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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.07.16 23:43:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Lord Loom
I'm just amazed by the amount of trolls who think they know anything about capital ships posting "use a fitting mod" here, seriously, WTS clue...
Originally by: King Dave
Idiot, pheonix is overpowered...
[...]
Did i mention pheonixs can hit ships while in siege.....
this pro was already adressed, still I'd like to point out that while citadel torpedoes do hit while in siege, they don't exactly do much damage to moving targets because siege mode also drops their explosion velocity, so maybe before making up crap about capitals you obviously have no experience with, STFU?
I'd just like to point out that i can back this up, went head to head with a phoenix in siege mode, in my hyperion with 60% alround resistances, i was moving at a mere 80m/s, and his Thor citadel torpedoes were hitting for 0.5 damage, (seriously not joking, the guy even posted the logs in local) take into account missile damages dont vary like turrets, and missiles dont hit better for targets being further away/closer in, unlike turrets do, the phoenix is already gimped in ways of firepower being that its limited as-is, ontop of its increadable CPU issues, where no other dread has trouble fitting the same type of settup.
Conclussion -
Yes, they CAN hit moving ships in sieged -better-
No, they DONT have the upper hand in that way, as their damage is WAY less than if a turret got that hit.
No, a Phoenix cant hit JACK going faster than their missiles max speed, at all, unless the target suddenly stops, no matter what range they are at.
Yes, turret dreads have a -slight- advantage at hitting moving targets for decent damage.
Yes, The phoenix has fitting issues, VERY big ones.
None of the others have as serious issues, end of, no more, finate.
-
The mods shall not have my sig, if they do i'll kill CCP's hamsters.
kill 'em! we have backup gerbils  - Deckard
*kills any rodents of any kind for good measure* ha!
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.17 00:26:00 -
[62]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
No I am quiet serious.
yeah i wish you were quiet |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.17 00:31:00 -
[63]
Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 17/07/2007 00:33:00
Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 17/07/2007 00:31:13
Quote:
And last words once again get some experience please, you donĘt fight at 180km nor can torps go that far. 132km max range that takes 2 min to get there and they are dead when the torp gets there. Notice how no one agrees with you?
Quote:
The Phoenix has the worst range, it's called long range ammo that hits 200km+. A torp will go about 150-175km and take over 2 minutes to get there which by that time turret based dreads will have killed any capital out there.
Quote:
Yes it does because the Torp wonĘt get there lol Once again experience wins. Max range is 132km gg.
Yeah funny cause your experience initially said 150-170km gg.
Show me a dread that outdamages Phoenix at 130km.
Quote:
And last words once again get some experience please, you donĘt fight at 180km nor can torps go that far. 132km max range that takes 2 min to get there and they are dead when the torp gets there. Notice how no one agrees with you?
Yeah I notice how CCP agrees with me, and generally doesnt cave to whiners like you.
If your sieging a POS your torps will get there just fine. And you talk to me like i'm unaware of the caldari missle problem? Please, I've flown caldari ships my whole eave career and I know the feeling of watching your missles fly there to only have the target die before they hit. ITs funny because you knew what you were getting into training a phoenix. You had to be aware of missle flight time issues, yet you trained it anyways and now procede to whine about it. If the moros is so appealing to you, why didn't you train it?! I would choose the phoenix over the moros any day, even with its 'gimped' fitting which when you compare its stats to any other dreads fitting, its pretty damn equal. Also noone stops you from using your races other native weapon if you want a monstrous tank.
Phoenix is fine as it is and hopefully ccp doesnt change it.
Quote:
yeah i wish you were quiet
I wish you would post something of value other then trolling.
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Xeliya
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.17 00:55:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Xeliya on 17/07/2007 01:04:13
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Show me a dread that outdamages Phoenix at 130km.
All of them, it takes 3 min to make back the damage any of them have if the target is 100km+. No ships last more then 2 min, Hell motherships only take 2 min to kill.
As for my experience I am sorry I don't memorize exact numbers, it's called a ballpark figure. Much better estimation then someone who said it had the longest range lol. Rest of the dreads can hit at 200km but guess what? No one cares because fights with capitals at that range happen once in a blue moon.
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Also noone stops you from using your races other native weapon if you want a monstrous tank.
You relize the tank is less then a Rev if you could fit the 2nd PDU? Yes very monstrous! Let's not forget 3 months of training another races capital guns lol . . .
So what capital do you fly again? Cause I got a Chimera and a Phoenix then a Niddy and Nag on my alt and the Nag is so much better to fly. I soon should have Gallente caps to replace my Caldari ones since they are all gimped.
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.17 01:06:00 -
[65]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
I wish you would post something of value other then trolling.
When you think everyone in a thread is trolling but you, it may be a good idea to reexamine your perspective.
I have a couple questions for the cap pilots here. (I don't fly them yet, still working on my small ship skills.)
1. If you fire a citadel while in siege mode and you exit siege mode while the torp is in flight, does it get the siege mode bonuses? (If not, this would shave ~2 minutes off a citadel launcher's effectiveness in siege)
2. If you fire a torp and then enter siege (or exit and then reenter siege) does the siege bonus apply then?
_____
Heat Warfare |
Bein Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.17 01:13:00 -
[66]
Just ignore that guy. |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.17 02:59:00 -
[67]
Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 17/07/2007 03:01:07
Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 17/07/2007 02:59:26
Quote:
As for my experience I am sorry I don't memorize exact numbers, it's called a ballpark figure. Much better estimation then someone who said it had the longest range lol. Rest of the dreads can hit at 200km but guess what? No one cares because fights with capitals at that range happen once in a blue moon.
Yes sorry I don't know exact numbers either. I was giving a ball park figure as well, and yes I was more off then you. Now could you please show me a ranged dreadnaught setup that matches the phoenix's damage at a range of 130km? And once again, if you really want instantaous damage, you have a turret slot, noone stops you from using it.
Using the longest range ammo on a revelation, I can only seem to come up with a range of 160km. If your hitting at 200km its deep into fallof and your damage has been gimped even more. Of course you can fit mods that increase your range, but this gimps your tank. Since I have been corrected about the phoenix's range (my mistake) I ran some numbers and came up with a revelation that does almost half the DPS of a phoenix at 130km. Tanks are within 3% of each other. Clearly, You have the damage advantage at range, but its over shadowed by the turrets instant damage in massive blobs. All I can say to that is the phoenix isnt the only ship that suffers that problem. Imo missles shouldnt hit instantly other wise they would be broken. If they hit instantly, they need to not hit as hard at range the same way turrets do. The fact that you can out damage ships at far ranges is an advantage. Maybe another thread needs to be opened in the game development forum proposing a way to solve the missle flight time problem, because I agree with you, flight time in fleets sucks.
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Lord Loom
Loom Service
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Posted - 2007.07.17 09:10:00 -
[68]
did you actually check your faction fit suggestions or is all you know "they take a lot less CPU therefore they will fit"? (not to mention other dreads don't have to do this)
with "super-low CPU" faction mods you will get a setup that's significantly more expensive for about the same performance as the standard T2 fit your pals in other races' dreads can use. If you want to really "pimp" your setup with the faction and deadspace stuff that's more than "on par" with T2 mods, you need too much CPU again
seriously, give a reason why the Phoenix should be the only dread that has to go through this
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.17 12:00:00 -
[69]
Man this discussion is simply ridiculows. Anyoen with open eyes can see that Capital Shield Booster need some reduction in CPU usage. Reduce 50 cpu on its fitting and everyone will be happy, both Phoenix and shield tanked naglfars.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Bein Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.17 12:50:00 -
[70]
Don't forget the Nidhoggur.
(though in some cases I can see the huge CPU need of capital shield transporters as valid and necessary) |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.17 16:52:00 -
[71]
Quote:
did you actually check your faction fit suggestions or is all you know "they take a lot less CPU therefore they will fit"? (not to mention other dreads don't have to do this)
with "super-low CPU" faction mods you will get a setup that's significantly more expensive for about the same performance as the standard T2 fit your pals in other races' dreads can use. If you want to really "pimp" your setup with the faction and deadspace stuff that's more than "on par" with T2 mods, you need too much CPU again
seriously, give a reason why the Phoenix should be the only dread that has to go through this
I have given a reason. With every setup posted in this thread, the phoenix had comparaple stats. Everything was witin 3-5% each other except damage on the pulse revelation, and well a pulse revelation will always outdamage a phoenix. The ships could run their tanks as long, the effective hp was within 3% of each other, damage was very comparable. Noone has shown a setup yet that is just hands down superiour to a t2 fit phoenix. A faction fit pheonix will be much much better then a t2 fit dread of any variety, and yes more costly, but it will not be equal by any means to a t2 fit dread, it will be vastly superios. Thats just a silly thing to claim.
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R3dSh1ft
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.19 10:26:00 -
[72]
OMG the amount of ignorance in this thread, especially duffy!
Shocking!
Phoenix fails at being a good dreadnought to own and fly. End of story. Chimera fails at being a good carrier, if you can't pick up why that is, then you don't belong in a game with such open ended and complex gameplay.
I trained for Caldari capitals because at the time of release we were told things were going to be balanced - not specifically on this issue, but I don't think any of the older players expected CCP to leave the Caldari capitals this bad for so long - thus the choice to go for Gallente at a later stage.
Most of the Caldari pilots who have ammased enough skillpoints to fly dreadnoughts (such as Xeliya above) will have an element of their skillpoints in Gallente tech already (Hybrids / Drones) so the training time for Moros is somewhat reduced than that to other dreads.
Its a choice taken through necessity - I would prefer to fly my racial ship with maxed out support skills, but at the end of the day it's that or continue to fly a ship with the offensive potential of a leaf blower.
Also, the skillpoints required to get a capital armor repairer are nothing compared to capital shield booster, so things are pretty unbalanced there, as well.
If CCP decide to rebalance the capitals at some point I will come back to Caldari tech with glee - but right know there's a war don't you know, and we gotta do what we gotta do.
DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine |
Alyssee
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Posted - 2007.07.21 01:59:00 -
[73]
Free bump.
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Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.21 02:03:00 -
[74]
Still no dev response. I'm unsurprised.
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Jonas' Grey
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Posted - 2007.07.21 08:50:00 -
[75]
I dont think I've seen anyone troll like Fluffy before..
What capital ship do you fly again Fluffy?
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Lastdon
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Posted - 2007.07.21 12:13:00 -
[76]
I think some thing that armor tankers are oblivious to is that for cap regen we have to sacrifice either a resist/boost slot or shield boost/Amount of cap for cap regen.
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CCP Abathur
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Posted - 2007.07.21 16:10:00 -
[77]
I've replied here. 
"Tux did it!" |
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.21 16:25:00 -
[78]
Hey, cool.
Just don't forget about the Nidhoggur's shield tanking CPU problems, too. Its not just a Phoenix problem. |
Toffles
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.21 21:05:00 -
[79]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
I've replied here.
Awesome, thank you.
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Ignition SemperFi
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.21 21:15:00 -
[80]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
I've replied here.
FTW!
ARROW CAP SHIPS FOR SALE We Promise you wont be disappointed! |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.21 21:19:00 -
[81]
Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 21/07/2007 21:18:41
Quote:
I dont think I've seen anyone troll like Fluffy before..
What capital ship do you fly again Fluffy?
I wasnt trolling, just posting some simple thoughts. The cpu on the phoenix sucks, I agree but it can be worked around. Now the carriers are another story altogether and it will be interesting to see what 'balance' comes of this. I'm guessing ccp will change absolutly nothing because usually when they suggest a 'balance' gallente just gets a buff. 
Here is a faction phoenix for the record so everyone knows its possible:
Low slots:
2x shadow serpentis PDU, 3x caldari navy BCU
medium slots:
2x caldari navy invunl fields, 1 caldari navy em, 1 caldari navy thermal, 1 x republic fleet shield boost amp, 1x capital shield booster, 1x sensor booster II
highs: 3x citadal torp launchers, 1x siege launcher.
Seems pretty solid to me, you can swap out the damage mods for more PDUs if you want more tank etc, but being able to fit her out with t2 gear without a rail gun or a fitting mod would be cool.
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Lord Loom
Loom Service
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Posted - 2007.07.21 21:58:00 -
[82]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
I wasnt trolling, just posting some simple thoughts. The cpu on the phoenix sucks, I agree but it can be worked around. Now the carriers are another story altogether and it will be interesting to see what 'balance' comes of this. I'm guessing ccp will change absolutly nothing because usually when they suggest a 'balance' gallente just gets a buff.
Here is a faction phoenix for the record so everyone knows its possible:
Low slots:
2x shadow serpentis PDU, 3x caldari navy BCU
medium slots:
2x caldari navy invunl fields, 1 caldari navy em, 1 caldari navy thermal, 1 x republic fleet shield boost amp, 1x capital shield booster, 1x sensor booster II
highs: 3x citadal torp launchers, 1x siege launcher.
Seems pretty solid to me, you can swap out the damage mods for more PDUs if you want more tank etc, but being able to fit her out with t2 gear without a rail gun or a fitting mod would be cool.
this is kinda pointless now but I'd like to point out that this is "only" a light faction fit, slightly better than T2 but using the lowest-CPU faction mods (including a shield boost amp that's worse than the T2 one), while you can fit full deadspace/officer setups on armor tankers if you have the cash to waste, and those will offer far better performance than this setup above - I think this was the point our resident MC poster was trying to make
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.21 23:12:00 -
[83]
Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 21/07/2007 23:12:27
Quote:
this is kinda pointless now but I'd like to point out that this is "only" a light faction fit, slightly better than T2 but using the lowest-CPU faction mods (including a shield boost amp that's worse than the T2 one), while you can fit full deadspace/officer setups on armor tankers if you have the cash to waste, and those will offer far better performance than this setup above - I think this was the point our resident MC poster was trying to make
Well of course an officer tank out performs a faction tank! Believe it or not, an officer phoenix actually out tanks an officer revelation.
Lows: Co-Processer II, 4x Cormack's Modified PDU
medium: 4x Estemal's Modified Invuln Field, 1x Capital Booster, 1x Estemals Shield Boost Amp, 1x Sensor Booster.
high: 3x citadal launchers, 1x siege mod.
Sure it takes a co-processer, But it can perma rep outside of siege mode. For comparison, a revelation fit with a full Shaqil's armor resistence tank will tank 15% less dps then the phoenix. Its really non-issue that a co-proc goes on the phoenix when you fit it with officer.
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.07.22 01:29:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 22/07/2007 01:30:53
I think the "Faction" tank that people refer to is one where better-than-T2 quality modules can be used. Caldari Navy modules (with the exception of the invuln field) are generally equivalent to T2, only with easier CPU fitting cost. So you're basically getting a T2 tank with fancy module names (and a bit more fitting freedom for any leftover slots).
BTW, the Shadow serpentis/true sansha/dark blood PDS's are exactly the same as the T2 PDS, only they give more power grid (7.5% over 5% for the T2)--I think the CPU is even equivalent...so spending the extra 30-40M for them is pointless as the Chimera/Phoenix (and I think Nid/Nagl) have no grid issues, just CPU.
You could not, for example, replicate that setup substituting Gist-X or Pith-X hardeners, which are substancially better than T2 but require more CPU as a tradeoff. That is what most people refer to when they mention faction fitting/tank--one that is significantly tougher due to much higher resists than T2. One that you can do with the equivalent faction armor hardeners (corpus, etc) but not with the shield tanking ships.
The announcement of balancing love fills me with hope. Don't let the caldari down (again) CCP!
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Adm Vladimir Tinakin
CFO
Hadean Drive Yards |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.22 04:26:00 -
[85]
Yes, those are some very good points valadimir. On the setup I posted there is enough spare cpu for a t2 boost amp, or better. Also with a deadspace tank, if you use a cpu mod you still get a great tank, i'm sure it is quiet comparable to the armor tank similar to it, but the officer tank is just so sexi  I'd love to see a dread with a tank like that.
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