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Good Samaritan
Minmatar
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2007.07.05 18:04:00 -
[1]
Hello everyone
I have just been looking at the new caldari navy heavy / cruise missiles on the jita market.
I use tech 2 heavy missiles and soon will be able to use cruise as well , though looking at the new faction missiles i see very little point in using tech 2 ammo anymore as the drawbacks are so extreme.
I have been using scourge fury missiles on my drake. For each scourge fury missile i fit i gain roughly 200 seconds ontop of my cap recharge time. x7 thats roughly 1400 seconds. Plus the fact that they have a range of only 30k (ish). As my drake is passive this doesnt make too much of a difference to my setup , though the cruise missile fury`s would cripple my ravens ability to tank.
The new faction heavy missiles have the same damage and no drawbacks. Plus they have the same long range as tech 1 heavies. The only drawback is it currently costs 1.7 mill for 1000 though in PVP i rarely chew through that many missiles unless of course i loose my ship :S.
It would be nice to see the drawbacks either made less severe or change to effect somthing less crutial so that tech 2 cruise / heavy missiles become more usable.
Tea And Scones Please |
Overwhelming
Middle Finger Technology
Ghosts Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.05 18:19:00 -
[2]
I really do have to agree with this one...not only is the range extremely nerfed but they kill your cap recharge...and if you have flown a shield tanker you know how precious cap recharge can be to get that one extra boost off...TBH I do not even use Tech II ammo because it is pointless and nerfs most setups. IMHO it should be one or the other. The dual drawback stuff is really annoying...and dont get me wrong here I am not asking for the Torpedoes of old just more balanced Tech II ammo
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Paigan
Amarr
Thirdwave
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:26:00 -
[3]
AS far as T2 torps are concearned:
- javelins WERE somewhat overpowered in the past. Then they got tripple-nerfed to uselessness.
- Rage torps were pretty useless from the start
- T2 launchers with T1 ammo are useless most of the time, because 8% more rof most often don't compensate the fitting penalties.
- And then there came the (long time missing) faction missiles.
Thankfully, T1 launchers are already comparable to T2 turrets, so it's no big drama in the first place.
But as far as logic and balance is concearned... well, read my sig
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This game is still in beta stage |
Jennifer Meek
Gallente
Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:41:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jennifer Meek on 05/07/2007 21:43:42
Faction ammo was the final nail in the coffin for T2 ammo.
T2 ammo is now totally useless. Faction ammo will be everywhere. They should just un-seed the T2 ammo bpos and give the owners back their rp they spend on the ammo bpo.
The datacores will be worth 10 fold what a T2 ammo bpo is worth 
Or, actually make T2 ammo useful by:
1. Removing all penalties.
2. The penalty of T2 ammo should be the price, maybe make it take even longer to build a batch, or make them more expensive to build.
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Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.05 23:16:00 -
[5]
This affects mostly Caldari, sure the other races' ammo has penalties too but remain useable. Rage torpedoes requiring two painters to hit for full damage on a BS, and having shorter range, and having a cap recharge penalty. WTF?
I'll be using faction ammo thanks, and I doubt they'll unnerf t2 missiles.
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 23:33:00 -
[6]
I like the faction crystals because they give me better damage without alot of skills, and i can also choose my range and cap usage. And the fact that the t2 lasers dont give me and fitting reduction as compared to ti named gear.
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Do not read this thread!!!
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William Hamilton
Caldari
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.06 00:48:00 -
[7]
the only techII ammo worth using is precision....
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CrestoftheStars
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.07.06 02:09:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Paigan
AS far as T2 torps are concearned:
- javelins WERE somewhat overpowered in the past. Then they got tripple-nerfed to uselessness.
- Rage torps were pretty useless from the start
- T2 launchers with T1 ammo are useless most of the time, because 8% more rof most often don't compensate the fitting penalties.
- And then there came the (long time missing) faction missiles.
Thankfully, T1 launchers are already comparable to T2 turrets, so it's no big drama in the first place.
But as far as logic and balance is concearned... well, read my sig
i totally agree, i feel kind of stupid in using 60days or so on t2 tops spec lvl 5 just to see the only effectiveness of t2 torps get nerfed back to hell, and now the only torps worth using is the faction torps :S
just wrong...
well thats ccp inside the shell:P
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Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
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CrestoftheStars
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.07.06 02:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ghosttr
I like the faction crystals because they give me better damage without alot of skills, and i can also choose my range and cap usage. And the fact that the t2 lasers dont give me and fitting reduction as compared to ti named gear.
its kind of wrong that you can with just plain isk get a higher dps with named tier and faction missiles then some one using 70 days of training time to the specific gruop ;)
it's just stupid, fix the t2 mods so they are better then any t1, and fix the t2 ammo so its usefull again, and ATLEAST compete with the faction ammo
___________________________________________
Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
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Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.06 04:06:00 -
[10]
On the plus side you can load faction torps in t2 launchers, so its not all bad.
I'm just glad we now have that option, and we're no longer in the Rev 1 "T2 missiles suck and faction don't exist" period.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Defcon One
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.06 10:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Incantare
This affects mostly Caldari, sure the other races' ammo has penalties too but remain useable. Rage torpedoes requiring two painters to hit for full damage on a BS, and having shorter range, and having a cap recharge penalty. WTF?
I'll be using faction ammo thanks, and I doubt they'll unnerf t2 missiles.
There is useless ammo for every hybrid guns!
Javelin : stops the ship, greatly usable, it's short range that kills tracking and stops the ship (half speed with 4 turrets), how is it supposed to be usable?
Void : lower tracking and range and falloff than using faction antimatter, and around same damage. I no more use it, I ask my agent for faction antimatter.
The long range ammo have their use, spike is great sniping and null allows for longer tange blasters.
So, the rage torpedo is quite the equivalent of javelin & void which are also totally useless now (and before for javelin)!
The ammo needs to get rid of penalties that affect the ship and not only the gun. Because those penalties stack and a simple 10% on a 8 hi slot ships kills the stat.
As simple as it should be :
-Javelin needs only the range & tracking penalties, it's enough to miss your target half the time
-Rage missiles need no cap penalty, you already have penalties in range radius and expl velocity.
-Void ammo has a too high tracking penalty as most close range ammo, you can't orbit and shoot, you'll miss if you have good nav skills (how rewarding is this...). 3/4 instead of 1/2 => same for most close range ammo...
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.06 12:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Eleana Tomelac
There is useless ammo for every hybrid guns!
Javelin : stops the ship, greatly usable, it's short range that kills tracking and stops the ship (half speed with 4 turrets), how is it supposed to be usable?
Void : lower tracking and range and falloff than using faction antimatter, and around same damage. I no more use it, I ask my agent for faction antimatter.
For javelin the tracking penalty is just a small one. It won't stop you from hitting battleships. It's perfect for fights at gates or stations, for most situations where you would want to use it the speed is of no issue.
I can agree with void. Here the penalties area bit too high for its bonuses.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Defcon One
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.06 12:29:00 -
[13]
Right, for battleships, you don't care your battleship moving or the ennemy battleship speed wouldn't make you miss. The times battleships are missed in a battle are very small, even at full speed.
But for smaller ships... The small javelin... Why would someone want his enyo/harpy/catalyst/cormorant/others slower?
And for cruisers, stopping is just death too. Best chance of survival for cruisers is still speed (and EW and not bringing attention to him), they can't use such ammo.
The market price shows how useless this kind of ammo is for most of people. I tried the javelin on both AS and cruisers and I'm sure I'll leave the ammo in my hangar and use standard antimatter or fed navy antimatter when I got some.
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
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