumb it is.
Though aside from that, i have no clue what the hell you mean by guns cant hit it, first off, IT USES GUNS, and thanks to ccp's brillaint coding, your ship movement only serves to reduce your tracking ability instead of increasing it, so if you cant hit it, it cant hit you, plain and simple. My rokh had absolutely no problems tracking and damaging even the best fitted nanophoons back when they were the fotm, they could obviously still just warp off whenever they felt like it, but that's just how it was.
Sure, mach is a bit silly when you put enough money into it, but so is pretty much any ship. I'd be all for a sweeping faction/officer/implants nerf, but you cant go crying about single ships using them, that's not a very good way to get things done.
tbh just be happy it's not a gimped faction ship, most faction ships have such ****ty fittings you cant even get a good setup with unlimited funds.
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Savesti Kyrsst
Minmatar
White-Noise
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 19:45:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Face Changelette
"Its a faction BS, blah blah blah"
No its an i-win ship that dictates when it fights, and when it runs, with nigh-on 100% success. If you catch a nano-mach, he didn't deserve to fly it. That's overpowered.
"You need to plan better, drivel drivel drivel"
What idiot is gonna sit around waiting for you to snare his faction BS thats pimped to the eyeballs? What other ship needs careful planning and the use of multiple special-role ships to beat it? Honestly...
Nerf it.
Vagabond, Nano-Ishtar, Lachesis, Arazu, Rapier, Huginn, Curse, Pilgrim, Falcon, Rook, Vindicator, any Capship with a decent pilot, any Mothership, damping Raven... blah...
Which of these ships is the most expensive? Faction/Officer MOM>Machariel with Snakes>Vindi with Slaves>Carrier.
By this logic a NanoMach should pwn a rapier... so buy a NanoMach of your own and fight my rapier kthnxbye 
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.07.03 19:47:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Shaister
Is it me or does anyone else find that this is just silly ? what is the point of an intercepter which apparently is supposed to be the fastest ship in the game when fitted correctly.
But wait then along comes a battleship with more speed than a intercepter.
Welcome to the world of the Machrael* (not sure on spelling) now think of an intercepter moving at over 7000m/s with the dmg and tanking capability of a battleship.
problems:
A) moves to fast not even 6000m/s cruise missles can scratch it, they hit doing 0.0dmg 95% of the time.
B) guns can't track and hit it
C) is tanked to battleship specs
D) not even interceptors or correct speed specialised ships can catch it
not to mention u can't web it fast enough just moves to quickly..
I am just wondering if this Nerf is going to be fixed to meet with all other battleship speeds of around 100-120m/s
as the Mach sits at 197m/s standard.
Just think its nerfed.
or atleast bring something else out to battle it other than "just buy a mach and do the same thing".
Thanks
Shaister
No, its not silly; this battleship has a sig radius of Rosey O'Donnell. You could spin your ship on axis and randomly fire with a 95% chance of scoring a critical hit.
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Ahz
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Posted - 2007.07.03 21:10:00 -
[57]
Risk = reward. Any time a mach pilot enters into PVP he's put a minimum of 1 billion uninsurable ISK on the line. Sometimes more than twice that.
The ship isn't invinceable. It's just hard to beat like any number of other ships given the right circumstances.
Nerf the mach and there's no reason to fly one at all.
To the OP. If you think they're so overpowered, go get one. If someone pops you, you learn what they're weak to. If not then you've got your dream ship.
Either way you win.
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Pezzle
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 21:40:00 -
[58]
Without comment on this specific case, rarity/expense should never be used as a balancing factor.
In other words, if something is considered ok the reason should not be because there are only a few of them.
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Araxmas
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
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Posted - 2007.07.03 21:57:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cipher7
IMO no BS should be able to move that fast. 1k fine. 2k okay thats stretching it. 7k? Um no.
Whats the point of flying an inty again?
to intercept...which is what they do as they are exceptionally fast warpers and can reach far more than 7kps.
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Robbie Rotten left me |
milinkoee
Bastage Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.07.03 21:58:00 -
[60]
Edited by: milinkoee on 03/07/2007 22:00:15
Originally by: Face Changelette
What other ship needs careful planning and the use of multiple special-role ships to beat it? Honestly...
Any ship I'm in.
It is a 3 billion isk get up, and I am pretty sure I can put together a small gang for a fraction of that cost to counter it. Seems more than balanced to me.
Bastage, Inc.
Worst Pirates Ever!!! |
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.07.03 22:11:00 -
[61]
Speed in EVE, is the one stat you can rely upon to win you fights.
Pretty much any other stat, you'll sooner or later run into something that will beat you, almost regardless of how pimp your fit is. A deadspace tank is pretty awesome, but it provides an _edge_ in combat, not a fairly reliable win or run.
Speed is the exception. A ship that's significantly faster, will run rings around the slower. Usually, this is similarly linked to the ship in question also being notably smaller, with correspondingly reduced fittings/slots/damage.
I don't think anyone has a problem with interceptors being too fast for a battleship to pin down.
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Kayleigh Lothian
Minmatar
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 22:17:00 -
[62]
Originally by: The Gate
People need to get a clue, the problem with this ship is that it cannot be beaten 1v1, its the fact that it takes a gang to kill it.
No battleship should be unbeatable 1v1, fact.
The same could be said for alot of battleships. If fitted correctly moste of the BSs would "always" win against a specific target. WHat happens when this Mach run into another Mach, that is not as fast, but fast enough to get a web on it while still having a tank?
That Mach is not unbeatalbe 1v1, by the same token that it is a "single purpouse setup" you will need the exact right setup to kill it. If a NPC-ing Raven gets killed by another ship, that other ship is not automatically invincible(sp?)...
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.07.03 22:58:00 -
[63]
It takes a rare and expensive ship with a very expensive fit to do that. Just be glad they can't do 18,000m/s in a Nanophoon anymore.
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FraXy
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.04 15:06:00 -
[64]
Bhaalgorn, 2x Tobias Web, 1x Mindlink Claymore and overload the webbers:
40 x 1.5 x 1.38 x 1.3 = 107.6km
Boom, Mach dead.
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Slayton Ford
Vindicate and Deliverance
ASGARDIAN EMPIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.04 21:02:00 -
[65]
Ok, you folks talk about using specific ships to take out a Mach are missing that the Mach usually has a support gang. When you have a Mach supported by a few Vegas, a Astarte, a Cerebus or two then taking out the Mach becomes a lot more difficult. Once you remove his support, then he is a lot more impotent to a gang.
Outbreak should know a little about this from last night...
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This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.04 21:39:00 -
[66]
The fastest battleship in the game goes fast when set up for speed. Nerf it!
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Thomas Torquemada
Minmatar
Universal Peace Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.04 22:28:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Shaister
Is it me or does anyone else find that this is just silly ? what is the point of an intercepter which apparently is supposed to be the fastest ship in the game when fitted correctly.
But wait then along comes a battleship with more speed than a intercepter.
Welcome to the world of the Machrael* (not sure on spelling) now think of an intercepter moving at over 7000m/s with the dmg and tanking capability of a battleship.
problems:
A) moves to fast not even 6000m/s cruise missles can scratch it, they hit doing 0.0dmg 95% of the time.
B) guns can't track and hit it
C) is tanked to battleship specs
D) not even interceptors or correct speed specialised ships can catch it
not to mention u can't web it fast enough just moves to quickly..
I am just wondering if this Nerf is going to be fixed to meet with all other battleship speeds of around 100-120m/s
as the Mach sits at 197m/s standard.
Just think its nerfed.
or atleast bring something else out to battle it other than "just buy a mach and do the same thing".
Thanks
Shaister
my claw reaches over 13,000ms so your wrong, plenty of interceptors CAN go that fast and web the hell out of anything.
id be more concerned if i was seeing massive herds of roaming machriel gangs, swooping all over the eve usiverse, but, well, we dont do we.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace?
Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Thomas Torquemada
Minmatar
Universal Peace Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.04 22:30:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Thomas Torquemada on 04/07/2007 22:29:27
Originally by: Slayton Ford
Ok, you folks talk about using specific ships to take out a Mach are missing that the Mach usually has a support gang. When you have a Mach supported by a few Vegas, a Astarte, a Cerebus or two then taking out the Mach becomes a lot more difficult. Once you remove his support, then he is a lot more impotent to a gang.
Outbreak should know a little about this from last night...
take down the support leaving the mach on its own then.
As for using specific shisp for a specific role, well yeah, thats kinda why we have so many ships of differing specs/types.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace?
Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Miasan Argonoho
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Posted - 2007.07.04 22:50:00 -
[69]
??
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New Earth Princess |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.07.04 23:21:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 03/07/2007 13:42:16
Originally by: Razvedchitsa
Edited by: Razvedchitsa on 03/07/2007 13:26:49
Yawn...
You'll be surprised to know than in over rated thing called RL bigger ships often go faster than smaller ones.
Yep. For ships in water this is absolutely true. Has to do with a thing called hull speed which basically says the longer a ship the faster it can move in the water (this ignores boats that plane...rise out of the water and ride on top ala a speed boat). The perverse result of this is big ships can and often do go faster than little ships. In WWII the Iowa Class battleships were produced in part to be one of the few ships that could keep up with aircraft carriers going at full tilt. They'd both readily outrun frigates and destroyers.
Spaceships would be a bit different though. IRL as long as you apply a thrust the ship will accelerate. Bigger ships just taking longer to do it than little ones but top speed wouldn't really count since just keep accelerating and you'll get there eventually (fuel permitting).
?! loled i can't believe that you argue realistic about eve?! because if you want to go into realism then try to exsplain how the HELL you can move so fast that a gun that have had the same years of technologi can't keep track of it?!
there is nothing in our day's that can go faster then a computer can track it, and the movement you need to move a gun to shoot something moving over a distance is always alot smaller then the movement distance...
so its just plain stupid...
but well can you remember how many defended the nano ships back then :P lol
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CrestoftheStars
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.07.04 23:27:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Thomas Torquemada
Edited by: Thomas Torquemada on 04/07/2007 22:29:27
Originally by: Slayton Ford
Ok, you folks talk about using specific ships to take out a Mach are missing that the Mach usually has a support gang. When you have a Mach supported by a few Vegas, a Astarte, a Cerebus or two then taking out the Mach becomes a lot more difficult. Once you remove his support, then he is a lot more impotent to a gang.
Outbreak should know a little about this from last night...
take down the support leaving the mach on its own then.
As for using specific shisp for a specific role, well yeah, thats kinda why we have so many ships of differing specs/types.
well all i am gonna say is that speed on large ships makes them too exstreme, since the range on weapons are very limited within a range.
if the change of hitting (as for realism) just was going down as you where moving away, then year sure, but this way... well making a ship immune to its own seize ships is just stupidity.
lets say it meets a ship without a webber.. then what?! it don't even need to fire, it can just float around and around and when it gets bored it leave..
ask me and i would say "it's just too much of a "i win" in 90% of all situations".
speeds effect on weapons need to be altered alot.
___________________________________________
Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
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Beowulf Scheafer
Gallente
Hell Hounds
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Posted - 2007.07.04 23:28:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Shaister
D) not even interceptors or correct speed specialised ships can catch it
well, did you ever thought of it as a speed specialised ship? obviously it is one, whether you accept the fact or not... its the fastest battleship out atm, and then again vagas with snakes do more like 12km/s or so, so its just fine as it is
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.04 23:56:00 -
[73]
Keep in mind the nanochiriel is not nearly as powerfull as the nanophoons and nanodomnis of before the patch. its damage is MUCH lower than the typhoon or domni one. If you can't call for help on the time it takes to kill you.. your fault.
LAst tiem i saw a nanaochirielr kill a BS he took 7 minutes.. he did kille dit.. but got wasted 30 secodns later when a huggin appeared.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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