Quote:

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Populating immense asteroids with an industrial or pirate outpost, joystick-based combat inside asteroid dungeons, hostile environments to build up an industrial base to exploit itæs resources ù anything you can imagine inside space is an opportunity for expansion.

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Originally by: Shiela

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Sounds cool, this is what I thought Eve was when I heard about it... I wasnt expecting point and click combat, but have adjusted.

While I do enjoy targetting mulitple ships and firing turrets off of a Battleship using a mouse... I think manning a fighter craft and laying fire down using a joystick and actual piloting skills would be a breath of fresh air.

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Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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If EVE where to be another Joystick game, I doubt I would stay around for long. I like the strategic planning behind the ship controls. And I hate anything that would breach that. Besides, there are enough FPS games out there as it is. EVE controls are FINE as they are!

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Originally by: Aewaytor

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Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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If EVE where to be another Joystick game, I doubt I would stay around for long. I like the strategic planning behind the ship controls. And I hate anything that would breach that. Besides, there are enough FPS games out there as it is. EVE controls are FINE as they are!

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If you love the tactical grace of battling with Eve's larger ships, think of the tricks you could do with Teamspeak controlled drones?

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Originally by: Dei

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Problem is whether the pilot actually fires the guns, or whether the guns fire themselves (like now) and all the pilot does is try to dodge missles and navigate around the battlefield.

Either way, the way in which CCP have made ships pod pilotted enables this sort of thing to be implemented without changing any background information.

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Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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If EVE were to be another Joystick game, I doubt I would stay around for long. I like the strategic planning behind the ship controls. And I hate anything that would breach that. Besides, there are enough FPS games out there as it is. EVE controls are FINE as they are!

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 03/07/2007 22:25:41
It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.

Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.

I hate it.

EDIT; P.s. What the hell happened to having to use your damn loaf to fight rather than have somebody with lightning reflexes win? Tactical > > > > Twitch.

Omg, just realized, imagine Eve Devs having to make some kind of anti-bot program to stop all the damn "Flight-bot 200564", "You will never get hit again". **** off.

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Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 03/07/2007 22:25:41
It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.

Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.

I hate it.

EDIT; P.s. What the hell happened to having to use your damn loaf to fight rather than have somebody with lightning reflexes win? Tactical > > > > Twitch.

Omg, just realized, imagine Eve Devs having to make some kind of anti-bot program to stop all the damn "Flight-bot 200564", "You will never get hit again". **** off.

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Talk about arogant. Anyway how else would people navigate inside asteroids and on planets hmmm.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.

Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.

I hate it.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 03/07/2007 22:25:41
It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.

Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.

I hate it.

EDIT; P.s. What the hell happened to having to use your damn loaf to fight rather than have somebody with lightning reflexes win? Tactical > > > > Twitch.

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Originally by: Kuseka Adama

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.

Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.

I hate it.

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*punches in face*

Honestly THINK FOR A SECOND

At best you have Voyage century like ship combat except in 3 dimensions where you at times never even physically see the ships involved! There is no such thing as evasive manuvers you stand there and get hit or you move too fast to even be touched. There is quite frankly NOTHING IN BETWEEN. You cant juke at the last second to avoid a rail gun shot you cant jive at the last second to force a missle to miss there is no gray area and it annoys the hell out of people!

Myself included and trust me i LOVE the RTS perspective these battles tend to give. But i honestly got that out of a mechwarrior game too albeit at a far higher speed. And hell i am not even recommending it on anything above a damned FRIGATE! You can not change course properly during combat in this game without taking serious risks or constant clicking and risking a misclick. You are stuck on a damned ramjet and i KNOW that isnt how the smaller craft are supposed to operate. I frigates flying circles around my larger ships in ratting but also they constantly seem to be able to change their orbits. Now how the heck is that? If not by direct manipulation then by what? Are their computers so powerful their manuvering thrusters so precise that its capable of this?

Let the ships that were designed to outmanuver BE ABLE TO DO IT!

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Originally by: Aewaytor

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 03/07/2007 22:25:41
It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.

Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.

I hate it.

EDIT; P.s. What the hell happened to having to use your damn loaf to fight rather than have somebody with lightning reflexes win? Tactical > > > > Twitch.

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I would guess the devs would balance and playtest it first. If it didn't work, they wouldn't put it in.

If this would encourage more people to join and pay to play the game, then good. I don't see the problem with that.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 03/07/2007 22:25:41
It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.

Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.

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Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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This very subject was discussed a long time ago and CCP (IIRC) poo pood the idea themselves.

They said "Eve is not designed to be a twitch game, and never will be".

I cannot find the original now damn.

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They appear to have changed their minds and adapted to the masses in order to cash in on that portion of the market.. Umm how dare they try to get more money by enticing new players with a new form of flight model. The nerve..

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The MMO Gamer: What is the future of EVE? Will you keep expanding the game into other regions or are there other ways for you to broaden the game and its reach?

Nathan Richardsson: We have a number of ways to expand EVE, first and foremost is öinwardsô, which is our current strategy. There are so many locations within EVE which you canæt interact fully with yet and thatæs where weære heading first. Weære now building environments inside space stations with corporate offices and headquarters, going into the ships with a CaptainÆs Quarter, player starbases where they could control its defenses and other corporate infrastructure.

Further out, weære seeing planets playing a pivotal role in the future of EVE. The industrial, exploratory and warfare opportunities there, which tie heavily into the economic fabric of EV,E are immense. Itæs all player controlled; thatæs the beauty of it. WeÆre creating tools and a landscape with resources and itæs up to the pilots to utilize that to their advantage and build an empire.

Working with celestial environments is also an area for expansion. Populating immense asteroids with an industrial or pirate outpost, joystick-based combat inside asteroid dungeons, hostile environments to build up an industrial base to exploit itæs resources ù anything you can imagine inside space is an opportunity for expansion.

We also have space itself to work with through outwards expansion. Space is endless and we still donæt know whatæs out there, whatæs on the other side of the EVE gate nor what happened to Earth and itæs civilization. We donæt know what the Jovian race have been up to, closed off in their own section of space. Its outer boundaries unknown to us.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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I'm going to coin the term now before anyone else can. Lagstick(tm)

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Don't tell me you want yet more lag added to the game and whiners.

Christ imagine the damn petition queues. Months of work if not years. "WAAH WAHH, he popped my frigate but teh lagz killed it, he shouldn't have hit me"

Bleugh I feel sick just from thinking about it.

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Originally by: Aewaytor

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Don't tell me you want yet more lag added to the game and whiners.

Christ imagine the damn petition queues. Months of work if not years. "WAAH WAHH, he popped my frigate but teh lagz killed it, he shouldn't have hit me"

Bleugh I feel sick just from thinking about it.

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I would say that it'd be more like a game within a game. People could choose during character creation to become a fighter pilot and it'd probably start off with instanced NPC missions being listed for them in station and then simply filling the slots required. As the faction wars start being introduced, the higher level fighter missions would be PvP.

Fighter Pilots wouldn't be able to undock themselves from the station until they had trained for frigates,

For level 5+ missions, you can choose to have these pilots join you. You wouldn't have to speak to them - just tell them what to kill

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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On a side not to this, related but different, there is a twitch based space game, and you could use it with a joystick.

Go onto steam and download eternal silence. Twitch based spaceflight game, with walking in stations.

What more could you ask for? Just please do not turn Eve into another Counterstrike in space.

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Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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On a side not to this, related but different, there is a twitch based space game, and you could use it with a joystick.

Go onto steam and download eternal silence. Twitch based spaceflight game, with walking in stations.

What more could you ask for? Just please do not turn Eve into another Counterstrike in space.

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Translation: Don't change my game.. I dont want to adapt

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Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn

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Can you imagine orbiting a gate for 3 hours and having to use a joystick to do it?

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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you people make me question the sanity of the human race sometimes

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Originally by: Naervic

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I can see where Gebir is coming from. Combat... Well I don't think it should become twitch, now maneuverability... Thats a different story. One of my friends tried this game for a few days and hated that all movement was point and click, and I can see where he's coming from. He'd rather play an MMO where he can directly control. I believe that adding in an option where one can at least control their ship via a joystick like interface is a good idea. It would make flying smaller ships a whole new rush, to be able to pull off maneuvers in space, flying in and out of range of larger ships pecking off bits of armor or shield, one could go in blasting away, then quickly pull up on the joystick increasing their transversal velocity. Again all gunnery and aiming would be kept the same, just being able to maneuver the smaller ships would add a whole new side to EVE.

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Originally by: Kim Chee

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Nope... EVE doesn't need to become Yet Another Twitch Game. It's nice to have at least one game where brains are more valuable than energy drinks.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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I think it could work extremely well if joystick/manual piloting were introduced, not as a replacement for, but an extension to, current piloting technique.

The biggest problem with ship combat is the controls are frustratingly limiting. You can orbit, approach, keep at range or click like a madman in different areas of space. That's just not in keeping with the concept of a ship piloted by someone whose brain is so wired into it that it's literally an extension of the pilot's body and mind.

I'd like to see something where the current controls remain, but you can adjust your fliight path, turn, roll, etc using a joystick. Essentially, the joystick simply acts as a continuous feedback stream that would be sort of like being able to direct your ship the same way you do by double-clicking in space, but without having to drag the camera around (like if you want to go away from something).

As far as weapons control goes, leave the weapons computer controlled, BUT give them firing zones, making them more effective if the ship is pointed in a certain direction. For example, a vessel with mostly "broadside" type weapon apertures would get maximum effectiveness for its weapons when presenting its flank to the enemy. Ships with forward-oriented turrets would be more effective when pointing at the enemy directly. Missile launchers might be set up so they can only fire when the target is in a specific cone relative to the missile launcher's hardpoint.

Consider the tactical options it gives you when you have to consider not just what you fit, but where you locate it. A ship might have 2 launcher hardpoints, but only one has 360' orientation, the other can only launch forward, for example.

Makes for a whole new world of tactical decisions when you could get finer- not pure twitch, but more fine-grained control- over your ship in combat.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Yeah, true would be nice I admit.

But you also have to look at the otherside of it all people please. Twitch based or so, you avoid fire or increase your transversal exponentially= he cannot hit you regardless of what he does. Not to mention ofc how many packets of data would be transferred from not only your computer and the cluster, but the entire fleet participating in such an action.

There is a reason there is a limit to the Battlefield/ counterstrike/ Css/ other fps games servers etc.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Yeah, true would be nice I admit.

But you also have to look at the otherside of it all people please. Twitch based or so, you avoid fire or increase your transversal exponentially= he cannot hit you regardless of what he does. Not to mention ofc how many packets of data would be transferred from not only your computer and the cluster, but the entire fleet participating in such an action.

There is a reason there is a limit to the Battlefield/ counterstrike/ Css/ other fps games servers etc.

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I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere. SWG, for all its flaws, had some halfway decent controls, at least in my opinion, for the starship portion of the game. I wouldn't want EVE to go too far in the direction of twitch-based combat, but there's something to be said for more tactical options.

As an explorer I also find the controls annoying when trying to navigate in some of the radar and mag sites. The controls are really clumsy for navigating around something between you and a target, or trying to approach something closely without bouncing off it. I don't necessarily want to see X-wing style flying, but I'd like more fine-grained control over the ship - in some circumstances.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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On only pilotable fighters I could see myself subscribing to that idea, but not for me.

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Originally by: Aewaytor

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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On only pilotable fighters I could see myself subscribing to that idea, but not for me.

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Exactly - in real life terms, Tankers, battleships, submarines, whatever - they're not controlled by joysticks. Even an in-game frigate is probably bigger than one in real life and you wouldn't see one of those being flown around with one.

Fighters on the other hand, are

I can see people's point with the whole lag thing, but even if they started designing this feature now, it would still take well over a year at the very least, to implement. Hopefully CCP and the need for speed policy will get the game running quick enough for it by then.

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Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS

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Just pinting out again that this is a controll system for asteroid dungeons and planetry flight. How else will you controll your ship insuch an enviroment where for example double clicking in the direction you wnat to go will just be you double clicking on the asteroid walls.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS

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Just pinting out again that this is a controll system for asteroid dungeons and planetry flight. How else will you controll your ship insuch an enviroment where for example double clicking in the direction you wnat to go will just be you double clicking on the asteroid walls.

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Agreed, it was not clearly explained in the first and for that and the way I blew up at you all I apologise. I will agree it seems a decent idea for FIGHTERS only, anything else I will make huge demonstrations against if CCP attempt to introduce it to "regular" flight on the other starships etc.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Ok, Planets and "dungeons" only, that's ok, I could live with not going there unless I really have to. Jita is much the same right now, in fact.... err nearly a year as far as I am aware from visiting jita for the last time.

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Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Ok, Planets and "dungeons" only, that's ok, I could live with not going there unless I really have to. Jita is much the same right now, in fact.... err nearly a year as far as I am aware from visiting jita for the last time.

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Good thing is that if you visited a palnet on jita it wont be affected by the Jita Disease.

[The jita disease is belived to be an offshoot of the jove disease, where instead of a person or persons going suicidal its a star system. The usuall suicide method is atracting loads of nooby pilots and then crashing its node driving everyone to dispair and hopfully suicide].

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Ok, Planets and "dungeons" only, that's ok, I could live with not going there unless I really have to. Jita is much the same right now, in fact.... err nearly a year as far as I am aware from visiting jita for the last time.

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Good thing is that if you visited a palnet on jita it wont be affected by the Jita Disease.

[The jita disease is belived to be an offshoot of the jove disease, where instead of a person or persons going suicidal its a star system. The usuall suicide method is atracting loads of nooby pilots and then crashing its node driving everyone to dispair and hopfully suicide].

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Believe me after visiting Jita the last time I felt it...

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Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Ok, Planets and "dungeons" only, that's ok, I could live with not going there unless I really have to. Jita is much the same right now, in fact.... err nearly a year as far as I am aware from visiting jita for the last time.

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Good thing is that if you visited a palnet on jita it wont be affected by the Jita Disease.

[The jita disease is belived to be an offshoot of the jove disease, where instead of a person or persons going suicidal its a star system. The usuall suicide method is atracting loads of nooby pilots and then crashing its node driving everyone to dispair and hopfully suicide].

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Believe me after visiting Jita the last time I felt it...

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As do we all. my point tho is that the planets are on a different server not affected by the same problems like the server node that servs jita.

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Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS

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Edited by: JADE DRAG0NESS on 04/07/2007 02:20:43
Well like you say we can speculate tll the sun goes down in the end tho we have very little info on this subject so specuation is a bit silly right now.

We can hope tho that CCP listens to ower sujestions tho in the forums. And that this will grow into a trully great addition to the game.

Concerning the packet sendings from the joystick controll im sure CCP will take that into account when they program things. The past has shown they are very good at programming. And the problem of people running around will no doubt be addressed in the ballancing phase.

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Originally by: Plutoinum

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Edited by: Plutoinum on 03/07/2007 23:34:09
You usually don't ussue multiple commands like that per second

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Originally by: Hellaciouss

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Originally by: Plutoinum

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Edited by: Plutoinum on 03/07/2007 23:34:09
You usually don't ussue multiple commands like that per second

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Well if you want to get technical, your ship is piloted by your brain which can preform billions of tasks at once...

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Originally by: Streetrip

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y'know at first i was in joy of such an idea...then starting to read thama's arguements and i didn't even need to read it all, i'm gonna agree with it. It's a nice fantasy and add's to the whole hot shot flying ace role play. But seriously, EVE has no need for it. Why have fixed cannons when you can have turrets on gyros? real life navies have figured it out. being able to shoot in a direction seperate to your line of motion is very beneficial. having a single line of fire is like taking a step back. RP wise, not gonna work. The only reason why fighter plane's have them is because having a firing system like that would just be way too hard. missiles act as a deploy then ignition usually.
Also what can a 80mm autocannon round on a fighter do on a ships system that a 1400mm round on a BS cant do?

play wise. Keeping it how it is doesn't "break" anything. adding it could and thats just not a great deal. It adds a new aspect to eve, however is it really even implementable? EVE can barely cope with 200 clients pointing and clicking, how about constant information updates on pitch/yaw/roll/weapon fire? not gonna happen. As a mini-game perhaps say for like, y'know archaeology if your going into an asteroid and you use a remote drone to do your work, maybe limited firing ability or just pure skill in flying then some joyous mining? Adding joystick PvPing will mean a change in the EVE design as well i would imagine. Right now it's mathematic calculations that work out whether you'll get hit and by how hard. Changing that for a twitch players means first changing the mathematics into physical movement and a whole new physical model. (which again, the server probably wont be able to handle) this makes EVE less of a strategy game by far because, why would you bother training up for that extra 5% of turret tracking when your opponent just has that extra bit of luck anyways? nubtards ahoy, the SP devoted characters get rewarded with nada.

Any real joystick capability should be limited. Also if some of you haven't heard already, Jumpgate: Evolution recently got announced to be in the works!
http://www.jumpgate-evolution.com/

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Originally by: Jacinta Worth

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I'll tell you my feeling on this. Can't post on Eve-O because of stupid router problems but will post here...

The ONE THING that turned me off this game when I first heard about it was the impression that it was joy-stick based space-flight. Don't ask me where I got the impression; probably from games like wing commander and X. Regardless, I didn't like the idea of having to deal with a bunch of guys with faster connections than me owning me with super flight skills with a joystick. I would have joined 6 months earlier if I'd known the controls were mouse based.

Additionally, I LOVE the tactical feeling it gives to combat: particularly with bigger ships. Having joystick flight with the smaller frigates and faster cruisers might be acceptable but would never sit well with me flying anything larger than that. I dislike Star Trek, but I really do like the idea of being on a bridge giving orders about what the ship must do and that's how I feel when I play Eve now. Joystick flight would ruin that for me.

Wish I could post this on Eve-O tbh. Not that anyone there would care but it'd be nice to make my opinion known.

Fly safe
Jacinta

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Originally by: Rhoadie

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Personally I read the statement "joystick-based combat inside asteroid dungeons" as to mean that joystick controlled flight would be in certain areas "dungeons" , I would guess it would be up to the pilot to make the choice to enter these areas ? .

I would also credit CCP with the intelligence to create ships with joystick control that would actually be enjoyable to fly with a joystick ( after all they have created a multi million $/ú game that has endured so you have to credit them with some intelligence ).

Jumpgate with eve graphics and investment , bring it on ,,,, please , pretty please

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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On a side not to this, related but different, there is a twitch based space game, and you could use it with a joystick.

Go onto steam and download eternal silence. Twitch based spaceflight game, with walking in stations.

What more could you ask for? Just please do not turn Eve into another Counterstrike in space.

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Translation: Don't change my game.. I dont want to adapt

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Yes that's right, I don't want to see Eve change or "dumbed down".I feel it would be too much of a change and a fundamental change in the mechanics of the game I really do not want to see. If the Devs want to really do this fine np, just don't expect me to live with it. I will find something else, possibly.

Btw if any one says go back to wow, well you have screwed yourself over, eve is the first and last mmorpg I will ever play. Period.

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Originally by: Gojyu

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Although I might be missing something, how is joystick combat "dumbing down" eve. In it's current form, a battle would go something like this:

"Player x is primary"
/thinks to self "Ok, action time, gotta use my brains... control click that guy.... f1, f2, f3. Damn it! what comes next? Think man, think! Aha! f4. Ok, time to get a coffee

/player returns
Ha! you're dead, I beat you with my vastly superior intellect and tactical skills!

Joystick combat and some fast paced action might bring a little skill and thought back into the game, I'm all for it.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Joysticks are so 80's.

Besides, Nathan is just mentioning some ideas he has. What he is saying is that anything is possible for future Eve expansions, since very few things (except maybe dancing) is out of place in a global persistent universe.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Shiela

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The system for Carrier pilots now...

Get in a fast frig and i will assign you some fighters from my POS over here, you should be able to take down a few cruisers before you die.

The system for carrier pilots of the future...

You guys get IN some fighters and actually risk something, with the additional bonus of being able to do much more damage than a remote control drone.

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Originally by: Cryptic Power

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Bad idea i think... If it's not Broken don't try to fix it?

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Quote:

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anything you can imagine inside space is an opportunity for expansion

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Originally by: Gan Dalf

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What's going on? Why is TQ down? Who is "GMT"? What's 'Reality', will it hurt?

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 03/07/2007 22:25:41
It seems my ministrations have fallen on deaf ears.

Too many newer guys coming from other twitch games. The vets are being slowly taken over by twitch petitionists.

I hate it.

EDIT; P.s. What the hell happened to having to use your damn loaf to fight rather than have somebody with lightning reflexes win? Tactical > > > > Twitch.

Omg, just realized, imagine Eve Devs having to make some kind of anti-bot program to stop all the damn "Flight-bot 200564", "You will never get hit again". **** off.

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Originally by: Aewaytor

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Fighter Squadron's ahoy!

Do it!

(I know the link has been posted already, but proper joystick dog fighting like X-Wing would make me not needing to buy another game again)

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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People saying to adapt to what newer players expect need to STFU. By that logic if an overwhelming number people join expecting WoW in space, EVE should actually become WoW in space? Umm, no.

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Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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People saying to adapt to what newer players expect need to STFU. By that logic if an overwhelming number people join expecting WoW in space, EVE should actually become WoW in space? Umm, no.

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Where has anyone said you should adapt to what new players want, all they've said is you'll have to adapt if this change is brought in.

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Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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New players, fresh (or not so) ideas.. Dev's and the game have to adapt.

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Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence

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Fair enuff, maybe a should read a little more thoroughly

However I don't think it would take away in game skills from combat, it would be easy to make a ships manuverability dependant on your Evasive Manuvering etc... just as it does now it would just mean that you had a bit more control...

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence

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Fair enuff, maybe a should read a little more thoroughly

However I don't think it would take away in game skills from combat, it would be easy to make a ships manuverability dependant on your Evasive Manuvering etc... just as it does now it would just mean that you had a bit more control...

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Player skill at controlling it would still skew it horribly in favor of FPS players.

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Originally by: Gojyu

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence

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Fair enuff, maybe a should read a little more thoroughly

However I don't think it would take away in game skills from combat, it would be easy to make a ships manuverability dependant on your Evasive Manuvering etc... just as it does now it would just mean that you had a bit more control...

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Player skill at controlling it would still skew it horribly in favor of FPS players.

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Very few fps players have that much experience with a joystick, but I see your point, the joystick requires a different kind of intelligence then the current eve.

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Populating immense asteroids with an industrial or pirate outpost and lag like you've never experienced before, unresponsivejoystick-based combat inside asteroid dungeons, hostile environments to build up an industrial base to exploit itæs resources ù anything you can imagine inside space is an opportunity for expansion.

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Originally by: fire 59

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Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.

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...Get off your high horse.

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If all you do is click approach and f1-f8

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...will require that you have a bit more "skill" than simply doing [as above] approach...

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...you will be sitting there while I am circling you firing on you with your drones missing guns losing track and there will be nothing you can do about it.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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For a start let me reply to some of the few replies here.

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...Get off your high horse.

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First off, I am not on any high horse, I am bringing my point across as best I can in the least flammable way possible. Next.

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If all you do is click approach and f1-f8

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If that is all you do then I feel sorry for your ships and insurance agent. I am no stunningly good combat pilot but a little more than that is needed to win a fight.

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...will require that you have a bit more "skill" than simply doing [as above] approach...

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Do you think about your ship setups? Do you consider that you may just have an advantage if you fit this module over that one? That an extra 5 seconds there ort faster firing might win out? That you have that extra 15 seconds cap might allow your tank to run that bit longer than your enemy was expecting?

I will say this much, most if not all fights are won before the fight has even started, it is just that you have to fight to find out who has won. Even then it is not guaranteed, perhaps he makes a mistake and you win because of it, he switched his guns off too early to de-aggro and lost because of it, perhaps he let his shield booster run 2 cycles too long. You screwed up you lose, just in a different way, you didn't think about it.

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...you will be sitting there while I am circling you firing on you with your drones missing guns losing track and there will be nothing you can do about it.

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That is precisely what I do not want, people with better connections (meta-gaming again ) faster hand eye co-ordination (red bull) and damned near no skill points (yay counterstrike again) can and would run rings around people who actually thought about their setups and prepared to fight, but they are too slow to make any kind of difference in their joystick controlled ships. Where is the pay off for the time they have spent training the ships and skills not to mention setting it all up, especially when it can be undone by someone that joins the game and only has 1 week in.

Sickening thought.

Btw, I want people to try and understand that I am willing to adapt and will should it be needed, but I really do not like the idea of joystick control over intelligent fitting of the ship and knowing its limitations.

I am prepared to have a discussion about it, but reduce the flames if you would. It is not needed and certainly not from the newer players who have not seen a lot of the game or as much as I have seen and read.

Thank you.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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[quoteMotherMoon]Stuff, and my post.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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[quoteMotherMoon]Stuff, and my post.

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I look at everything there is to do with eve that is possible, I am *always* reading up on the mechanics of eve and the way things interact.

With respect to the webs; yes that is frequently the case, but what if for example the pilot is out of web range, also I have ships myself that my corpmates have trouble hitting even when webbed. There is no set "pwnage mod 22005" is always better than "googleblasterlemon3001". It just will not work, there are too many variables.

I am not flaming, and agree with the current system it wouldn't change much, but thinking before the fight is for me much preferable than seeing who has the faster reactions.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Qolde

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It's definitely possible to pull off without breaking the game. They wouldn't be able to dodge anything better than they could with the mouse and keyboard, and the controls wouldn't be as powerful as they are in FPS games. They wouldn't turn on a dime, they wouldn't load the server with a bunch of crap, it would be more like sailing a boat.

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Originally by: Roger Arko

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Ehm no this is not an arcade game.

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Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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For a start let me reply to some of the few replies here.

Do you think about your ship setups? Do you consider that you may just have an advantage if you fit this module over that one? That an extra 5 seconds there ort faster firing might win out? That you have that extra 15 seconds cap might allow your tank to run that bit longer than your enemy was expecting?

I will say this much, most if not all fights are won before the fight has even started, it is just that you have to fight to find out who has won. Even then it is not guaranteed, perhaps he makes a mistake and you win because of it, he switched his guns off too early to de-aggro and lost because of it, perhaps he let his shield booster run 2 cycles too long. You screwed up you lose, just in a different way, you didn't think about it.

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Originally by: Aewaytor

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Edited by: Aewaytor on 06/07/2007 22:10:03

Originally by: ThaMa Gebir

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For a start let me reply to some of the few replies here.

Do you think about your ship setups? Do you consider that you may just have an advantage if you fit this module over that one? That an extra 5 seconds there ort faster firing might win out? That you have that extra 15 seconds cap might allow your tank to run that bit longer than your enemy was expecting?

I will say this much, most if not all fights are won before the fight has even started, it is just that you have to fight to find out who has won. Even then it is not guaranteed, perhaps he makes a mistake and you win because of it, he switched his guns off too early to de-aggro and lost because of it, perhaps he let his shield booster run 2 cycles too long. You screwed up you lose, just in a different way, you didn't think about it.

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[Conveniently ignoring the lag issue]

I disagree with this bit of your post. The only way I can describe is if you've played a game like Gran Turimo - it requires driving skill, but if you haven't tuned your car for the track (shocks, gear ratio's etc), you're going to have a miserable time of it.

Although a lot of twitch and hand eye-cordination is required, making sure you're setup correctly is half the fight (as you said). As a previous poster suggested - add the skills like navigation and evasive maneovuering, sharpshooting and rapid firing, the same rules for resistance vs damage types etc into the mix, and you've got a pretty tactical game right there.

The only difference would be that, due to the small size and high pace, the direction, throttle and gun controls have been put on a different device.

As for complaints about noobs and stuff taking over - after about 2-3 months of it being introduced, you'll probably see a couple of elite fighter wings emerge who will spank everything in sight, scare off the noobs and basically return the game to it's status quo.

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Originally by: Dano Katiria

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QFT, if u want joystick combat go play freelancer or some such

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Originally by: MOTOK0

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A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.

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