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Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.09 10:57:00 - [1] We need a thread dedicated to this topic rather than hijacking other threads. What I know so far: 1. Ray has located AATP assets and a decision on what to do will come later this week. 2. Trustee system may allow the reclamation of EMFI assets. The good news from today: Originally by: EMFI Manager/Naphtalia Neither really (bus nor scam) ... I have returned from vacation and have actually tried to start EvE (patchday came and went).. in the last weeks I haven't been motivated for eve anymore, I still talk a lot with my eve-friends (still visit my corps forums) and eve kind of sucks.. I am debating wether to return or to close down gracefully. You know me and I would never steal/scam :) Anyways, not sure what you planned to do with the confiscated assets you might confiscate, but if you want to do me a favour can you do buybacks of AATP Shares with that isk .. or just keep it aside.. It would be quite messy to close down gracefully if I first have to get isk back from you or if you have given it away already :) How is eve lately? T2 still **e... still laggy? cheers! Originally by:** Naphtalia Meh, I need to get the patches installed, probably buy some GTC ;) and look what is going on. Email from today: so he's back. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Castra Noor	Posted - 2007.07.09 11:33:00 - [2] I think the decision is clear: The AATP assets should be verified and used according to the NCPR protocol for VRRS issues only. This might lead to a negative PST factor, but this should not be a problem, as GDOSST is at a low level. Let's hope that FRTS will not interact with PGRS and cause a major OWTASFL, as this might result in a GGH which would not be good at all.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.07.09 13:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Castra Noor I think the decision is clear: The AATP assets should be verified and used according to the NCPR protocol for VRRS issues only. This might lead to a negative PST factor, but this should not be a problem, as GDOSST is at a low level. Let's hope that FRTS will not interact with PGRS and cause a major OWTASFL, as this might result in a GGH which would not be good at all. I absolutely could not find a language translator for this. Thank you for showing off and causing anyone who asks "WTF" to look like an idiot. Now that it is done, and I've taken the bait, could you use plainer language instead of alphabet soup? The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks!
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Shar Tegral Now that it is done, and I've taken the bait, could you use plainer language instead of alphabet soup? The abbreviations mean nothing, and were used as a form of humour in poking fun at the post title. \| Free Research On BS BPOs \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:26:00 - [5] lets hope it goes back on track ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:28:00 - [6] Originally by: SiJira lets hope it goes back on track I'm personally going to bet on a liquidation. Still, its better than nothing. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Ray McCormack The abbreviations mean nothing, and were used as a form of humour in poking fun at the post title. Ah. If it had been funny I might've gotten it. Then again I might not have. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks!
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.07.09 15:01:00 - [8] Interesting. At least it looks like there is a good chance of liquidation for shareholders. If Naphtalia really is that dissolusioned with EVE I'm sure there are multiple parties that would manage the liquidation and/or buyback of EMFI assets on behalf of shareholders. I'll of course put my hand up for this, I've handled some buybacks in the past and I'm fairly easy to find in EGSEx. Hopefully we hear more news soon.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.07.09 15:02:00 - [9] Why can't he just log on once, pass all assets across to someone, and have them handle it? Institute a trustee as CEO, and be done with it? Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.07.09 15:32:00 - [10] I feel the time has come to introduce myself properly and try and help out with the AATP/EMFI situation. I have many interest in making AATP/EMFI work, not only to try and get some value from the 8 billion in shares I have in them, but also to keep the player driven share market going as if these two fall it would have massive impacts upon trust levels etc. Having met Naph in person I doubt itÆs a scam and that RL has just proved much more interesting than eve. So H-TI are trying to manage the situation in case he has left the game/having a very long break. So heres how I think we can helpà One of the directors of Hi ûTech Industries (H-TI) tried to contact Naph/EMFI manager by phone over the weekend; I await their response and will attempt to post the results here. AATP AATP dividends should be quite safe if they have kept the shares they own in the corp wallet. These shares should pay close to 6billion a month in dividends (3,000 STUFF shares 9,000 H-TI Shares and 21 billion in cash at last count), although STUFF and H-TI has been suffering from the recent T2 downturn. I'm sure that H-TI (or its members) would consider buying back their shares at a reasonable rate if a liquidation is proposed, or even consider a merger or buyout of the corp. A H-TI alt may also consider running EMFI on your behalf, but these options need someone to run for CEO vote I think, unless trustees can step into the breech. My main (Shiva Shakti) is over three years old and has been in H-TI for a year and 4 months, where I have been helping to run the production of AATP T2 BPOs and have been making AATP at least 3 billion a month in dividend income which must be building up in the corp wallet I hope). EMFI I have an alt in EMFI on an inactive account which I will reactivate and look at the books if he has this ability. Again I will feed back any findings (cash in wallet etc). I also own almost 5% of the corps shares and would consider running for CEO and managing the organization in Naph's/ EMFI managers place/absence. My alt (Mesmerism) has been in EMFI for almost a year. He was the external auditor for IPOs that EMFI considered investing in (like zero.), but as he has not done any investing for ages so my skills were not required (therefore the account stagnated). I will reactivate this account if people here think it would be a good idea for me to run for CEO and take over the work. If all assets are still in place I'm sure that it will be in a position to pay out dividends again almost immediately. Even if not I will work it so that dividend income is returned to shareholders if successfully gaining over 50% of shareholder support when running for CEO. Please eve mail Shiva Shakti if you have suggestions or would want to support my idea to run (until I reactivate my EMFI character). Many thanks, Shiva Shakti (H-TI) Visit the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange in game or out
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.07.09 15:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Ricdic Why can't he just log on once, pass all assets across to someone, and have them handle it? Institute a trustee as CEO, and be done with it? Yeah it would be great if he could just make my alt (Mesmerism) CEO and then I can get on with producing monthly statements and paying dividends etc. Naph if your reading this then I'm happy to run this thing 4 you until you get interest back. Visit the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange in game or out
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.09 15:45:00 - [12] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/07/2007 15:44:53 Originally by: Shiva Shakti I feel the time has come to introduce myself properly and try and help out with the AATP/EMFI situation. I have many interest in making AATP/EMFI work, not only to try and get some value from the 8 billion in shares I have in them, but also to keep the player driven share market going as if these two fall it would have massive impacts upon trust levels etc. Having met Naph in person I doubt itÆs a scam and that RL has just proved much more interesting than eve. So H-TI are trying to manage the situation in case he has left the game/having a very long break. So heres how I think we can helpà One of the directors of Hi ûTech Industries (H-TI) tried to contact Naph/EMFI manager by phone over the weekend; I await their response and will attempt to post the results here. AATP AATP dividends should be quite safe if they have kept the shares they own in the corp wallet. These shares should pay close to 6billion a month in dividends (3,000 STUFF shares 9,000 H-TI Shares and 21 billion in cash at last count), although STUFF and H-TI has been suffering from the recent T2 downturn. I'm sure that H-TI (or its members) would consider buying back their shares at a reasonable rate if a liquidation is proposed, or even consider a merger or buyout of the corp. A H-TI alt may also consider running EMFI on your behalf, but these options need someone to run for CEO vote I think, unless trustees can step into the breech. My main (Shiva Shakti) is over three years old and has been in H-TI for a year and 4 months, where I have been helping to run the production of AATP T2 BPOs and have been making AATP at least 3 billion a month in dividend income which must be building up in the corp wallet I hope). EMFI I have an alt in EMFI on an inactive account which I will reactivate and look at the books if he has this ability. Again I will feed back any findings (cash in wallet etc). I also own almost 5% of the corps shares and would consider running for CEO and managing the organization in Naph's/ EMFI managers place/absence. My alt (Mesmerism) has been in EMFI for almost a year. He was the external auditor for IPOs that EMFI considered investing in (like zero.), but as he has not done any investing for ages so my skills were not required (therefore the account stagnated). I will reactivate this account if people here think it would be a good idea for me to run for CEO and take over the work. If all assets are still in place I'm sure that it will be in a position to pay out dividends again almost immediately. Even if not I will work it so that dividend income is returned to shareholders if successfully gaining over 50% of shareholder support when running for CEO. Please eve mail Shiva Shakti if you have suggestions or would want to support my idea to run (until I reactivate my EMFI character). Many thanks, Shiva Shakti (H-TI) I would endorse this: H-TI is both competent and trustworthy and have been around longer than almost any other public (well, in this case semi-public) corporation in EVE. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:00:00 - [13] I would probably prefer to see one done at a time. Nothing against Shiva but I don't know him/her from a bar of soap. I don't mind ie EMFi being liquidated, and then upon successful liquidation having Shiv then deal with AATP. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.07.09 17:09:00 - [14] Regarding Shiva Shakti taking over : Quote: The trustees have got the junior accountant role for auditing purposses and can run for CEO if they acrue 5% of the shares (in the case of the chairman and fundmanagers getting hit by a bus). Linkage So there is a mandate for her to take over as CEO if both Naph and Zzazzt agree to it. And I for one am for it, providing another trustee is chosen to replace Shiva. So we simply need to wait a decision from either EMFI or Zzazzt as both have the power to make it and enforce it. Regarding AATP and H-TI : Quote: 1) our BPO's move to H-T industries and will be locked down by my CEO there. 2) H-T industries shares will move to AATP Wallet (will contain, CAPII share, HT Shares and STUFF shares) 3) Capital Retention will happen in H-T industries and no longer in AATP 4) Dividends will be paid out over the complete AATP wallet 5) The componets in AATP will be sold to HT Linkage So there is no need to liquidate, as everything is still operating as planned. The only thing that has not happened is dividends have not been paid out and H-TI does not have access to the 21b sitting in the AATP wallet. This is under discussion now within H-TI so we simply need to await their decision. For both corporations I feel confident we will see some sort of closure before the end of the month. \| Free Research On BS BPOs \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2007.07.09 18:18:00 - [15] Even if things are running normal, with the change of hands I would like a buyback option to be presented to shareholders wishing to cash out.
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.07.09 18:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Even if things are running normal, with the change of hands I would like a buyback option to be presented to shareholders wishing to cash out. This request is covered in EMFI by the following : Quote: 90/110 rule: Pending availability of liquid cash EMFI will provide buyorders @ 90% of NAV for EMFI shares. If liquid cash runs out EMFI will try and liquidate some assets in order to provide these buyorders. Pending availability of shares EMFI has the option to sell shares to the open market through sellorders. However it must do this at minimal 110% NAV. Linkage There is no buyback strategy for AATP, though, and considering AATP is now merely a holder of 9k shares in H-TI it is up to them what to do. \| Free Research On BS BPOs \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.09 20:02:00 - [17] Originally by: Ricdic I would probably prefer to see one done at a time. Nothing against Shiva but I don't know him/her from a bar of soap. I don't mind ie EMFi being liquidated, and then upon successful liquidation having Shiv then deal with AATP. Um, H-TI controls all of AATP assets, for one... so you better know H-TI from a bar of soap 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.07.09 20:06:00 - [18] Edited by: Shiva Shakti on 09/07/2007 20:08:19 Hello again Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Even if things are running normal, with the change of hands I would like a buyback option to be presented to shareholders wishing to cash out. Naph had a buyback option in place @ 6,000 isk per share, this is likely to be a low figure compared to current NAV (Net Asset Value). This option could be reinstated but obviously needs someone to put it in place. As the accounts have not been publicly presented in a portfolio/balance sheet style since 15th September 2006 it is difficult to estimate what the current NAV value is, although Naph/EMFI manager gave it a value of approx 7,500 isk a few months ago. My first tasks would be to: access the NAV of what is in the fund; present this as a portfolio; and then put it up for discussion with the shareholders as to the best way forward i.e. buyback or closure... There should be some sizable funds by my estimation (assuming no asset stripping has occurred) as dividend payments have been forthcoming from: 1. AATP itself (when payment had been made until a couple of months ago); 2. H-TI (EMFI's holding in H-TI has been paid an approx average of 220mil a month for at least a year); 3. ISSO; and 4. zero. (which EMFI owns 20% of) to name but a few So it may be reasonable to say that the NAV and therefore the buyback value will be increased. This should also be balanced with other options at the time we have more info on the state of play. In answer to other questions I agree that we should approach one at a time, not just from a trust view point, but also from a practical one as EMFI is such a sizeable AATP shareholding that getting over 50% votes for AATP based decisions would be difficult without this support (EMFI holds at least 15% of AATP at last count). I will also ask Zzazzt to share his wisdom with us in this thread and see what we can come up with Shiva Visit the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange in game or out
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2007.07.09 20:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Shiva Shakti So it may be reasonable to say that the NAV and therefore the buyback value will be increased. This should also be balanced with other options at the time we have more info on the state of play....... This is what I was getting at, that the buyback value should be assessed and voted on before an option of closure is brought to the table.
Mesmerism	Posted - 2007.07.09 22:32:00 - [20] OK peeps (Shiva here) I have reactivated my EMFI character account and it would seem I do not have Junior account status and cannot examine the "books" too closely. What I can say is that Naph seems to have been doing OK as there is 8,080,592,279 isk in corps master wallet (which I don't have access to). This must just be recent dividend payments and will work out where it has come from and therefore share holdings from the dividend payments divided by the dividend per share...I might even attempt to create a "portfolio" ...but at the moment my eyes are going square so this will be over the next day or two
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.07.10 02:12:00 - [21] Hmm... I am kind of interested in the "Liquidation" part, specifically - if it goes that way - in how the assets will be liquidated? If it is a public auction or such, perhaps pickup a few bargains, gnaw on some bones, that sort of a thing...
Marodi Julita Sublime Captial Investments	Posted - 2007.07.10 04:07:00 - [22] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/07/2007 15:44:53 Originally by: Shiva Shakti I feel the time has come to introduce myself properly and try and help out with the AATP/EMFI situation. I have many interest in making AATP/EMFI work, not only to try and get some value from the 8 billion in shares I have in them, but also to keep the player driven share market going as if these two fall it would have massive impacts upon trust levels etc. Having met Naph in person I doubt itÆs a scam and that RL has just proved much more interesting than eve. So H-TI are trying to manage the situation in case he has left the game/having a very long break. So heres how I think we can helpà One of the directors of Hi ûTech Industries (H-TI) tried to contact Naph/EMFI manager by phone over the weekend; I await their response and will attempt to post the results here. AATP AATP dividends should be quite safe if they have kept the shares they own in the corp wallet. These shares should pay close to 6billion a month in dividends (3,000 STUFF shares 9,000 H-TI Shares and 21 billion in cash at last count), although STUFF and H-TI has been suffering from the recent T2 downturn. I'm sure that H-TI (or its members) would consider buying back their shares at a reasonable rate if a liquidation is proposed, or even consider a merger or buyout of the corp. A H-TI alt may also consider running EMFI on your behalf, but these options need someone to run for CEO vote I think, unless trustees can step into the breech. My main (Shiva Shakti) is over three years old and has been in H-TI for a year and 4 months, where I have been helping to run the production of AATP T2 BPOs and have been making AATP at least 3 billion a month in dividend income which must be building up in the corp wallet I hope). EMFI I have an alt in EMFI on an inactive account which I will reactivate and look at the books if he has this ability. Again I will feed back any findings (cash in wallet etc). I also own almost 5% of the corps shares and would consider running for CEO and managing the organization in Naph's/ EMFI managers place/absence. My alt (Mesmerism) has been in EMFI for almost a year. He was the external auditor for IPOs that EMFI considered investing in (like zero.), but as he has not done any investing for ages so my skills were not required (therefore the account stagnated). I will reactivate this account if people here think it would be a good idea for me to run for CEO and take over the work. If all assets are still in place I'm sure that it will be in a position to pay out dividends again almost immediately. Even if not I will work it so that dividend income is returned to shareholders if successfully gaining over 50% of shareholder support when running for CEO. Please eve mail Shiva Shakti if you have suggestions or would want to support my idea to run (until I reactivate my EMFI character). Many thanks, Shiva Shakti (H-TI) I would endorse this: H-TI is both competent and trustworthy and have been around longer than almost any other public (well, in this case semi-public) corporation in EVE. I agree. I mean, otherwise emfi and aatp are worth zero ISK. Atleast this way, even though a gamble cause i don't know of shiva through the game, but atleast there's a possibility that i'd get something. I've already written them off the books anyways.
Smartacus Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:56:00 - [23] Can't the bastard just login and take care of his business and be done with it. Sad situation again imho.
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:56:00 - [24] Small update (I haven't been able to get on my account yet) but the following should be on EMFi: ItemNumber AATP1682852 ZERO.2250 BMBE393 ISSO425 EMFI883211 C-R-A144000 FIN589490 H-TI555 LYO287500 T2AHL116 SHMEC3000 TCCS966442 PCT992 C-P-H500000 + the wallet (according to Shiva just over 8b) This totals somewhere between 74 and 78b -- Why is this less then the 78b reported 6 months ago? Well.. That is mostly the "big oops" from BMBE, where their NAV was reported somewhere around 84b instead of the 104b a bit before. My intentions are to have Shiva take over EMFi (as provided for in the charter, though I think it requires a shareholder vote, will look into this) And if DS wants, DS to take over AATP (or at least hold the 9k HT shares and the 20-30b cash to play around with) There isn't really a provisioning for this in the charter, so I am open to other suggestions as well.. :) Cheers
Smartacus Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.10 12:04:00 - [25] Maybe I spoke to soon. I'm sorry but I just have strong feelings about this.
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:09:00 - [26] Originally by: EMFi Manager My intentions are to have Shiva take over EMFi (as provided for in the charter, though I think it requires a shareholder vote, will look into this) And if DS wants, DS to take over AATP (or at least hold the 9k HT shares and the 20-30b cash to play around with) There isn't really a provisioning for this in the charter, so I am open to other suggestions as well.. :) Cheers Shiva and I had a fairly long conversation the other day about what can and should be done. I think in these circumstances that the shareholder's rights should supercede those given to them in the charter. That isn't meant to be a personal attack, just trying to tell it how I see it, because EMFI and AATP have been 'dead' for a few months now, and many people have already written it off as a dead loss. I also think EMFI and AATP should be handled seperately, and here is my proposal as to what should happen. Naph, if you do manage to get in game, I would very much like to speak to you too, so please hit me up. EMFI Neutral party steps in, does an audit of the EMFI share portfolio, wallet, and the past few months of wallet transactions (dividends from owned stock). They present this information to the public, clearly outlining the current NAV of the corporation as well as the income it has recieved from the last few months of inactivity. The liquid cash should then be distributed as dividends to the shareholders and an updated NAV reported. With a clear understanding of how the fund has been performing in Naph's absence, a vote is held in which shareholders are presented with 3 (or 4) options. 1. Keep EMFI running and appoint a new manager. 2. Keep EMFI running as a static fund and appoint a caretaker to distribute dividends monthly. This would be reviewed again after 6 months. 3. Liquidate all shares held in the EMFI portfolio. This would be handled by a neutral third party acting as recievers of the corp and auctioning on EMFI assets over a period of time, to get the maximum return for investors without subjecting the market to a flood of shares. 4. If circumstances allow (eg the numbers involved line up fairly well) EMFI shares can be 'traded in' for a slice of the EMFI assets. This would change shareholder ownership of a variety of corps from an indirect ownership to a direct one. The main benefit for shareholders in this circumstance would be that the market would not be flooded with 70b worth of shares if liquidation were to occur. I will leave AATP for another time, depending on the response to this part.
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:25:00 - [27] Hey Ionia, First of all no neutral party will step in, for really 2 reasons. 1) I have nothing to prove 2) noone I don't trust touches the isk that was trusted to EMFI There are several auditors with good standing that can view wallet transactions and stock portfolio (I think OZ removed his from corp and shiva's roles lapsed I guess when the account was lapsed, though Fem should still be in there as should be Taladorn) I am only trying to handle it gracefully not because I want to build up a name to be able to do stuff in the future, but because it is the right thing to do. So frankly I am doing this for myself and the investors and don't really care what others think. Along the same line, I am gonna do what is right, and you can check with Eefrit how I interpret right.. right isn't what the loudest mouths on the forum say is right, but right is handling peoples interest according to the risk and rights they signed up for.. ie: the charter. Which automatically means: "Noone that is not named in the charter will ever touch, or influence any decisions of the fund, other then as a shareholder and then only for hte extend of his/her investment." To address your option specifically: 1) the liquid cash will be used for buybacks at 90% NAV (not distributed as dividends) till the NAV > 100b (counting walleted EMFI as 10k) when there is no more wish for selling back shares to EMFI, they will be used as cash reserves, ie: investments till dividends are feasable again. Also, as for EMFI being dead/stagnant noone was expecting dividends yet :) So in my oppinion there are really 2 options: 1) EMFI will keep running EMFI with the 90% buyback cash providing 2) A trustee will keep running EMFI after guaranteeing followthrough on the charter/rules Yes the charter is holy, becuase that is what people invested in, and I value that 100x as much as any random forum personality who has an oppinion :) Other than that, Thx Ionia ;) Oh as for AATP... there are really 2 issues. 1) The HT joint venture -: Really only needs someone that distributes the divvies of HT (existant) and STUFF (now no longer existant) 2) the Wallet: I am not sure exactly what is in there, but somewhere between 20 and 30b, really someone should make this isk work for them... that is something the CEO would manage, there are only a few that could/should do this .. Cheers!
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:34:00 - [28] Originally by: EMFi Manager Well.. That is mostly the "big oops" from BMBE, where their NAV was reported somewhere around 84b instead of the 104b a bit before. Why were/are the shares valued at NAV rather than market price? Regarding AATP, it is my opinion it should be liquidated. Nothing of the original charter remains. The two main players no longer have anything to do with the corporation, and it is no longer an investment in AATP and the BPOs it owns, but instead in H-TI and the shared ownership of BPOs. \| Free Research On BS BPOs \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:38:00 - [29] When I decided to leave Eve for a few months, I really didn't want to get hung up on details, I just wanted to get things sorted and go. Whilst it would be nice if everything had a due process, I think rather than EMFi getting fed up and just leaving, we should allow him to pass one corp to shiva and one to DS to handle the closure/continuation, and allow him to head off. Just coming back to finalise things was something I am guessing a decent amount of people wouldn't do. Personally, I think EMFi went on vacation and hooked up with some broad, and now he is whipped. I see it happen all the time, and it always relates in things like this happening (in RL scenarios). Got any pics EMFi? Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:57:00 - [30] Edited by: EMFi Manager on 10/07/2007 16:58:37 Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: EMFi Manager Well.. That is mostly the "big oops" from BMBE, where their NAV was reported somewhere around 84b instead of the 104b a bit before. Why were/are the shares valued at NAV rather than market price? Regarding AATP, it is my opinion it should be liquidated. Nothing of the original charter remains. The two main players no longer have anything to do with the corporation, and it is no longer an investment in AATP and the BPOs it owns, but instead in H-TI and the shared ownership of BPOs. 1) Hmmm, Well NAV and Marketprice aren't much different atm, before I had no intention of selling, so basically NAV is what counts (what to get in case of liquidation) Anyways, the 370 shares on the books went from 50-52 to 40-42m ... BTW, wasn't a jab at you Ray, just a clarification Why the 78b of Januari isn't 90b now but still 76-78b 2) Fair point on AATP, however keeping it running as it is has my preference, especially since liquidation could be messy (though not impossible) Also I think it is in the best interest of the shareholders to keep the corp running, rather then starting a firesale on some extremely fine T2 BPO's and give people back half-money... (remember that EMFI is also a major shareholder of AATP) Tada

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