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MMO operators at risk of breaking UK law from September

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syphurous Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:43:00 - [1] Just read this article, wondering if CCP had yet ? Quote: Gambling Act could affect games Law firm Campbell Hooper has warned that unless they take action now, some MMO operators risk their games being deemed illegal when a new law comes into force later this year. "In September the remaining provisions of the Gambling Act 2005 will finally come into force. Its main purpose is to update the law on gambling, which in some cases is over 50 years old and is therefore inadequate for the modern world," Campbell Hooper's Alex Chapman told GamesIndustry.biz. The Act is designed to regulate online gambling, which companies will be able to operate from within the UK for the first time. However, massively multiplayer online games which offer prizes will also be subject to the new laws. "This is because the new law creates a new single definition for 'Gambling', which includes playing a game of chance for a prize, and makes it a criminal offence to provide facilities for gambling without having and complying with an operators licence," explained Chapman. The Act defines a "game of chance" as any game which involves elements of both chance and skill, or where superlative skill can eliminate chance. The definition of "prize" includes cash prizes, products and virtual prizes which can be exchanged for money. "This arguably puts the marketplaces in MMOGs such as Station Exchange in Everquest in the firing line, and makes the products sold through them "prizes" - since they have a monetary worth," said Chapman. However, he continued, MMO operators can avoid any potential penalties by obtaining an operators' licence from the Gambling Commission. "This is not a simple task, but it is also not overtly complex. The key is to satisfy the Commission that you have in place an operation that satisfies the requirements and key objectives of the new law." These include commitments to ensuring fair and open gambling, the protection of children and other vulnerable persons and the prevention of links between gambling and crime. "This is something all current operators of these games, and those looking to enter this market, should seriously consider now," Chapman concluded - adding that his firm is already working to obtain licences for clients, and is in talks with the Gambling Commission over the MMO issue. Source ______________________________
Miriyana Gallente BeyondXtreme Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:44:00 - [2] a) CCP is icelandic b) It's the internet, who gives a **. - - - - - - Change just leads to more problems** i think we have to acceptant of spelling and grammer errors. - Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:45:00 - [3] Nothing to see here, move along. eVe players do not exchange real money. eVe players do not gain income from the game. eVe is not a game of chance. eVe is not gambling. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Miriyana a) CCP is icelandic b) It's the internet, who gives a **. c. The EVE cluster is located in London? I doubt there's a real threat there, but if there were... CCP would be in a bad place and we'd have heard about it by now. Originally by:** Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Tammarr	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:47:00 - [5] But the eve cluster is in england, no? This new law must be the real reason for getting rid of the t2 bpo lottery O_O
UPA Terf DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:49:00 - [6] To be honest the way i read it it makes buying isk in england illegal but as eve is run under icelandic law (in the eula) then it is exempt ------------------------------ *~~Scorn~~*
syphurous Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:49:00 - [7] You can access Eve from the UK, thus its applicable. You can trade items for cash with real life money while following the games EULA, this doesn't stop it from happening, thus is applicable. Eve-Radio while not CCP related is funded with donations & gives away isk prizes, thus gambling, thus making Eve Applicable. ______________________________
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:50:00 - [8] loled the uk have theyre noises so far up theyre asses that they can feel theyre chin:P hehe as if mmo's around the world gives a damn, the law in uk doesn't effect any one outside of uk. so if they didn't get the license what do they care, it's not theyre fault if people are breaking the law:) ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:50:00 - [9] Originally by: syphurous You can access Eve from the UK, thus its applicable. You can access EVE from China, is Chinese law going to start applying because of that? - sig removed due to inappropriate content, email us for more information - Deckard ([email protected])
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:51:00 - [10] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 08/07/2007 22:51:28 Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 08/07/2007 22:50:56 Originally by: Matthew Cooper I doubt there's a real threat there, but if there were... CCP would be in a bad place and we'd have heard about it by now. This is true, or the same with EQ. But that is an incredibly broad definition of gambling that they put up there. And to the person you quoted, amazingly enough, the internet is directly linked to the area of the world that isn't the internet. Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: syphurous You can access Eve from the UK, thus its applicable. You can access EVE from China, is Chinese law going to start applying because of that? Yes, for those in China.

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Tammarr But the eve cluster is in england, no? This new law must be the real reason for getting rid of the t2 bpo lottery O_O heeheeheeheeheehehehehe ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:52:00 - [12] By that definition, doesn't that affect ANY online game for which there are official exchanges between in-game items and money? The question is, since GTCs can be officially exchanged for money and GTCs have a monetary value, does ISK count as a "prize" that can be obtained through a game of change and/or combination of chance and skill? Or does something only count as a "prize" when it's done through a CCP-sanctioned giveaway of some kind? LAG IBTL! IBDS! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
cal nereus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:53:00 - [13] Edited by: cal nereus on 08/07/2007 22:54:18 Edited by: cal nereus on 08/07/2007 22:53:46 EVE does involve chance, therefore counts as gambling. EVE stuff can be exchanged for real money, albeit indirectly, and thus everything in EVE has real monetary value. EVE can be accessed from England, is played by English, and the server is in England. However, it seems to me that getting the license will be relatively easy. CCP is probably planning on getting right on top of that and it won't matter if we have elements of gambling and real monetary value attached to our virtual stuff, as long as CCP is authorized for it. It will likely be the same for all other MMOs. All it means is extra paperwork.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:55:00 - [14] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: syphurous You can access Eve from the UK, thus its applicable. You can access EVE from China, is Chinese law going to start applying because of that? Yes, for those in China. The law in question doesn't affect the players, it places a requirement on CCP. By the quoted logic, any requirements the Chinese have of MMOGs (I understand there are a few) would have to be applied to TQ because it can be accessed from China. - sig removed due to inappropriate content, email us for more information - Deckard ([email protected])
3card Monty	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: syphurous You can access Eve from the UK, thus its applicable. You can access EVE from China, is Chinese law going to start applying because of that? Chinese law does apply...thats why there is a seperate china server
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:57:00 - [16] Originally by: 3card Monty Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: syphurous You can access Eve from the UK, thus its applicable. You can access EVE from China, is Chinese law going to start applying because of that? Chinese law doesn't apply...thats why there is a seperate china server Fixed? - sig removed due to inappropriate content, email us for more information - Deckard ([email protected])
3card Monty	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:58:00 - [17] All in all its quite simple. If the mmo companies to not comply with the new law, then the UK will bar them from doing business in the UK..its that simple. No comply... No UK customers.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: syphurous You can access Eve from the UK, thus its applicable. You can access EVE from China, is Chinese law going to start applying because of that? Yes, for those in China. The law in question doesn't affect the players, it places a requirement on CCP. By the quoted logic, any requirements the Chinese have of MMOGs (I understand there are a few) would have to be applied to TQ because it can be accessed from China. I think we (as in the eve forum), have been through this before. And what I believe it came down to was...Yes, they'd technically have to, if they wanted Chinese players to play, but the Chinese gov't has no jurisdiction over what an Icelandic company does. And because of that they could not do anything to CCP directly, other than disallow chinese players to play. Of course, I know 0 about Chinese and Icelandic law, and 0.1 about International law.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:59:00 - [19] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Of course, I know 0 about Chinese and Icelandic law, and 0.1 about International law. That beats me by 0.1 knowledge of law. \o/ - sig removed due to inappropriate content, email us for more information - Deckard ([email protected])
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:02:00 - [20] Originally by: 3card Monty No comply... No UK customers. No UK customers = incentive to move the cluster out of the UK, and then... No taxes = sad UK government. Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.

An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: An Anarchyyt Of course, I know 0 about Chinese and Icelandic law, and 0.1 about International law. That beats me by 0.1 knowledge of law. \o/ Yes! Now all I need is a slam dunk emoticon.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:06:00 - [22] Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/07/2007 23:06:01 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire eVe is not a game of chance. eVe is not gambling. Everytime you jump from empire to 0.0 without a scout, it's gambling. Although you usually don't win, only loose.
3card Monty	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:10:00 - [23] Imho mmo's will have zero problems to get the proper license. I can't imagine that the government cant see that mmo's are a game of a different color.
Yogo Hong	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:23:00 - [24] Originally by: 3card Monty Imho mmo's will have zero problems to get the proper license. I can't imagine that the government cant see that mmo's are a game of a different color. You can only hope. A lot of European countries already restrict online gambling through games. Ex. a lot of WoW players from the Netherlands are quite frustrated everytime Blizzard Europe holds a contest as their law prohibits online gambling.
Paigan Amarr Thirdwave	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:24:00 - [25] All i say is: I can't take anyone for serious who writes "massively multiplayer". Multiplayer is no verb all, so there's no sense in using an adverb. Makes me itchy and amused every time i see it. Grrr. -- This game is still in beta stage
Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:26:00 - [26] LOL. am I missing out on something? Where is my prize? Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:40:00 - [27] Quote: This is because the new law creates a new single definition for 'Gambling', which includes playing a game of chance for a prize, Quote: The definition of "prize" includes cash prizes, products and virtual prizes which can be exchanged for money. Please note that there is a world of difference between "can be exchanged for money" and "can be, in a vague way be given gtc's since you buy them with cash"
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:43:00 - [28] Yet another one of these "SOme law is going to effect the game" threads. Items have no real world value in eve, therefore eve is not effected. Even if you ignore this fact, The ELUA clearly states that all items belong to CCP. Therefore there is no gambling involved, since CCP own everything. Heck, its the same as getting a mushroom in super mario, since it involves some degree of "chance" and if you beleive that a super mario collected mushroom has real world money value, then I strongly suggest speaking to your accountant or mental hospital -- Billion Isk Mission
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:50:00 - [29] Originally by: syphurous Just read this article, wondering if CCP had yet ? Quote: Gambling Act could affect games The Act defines a "game of chance" as any game which involves elements of both chance and skill, or where superlative skill can eliminate chance. The definition of "prize" includes cash prizes, products and virtual prizes which can be exchanged for money. Source Ingame Items can not be exchanged for real life money, not with out breaking the EULA. So I'd say CCP are pretty safe. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Lost Troll Caldari LUBE INC.	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:51:00 - [30] Well that's sad...I would have figured the US would of done this first, not the UK....meh If you look at Sony's station exchange, it is similar to CCP's system of time cards and character trade, and by this law, they are taxable. Here is the link to Sony's exchange site......... Stationexchange The bottom line with this law is, they are taxing anything that they deem has monetary value, which could also include the full in game market.



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