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Do you consider this simple corp theft, or faulty game mechanics?

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Rebscout	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:22:00 - [1] Corp hangars are set up with "Vault" as the first division (ID 0) and only directors have "Take" access. "Query" access is limited to a few people who do research and building from BPOs stored there. All others hangars are less secure, allowing "Take" access to virtually everyone. Three BPOs are put in ME research with the vault listed as the input/output hangar. Revelations 2.0 hits, complete with hangar access bug. With this bug, no one can access any corp hangar unless they have permission to take from hangar 0. Hangars get reorganized and renamed. Now hangar 0 is one of the wide open ones, and hangar 5 is now named "Vault" and is fully restricted. This was done PURELY as a work around for CCP's bugged hangar access. The three ME research jobs finish, and they are delivered. Since research jobs are always done from/to the Vault, no one thinks to see which hangar the BPOs are actually in. Eventually, someone notices that the BPOs are missing and an investigation is started. It is hoped that the BPOs are in a broken hangar similar to the expired office problem and a petition is created. 12 days later (/grumble) the reply comes back that the BPOs are in the hands of a character who does not belong to our corporation. So, if you were in this hypothetical (haha) situation, would you press the matter further? Do you consider it normal corp theft, or faulty game mechanics?
Fenren	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:25:00 - [2] corp theft but that doesnt make it suck any less Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Jita Alt	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:49:00 - [3] Both, it was taken by a corp thief because it was made possible through faulty game mechanics
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.11 14:01:00 - [4] Corp theft. The output is set by the ID of the hangar, not by the name. When you reorganized the hangars you allowed this to happen. Learn from it and rebuild. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
gfldex Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:24:00 - [5] As long as you didn't made it clear that the stuff in that hangar belongs to your corp and should not change ownership (chat logs please) you can not call it theft. Anyway, petition it but don't expect to get you stuff back. From my experience GMs are lot allowed to use their brains and it is rather unlikely that this rare case in already in their books. -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:26:00 - [6] we petitioned it and had that fixed btw ------
kimish	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:56:00 - [7] well corp stealing is actually a exploit if you know what the word means. it was not a implemented feature that was INTENDED to be used to steal from the corp. but well, as long as ccp sits with their hands up their a.. you might as well drop it
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:59:00 - [8] Petition that. ----------
Pakalolo Tha Shiznit	Posted - 2007.07.11 16:02:00 - [9] as I read your post it was clear to me the bp would be delivered to hanger 0 regardless of what you name it. the person who delivered probably should have checked. no one thinks to see which hangar the BPOs are actually in. corp theft.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.11 16:06:00 - [10] Yeah you got robbed. As a few other people stated the BP gets delivered to the hanger ID not the name of the hanger. If it was the name of the hanger, and you changed the hanger name mid-production, all of EVE would end. --- Put in space whales!
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.11 16:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Rebscout would you press the matter further Not much else to do (except to name the thief to warn future corps, if you have reasonable proof of his name). Although CCP can be held responsible for direct consequences of bugs, hard to blame them about situations caused by workaround. It seems in principle to similar to: "A bug made my transport ship unusable for 2 days so I had to fly my freighter instead but lost it to gatecamp. Should CCP replace it?" Hope you recover fine. -Lasse
Rebscout	Posted - 2007.07.12 00:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Heikki Originally by: Rebscout would you press the matter further Not much else to do (except to name the thief to warn future corps, if you have reasonable proof of his name). Although CCP can be held responsible for direct consequences of bugs, hard to blame them about situations caused by workaround. It seems in principle to similar to: "A bug made my transport ship unusable for 2 days so I had to fly my freighter instead but lost it to gatecamp. Should CCP replace it?" Hope you recover fine. -Lasse We are deep in 0.0, and 30 to 40 people depend very heavily on those hangars. Losing access made it virtually impossible for a lot of those people to play the game. We certainly couldn't tell them to log back on in a couple of weeks to see if CCP had fixed it yet. By the way, has it been fixed yet? Next, we don't exactly shuffle the corp hangars around every week. Not counting this one emergency change, I'm only aware of one other change to the corp hangar structure in the last year, and it did not involve our Vault at all. If this had happened because we switched our hangars around for our own amusement, I wouldn't have petitioned at all. If someone who had access to take from the Vault had made off with them, it would have been our mistake. I think that our circumstances are sufficiently different from normal carelessness or fraud, but then again my friends spent weeks saving to buy them and months researching them; I'm obviously biased. Oh, and to Pakalolo and Lisento Slaven, at this point I know more than I'd ever wanted to about how lab jobs and hangar IDs really work. What happened is perfectly logical and makes 100% sense, to a computer, but to a human it is a very painful metaphor shear. Oh, and if you take the hangar IDs too seriously, all the people who forgot to pay their office rents while they had jobs in progress should lose them permanently and without recourse. After all, the game did exactly what it was supposed to do, deliver the BP to the hangar ID in the database.
Chelone	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:58:00 - [13] If I were you, I'd suspect anyone who could have known in advance when the BPOs were scheduled to finish and pop into the hangar...
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:17:00 - [14] Since the theft was made possible not by the bug itself but by your actions in reaction to the bug, I'd say it shouldn't get replaced. ------------------
Waterfowl Democracy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:12:00 - [15] Got your nose.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:45:00 - [16] Edited by: Phelan Driscoll on 13/07/2007 00:52:29 Edited by: Phelan Driscoll on 13/07/2007 00:45:06 its me im the corp thief in the op And I have proof. __________________________________________________ Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No.
Toyal Wiulaz Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:04:00 - [17] Originally by: kimish well corp stealing is actually a exploit if you know what the word means. it was not a implemented feature that was INTENDED to be used to steal from the corp. but well, as long as ccp sits with their hands up their a.. you might as well drop it We have a winner! *btw I'm kidding! ----------------------------------------- I speak QC tabarnak! QC 4tw! :)
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:18:00 - [18] Simple corp theft aided by buggy assed software. But in the end, simple corp theft. The buggy software is like bad weather. A random variable mucking about with your plans. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
OHGODSPIES	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:24:00 - [19] Oh hello there RISE alt, fancy meeting you here. In other, completely unrelated news, the producers at GS HQ have started producing cheap Drakes, Myrms and Hurricanes. :)
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.13 03:00:00 - [20] my heart goes out to you, RISE, and this is for real
hammyhamm	Posted - 2007.07.13 03:47:00 - [21] MY drake!
Jarryn Kell Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:22:00 - [22] this is sad. would you like a candy?
Valdis Corick GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:29:00 - [23] Edited by: Valdis Corick on 13/07/2007 05:28:47 da thief was nate hammertown. the guy's a friggin ninja-shadow. You blink and poof all your s*** is gone. That's what happened to our entire cap fleet :( snip Inappropriate signature. But remember, we don't censor our fanbase
Cybarite Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.07.13 06:27:00 - [24] definitely theft, the game mechanic was clear, someone screwed up and left assets unsecured, all I can say is try to figure out who and publicize it, both an effective punishment, and a community service. You may log out, but you can never leave
Benvolio GrrrKrishnakk GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:03:00 - [25] You got robbed, and it's hilarious. I've already put in an order for an at-cost myrmidon. Thanks for putting the research in! ----- Signature removed, please don't discuss moderation on the forums. -Ivan K
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:18:00 - [26] You should've fired up MSN and checked with devs what the latest bugs are. I mean, you can't expect CCP to actually make proper documentation and announce major issues. It is YOUR responsibility to check hundreds of threads and read useless patch notes which don't give any details
Alyssee	Posted - 2007.07.13 08:16:00 - [27] At first I felt bad for you. But seeing this is RISE, I don't care. Hilarious indeed.
arkarsk Provenance.	Posted - 2007.07.13 08:21:00 - [28] rise? more like sink hahaaha am i right guys, am i right? ----------------- Provenance.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.13 09:09:00 - [29] Edited by: Berrik Radhok on 13/07/2007 09:09:17 efb Originally by: Khavi Vetali Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.
Slykette	Posted - 2007.07.13 10:30:00 - [30] Originally by: Rebscout Corp hangars are set up with "Vault" as the first division (ID 0) and only directors have "Take" access. "Query" access is limited to a few people who do research and building from BPOs stored there. All others hangars are less secure, allowing "Take" access to virtually everyone. Three BPOs are put in ME research with the vault listed as the input/output hangar. Revelations 2.0 hits, complete with hangar access bug. With this bug, no one can access any corp hangar unless they have permission to take from hangar 0. Hangars get reorganized and renamed. Now hangar 0 is one of the wide open ones, and hangar 5 is now named "Vault" and is fully restricted. This was done PURELY as a work around for CCP's bugged hangar access. The three ME research jobs finish, and they are delivered. Since research jobs are always done from/to the Vault, no one thinks to see which hangar the BPOs are actually in. Eventually, someone notices that the BPOs are missing and an investigation is started. It is hoped that the BPOs are in a broken hangar similar to the expired office problem and a petition is created. 12 days later (/grumble) the reply comes back that the BPOs are in the hands of a character who does not belong to our corporation. So, if you were in this hypothetical (haha) situation, would you press the matter further? Do you consider it normal corp theft, or faulty game mechanics? I would consider it faulty game mechanics, but good luck getting anyone at CCP to admit to making a mistake. Chances are they will say you are the one that is at fault and its your problem.

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