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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
   |
Posted - 2007.07.04 02:23:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS
Edited by: JADE DRAG0NESS on 04/07/2007 02:20:43
Well like you say we can speculate tll the sun goes down in the end tho we have very little info on this subject so specuation is a bit silly right now.
We can hope tho that CCP listens to ower sujestions tho in the forums. And that this will grow into a trully great addition to the game.
Concerning the packet sendings from the joystick controll im sure CCP will take that into account when they program things. The past has shown they are very good at programming. And the problem of people running around will no doubt be addressed in the ballancing phase.
Hopefully...
I like it I think, if it is as you suggested.
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Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here. |
Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 02:24:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Plutoinum
Edited by: Plutoinum on 03/07/2007 23:34:09
You usually don't ussue multiple commands like that per second
Well if you want to get technical, your ship is piloted by your brain which can preform billions of tasks at once...
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 02:27:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Plutoinum
Edited by: Plutoinum on 03/07/2007 23:34:09
You usually don't ussue multiple commands like that per second
Well if you want to get technical, your ship is piloted by your brain which can preform billions of tasks at once...
Oi, don't bring reasonable logic into it here!!
On a serious note, that is exactly one of my problems though, the amount of packets sent and have to be processed.
However if they are on a different server again, well all the better or ok about it.
----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here. |
Streetrip
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.04 02:37:00 -
[64]
y'know at first i was in joy of such an idea...then starting to read thama's arguements and i didn't even need to read it all, i'm gonna agree with it. It's a nice fantasy and add's to the whole hot shot flying ace role play. But seriously, EVE has no need for it. Why have fixed cannons when you can have turrets on gyros? real life navies have figured it out. being able to shoot in a direction seperate to your line of motion is very beneficial. having a single line of fire is like taking a step back. RP wise, not gonna work. The only reason why fighter plane's have them is because having a firing system like that would just be way too hard. missiles act as a deploy then ignition usually.
Also what can a 80mm autocannon round on a fighter do on a ships system that a 1400mm round on a BS cant do?
play wise. Keeping it how it is doesn't "break" anything. adding it could and thats just not a great deal. It adds a new aspect to eve, however is it really even implementable? EVE can barely cope with 200 clients pointing and clicking, how about constant information updates on pitch/yaw/roll/weapon fire? not gonna happen. As a mini-game perhaps say for like, y'know archaeology if your going into an asteroid and you use a remote drone to do your work, maybe limited firing ability or just pure skill in flying then some joyous mining? Adding joystick PvPing will mean a change in the EVE design as well i would imagine. Right now it's mathematic calculations that work out whether you'll get hit and by how hard. Changing that for a twitch players means first changing the mathematics into physical movement and a whole new physical model. (which again, the server probably wont be able to handle) this makes EVE less of a strategy game by far because, why would you bother training up for that extra 5% of turret tracking when your opponent just has that extra bit of luck anyways? nubtards ahoy, the SP devoted characters get rewarded with nada.
Any real joystick capability should be limited. Also if some of you haven't heard already, Jumpgate: Evolution recently got announced to be in the works!
http://www.jumpgate-evolution.com/
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 02:42:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Streetrip
y'know at first i was in joy of such an idea...then starting to read thama's arguements and i didn't even need to read it all, i'm gonna agree with it. It's a nice fantasy and add's to the whole hot shot flying ace role play. But seriously, EVE has no need for it. Why have fixed cannons when you can have turrets on gyros? real life navies have figured it out. being able to shoot in a direction seperate to your line of motion is very beneficial. having a single line of fire is like taking a step back. RP wise, not gonna work. The only reason why fighter plane's have them is because having a firing system like that would just be way too hard. missiles act as a deploy then ignition usually.
Also what can a 80mm autocannon round on a fighter do on a ships system that a 1400mm round on a BS cant do?
play wise. Keeping it how it is doesn't "break" anything. adding it could and thats just not a great deal. It adds a new aspect to eve, however is it really even implementable? EVE can barely cope with 200 clients pointing and clicking, how about constant information updates on pitch/yaw/roll/weapon fire? not gonna happen. As a mini-game perhaps say for like, y'know archaeology if your going into an asteroid and you use a remote drone to do your work, maybe limited firing ability or just pure skill in flying then some joyous mining? Adding joystick PvPing will mean a change in the EVE design as well i would imagine. Right now it's mathematic calculations that work out whether you'll get hit and by how hard. Changing that for a twitch players means first changing the mathematics into physical movement and a whole new physical model. (which again, the server probably wont be able to handle) this makes EVE less of a strategy game by far because, why would you bother training up for that extra 5% of turret tracking when your opponent just has that extra bit of luck anyways? nubtards ahoy, the SP devoted characters get rewarded with nada.
Any real joystick capability should be limited. Also if some of you haven't heard already, Jumpgate: Evolution recently got announced to be in the works!
http://www.jumpgate-evolution.com/
That was unexpected 
I appreciate the comments and support as such. Mind you, if it does play out that it is just in dungeons etc, I think it might be good for some.... just not myself...
Here's hoping to the seperate server part / its own cluster etc.
----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here. |
ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 02:54:00 -
[66]
This was a request from a friend of mine;
Originally by: Jacinta Worth
I'll tell you my feeling on this. Can't post on Eve-O because of stupid router problems but will post here...
The ONE THING that turned me off this game when I first heard about it was the impression that it was joy-stick based space-flight. Don't ask me where I got the impression; probably from games like wing commander and X. Regardless, I didn't like the idea of having to deal with a bunch of guys with faster connections than me owning me with super flight skills with a joystick. I would have joined 6 months earlier if I'd known the controls were mouse based.
Additionally, I LOVE the tactical feeling it gives to combat: particularly with bigger ships. Having joystick flight with the smaller frigates and faster cruisers might be acceptable but would never sit well with me flying anything larger than that. I dislike Star Trek, but I really do like the idea of being on a bridge giving orders about what the ship must do and that's how I feel when I play Eve now. Joystick flight would ruin that for me.
Wish I could post this on Eve-O tbh. Not that anyone there would care but it'd be nice to make my opinion known.
Fly safe
Jacinta
----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here. |
Rhoadie
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Posted - 2007.07.04 03:14:00 -
[67]
Personally I read the statement "joystick-based combat inside asteroid dungeons" as to mean that joystick controlled flight would be in certain areas "dungeons" , I would guess it would be up to the pilot to make the choice to enter these areas ? .
I would also credit CCP with the intelligence to create ships with joystick control that would actually be enjoyable to fly with a joystick ( after all they have created a multi million $/ú game that has endured so you have to credit them with some intelligence ).
Jumpgate with eve graphics and investment , bring it on ,,,, please , pretty please
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 03:22:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Rhoadie
Personally I read the statement "joystick-based combat inside asteroid dungeons" as to mean that joystick controlled flight would be in certain areas "dungeons" , I would guess it would be up to the pilot to make the choice to enter these areas ? .
I would also credit CCP with the intelligence to create ships with joystick control that would actually be enjoyable to fly with a joystick ( after all they have created a multi million $/ú game that has endured so you have to credit them with some intelligence ).
Jumpgate with eve graphics and investment , bring it on ,,,, please , pretty please
As said, if it is on its own server cluster or such fine I got no problem with that, but same cluster same lag, it will die quicker than a noob in a 0.0 gatecamp.
----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here. |
Spenz
Gallente
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 05:27:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Spenz on 04/07/2007 05:26:43
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
On a side not to this, related but different, there is a twitch based space game, and you could use it with a joystick.
Go onto steam and download eternal silence. Twitch based spaceflight game, with walking in stations.
What more could you ask for? Just please do not turn Eve into another Counterstrike in space.
Translation: Don't change my game.. I dont want to adapt
Yes that's right, I don't want to see Eve change or "dumbed down".I feel it would be too much of a change and a fundamental change in the mechanics of the game I really do not want to see. If the Devs want to really do this fine np, just don't expect me to live with it. I will find something else, possibly.
Btw if any one says go back to wow, well you have screwed yourself over, eve is the first and last mmorpg I will ever play. Period.
Dude....you double click in space and press F1-F8.....you CANT get any DUMBER than that. Get off your high horse. If you dont want to learn to fly then they will probably accomodate you somehow. Meanwhile I will be weaving around your fire shooting your drones and there wont be a thing you can do about it because YOU decided not to adapt because it was BENEATH you.
Sheesh
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 05:46:00 -
[70]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 04/07/2007 05:47:36
um... how would changing it form clicking a direction and space and pressing the arrow key change anything?
who said ANYTHING about FPS?
I see no reason to not have manual movement
as it does the same thing it does now but things wouldn't b able to get in the way
you would still have to target
and still have to activate guns
and large lagy battles would still be stay still and shoot
even battleships could use this movement
you would jsut have to hold left for a LONG TIME to turn
see eve has different turning speeds for ships
all this would do is allow for manual control over transversal velocity
and make the game harder I guess
but no one has said anything about FPS
and it will never be an FPS
it's EvE, ad joystick control would only change the way you change your direction
you wouldn't be able to twich move if your ship can only turn so fast.
now that my rant is done, If they DO make it point and shoot
I will have to murder someone
-----------------------------------
I'm working my way through college
target CCP |
Gojyu
Gallente
Ever Flow
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.04 05:51:00 -
[71]
Although I might be missing something, how is joystick combat "dumbing down" eve. In it's current form, a battle would go something like this:
"Player x is primary"
/thinks to self "Ok, action time, gotta use my brains... control click that guy.... f1, f2, f3. Damn it! what comes next? Think man, think! Aha! f4. Ok, time to get a coffee
/player returns
Ha! you're dead, I beat you with my vastly superior intellect and tactical skills!
Joystick combat and some fast paced action might bring a little skill and thought back into the game, I'm all for it.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.04 05:54:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Gojyu
Although I might be missing something, how is joystick combat "dumbing down" eve. In it's current form, a battle would go something like this:
"Player x is primary"
/thinks to self "Ok, action time, gotta use my brains... control click that guy.... f1, f2, f3. Damn it! what comes next? Think man, think! Aha! f4. Ok, time to get a coffee
/player returns
Ha! you're dead, I beat you with my vastly superior intellect and tactical skills!
Joystick combat and some fast paced action might bring a little skill and thought back into the game, I'm all for it.
I agree completely
just remembe that even in afrigate you are not firing the guns yourself. A computer or a hand full od crew is doing it.
CCP has said numerous times, if it could happen in space. they want to make ti possible. so thinking this over more if a fighters does have one person NPC flying around shooting manuals, then you should be able to get into a frighter and point and shoot.
I can't wait for anything
-----------------------------------
I'm working my way through college
target CCP |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.07.04 06:00:00 -
[73]
Joysticks are so 80's. 
Besides, Nathan is just mentioning some ideas he has. What he is saying is that anything is possible for future Eve expansions, since very few things (except maybe dancing) is out of place in a global persistent universe.
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 06:14:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Joysticks are so 80's.
Besides, Nathan is just mentioning some ideas he has. What he is saying is that anything is possible for future Eve expansions, since very few things (except maybe dancing) is out of place in a global persistent universe.
I want to do a gallent hippy dance
-----------------------------------
I'm working my way through college
target CCP |
Deegan Malfroy
Amarr
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 06:27:00 -
[75]
let me handle this thama.. heh...
there are vast vast vast vast vast amounts of things that COULD be done in space.. and that mentality of CCP to attempt to implement it all is ... brave. There are several "bad" things that they could potentially do that fall under "things that could be done".
Things one finds out soon after starting eve:
1. Eve isn't good for "power gamers" because it takes real time to skill up.
2. Eve has a steep learning curve.
3. Eve doesn't lend itself to those needing instant gratification.
and sad, but true: #4. Eve lends itself to some large E-peen.
1-3. are beautiful things!!!!! If you're a newish guy starting in eve?... sit the **** down and go through the steps and pay your dues.. it's like when children want to be adults before it's time...
Also.. there's a difference between embracing change.. and "adapting" to what sounds like a bad idea for a fundemental style of play in this greatest game on Earth. I wouldn't want ANYONE to be able to fly like that in EVE.. not you.. and not I. Eve has been great being an "underground" game.. more subscriptions is fine... but Eve should remain a game for the elite anyway. If you're able to play it and enjoy it, then props for being part of the elite! let us not make it easy for even the average high schooler to be playing eve.
EVE IS THAT SPECIAL!
.. that is all.
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Jokastis
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Posted - 2007.07.04 06:38:00 -
[76]
"joystick-based combat inside asteroid dungeons"
You guys freak out way too quickly.
"joystick-based combat inside asteroid dungeons"
He is suggesting that you can only use a "Joystick" inside this area, and that everywhere else will be the same old double-click EVE.
They didn't say anything about Battleships, Cruisers, Fighters, or the ship they would use.
*Same idea as Not being able to use MWD in complex.... you can oppositely only use a joystick inside the dungeon.
It's right there in the text.
Don't Crap your pants just yet.
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Nargo Nextit
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.04 06:38:00 -
[77]
I would be intrested to know how we could use joysticks in the slideshow battles that ive taken part in.
Before anything like this could be introduced the whole game needs to be rewritten
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flearider
Minmatar
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.07.04 06:45:00 -
[78]
if they can't get the lag out of eve atm how are you going to fly with a joystick ??
really 40 man gangs flying with a joystick ..frame by frame it would be impossible .
before they start to think about anything new lets spend time and money fixing the things that are wrong now 
and if it comes down to it i could just leave and so many others would go to ..
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Cryptic Power
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Posted - 2007.07.04 06:54:00 -
[79]
Bad idea i think... If it's not Broken don't try to fix it? |
Qolde
Minmatar
Guardian Heroes Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.04 07:33:00 -
[80]
I think it would be awesome, as long as joystick users couldn't maneuver any better than the best mouse user, and couldn't do anything that you couldn't do with the mouse and keyboard.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.04 07:44:00 -
[81]
I would support this feature for smaller ships (think frigs and fighters) if it included navigation only, to control transversal, orbit transitions and so on in a much better way. It wouldn't be counterstrike, it would only add more depth to combat with small craft.
------
--Don't get saucy with me Bernaise!-- |
Filthy Pierre
Gallente
Laughing Fox Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.04 07:45:00 -
[82]
Interesting thread!
EVE'll never be a twitch game - not with the way it handles large fleets or graphics with everything set to max. It'd take a huge amount of rejiggering to make it perform like a Team Fortress environment would. (And given the numbers you see in a fleet engagement I figger even the very best code would probably blow chunks and stagger some...)
So smooth, responsive joystick-controlled flight is highly unlikely to ever become a concern in the EVE environment.
I know what two changes I wouldn't mind seeing in the EVE space environment -
1) It's SPACE, Jim! It's a three dimensional environment. It drives me nuts how everything returns to the same vertical axis orientation and how everything tends to happen on the same vast plane. Why can't it be a true 360 environment? It'd open up all kinds of new gameplay strategies. (See 'Descent' for an insanely good example of a 360 environment!)
2) Ya know, it'd be nice to have company onboard. Why couldn't a ship have a pilot, gunner and engineer/mechanic/EW officer for example in the larger ship ranges? Would make for some very interesting changes in the way people choose to rack up SPs. Be nice to see EVE try it out - they could always roll it back if it made giant sucking noises...
FP
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Lord Timelord
Artifex Dynamics
New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.04 08:26:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Shiela
The system for Carrier pilots now...
Get in a fast frig and i will assign you some fighters from my POS over here, you should be able to take down a few cruisers before you die.
The system for carrier pilots of the future...
You guys get IN some fighters and actually risk something, with the additional bonus of being able to do much more damage than a remote control drone.
That, quite honestly. Is the hottest damn idea for Fighters yet!
I've also always wanted to be physically able to "dock" inside a carrier like a starbase. Ride in the belly of the whale, so to speak. It would be awesome to dock inside a carrier, the carrier jumps into a hostile system, and you undock from the carrier to raise hell with the hostile forces. If Fighters alone could be player controlled via joystick, it would bring a whole new dimension to their usage! 
That would have a HUGE cool factor!!! 
__________
My Corporation's Website
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Spenz
Gallente
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 08:29:00 -
[84]
What would really rock FOR ME (maybe not for everyone else) is if they made combat orient-dependant, like nexus. Your turrets have firing arcs, and your ship needs to maneuver in position to bring them to bear. Likewise your ship needs to perform combat evasion to prevent your turrets from being exposed for too long lest they get taken out.
Pipe dream I know but it certainly would make eve combat tactical (any notion that it is tactical atm is an illusion. Transversal is really the only tactical element, which isnt enough to warrant calling eve combat 'tactical')
For me Nexus was the epitome of multicrew ship combat, and the interface and handling was done fairly similar to eve, but Im just going off tangent now. Im excited about joysticks because it will give me a more hands on approach to ship navigation and combat, even if it is just for roid fights.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
The Mantra
Caldari
Knights of Sovereignty
United Corporations of Eve
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 10:57:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Cryptic Power
Bad idea i think... If it's not Broken don't try to fix it?
But, you must admit, joystick control would be far more interesting than hitting 'approach..' and F1-F8.
Hell, getting something fast and flying missions all day would even be fun :)
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MasterDecoy
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 11:59:00 -
[86]
meh.... doesn't bother me so much. plus, i think it was an off-the-cuff remark.
Quote:
anything you can imagine inside space is an opportunity for expansion
see? so im not getting my panties in a knot for it.
and thama, go back to work!
Originally by: Gan Dalf
What's going on? Why is TQ down? Who is "GMT"? What's 'Reality', will it hurt?
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Dano Katiria
adeptus gattacus
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.04 12:03:00 -
[87]
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 03/07/2007 22:25:41
It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.
Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.
I hate it.
EDIT; P.s. What the hell happened to having to use your damn loaf to fight rather than have somebody with lightning reflexes win? Tactical > > > > Twitch.
Omg, just realized, imagine Eve Devs having to make some kind of anti-bot program to stop all the damn "Flight-bot 200564", "You will never get hit again". **** off.
QFT, if u want joystick combat go play freelancer or some such
eve is great because it is NOT a twich game, if it was i would play it as much as i do CS which is not much, and even less due to cost
what you joystick maniacs are asking for is a different game, totaly different, and i'm sure it would be fun but it would NOT be eve
Being nice is for ugly people - Falazi |
Min Herrick
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Posted - 2007.07.04 12:35:00 -
[88]
It would be an awesome addition without a doubt but problematic in the lag stakes and a tiny bit redundant as all you would need to do to beat a twitch fighter is wait for them to go on another attack run and web/splatter them across space.
In short it's awesome and I want it but it wouldn't be that feasible probably.
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.04 12:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Aewaytor
Fighter Squadron's ahoy!
Do it!
(I know the link has been posted already, but proper joystick dog fighting like X-Wing would make me not needing to buy another game again )
/signed in theory but it would kill the netcode. Lag ahoy :(
But it would be soooooo kewl especially if they'd also add planetary flight.
Darn, now you made me re-install Wing Commander 
--
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.07.04 13:06:00 -
[90]
Inside dungeons or whatever, fine. As long as they get their own node for all the pointless lag they'll create.
Planetary flight? Allow the joystickers down there, but allow traditional ships too. They are too big and unwieldy to do anything other than hover in the atmosphere anyway, while the joystick ships could actually drop down to skyscraper level and do their leet-kiddy-im-luke-skywalker thing.
People saying to adapt to what newer players expect need to STFU. By that logic if an overwhelming number people join expecting WoW in space, EVE should actually become WoW in space? Umm, no.
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