EVE Search - Idea -- fix FRAPS stuttering and low FPS -- would people use this?

All Channels

My EVE

Idea -- fix FRAPS stuttering and low FPS -- would people use this?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:48:00 - [1] FRAPS stutters all the time. Sometimes your FPS is too low--maybe you're only getting 15 while FRAPSing when you want 30. Or maybe your footage just stutters a bit every once in a while. I'm thinking of making a little script/utility that could magically fill in the blanks to create smooth footage. But let's start from the beginning with an example: slow motion. Imagine I have a 30FPS video and I want to slow it down three times. The obvious way is to take this video: ABCD and make it into this: AAABBBCCCDDD Of course, that just means you're basically get 10 frames per second; it looks ugly. So you blend the frames together. But this means you get all sorts of nasty blurriness. And in the case we're looking at in particular (stutters) the blurring would just obscure the whole scene. Now imagine you could make a list of all the motion vectors between frames A and B: where each of the parts of the frame moves. Then you cut them to 1/3 of their value and you get the frame after A, and 2/3 of their value for the 2nd frame after A. Suddenly, your slow-motion video is smooth and accurate, yet your original video wasn't shot in slow motion! This technique is used professionally; for example, I believe some parts of certain TV series, such as Robot Chicken, have been "mocomp" framechanged for release on DVD, that is, they used motion compensation as I described. The programs to do this are often very very expensive and use massive amounts of CPU power. But there's a free one: MVTools. It could be used to turn stutters in videos into smooth motion, and even change crappy-FPS recordings into 30-FPS ones! Its not perfect, but it works quite well. Here's a demonstration of it turning a 30FPS video into a slow motion video 3 times slower, yet completely smooth: Linkage Imagine I made a very simple utility to automatically take a framerate (the framerate the FRAPS was intended to be at) and the original FRAPS, find all the duplicate frames caused by stutters/low FPS, and fill them in intelligently as was done in the above video for the slow motion (and allow export to any file type using VirtualDub). Would people use this? 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:58:00 - [2] Fukken first! --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
oodin R.A.G.N.A.R.O.K.	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:58:00 - [3] i have no idea what you talk about but i love to watch eve videos so i hope it works btw your doing a awesome work dark for the eve vid community and for this i give you tnx.
oodin R.A.G.N.A.R.O.K.	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:59:00 - [4] Originally by: lofty29 Fukken first! it was laaaaaag.dark wtf
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:04:00 - [5] Originally by: oodin i have no idea what you talk about but i love to watch eve videos so i hope it works btw your doing a awesome work dark for the eve vid community and for this i give you tnx. Thanks, I've rewritten the post a bit to make it more understandable. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:06:00 - [6] Wow. Just wow --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
oodin R.A.G.N.A.R.O.K.	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:07:00 - [7] Edited by: oodin on 10/07/2007 18:07:57 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: oodin i have no idea what you talk about but i love to watch eve videos so i hope it works btw your doing a awesome work dark for the eve vid community and for this i give you tnx. Thanks, I've rewritten the post a bit to make it more understandable. didnt help the colours in the abcd reminds me of jamaica
Das Forscher Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:09:00 - [8] very nice, can you link the original vid so we can compare directly? (lowed down to the same speed ofc) //------------------------------------------------------ Oveurs true identity revealed
ArtemisEntreri Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:10:00 - [9] Edited by: ArtemisEntreri on 10/07/2007 18:11:01 I would use this
Ather Ialeas Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:10:00 - [10] Rather...simple wall of text. To elaborate a bit further, vector blur is used sometimes when there just isn't enough time to do proper raytraced motion blur or rendering something like 1500 frames/second and then blend them together to get the desired result. Unlike you state however it doesn't actually require a lot of CPU power unless you want a one-button solution, using various tracking programs to calculate motion vectors and/or custom inhouse software usually yields a lot better results. The result of course will never be as good as real motion blur but in most cases it's enough to fool the eye. Heck, I've actually seen a sample where a simple morphing program was used to create a bullet time effect. This is a can of worms though, I'll be watching this thread with a smirk to see how people react to this. [ insert fancy sig here ]
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Das Forscher very nice, can you link the original vid so we can compare directly? (lowed down to the same speed ofc) Working on it, have to re-encode it. Won't take too long. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/07/2007 18:12:52 Originally by: Das Forscher using various tracking programs to calculate motion vectors That's exactly what this is. It does require a lot of CPU to do a proper motion search, at least an accurate one that is coherent enough to yield good results. That's why H.264 and VC-1 encoding takes so long on high settings. MVTools isn't as sophisticated as those encoders in terms of motion estimation but it works pretty well regardless. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:21:00 - [13] DS, you have too much time. And I thought they'd put that brain of yours to use in Israel ;) EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Ryysa DS, you have too much time. And I thought they'd put that brain of yours to use in Israel ;) Oh I'm working on quantum spin network simulation also. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Das Forscher Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/07/2007 18:13:55 Originally by: Das Forscher using various tracking programs to calculate motion vectors That's exactly what this is. It does require a lot of CPU to do a proper motion search, at least an accurate one that is coherent enough to yield good results. That's why H.264 and VC-1 encoding takes so long on high settings. MVTools isn't as sophisticated as those encoders in terms of motion estimation but it works pretty well regardless. The main disadvantage (and also why its so fast in comparison) is that it uses halfpel-precision logarithmic motion search. The halfpel isn't a big issue with EVE videos due to their high resolution to begin with, though the motion search isn't as good as hexagon or uneven multi-hexagon methods used in x264. I doubt I said that, unless your quoting from my subconscious thoughts sounds like a very nice program, I think I can imagine how it works (basically) tbh sounds tempting to try and write it myself(which will probably fail misrably) //------------------------------------------------------ Oveurs true identity revealed
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:35:00 - [16] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/07/2007 18:35:21 Originally by: Das Forscher Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/07/2007 18:13:55 Originally by: Das Forscher using various tracking programs to calculate motion vectors That's exactly what this is. It does require a lot of CPU to do a proper motion search, at least an accurate one that is coherent enough to yield good results. That's why H.264 and VC-1 encoding takes so long on high settings. MVTools isn't as sophisticated as those encoders in terms of motion estimation but it works pretty well regardless. The main disadvantage (and also why its so fast in comparison) is that it uses halfpel-precision logarithmic motion search. The halfpel isn't a big issue with EVE videos due to their high resolution to begin with, though the motion search isn't as good as hexagon or uneven multi-hexagon methods used in x264. I doubt I said that, unless your quoting from my subconscious thoughts sounds like a very nice program, I think I can imagine how it works (basically) tbh sounds tempting to try and write it myself(which will probably fail misrably) The motion search itself is extremely easy: you just compare blocks with the current block using a metric such as SAD. These metrics are usually very simple to code, i.e. a couple lines of code. You then pick the best motion vector by picking the best metric value. The entire program could fit in a few dozen lines of code. Maybe four if you used perl. What makes a good program like this hard is two things: a) motion search doesn't create motion coherency; that is, you'll have some blocks just randomly flying all over, so you have to code it to try to avoid that. b) MVtools and any program that does what it does has to do the motion compensation on a pixel-by-pixel level even though the motion search is done on a block-by-block level. This isn't that easy. Of course, since the program is already written for us... 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Zoea Minmatar Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:02:00 - [17] go on dark you know you wanna try this :)
Sylek Amarr The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:10:00 - [18] Hell yeah! I would totally use this. I've been wondering for so long about if there was an easy-to-get application that could do this, and I think a number of other people must have too. Go DS \o/.
AlleyKat Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:39:00 - [19] Time Compression, yummy. Kudos (again) to Dark for looking at this. Adobe After Effects has this feature built-in. You can literally take a 10 second piece of footage and expand it to 5 minutes long, and After Effects will interpolate the frames and blend them together pixel by pixel - it's impressive stuff. You can also take the same piece of footage and alter the speed throughout the footage. For example, you have 300 frames and can decide to run the first 100 frames at 1000% percent of normal playback, and then at frame 101 drop the speed to 1% of normal playback, and at frame 201 speed the footage back upto 100% for the remaining 99 frames. Only downside is a) You need After Effects and b)Render time. I'd say if you can offer people the chance to improve choppy playback, there is gonna be interest in that alone, but to be able to offer them the chance of super-slow motion without any noticable quality loss would be awesome. AK. NEW VID
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:47:00 - [20] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/07/2007 19:47:27 Originally by: AlleyKat Time Compression, yummy. Kudos (again) to Dark for looking at this. Adobe After Effects has this feature built-in. You can literally take a 10 second piece of footage and expand it to 5 minutes long, and After Effects will interpolate the frames and blend them together pixel by pixel - it's impressive stuff. You can also take the same piece of footage and alter the speed throughout the footage. For example, you have 300 frames and can decide to run the first 100 frames at 1000% percent of normal playback, and then at frame 101 drop the speed to 1% of normal playback, and at frame 201 speed the footage back upto 100% for the remaining 99 frames. Only downside is a) You need After Effects and b)Render time. I'd say if you can offer people the chance to improve choppy playback, there is gonna be interest in that alone, but to be able to offer them the chance of super-slow motion without any noticable quality loss would be awesome. AK. Isn't that frame blending, not motion-compensation? I don't think any Adobe product has mocomp framechanging; I've used the feature in Premiere and it looks like standard frameblending to me. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Grainsalt Free Corp	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:54:00 - [21] 100% .. I have serious issues having to reshoot stuff due to FRAPS running at 10fps and dragging things. ---
XoPhyte Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.10 20:30:00 - [22] Could you make eve stutter less while you are at it, that would really fix the problem . On a serious note, I am a programmer but know very little (ok none) about how video files and streams work, so I find it fascinating when you post stuff like this and think it's pretty cool that you keep creating these programs. I for one would love to use something like this as I do record a lot of battles and when I watch them afterwards trying to imagine putting together a short flick I always start to discard the parts that "stutter" as you put it, which sadly is some of the best parts.
AlleyKat Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/07/2007 19:47:27 Originally by: AlleyKat blah blah blah Isn't that frame blending, not motion-compensation? I don't think any Adobe product has mocomp framechanging; I've used the feature in Premiere and it looks like standard frameblending to me. Depending on the quality you want, it has three levels to choose from. Whole frames, where it will duplicate the previous frame; Frame mix, where it blurs the difference between the last frame and the new one; and Pixel motion, which will render as many new frames as required based on motion vectors by analyzing the pixel movement of nearby frames. There is another downside I've remembered, when used in combination with motion blur effects, it can screw up the edges of some images. If you still have that recruitment film I did a few weeks ago, you can see this distortion at time 00:20 - 00:23 when the monolith comes into shot. This was a reverse time compression shot using pixel motion and motion blur, I just left it in because it was so brief, but looking at it frame by frame, it looks really bad. AK. NEW VID
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.11 00:52:00 - [24] Simply... amazing - Recruitment open again-
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.11 04:37:00 - [25] Originally by: AlleyKat Originally by: Dark Shikari Depending on the quality you want, it has three levels to choose from. Whole frames, where it will duplicate the previous frame; Frame mix, where it blurs the difference between the last frame and the new one; and Pixel motion, which will render as many new frames as required based on motion vectors by analyzing the pixel movement of nearby frames. There is another downside I've remembered, when used in combination with motion blur effects, it can screw up the edges of some images. If you still have that recruitment film I did a few weeks ago, you can see this distortion at time 00:20 - 00:23 when the monolith comes into shot. This was a reverse time compression shot using pixel motion and motion blur, I just left it in because it was so brief, but looking at it frame by frame, it looks really bad. AK. That is very nice. I guess it doesn't do what I'm looking for (intelligent frame removal and replacement) but neither does MVTools; I'll basically have to program a script to pick the dupes and apply the frame replacement for each one. I didn't know that After Effects had mocomp framechanging: that is a damn nice feature. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Elektrea Minmatar Happy hOur Mining and industry Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:53:00 - [26] I would use it =D
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.11 16:41:00 - [27] Would I use it? Dude! I get like 3-5 FPS in bigger battles these days, what you think??!? Also, a follow up question, IF you made this software, after it is done "reparing" fraps and you have your slow motion scene could I then take into Premiere/Vegas and speed it up? Without messing up quality or causing other issues? For example: I have around 4GB of FRAPS from a huge and very entertaining fight with BRUCE. The problem is that the FPS is like...3-15 and its hard to make use of that. What if that was fixed so it was smooth (but slow motion I guess?) and then I could take that into Premiere, cut it up and speed up the clips to make it interesting? Would that work? /Lowa ps. DS for PRESIDENT (over what ever EVE Empire you see fit)! What if the truth was something else?
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.11 17:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Lowa Would I use it? Dude! I get like 3-5 FPS in bigger battles these days, what you think??!? Also, a follow up question, IF you made this software, after it is done "reparing" fraps and you have your slow motion scene could I then take into Premiere/Vegas and speed it up? Without messing up quality or causing other issues? For example: I have around 4GB of FRAPS from a huge and very entertaining fight with BRUCE. The problem is that the FPS is like...3-15 and its hard to make use of that. What if that was fixed so it was smooth (but slow motion I guess?) and then I could take that into Premiere, cut it up and speed up the clips to make it interesting? Would that work? /Lowa ps. DS for PRESIDENT (over what ever EVE Empire you see fit)! Dont see why it wouldn't work, assuming that it would simply output the file in a pure 30fps (or whatver you want) footage that can then be reinserted into premiere. I've done similar stuff before with After Effect's version of per pixel motion, slowing stuff down and speeding it up.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.11 18:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Lowa Would I use it? Dude! I get like 3-5 FPS in bigger battles these days, what you think??!? Also, a follow up question, IF you made this software, after it is done "reparing" fraps and you have your slow motion scene could I then take into Premiere/Vegas and speed it up? Without messing up quality or causing other issues? For example: I have around 4GB of FRAPS from a huge and very entertaining fight with BRUCE. The problem is that the FPS is like...3-15 and its hard to make use of that. What if that was fixed so it was smooth (but slow motion I guess?) and then I could take that into Premiere, cut it up and speed up the clips to make it interesting? Would that work? Well lets say you're going to speed it up 50%, for example. Then you convert the FPS to 20, instead of 30. Then the speedup to 30 FPS becomes lossless; no blending required in Premiere. Originally by: Lowa ps. DS for PRESIDENT (over what ever EVE Empire you see fit)! I choose Jita 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Niina Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.12 02:24:00 - [30] If my HD would co-operate even a bit and record the damn fraps whit better than 1 FPS, i would use it :) i have similar issues that Lowa did explain, had good fraps of nice battles, just to see that FPS dropped in few key moments to 15 from forced 30 resulting in less data = quality loss when speeded up, and if i understood correctly this thing would fix exactly that ?

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.