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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.07.10 10:53:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2007 10:53:26
Originally by: Patch86
EDIT: Jim, you edited your post to basically say exactly what I was saying, before I managed to finish. Nice
Mad skillz.
I didnt read your post since I was typing, but yeah, our ideas are similar. Seriously, our (this?) idea is good and Im not sure why it hasnt gotten much attention.
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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DeltaH
NOBODY Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.10 11:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are sorting this out by adding more routes and moving the agents to better locations. we are also increasing and decreasing agent qualities to better balance the system. when we move agents, there will be an increase in it's quality to try and drag people to work with him etc.
we have talked about adding new solarSystems, new constellations or even new regions if needed. but we haven't decided on that yet.
we have a few other things that require code changes that we are planning and we are hoping to get them out soon.
and ofcourse the python 2.5.1 changes will also give us a big (hopefully) performance increase and help with the high load market hubs and agent systems.
you will see more information regarding all this over the coming weeks...
Why don't you just suck it up and remove agent quality?
All quality does is take a pool of dozens of possible agents and narrow it down to a handful.
Low quality agents no one runs except to get the standing for a high quality agent they will run 'forever'.
High quality agents create an instance to min/max where there is a 'best' choice and it makes no sense to do anything but the 'best' choice. The only reason not to do the 'best' choice is because of LAG, and using LAG as an acknowledged balancing means is not where you want to go.
Instead of quality just keep level and scale the quality of the agent based on your own standing with the corp and agent (effective quality style). This would keep all agents of the same level worth doing and increase your content ten fold overnite.
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.07.10 11:06:00 -
[63]
motsu and saila provide entertainment for hostile scan probing scavengers
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Plave Okice
Naughty 40 Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.10 11:07:00 -
[64]
As far as Jita goes, create low sec between all the major factions, it's too easy for everyone to go to the one system, especially with warp to 0 (but don't remove warp to 0).
Low sec between the faction space will encourage more regional trading and offer more opportunities for more daring traders to make some money.
Hell, for me you could add more more systems to each region (rather than new regions) and add a little low sec between em all, only needs to be one system.
I don't care about role playing but I'm sure someone who does could come up with some reasons for it.
Oh and I'm not a pirate, or a trader, or a mission runner, I don't even go to empire.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2007.07.10 11:07:00 -
[65]
Give us Yulai back!!!
You changed routes there...why? At least Genesis was a relatively quiet region.
Now you've shifted the problem trade hub, inadvertantly to Caldari space it seems, which despite being crap for Gallente mission runners with low standings, its also crap for Caldari newbies starting the game.
Solution is to return the Yulai routes and reduce trade tax there! :)
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas |
Bralstov
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Posted - 2007.07.10 15:32:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
This is cool but won't people just follow the highest Q agent in hi sec like lemmings and continue the problem?
I know, park the high quality agents next to low sec systems so most of the missions they offer send people there. Then maybe you'll see people shove off for agents elsewhere.
To OP: A long time ago I ran maybe 5 missions in the Motsu/Saila area. Stunk and I moved off. Never been happier and make plenty of ISK/LP. More than I did there actually (isn't Motsu a 0.8 system?).
The pb isnt that everybody follow the higest quality agent, but that all the q>10 agent in secure ( for the navy ) and not close to a low are 2 jump from motsu ( motsu aramachi saila.... ) and 3 jumps from jita. 2000 ppl+ in 5 systems, of course the server dies.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.10 15:36:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2007 10:53:26
Originally by: Patch86
EDIT: Jim, you edited your post to basically say exactly what I was saying, before I managed to finish. Nice
Mad skillz.
I didnt read your post since I was typing, but yeah, our ideas are similar. Seriously, our (this?) idea is good and Im not sure why it hasnt gotten much attention.
TBH, I probably nicked the idea from you in another thread ages ago, anyhow. I've posted this idea so many times in other threads, but it never gets much attention. I guess it's not flamey or trolly enough to generate a discussion, for EVE-O --------
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Lady Natacha
Minmatar Water and Power
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Posted - 2007.07.10 15:53:00 -
[68]
Note to CCP marketing dept please update:
Quote:
Epic 4,998 solar system persistent single universe
Jita - R.I.P Salia - R.I.P
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:02:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Patch86
TBH, I probably nicked the idea from you in another thread ages ago, anyhow. I've posted this idea so many times in other threads, but it never gets much attention. I guess it's not flamey or trolly enough to generate a discussion, for EVE-O
I think I nicked the original idea from someone else too. :) Wonder if its worth making a completely new thread with it... probably not. Everyone will just agree and it will fall off the front page quickly. Its the way of the Eve-O. ---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Liisa
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:36:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I kind of like the idea, but its a bit boring to have all the agents within, for example, 0.7, have the same quality. Then people would just pick agents on some other parameter, like how close he is to Jita so they can shop easier.
There have been some ideas about agents before, and the one which still stick in my mind is the one where agent rewards are relative to the number of people doing missions for the agent. So it would change every day of the week. For example:
- Quality is removed and instead you have a dynamic number showing how many people are running missions for the agent at that point in time. - A agent in some dead end 0.5 system where only 10 people are running missions for him at that point in time will appriciate you a lot more than the high sec caldari agent who has 300 people running missions for him at that point in time. Meaning the 0.5 sec agent will give you a lot more loyalty points and rewards.
I dont really see a downside to solving the agent problem this way... people would spread out and try to find lonely agents instead of crowding the highest quality ones.
Have given this some thought about how to grief/abuse it, but I too just cannot see a downside. Only possible problem might be too much load if the whole system is made too fancy, i.e. they try for a fancy equation that needs to be computed too often.
I like it a lot. Would also give lowsec agents a further boost. ----------------------------------
Currently pursuing a "deviant playstyle." |
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Decairn
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:41:00 -
[71]
Remove quality. Make the rewards based on faction standings and system security status only. Remove specific agent types for Command, Courier etc. and have them provide multiple mission paths. Voila - agent runners disperse.
--Decairn |
The Mantra
Caldari Knights of Sovereignty United Corporations of Eve
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:52:00 -
[72]
Edited by: The Mantra on 10/07/2007 16:52:34
Originally by: skiersteve
the lag is INSANE. it took me over an hour to salvage ONE POCKET.
Why? Your time could have been spent far more profitably doign something else.
Why persist in these kind of conditions if it doesn't actually benefit you because it takes so long to do anything?
TBH though, CCP is allowing things in the game that it's servers simply can't handle, and I don't see why they think it's acceptable. Either sort it out or introduce some kind of population capping.
I mean, would a single player game with the lag of fleet battles sell?
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RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.07.10 17:13:00 -
[73]
Even with the lag (and it isnt that bad tbh, I've been through much worse 6 months ago) living in Motsu has a lot of advantages. Availability of goods and decent trade hub being one of them. Proximity to Jita being another. People might like to be isolated and have to travel 20 jumps to buy something, but imo what little lag there is in these systems, compared to how it was before, more than makes up for the time, and risk, I shed by living in them. And the majority of people know this is true. It's the same thing as living in the midwest compared to living in New York. The midwest is boring apart from the tornados and you have to travel a whole lot to get anything. May I remind you that interbus dosen't deliver to low sec? People saying other people are stupid for taking the lag a) overestimate how bad it is, sure it spikes, but most of the time its perfectly playable and b) underestimate just how much Isk is in these hubs for the making.
As a solo player in lowsec I would be nothing but pirate feed. As a corp player in lowsec chances are I would be nothing but a drone. As a mission runner/trader in empire I buy whatever I want and only lose ships ocasionally, usually because of my own distraction.
Want me in lowsec ccp? Stop loading the dice in the criminals favour. At the very least take away local and players in system stats so we can move around and have some chance of survivability.
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Exlegion
KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.10 17:32:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Cyclops43 It would be much better if you just took the Q-level out of the rewards altogether and purely determined it on the level of the agent, the sec.level of the system and the pilots standing towards the agent.
That way people would be free to spread around all L4 agents of a corp, logically spreading load on nodes instead of concentrating it on a few.
I like this idea.
And I don't know if it's already been said, but the problem with having agent qualities dynamic and based on mission-runner population is that it takes time to move from one system to another. So, for example, I'm running missions in a relatively quiet system, then within the next few days or weeks it gets more and more crowded. If the agent quality goes down enough I may need to pack up and find a better quality agent. But packing up means I have to move ships, modules, ammo, etc to the next system. And to be doing this every so often just to keep up with agent quality is inconvenient, especially to be moving from low sec system to low sec system.
That's why I like the idea suggested above the best. It means this new agent rating accounts for system security and agent quality (including personal standings) at the same time, giving you a clear picture as to what agent would be better to run missions for.
But in order for this idea to work, personal standings towards an agent needs to mean something more than what it already does. For example, if Motsu agent is, say, of a rating "5" (just a number I came up with), and there's an agent of rating "3" in a lower security system, it may be possible for me to acquire a "5" rating with this agent via my corporate standings or faction standings.
As it is now, personal standings only slightly increases rewards, but not enough to really make a huge difference.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Return The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.07.10 17:39:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Cyclops43
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are sorting this out by adding more routes and moving the agents to better locations. we are also increasing and decreasing agent qualities to better balance the system. when we move agents, there will be an increase in it's quality to try and drag people to work with him etc.
Shark, why don't you just remove the quality rating of agents alltogether. The Q-level really has no other effect than getting people to assemble at the highest one.
It would be much better if you just took the Q-level out of the rewards altogether and purely determined it on the level of the agent, the sec.level of the system and the pilots standing towards the agent.
That way people would be free to spread around all L4 agents of a corp, logically spreading load on nodes instead of concentrating it on a few.
No, this would just make all the lemmings in Motsu move to the 0.5 system that's closest to Jita and complain about lag there.
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Exlegion
KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.10 17:45:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Originally by: Cyclops43
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are sorting this out by adding more routes and moving the agents to better locations. we are also increasing and decreasing agent qualities to better balance the system. when we move agents, there will be an increase in it's quality to try and drag people to work with him etc.
Shark, why don't you just remove the quality rating of agents alltogether. The Q-level really has no other effect than getting people to assemble at the highest one.
It would be much better if you just took the Q-level out of the rewards altogether and purely determined it on the level of the agent, the sec.level of the system and the pilots standing towards the agent.
That way people would be free to spread around all L4 agents of a corp, logically spreading load on nodes instead of concentrating it on a few.
No, this would just make all the lemmings in Motsu move to the 0.5 system that's closest to Jita and complain about lag there.
Not necessarily. If personal standings are fixed* so as to help you achieve the max quality possible in high sec, then you can theoretically choose to work with any agent in high sec and eventually cap the quality of the agent.
*Fixed as in make better. Not that I'm implying it is broken at the moment. Just can't think of a better word to use. Sorry, I have too much on my mind right now.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Nimrias
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Posted - 2007.07.10 21:33:00 -
[77]
There are some great ideas here. I generally try to find agents in 0.5 backwater systems (not neighboring lowsec) that have q of at least 15+ for no-name companies that people have never heard of that are gallente faction. It works for me.
What I would personally love to see would be this...
Make missions available in ANY system. I forget how far into the future this game is supposed to be, but being tethered to a station to run missions makes no damn sense to me. You mission how (kill/courier) you want, when you want, where you want.
Do away with agent quality, agent standings, and agent location values. With the LP store being tied to the corp and not the agent, we no longer need these numbers. When you make contact to get a mission, you choose the CORP (depending on faction standings), and the agent you speak with is just some random guy who works for the corp. He doesn't need your name, you don't need his. You don't care about his feelings toward you personally. You're making contact with this corp to make money, not friends. He has no quality to you at all other than a paycheck.
Make the mission bonuses less about time and more about "skill" (not sure what else to call it [anti-farming?]). You call in and get a kill mission. You decide you want the level 3 kill mission from whatever corp. Sure you get a small bonus if it's done in an hour. However, you get an even bigger bonus if you do it in a cruiser instead of a battlecruiser. Need a gang ? No problem. You still have the choice of gang-split. Sure that would reduce your bonus (you needed help), but it's still feasible. Make it rewarding / possible to do a level 3 kill mission with a gang of frigates for all I care. Just give more options. If you're doing a level 2 or 3 mission in a battleship, you get a reduction to your mission / bonus pay.
Just a few ideas.
Any suggestions or criticism is welcome. Thanks.
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Thor Xian
EarthForce E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.10 21:42:00 -
[78]
Remove agents and missions entirely. And allow people to cash their LP in for ISK. ________________________________________ ~Fleet Admiral Thor Xian, Strategic Commander
Meet the Overlord |
SonOTassadar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.10 21:50:00 -
[79]
So far the best idea has been to make agents give better rewards based on how often they're used.
If there is any solution to how dead low-sec is compared to no-sec and high-sec, that's a step in the right direction. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless |
LogixCraft
Gallente Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.10 22:48:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Introduce asset tax in the game.
Implementation.
Have a monthly tax from CCP/eVe bank on wallet and assets. Taxation on assets are done by moving average of value in assets in market over one month. Apply different tax bands on toons with different values in wallet and assets.
Tax rate is calculated from average player count in system per month. Heavily crowded systems would be taxed up to 40%. Uncongested systems at 10%. System sec. would act as multipliers to calculate tax reductions, 1.0 sec is no reduction and 0.0 sec is tax free on assets.
Stop trying to tax us! grrrrrrrrrrrr!
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R2 D3
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.07.10 23:36:00 -
[81]
Here's the problem:
If CCP makes the system lag-free for 50 people to play in, there will be 70 people in the system.
Then, if CCP upgrades the hardware so 70 people can play in there, there will be 85 people in local, and so on.
Just look at what is happening to Jita, each time the hardware gets improved, local increases by 150.
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Tomas Ysidro
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.10 23:44:00 -
[82]
Simple solution, run missions for someone else. I run my missions for a great L4Q18 agent in a different Caldari corp in an area that is pretty much lag-free. All you have to do is search a bit and be willing to spend a day or two grinding standings up, which I find to be worth the time saved by not sitting in a lagged out system all day.
Don't whine for the devs to fix a problem that you yourself can solve.
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Seidr
Amarr Icarus' Wings
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Posted - 2007.07.10 23:48:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Seidr on 10/07/2007 23:48:04 Imagine a system, where the NPCs governed all of this. It would cause hell, and confusion, but paired with some PvE warfare, it would sure be interesting.
NPC corps taking down, or attempting to take down important stations. NPC fleets being modified depending on the amount of pilots in the region with relative standings to them (-5.0 or below), as well as pilots that have actively engaged the fleet.
Far fetched, may be, but giving this 'Empire' space some flexibility, some life, would provide more entertainment for Empire players, and an avenue to shift load from heavy zones to less populated zones.
I'm thinking with the heavily lagged zones, it would cause just more lag..a constant fleet being hit on by mission runners and pirates alike, but I can dream :)
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Gungankllr
Caldari STK Scientific M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.11 00:11:00 -
[84]
I would like to see different types of agents installed, to try and break up the missin running blobs some.
For instance, you could choose an agent that gives straight LP and isk, or choose a different agent that had a random loot bonus reward (like the old system)
Either/or. That way people can either grind toward what they want, or the more risky guys can go after a much better LP reward. (Or even have different LP offers put out by different agents, so you would have to do missions in different systems to get certain rewards... I dunno)
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Nex Viator
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.07.11 01:20:00 -
[85]
first in a PVE whining thread
Try some other agents from other corps.. Try low sec agents :)
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.07.11 02:26:00 -
[86]
The "problem" with removing standalone quality completely from agents is that it just makes agent choice more granular. You just make location more important without shaking things up more than temporarily.
I'd love to see dynamic quality based based inversely on the number of missions completed successfully over a given, multi-week period of time. Ideally I'd like it to be made of multiple, individually invisible relative "quality" numbers based on curves so that it could be a form of social engineering that would gradually incentivize people to work for unpopular corps and factions in less populated areas of space. Call it something appropriate like the "Crisis Level" or somesuch.
Failing that, just give me two things and I'd still be pretty happy, and I think EVE would be better served than it is now: Make personal standing much more important relative to quality in the rewards formulae as one of the posters above mentioned; and make a huge break between mission rewards in Concord-protected space and everything else. Right now, there's an incremental (or negative) reward for running missions in <.5, while the risks go up exponentially. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Culdees
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Posted - 2007.07.11 02:46:00 -
[87]
why not assign a node for each of the affected systems for the sole purpose of hosting ds missions. the load off the systems main node would be huge and the ds missions dont really need interaction outside their own little world. jump in, jump out. maybe one node could host a whole regions ds missions.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.13 09:44:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Nimrias
Make the mission bonuses less about time and more about "skill" (not sure what else to call it [anti-farming?]). You call in and get a kill mission. You decide you want the level 3 kill mission from whatever corp. Sure you get a small bonus if it's done in an hour. However, you get an even bigger bonus if you do it in a cruiser instead of a battlecruiser. Need a gang ? No problem. You still have the choice of gang-split. Sure that would reduce your bonus (you needed help), but it's still feasible. Make it rewarding / possible to do a level 3 kill mission with a gang of frigates for all I care. Just give more options. If you're doing a level 2 or 3 mission in a battleship, you get a reduction to your mission / bonus pay.
Interesting idea, but exploitable like hell. What ship count for the reward? The one I was in when accepting the mission, the one I was in when delivering, the one I was in while doing the mission or mis of the above? What appens if I lose a ship in the mission and return with a different one?
and especially: I accept the mission in a noob frigate, gang with my uber alt, warp to the mission spot whit him, then I complete the mission with ALT PWN-mobile, return to delive mission for me alone in the noob frigate.
The character that has accepted the mission has never left the noob frigate, so he should get the highest reward, but in reality the mission has been done in a PWN-mobile, faction, rigged BS.
If forming a gang automatically lower reward I simply give my alt a bookmark.
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.13 10:52:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Gojyu CCP did not place a single trade hub anywhere, we did. It's not their problem if players congregate in one area. Secondly, mission hubs are the same, you do not HAVE to use whatever specific agent you're using, corporations tend to have many agents spread out across the galaxy, surely 1 of them is in a non-lagged system?
Human nature dictates that we'll all cluster around the best agent. Or a single trading point. You'll never solve it by trying to convince people to go to a lesser agent. In masses, they just will not do it. WoW had the same problem with the cities. Everyone went to Irongforge. The other cities were complete ghost towns until they connected all their auction houses.
There are two ways to fix it: 1) Throw more hardware at it or try and work around the problem with a technical solution 2) Create more equally good agents elsewhere
The first solution is either expensive, difficult or both. The second sounds like a few simple SQL insert statements, so why the hell not?
Or.... let people MAKE A CHOICE between a slightly lower quality agent and a busier system. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.13 10:56:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2007 10:49:20
Originally by: Cyclops43
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are sorting this out by adding more routes and moving the agents to better locations. we are also increasing and decreasing agent qualities to better balance the system. when we move agents, there will be an increase in it's quality to try and drag people to work with him etc.
Shark, why don't you just remove the quality rating of agents alltogether. The Q-level really has no other effect than getting people to assemble at the highest one.
It would be much better if you just took the Q-level out of the rewards altogether and purely determined it on the level of the agent, the sec.level of the system and the pilots standing towards the agent.
That way people would be free to spread around all L4 agents of a corp, logically spreading load on nodes instead of concentrating it on a few.
I kind of like the idea, but its a bit boring to have all the agents within, for example, 0.7, have the same quality. Then people would just pick agents on some other parameter, like how close he is to Jita so they can shop easier.
There have been some ideas about agents before, and the one which still stick in my mind is the one where agent rewards are relative to the number of people doing missions for the agent. So it would change every day of the week. For example:
- Quality is removed and instead you have a dynamic number showing how many people are running missions for the agent at that point in time. - A agent in some dead end 0.5 system where only 10 people are running missions for him at that point in time will appriciate you a lot more than the high sec caldari agent who has 300 people running missions for him at that point in time. Meaning the 0.5 sec agent will give you a lot more loyalty points and rewards.
I dont really see a downside to solving the agent problem this way... people would spread out and try to find lonely agents instead of crowding the highest quality ones.
I think this is a fantastic idea. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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