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DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:26:00 - [1] Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 18:28:06 With a couple misconceptions on the whole PVPer Vs Carebear relationship I figured I might as well try to clear some things up. I might get flamed. I might get applauded. I might get ignored, who knows. Most PVPers think along the lines of "Why would anyone want to ONLY collect isk and be a carebear when PVP is soo much more exciting! I'll just never understand it, but w/e floats your boat". Though many carebears misinterpret this as "You'd have to be an idiot to not PVP" when this is clearly not the case. When a PVPer refers to a carebear in the negative sense he usually means the type of person who gets up on his high horse thinking he's so much better then all these "stupid pirates". Not the every day "I'd rather not PVP, but I accept that as just another playstyle" Carebear. Most PVPers will be friendly in local and even help other players avoid falling into the same trap again. However if you're the kind of carebear that gets up on his "high-horse" and start smacking of course the PVPer is going to smack back. In the end most PVPers have nothing against a carebear as long as the carebear accepts that PVP and Piracy are just another way of playing the game. And most people on both sides will be very civil unless the other person starts to smack first. In general if you respect a PVPer's choice of playstyle, we'll respect yours. ________________ DubanFP> Feigning "honor" is just a way to get the other guy to screw himself over, hopefully to your benefit
Matroshka Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:30:00 - [2] This reminds me of the speach in Team America about pussies, ****s, and a-holes -------------
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:32:00 - [3] Even worst, some carebears smack the pirate so much that manage to get the whole carebear corp wardeced. Rule: If your corpmates prefer to fit mining lasers, thou shal not smack in local.
Callente Riveara Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:41:00 - [4] Originally by: Matroshka This reminds me of the speach in Team America about pussies, ****s, and a-holes Thats exactly what I was thinking!
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Matroshka This reminds me of the speach in Team America about pussies, ****s, and a-holes only that one was far more entertaining :) but the ops more or less right, i dont understand the "bear" metality, but i can respect it as long as they understand i will shoot them given the chance, and its up to them to minimize that chance NOT CCP. Recruiting Terrorists
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Matroshka This reminds me of the speach in Team America about pussies, ****s, and a-holes HAHAHAHAHHA!!! warp drive active \| nature vraie
Illyria Ambri Caldari RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:46:00 - [7] Originally by: DubanFP In the end most PVPers have nothing against a carebear as long as the carebear accepts that PVP and Piracy are just another way of playing the game. And most people on both sides will be very civil unless the other person starts to smack first. In general if you respect a PVPer's choice of playstyle, we'll respect yours. Sorry to busrt your bubble there champ but its the other way around.. its the PvPers that need to learn to respect the carebears rather then hunting them ala piracy, before they can get any respect back. PvPers and pirates don't like the fact that a carebear could care less about you and your game so long as it dosent effect them. The carebear could play for 2 years w/o any desire to PvP and is hence looked down upon. You want respect because you fly around and shoot people... Carebears rarely if ever want any part of what you consider game fun and it annoys them. mind you I'm mainly refering to pirates that call themselves PvPers, not actual decent people that don't shoot unarmed ships ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:49:00 - [8] hmmm I wouldnt define pvpers/carebears that way... since pvpers can be carebears carebear defined as someone who wants everything handed to him, be it pvp or pve... blah blah blah... IE: example of a pvping carebear would be one that call for nerfs (instead of adapting) and petition the guy who just beat him...and smack, gotta have the smacking. personally, I think the term carebear should be reserved for those people. but the people who dont like pvp but doesnt do any of the above mentioned. they are just pvers, industrialists. I know TONS of people who "collect shiny things"/Isk. AND pvp when they feel like it.... hence, the line is blurry if you define carebear as anything not pvp... and yeah, carebear originally is a degrading/insult term. so I wouldnt label the pve population as that.. and also to bring the fact that pvpers can be carebears. anywho, have a good day. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:52:00 - [9] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 18:28:06 ... In the end most PVPers have nothing against a carebear as long as the carebear accepts that PVP and Piracy are just another way of playing the game. And most people on both sides will be very civil unless the other person starts to smack first. In general if you respect a PVPer's choice of playstyle, we'll respect yours. I fear this is where your thinking breaks down... let me try to explain... and please understand I am only talking about Combat part of PvP, not the other PvP aspects of Eve. I am a Care bear... I choose not to PvP combat because I do not enjoy it... Thankfully there are a myriad of non combat PvP things to do in Eve. I accept that there are folks that like PvP combat and I never smack talk... well beyond laughing at the wanna-be ore thief that steals a BM from a can (no combat, PvP Mining FTW) I accept and respect the PvP combat lovers choice of play style... I will even try to help them by building and selling ships at a reasonable price... Want to bet if they get a chance they will not support my play style? You see a PvP Combat type player needs a target, they do not ask that target if they are another PvP Combat type, they shoot... as well they should because the target may also be locking on and cranking up the guns... They do not care if that target is a war ship or a hauler, war ships can hurt them back and may drop good mods, haulers have goodies they can sell or use... no thought is ever given to "Is this player a Carebear?"... None of us is as dumb as all of us...
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: DubanFP In the end most PVPers have nothing against a carebear as long as the carebear accepts that PVP and Piracy are just another way of playing the game. And most people on both sides will be very civil unless the other person starts to smack first. In general if you respect a PVPer's choice of playstyle, we'll respect yours. Sorry to busrt your bubble there champ but its the other way around.. its the PvPers that need to learn to respect the carebears rather then hunting them ala piracy, before they can get any respect back. PvPers and pirates don't like the fact that a carebear could care less about you and your game so long as it dosent effect them. The carebear could play for 2 years w/o any desire to PvP and is hence looked down upon. You want respect because you fly around and shoot people... Carebears rarely if ever want any part of what you consider game fun and it annoys them. mind you I'm mainly refering to pirates that call themselves PvPers, not actual decent people that don't shoot unarmed ships I'm sorry but if you don't want to get shot don't go into lowsec unprepared for potential consequences. It's really not hard to avoid getting ganked if you play smart. Ask any pirate and chances are they'll actually help you avoid getting killed in the future "with a few exceptions". What YOU have to realize is they're just playing the game. And that it's up to YOU to avoid gankage. Like i said it's surprizingly easy if you know what you're doing. I personally go through low-sec all the time in stuff I KNOW any pirate would want but i play smart so it's rare for me to run into any serious trouble. This is the kind of attitude that PVPers DON'T respect. OHHH it's not my fault i went into an area that is free to get shot in. Quite frankly, it IS your fault. It works the same way for unarmed PVPers too. I'm a PVPer and if I get ganked it is MY FAULT. You must accept that before YOU deserve respect. ________________ DubanFP> Feigning "honor" is just a way to get the other guy to screw himself over, hopefully to your benefit
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:58:00 - [11] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 03/07/2007 19:00:45 hehe, OP, usually at that point, the pirates complain about how theres no target in low sec =P the whole stay the hell away from it if you dont want to be ganked (as seen on the whining on the forums on several occasions. *search for instas and wtz) at that point, alot of "pvpers" (the real carebears, note the quotes, most real pvpers I know are cool, they go play in 0.0 when bored.) will be calling nerfs to other people's playstyle... is that respect? hehe edit: but the whole "dont log in if you dont want to pvp thing is alittle extreme... CCP acounting wont like that" and btw, you just shown your true colors in that line. it boils down to, Eve is a PVP game.. dont like it? leave. theres no room for pvers/carebears. edit2: btw, please find the dev post if ya gonna quote. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:00:00 - [12] Originally by: DubanFP I'm sorry but if you don't want to get shot don't go into lowsec unprepared for potential consequences. It's really not hard to avoid getting ganked if you play smart. Ask any pirate and chances are they'll actually help you avoid getting killed in the future "with a few exceptions". What YOU have to realize is they're just playing the game. And that it's up to YOU to avoid gankage. Like i said it's surprizingly easy if you know what you're doing. I personally go through low-sec all the time in stuff I KNOW any pirate would want but i play smart so it's rare for me to run into any serious trouble. This is the kind of attitude that PVPers DON'T respect. OHHH it's not my fault i went into an area that is free to get shot in. Quite frankly, it IS your fault. Just going into lowsec in the firstplace IS agreeing to PVP. It works the same way for unarmed PVPers too. I'm a PVPer and if I get ganked it is MY FAULT. You must accept that before YOU deserve respect. I believe even a dev said something along the lines of "All PVP is consentual, if you dont' want to PVP don't log on" Well, let's be fair and apply the full context. Many is the time when someone complains about being ganked in high-security space and the answer is "don't undock if you don't like it, you're not safe anywhere". It's not only lowsec, it's anywhere. SEARCh- we find sites for you!
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:02:00 - [13] I have 1 account and 1 main and I can and regularly fly freighter on it, I have all the industry and invention skills and I make money mission running I don't usually go out of my way to pvp but if there is a threat in local I'll respond or help out (I live in low sec half the time). My last kill was a drake 2 days ago in 0.3 and today I'm hauling in a high sec mining op. The point is that there are lots of middle ground players who don't really fit into either category, or more often fit into both Khaldari KPA are recruiting In-game channel: khanidpublic
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:02:00 - [14] Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 19:02:46 Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: DubanFP I'm sorry but if you don't want to get shot don't go into lowsec unprepared for potential consequences. It's really not hard to avoid getting ganked if you play smart. Ask any pirate and chances are they'll actually help you avoid getting killed in the future "with a few exceptions". What YOU have to realize is they're just playing the game. And that it's up to YOU to avoid gankage. Like i said it's surprizingly easy if you know what you're doing. I personally go through low-sec all the time in stuff I KNOW any pirate would want but i play smart so it's rare for me to run into any serious trouble. This is the kind of attitude that PVPers DON'T respect. OHHH it's not my fault i went into an area that is free to get shot in. Quite frankly, it IS your fault. Just going into lowsec in the firstplace IS agreeing to PVP. It works the same way for unarmed PVPers too. I'm a PVPer and if I get ganked it is MY FAULT. You must accept that before YOU deserve respect. I believe even a dev said something along the lines of "All PVP is consentual, if you dont' want to PVP don't log on" Well, let's be fair and apply the full context. Many is the time when someone complains about being ganked in high-security space and the answer is "don't undock if you don't like it, you're not safe anywhere". It's not only lowsec, it's anywhere. In the end you must realize that a PVPer is just capitalizing on YOUR mistakes. Untill you realize it's YOUR fault you got ganked, not the ganker(s) you wont' get respect. I die all the time, the difference is the fact that I accept it as my fault and don't blame others for it. Even in .5+. Blame the game if you don't like it, NOT the player. ________________ DubanFP> Feigning "honor" is just a way to get the other guy to screw himself over, hopefully to your benefit
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:02:00 - [15] Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: DubanFP In the end most PVPers have nothing against a carebear as long as the carebear accepts that PVP and Piracy are just another way of playing the game. And most people on both sides will be very civil unless the other person starts to smack first. In general if you respect a PVPer's choice of playstyle, we'll respect yours. Sorry to busrt your bubble there champ but its the other way around.. its the PvPers that need to learn to respect the carebears rather then hunting them ala piracy, before they can get any respect back. PvPers and pirates don't like the fact that a carebear could care less about you and your game so long as it dosent effect them. The carebear could play for 2 years w/o any desire to PvP and is hence looked down upon. You want respect because you fly around and shoot people... Carebears rarely if ever want any part of what you consider game fun and it annoys them. mind you I'm mainly refering to pirates that call themselves PvPers, not actual decent people that don't shoot unarmed ships I'm sorry but if you don't want to get shot don't go into lowsec unprepared for potential consequences. It's really not hard to avoid getting ganked if you play smart. Ask any pirate and chances are they'll actually help you avoid getting killed in the future "with a few exceptions". What YOU have to realize is they're just playing the game. And that it's up to YOU to avoid gankage. Like i said it's surprizingly easy if you know what you're doing. I personally go through low-sec all the time in stuff I KNOW any pirate would want but i play smart so it's rare for me to run into any serious trouble. This is the kind of attitude that PVPers DON'T respect. OHHH it's not my fault i went into an area that is free to get shot in. Quite frankly, it IS your fault. It works the same way for unarmed PVPers too. I'm a PVPer and if I get ganked it is MY FAULT. You must accept that before YOU deserve respect. See, you admit the PvP Combat types have no respect for the play style of others and in fact will force their play style on them at every opportunity... Yes, I do not go to Low Sec... this does not mean I will not be harassed, just that I have to make a mistake before the PvP Combat type can force their playstyle on me. None of us is as dumb as all of us...
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Jimer Lins Well, let's be fair and apply the full context. Many is the time when someone complains about being ganked in high-security space and the answer is "don't undock if you don't like it, you're not safe anywhere". It's not only lowsec, it's anywhere. yeah, they ALWAYS blame the victim to justify it. is ALWAYS the victim's fault =P "dont fly what you cant afford to lose, " "dont go in low sec with what you cant afford to lose," " go to npc corp, " "NERF npc corp..." they (the pvp bears, the real pvpers dont care about people who dont want to fight...)are never happy until eve is counterstrike in space. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
bluecheast Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Hamfast I will even try to help them by building and selling ships at a reasonable price... Want to bet if they get a chance they will not support my play style? aren't they then supporting your playstile Ps. hats that talk about *****'s? Makes a man hungry ------------------------- {Experienced} 0.0 Corp Looking For PvP'ers
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:05:00 - [18] Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 19:07:07 Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: DubanFP In the end most PVPers have nothing against a carebear as long as the carebear accepts that PVP and Piracy are just another way of playing the game. And most people on both sides will be very civil unless the other person starts to smack first. In general if you respect a PVPer's choice of playstyle, we'll respect yours. Sorry to busrt your bubble there champ but its the other way around.. its the PvPers that need to learn to respect the carebears rather then hunting them ala piracy, before they can get any respect back. PvPers and pirates don't like the fact that a carebear could care less about you and your game so long as it dosent effect them. The carebear could play for 2 years w/o any desire to PvP and is hence looked down upon. You want respect because you fly around and shoot people... Carebears rarely if ever want any part of what you consider game fun and it annoys them. mind you I'm mainly refering to pirates that call themselves PvPers, not actual decent people that don't shoot unarmed ships I'm sorry but if you don't want to get shot don't go into lowsec unprepared for potential consequences. It's really not hard to avoid getting ganked if you play smart. Ask any pirate and chances are they'll actually help you avoid getting killed in the future "with a few exceptions". What YOU have to realize is they're just playing the game. And that it's up to YOU to avoid gankage. Like i said it's surprizingly easy if you know what you're doing. I personally go through low-sec all the time in stuff I KNOW any pirate would want but i play smart so it's rare for me to run into any serious trouble. This is the kind of attitude that PVPers DON'T respect. OHHH it's not my fault i went into an area that is free to get shot in. Quite frankly, it IS your fault. It works the same way for unarmed PVPers too. I'm a PVPer and if I get ganked it is MY FAULT. You must accept that before YOU deserve respect. See, you admit the PvP Combat types have no respect for the play style of others and in fact will force their play style on them at every opportunity... Yes, I do not go to Low Sec... this does not mean I will not be harassed, just that I have to make a mistake before the PvP Combat type can force their playstyle on me. LOL, i lose ships to pirates just like any carebear. The difference? I accept it as a risk of the game. It's all about the attitude, and how you accept it. You guys "in this thread" won't accept it. You blame others, avoiding blame from yourself, simple as that. Blame the game if you don't like it, NOT the player ________________ DubanFP> Feigning "honor" is just a way to get the other guy to screw himself over, hopefully to your benefit
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:07:00 - [19] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 18:28:06 With a couple misconceptions on the whole PVPer Vs Carebear relationship I figured I might as well try to clear some things up. I might get flamed. I might get applauded. I might get ignored, who knows. Most PVPers think along the lines of "Why would anyone want to ONLY collect isk and be a carebear when PVP is soo much more exciting! I'll just never understand it, but w/e floats your boat". Though many carebears misinterpret this as "You'd have to be an idiot to not PVP" when this is clearly not the case. When a PVPer refers to a carebear in the negative sense he usually means the type of person who gets up on his high horse thinking he's so much better then all these "stupid pirates". Not the every day "I'd rather not PVP, but I accept that as just another playstyle" Carebear. Most PVPers will be friendly in local and even help other players avoid falling into the same trap again. However if you're the kind of carebear that gets up on his "high-horse" and start smacking of course the PVPer is going to smack back. In the end most PVPers have nothing against a carebear as long as the carebear accepts that PVP and Piracy are just another way of playing the game. And most people on both sides will be very civil unless the other person starts to smack first. In general if you respect a PVPer's choice of playstyle, we'll respect yours. You fail to mention that a pvper can also be a carebear. 4/10 for researching the topic.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:08:00 - [20] Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: DubanFP I'm sorry but if you don't want to get shot don't go into lowsec unprepared for potential consequences. It's really not hard to avoid getting ganked if you play smart. Ask any pirate and chances are they'll actually help you avoid getting killed in the future "with a few exceptions". What YOU have to realize is they're just playing the game. And that it's up to YOU to avoid gankage. Like i said it's surprizingly easy if you know what you're doing. I personally go through low-sec all the time in stuff I KNOW any pirate would want but i play smart so it's rare for me to run into any serious trouble. This is the kind of attitude that PVPers DON'T respect. OHHH it's not my fault i went into an area that is free to get shot in. Quite frankly, it IS your fault. Just going into lowsec in the firstplace IS agreeing to PVP. It works the same way for unarmed PVPers too. I'm a PVPer and if I get ganked it is MY FAULT. You must accept that before YOU deserve respect. I believe even a dev said something along the lines of "All PVP is consentual, if you dont' want to PVP don't log on" Well, let's be fair and apply the full context. Many is the time when someone complains about being ganked in high-security space and the answer is "don't undock if you don't like it, you're not safe anywhere". It's not only lowsec, it's anywhere. In the end you must realize that a PVPer is just capitalizing on YOUR mistakes. Untill you realize it's YOUR fault you got ganked, not the ganker(s) you wont' get respect. I die all the time, the difference is the fact that I accept it as my fault and don't blame others for it. Even in .5+. That seems a bit excessive as a perspective. It's possible to be attacked in highsec without having done anything wrong or even made any mistakes, unless you classify "undocking" as a mistake (and yes, many people do). Yes, playing smart keeps you safer. But no matter how smart or how good you are, you'll eventually get nailed. That's just the way it goes, you take a risk doing anything in this game. I'm not sure it's useful to say it's always your own fault when something goes wrong. Sometimes things go wrong. It's wrong to ask who's at fault. The better question is this: what did you learn? SEARCh- we find sites for you!
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:09:00 - [21] Originally by: DubanFP LOL, i lose ships to pirates just like any carebear. The difference? I accept it as a risk of the game. Blame the game if you don't like it, NOT the player and birds go Tweet. Eve is a sandbox, theres things in for everybody, you can kick sand in people's face, but yeah... thats NOT ALL eve is... PS: pvers are not the only one that can be carebears. carebears are the whiner, be it pve or pvp.. once again, labeling the whole pve population as carebears doesnt help your argument. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:10:00 - [22] Originally by: bluecheast Originally by: Hamfast I will even try to help them by building and selling ships at a reasonable price... Want to bet if they get a chance they will not support my play style? aren't they then supporting your playstile In regards to buying ships that I build they are, but this is a thread about PvP Combat and the fallacy that people who enjoy the PvP combat aspects of this game will respect those of us that do not enjoy it by allowing us to play without ever firing a shot at another player or being fired on by one. None of us is as dumb as all of us...
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:11:00 - [23] Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 19:13:06 Originally by: Jimer Lins That seems a bit excessive as a perspective. It's possible to be attacked in highsec without having done anything wrong or even made any mistakes, unless you classify "undocking" as a mistake (and yes, many people do). Now that YOU know this you have no excuse for risking something you cannot easily replace correct? Just the same I have no excuse for losing something i can't easily replace Correct? Blaming the other person in ANY sport/game is considered having a bad attitude. What makes EVE so different? It's as simple as that. Blaming others is simply avoiding blame from yourself. ________________ DubanFP> Feigning "honor" is just a way to get the other guy to screw himself over, hopefully to your benefit
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:13:00 - [24] As for "smack talk", I think it is a perfectly valid tactic. If you know you can insense your opponent into a rash move using psycological tactics, including messages in local, then all the better. However, my experience is that more often than not, the enemy I really want to just go away, not come back again and again to harass me, so smack isn't relly a good idea. Also if you practice it you can be tempted into answering back when someone tries it on you, which is again silly and more likely to encourage whoever. And also you have to be good with words and practiced at it and you might not always get the desired effect Khaldari KPA are recruiting In-game channel: khanidpublic
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:15:00 - [25] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 19:11:46 Originally by: Jimer Lins That seems a bit excessive as a perspective. It's possible to be attacked in highsec without having done anything wrong or even made any mistakes, unless you classify "undocking" as a mistake (and yes, many people do). Now that YOU know this you have no excuse for risking something you cannot easily replace correct? Just the same I have no excuse for losing something i can't easily replace Correct? Blaming the other person in ANY sport/game is considered having a bad attitude. What makes EVE so different? Eve is different in that the loss is VERY real/painful. if I lose to you in chess, I didnt lose anything, if I lose to a gank squard in a BS, even cheaply fitted, is 30 mill down the drain. for a causal player, that can be 2 weeks of playing. (*note: yes yes, I know some people WILL brag about how they make 30 mill an hour, but MOST PEOPLE DONT) -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Petrothian Tong Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 03/07/2007 19:15:07 Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 19:11:46 Originally by: Jimer Lins That seems a bit excessive as a perspective. It's possible to be attacked in highsec without having done anything wrong or even made any mistakes, unless you classify "undocking" as a mistake (and yes, many people do). Now that YOU know this you have no excuse for risking something you cannot easily replace correct? Just the same I have no excuse for losing something i can't easily replace Correct? Blaming the other person in ANY sport/game is considered having a bad attitude. What makes EVE so different? Eve is different in that the loss is VERY real/painful. if I lose to you in chess, I didnt lose anything, if I lose to a gank squard in a BS, even cheaply fitted, is 30 mill down the drain. for a causal player, that can be 2 weeks of playing. (*note: yes yes, I know some people WILL brag about how they make 30 mill an hour, but MOST PEOPLE DONT) and yeah, if Eve is counterstrike in space, then sure, your argument stands, but it hurts in eve to die.. (even with insure) hence why there are people who dont like pvp, dont go to low sec, and wont pvp.. smacking those people are a bad taste. You must realize, all this changes nothing as PVPers are just playing the game as it was meant to be played. And PVPers take the same losses as carebears. Often having to take BIGGER risks just to get the same effect. Also i would like to compliment you for at least remaining civil despite our different attitudes. ________________ DubanFP> Feigning "honor" is just a way to get the other guy to screw himself over, hopefully to your benefit
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:20:00 - [27] Going back to your original post... Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 03/07/2007 18:28:06 In general if you respect a PVPer's choice of playstyle, we'll respect yours. To show your respect for my play style, you would have to be willing to let me play that way... as you freely admit that you will not (because I must realize that you have a valid play style and it's all my fault that you are able to play that way) you will force your play style on me. It has nothing to do with blame, nothing to do with fault... it has to do with reality... or would that be Eveality... where you can use any excuse you wish to do what you wish, blame who you want to justify what you did and thus feel all warm and fuzzy inside... None of us is as dumb as all of us...
Loretta Tong	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:21:00 - [28] Edited by: Loretta Tong on 03/07/2007 19:21:35 Originally by: DubanFP You must realize, all this changes nothing as PVPers are just playing the game as it was meant to be played. And PVPers take the same losses as carebears. Often having to take BIGGER risks just to get the same effect. Also i would like to compliment you for at least remaining civil despite our different attitudes. true, but it goes back to defining, What is eve? how is eve meant to be played. I still have the old original box.. and one of the lines on it goes along the lines of. be what you want to be. hence Eve has been more of a sandbox than counterstrike in space. after all, if we are meant to have a free for all, why do we have 0.0/low/high? yes, is me.. woops posted on alt number 3
Illyria Ambri Caldari RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:23:00 - [29] Originally by: DubanFP What YOU have to realize is they're just playing the game. And that it's up to YOU to avoid gankage. Like i said it's surprizingly easy if you know what you're doing. I personally go through low-sec all the time in stuff I KNOW any pirate would want but i play smart so it's rare for me to run into any serious trouble. This is the kind of attitude that PVPers DON'T respect. OHHH it's not my fault i went into an area that is free to get shot in. Quite frankly, it IS your fault. Just going into lowsec in the firstplace IS agreeing to PVP. It works the same way for unarmed PVPers too. I'm a PVPer and if I get ganked it is MY FAULT. You must accept that before YOU deserve respect. I believe even a dev said something along the lines of "All PVP is consentual, if you dont' want to PVP don't log on". In the end you must realize that a PVPer is just capitalizing on YOUR mistakes. Untill you realize it's YOUR fault you got ganked, not the ganker(s) you wont' get respect. I die all the time, the difference is the fact that I accept it as my fault and don't blame others for it. I'm sorry.. maybe I should point out.. I'm not a carebear and am well aware of how to travel in EVE as I live in 0.0 myself.. and believe me.. travel isn't as exciting untill you are flying a new raven down the lowsec-0.0 pipe without any mods.. or a brand new manticore either. I'm quite aware of the risk I take in flying unarmed and expensive ships from lowsec to 0.0 :) (and no I will not tell anyone when I do that :P) But I do understand the carebear playstyle and desire to be left alone. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:24:00 - [30] your more than welcome to choose to avoid combat as your play style... problem is you cant always in this game, and thats i think were the real aggument between you is comming from. Because you think we (pvpers) should not shoot as you have chosen to avoid combat, we think if you give us the choice to (even undocking) why the hell not. That its not respecting your play style. There is always an element of risk in this game, there is always pvp. Simply choosing to avoide it is all well and good, i dont understand it even a little bit, but go for it, if you mannage to never loose a ship all the power too you. But understand pvpers are looking for that one moment where you slip up and we get to shoot. Its just how the game works, and does not mean we respect your choice or skills at avoiding combat. Recruiting Terrorists

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