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Soeniss Delazur	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:45:00 - [1] Hello... I¦m currently flying a Myrm on lvl 3 missions. I¦ve got around 5,5 Mil SPs, armor tanking. I¦m using drones (~1,5 Mil SP) more than weapons although I¦ve still got decent gunnery skills (< 1 Mil SP tho). The thing is, I¦m seriously considering moving to lvl 4 missions in a few weeks and I¦m pretty decided to fly a Hype I¦ve tried to analyse the best way to take the move without jeopardizing too much my efficiency on missions, the thing is these ships are kind of different. My ISK is pretty limited to afford an insured Hype with all fittings (mostly tech I) so I was considering a few options: 1- Stay in my Myrm on level 3 missions, focus on the gunnery skills until I get the ISK to buy the ship. Pros: I¦m sure to have my skills ready by the time I can afford the ship. Cons: may take a while given what I make out of lvl 3 missions... 2- Buy straight a Domi and run level 4 missions. Pros: ISK should come faster. Cons: I need to carry on training up my drone skills. 3- Buy a Mega which is cheaper. Pros: the skills I need to train are basically the same. Cons: I¦m not convinced I can run lvl 4 missions easily with this ship (tanking issues). I¦m currently training up my tanking skills which is always good for any ship, but I need to take a decision if I should carry on maxing out my drones or not... I¦m sure some of you have been in this situation, so any thoughts are welcome!
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.15 14:03:00 - [2] Get a Domi. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Soeniss Delazur	Posted - 2007.07.15 17:37:00 - [3] Could you please explain why you¦d recommend this option?
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.15 18:20:00 - [4] workingg on a reply - its an essay on why you should not fly the hype and probably stick to the domi.
Soeniss Delazur	Posted - 2007.07.15 18:27:00 - [5] Edited by: Soeniss Delazur on 15/07/2007 18:28:17 I don't see why I " shouldn't " fly the Hype. I want to, that¦s it. And I think I¦m not alone on this, just a matter of taste. Also, I¦m not flying a Domi yet and I¦ve not settled my skills so the choice is still open.
Teark Valkro	Posted - 2007.07.15 19:42:00 - [6] Domi does missions faster than Hyperion, in general. Can run dual rep tank, so tanking will only be a problem on a very few missions, and hyperion would likely be in as much trouble.
Soeniss Delazur Gallente Spack Lords	Posted - 2007.07.15 19:49:00 - [7] Edited by: Soeniss Delazur on 15/07/2007 19:49:44 Originally by: Teark Valkro Domi does missions faster than Hyperion, in general. Can run dual rep tank, so tanking will only be a problem on a very few missions, and hyperion would likely be in as much trouble. Ok with your first statement, but why do you see a problem with the dual rep config on the Hype? I may sound like a fool - I¦m not too experienced - but I don't see why I wouldn't be able to fit a Hyperion with cap rechargers and a couple of rigs to support a dual rep setup?
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:32:00 - [8] i woudlnt say its the tank that is lacking but the tracking on the guns.
Soeniss Delazur Gallente Spack Lords	Posted - 2007.07.15 22:35:00 - [9] Yeah, that¦s why the Hype is not as good as the Mega for close range, but in PvE tanking abilities are more important... And you can still fit tracking computers. But again, this is not the point of this post to say what ship is best, I just wanted to ask an opinion about the road to take...
Sally Sathir	Posted - 2007.07.16 00:47:00 - [10] Sounds like you could probably hop into a Domi right now and do OK in 4s. If you have Hull Upgrades 5 and Mechanic 5, there's nothing stopping you from tanking 4s while afk in a Domi. People use Megas and Hypes very efficiently for missioning as well, but any gunboat is going to take a LOT more SP to be effective. I wouldn't even consider it till your vital gunnery support and cap skills are 5'd. Besides the low amount of SP needed, another thing the Domi has going for it is its tank. You can fit a beast of a tank on a Domi and run it forever, without sacrificing too much DPS. With a Hype, you're never going to come up with enough cap to run those guns and dual LARs for extended periods of time. Cap issues are why most mission running Hypes fit only 1, x-type very much preferred, LAR; as you're certainly not going to want 3 NOS for PvE.
Soeniss Delazur Gallente Spack Lords	Posted - 2007.07.16 05:39:00 - [11] Thanks Sally
Soeniss Delazur Gallente Spack Lords	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Sally Sathir Sounds like you could probably hop into a Domi right now and do OK in 4s. If you have Hull Upgrades 5 and Mechanic 5, there's nothing stopping you from tanking 4s while afk in a Domi. People use Megas and Hypes very efficiently for missioning as well, but any gunboat is going to take a LOT more SP to be effective. I wouldn't even consider it till your vital gunnery support and cap skills are 5'd. Besides the low amount of SP needed, another thing the Domi has going for it is its tank. You can fit a beast of a tank on a Domi and run it forever, without sacrificing too much DPS. With a Hype, you're never going to come up with enough cap to run those guns and dual LARs for extended periods of time. Cap issues are why most mission running Hypes fit only 1, x-type very much preferred, LAR; as you're certainly not going to want 3 NOS for PvE. Then I should probably get tech II mediums as soon as possible, and probably max out my cap skills. One thing though, many Domi pilots fit blasters, so why would the cap be a problem for one ship to another upon the same setup?
Lynal Gallente Peregrin Avionics	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Soeniss Delazur Edited by: Soeniss Delazur on 15/07/2007 19:20:44 I don't see why I " shouldn't " fly the Hype. I want to, that¦s it. And I think I¦m not alone on this, just a matter of taste. I¦m not flying a Domi yet and I¦ve not settled my skills so the choice is still open. I was just considering the Domi to get quicker ISK to purchase the Hype. I have full respect for the Domi being considered as a very good ship for missions, but I¦m only considering it to accumulate quick ISK to purchase a Hype, if you know what I mean. Thanks for the replies so far. biggest reason you should fly the domi... you've got more relevant skills trained for it after flying a myrm than you do for flying a hype. im going to go on a limb and make a few assumptions here... you've got mechanic, repair systems, energy management, energy sys ops and hull upgrades all up to at least 4. fine... you need those for both a hype and domi. im also going to assume you've got more drone skills than gunnery skills... that right there makes you more effective flying a drone boat. now... to fly a domi in lvl 4's the best in missions you can, all you need are the above skills to lvl 5 and tech 2 drones. so really the only work you need to put in training wise to become as good as you can be with a domi is training tech 2 drones... whereas in order to get good with guns, you need to invest around 3-5 million more skill points in gunnery than you would in drones. it just will take you less time to see good results flying a domi after a myrm than it would to see flying a hype after a myrm... now if you had been going from a brutix to a domi, id be telling you to get a hype (or better yet a mega) instead. bottom line... you should stick with and specialize in what you're doing first, then branch out to other specialities... i.e. you're specialized in drones, stick with it, max it out, then specialize in guns. A fair fight is one you didn't plan hard enough for.
Lynal Gallente Peregrin Avionics	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Soeniss Delazur Then I should probably get tech II mediums as soon as possible, and probably max out my cap skills. One thing though, many Domi pilots fit blasters, so why would the cap be a problem on the Hype if it¦s not on the Domi? most domi pilots actually don't fit blasters... the pg on a domi is very restrictive... the people who do fit blasters on domi's are basically foregoing the absolutly massive and beastly tanks that are possible in order to max out their damage... i.e. for gate camps and the such. blasters are rarely found in missions, where range is king... and blaster equipped domi's can't support effective tanks (they're all about the gank), which also hurts your ability to run missions. A fair fight is one you didn't plan hard enough for.
isca Gallente Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:23:00 - [15] as everyone else has said, get a domi... the tank you can fit on those beasties is awesome
Pralay Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.16 23:05:00 - [16] Get both. Earn isk with Mission Domi to support your Hype PVP habits. Pralay
Soeniss Delazur Gallente Spack Lords	Posted - 2007.07.17 05:34:00 - [17] Edited by: Soeniss Delazur on 17/07/2007 05:35:46 Originally by: Pralay Get both. Earn isk with Mission Domi to support your Hype PVP habits. That¦s exactly what I intend to do I¦ll try out the Domi on lvl3 missions first to get used to the ship; and push my damage armor compensation skills to IV, hull upgrades V, mechanic V to get tech II, and ev. repair systems V in the meantime. It will take a couple of weeks but my tanking skills will be ready and I¦m away anyway. Once I¦ve done that I just need tech II drones (scout V and heavies V), and maybe energy emission systems to IV (for the NOS). I¦ll probably be in lvl4 missions somewhere there. Then with the ISK coming (some may go to the Domi though) I can focus on the gunnery skills: large turrets V, large specialization IV, which should take around a month. So yeah, better not be in a hurry, but I think it¦s doable. Some corp mates have reported a pretty large gap in the difficulty between lvl3 and lvl4 missions so I want to be prepared. Thanks for the replies guys.
Artemis Dragmire	Posted - 2007.07.17 10:20:00 - [18] Domi has a massive tank with proper skills. But it looks like a turd, and that matters to me (and apparently to you as well :)) I fly a mega myself and can do MOST lvl4's if I'm careful. But I've owned my mega for about 4 months now and have only recently begun to do lvl4's, because you need a lot more expensive fittings to properly tank and do the DPS you need to solo lvl4's. I'd say if you want to jump right into lvl4's as fast as you can, get a domi and go for it, if you can stand flying an ugly ship like that :). Otherwise, grab yourself a megathron and some friends, and you can still make more isk/hour doing lvl4's non-solo than you would doing lvl3's solo. (depends on the mission of course) As for the hyperion, I love the ship design, but it's spendy and doesn't seem to have as many advantages as the other tier 3 battleships out there... but I still plan on getting one eventually, for the same reason I want a vigilant... they're sexy ships. :) Ah, Just noticed how many SP you mentioned you have, I'm about the same spot you are and I do not have much issues with lvl4 missions unless I screw up the spawns (might have to warp out once or twice if I get careless though). You should be able to do lvl4's just fine in a Mega or Hyperion, but you will need a lot of gunnery skills, and will want to train up things like hull upgrades and mechanic so you can use the t2 reppers/hardeners if you haven't already.
Ishbuanium	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Artemis Dragmire But it looks like a turd, and that matters to me (and apparently to you as well :)) It's an upside down shoe.....oh hell, its a turd. Anyway, to answer the OP's question about why get a domi, your drone skills are good. This means that, by default, a Domi will be better for you than a Hyp, which requires more gunnery skills. Plus, while a Blaster Hyp is really fun to take on missions sometimes (beginning of lvl 4 shipyard theft is the last time I did it), the Domi gets missions done faster. Because the nature of many level 4 missions is that they are in deadspace, you cant mwd to targets, making it harder to use a blaster hyp. A rail Hyp is just slower than a domi by default, especially with your (lack of) SP in Gunnery (this is from experience, since i have low sp in gunnery too). My reasoning, which has been mentioned before, is to buy a domi now and then make enough money to buy and fit a hyperion. And the way I see it, I THINK that the setup of a myrm is more like flying a domi, meaning an easier transition.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:52:00 - [20] To the OP: I got caught out on this; you need racial drone spec skills to IV to use t2 heavies, and to II to use the mediums. That't what you get for not checking - I thought that heavy drones V and drone spec I would be enough. Fortunately, I hadn't bought any ogre IIs that I couldn't use. The training for all four drone spec skills to IV is about 3 weeks with good learning skills and +3 implants. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Perseus D'Solos	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:25:00 - [21] Edited by: Perseus D''Solos on 17/07/2007 16:25:10 To op: I use the Dominix as my main mission ship. With faction gear and rigs, there is no level four mission I can't handle solo. I use T2 heavy drones on top of that. If you can do an all t2 fitting on a domi, except perhaps heavy drones (you still need ATLEAST interfacing lvl 4), as well as a cap rig and two aux nano pumps, you'll be able to do all, except a very small number, lvl 4 missions solo. However, some mission are very doable in a sniperthron or a hypersniper. When I go this route, I equip 425 rails, as many damage mods as I can fit, tracking computers, a damage control, a sensor booster, and, in the case of the hyper, a shield extender, as an extra buffer. I can do all drone missions, except attack of the drones, in it, as well as most serpentis missions, some amarr missions, and a few others. In the cases where I can go the sniper route, the time needed to do the missions is greatly reduced, but if I can't go the sniper route, the domi is faster. My advice: start out with making your domi a stable mission platform, with all related skills and items. Then, when you feel comfortable, train gunnery, followed by t2 heavies. If you have any questions, feel free to convo me ingame.
Soeniss Delazur Gallente Spack Lords	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:33:00 - [22] Edited by: Soeniss Delazur on 17/07/2007 16:33:42 Ok, let¦s go for a Domi then. And it¦s cheaper so I can fit it straight away, which is even better. It really sounds reasonable, because the Hype is still very pricey and I want to ensure all my ships anyway. Just realized the hype also needs full tanking abilities, medium II drones and cap skills boosted to the max, which I¦m gonna get anyway if I choose the Domi. I¦ll probably just leave the sentries behind, I think they're just a nice-to-have. I¦m on +4 implants and my rank 1 training skills are maxed out (my rank 3s being at lvl4). So it¦s not a problem getting Drones II with all racial skills, aswell as tech II tanking. Maybe in a month and a half? Impressive though to see some pilots as experienced as I am (in terms of skill training) can run lvl4 missions without too much troubles. I still get some on lvl3s, although there is no mission I can't complete (well, the bonus room in AE is just beyond my capacities ) PS I¦m 13 days from Drones interfacing V
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.17 19:05:00 - [23] I think you could probably run Level 4s right now in any of the Gallente Battleships, assuming you have Gallente BS 4. You have about a million more total SP than I do. You have at least 1.4 million more SP in Drones than I do. And we have comparable gunnery skills. If you can use tech II hardeners, a tech II LAR, and have good cap skills (at least Level 4), you should be in fine shape. I find that there are quite a few Level 4s I can already solo in a timely manner in my Megathron. The ones I cannot solo I run with a friend in a Drake or some other BC. Thanks to my excellent social skills, we both make more money running Level 4s than we would make running level 3s. If we add a third ship, we can speed up the process to where we each make the same amount of ISK running Level 4s together as would running Level 3s, and more quickly. I'd watch out for WC and the bonus room to AE, but if you know the triggers I think you can handle almost every mission with ease. Personally, I don't go for dual armor repair setups, not yet anyway. It cuts down on your gank too much. I prefer this tank: Mid slots: 1 or 2 Cap Recharger IIs Low slots: 1x EANM II 2x Rat Specific Hardener IIs 1x DCU II 1x LAR II Rigs: 3x CCC rigs This setup isn't the strongest possible tank, but it is flexible enough to allow me to add another hardener or an extra damage mod or whatever else I need. It requires good armor compensation skills. It works on anything with at least 5 low slots. Good luck...
Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.17 20:34:00 - [24] Actually the mega owns at mission running its just that know one knows how to set it up decently. Or its not really even that its the fact that everybody just likes certian ships. Domi is a good choice for your first bs, espically since you do have somewhat decent drones skills. Hype, I never really like it, never really used it tbh, thought it looked to much like a donut with something stuck through it. But here ya go my mega setup, will dual rep and perma that dual rep with out nos of cap booster. Hammy II's or hobgoblin II's arnt that hard to train for, and youll need them from the small guys. Blasters or rails which ever you prefer both work. Highs: 7x Ion II's or this is what I use. 1x Wildcard, nos whatever you want to put there cloak ftw. Mids: 4x Cap Recharger II's Lows: 2x large armor rep II Armor Kin Hardner II Armor Thermic Hardner II Armor Exp Hardner II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Beta Reactor: Capacitor Power Relay Rigs: 3x CCC 70 or so resistances accross the board, simply warp into the mission, stager the reps and go do what ever you want, you wont run out of cap even with somewhat decent skills. Also people will say you need to tank specific rats etc... this will go through lvl 4 angel extravaganza and lvl 4 Worlds Collide, although it does get a little pesky at times it will tank. As for the drone bay im using 5x Hammerhead II's and 5x Hobgoblin II's, O and for the record rails might be a better idea sometimes those pesky rats sit 30 km from you, so you need something that can hit there or you just sit and wait for the drones to slowly kill the angel bs's. Good Luck contact me ingame if you have any questions.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.17 20:47:00 - [25] I really prefer rails for mission running. Although with 7x 425mm you will have a hard time fitting dual reps. Actually, you have a hard time fitting a single LAR II unless you have a PDS OR AWU 4 + 3% powergird implant.
Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.17 21:04:00 - [26] Yea with my setup you have about 2500 pg left over with just awu 2. Which yea you might have a little trouble fitting those rails, but like I said never tried it, always used blasters.
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.17 21:43:00 - [27] Don't fly a Hype. Your gunnery skills are terrible. When you have all gunnery support @ 4 and large hyrbid @ 4 and Gal BS @ 4 you can just barely start to use a Hype effectively. The next step then gunnery support @ 5. Then get Large Railgun Spec @ 4. Before that you won't be too effective with a Hype. Dual Rep, 4 damage specific hardeners and mids full of Cap Recharger II will give you sufficient decent tanking ability. Basically don't fly it until you dump another 3 or 4 million sp into gunnery. Before that you won't be using the ship very effectively.
cal nereus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.07.17 22:35:00 - [28] Edited by: cal nereus on 17/07/2007 22:35:21 The Dominix is ugly. The Hyperion and Megathron are relatively similar. If you don't mind ugly, pilot the Dominix for missions. It'll be easier too since you're already trained up for a Myrmidon, which is similar in performance. If you don't mind expensive ships, pilot the Hyperion. If you want to avoid ugly, but compromise on price, pilot the Megathron. Sniping in railguns is popular with said ship, but it will take some more gunnery skills to pilot effectively.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.17 23:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Don't fly a Hype. Your gunnery skills are terrible. When you have all gunnery support @ 4 and large hyrbid @ 4 and Gal BS @ 4 you can just barely start to use a Hype effectively. The next step then gunnery support @ 5. Then get Large Railgun Spec @ 4. Before that you won't be too effective with a Hype. Dual Rep, 4 damage specific hardeners and mids full of Cap Recharger II will give you sufficient decent tanking ability. Basically don't fly it until you dump another 3 or 4 million sp into gunnery. Before that you won't be using the ship very effectively. By this thinking you should still be flying a Tristan in Level 1 missions until you have 10 million SP. Will you be a great battleship pilot without 20 million specialized SP? No. Will you be able to complete level 4s in a timely manner with what you have now? Yes. Fly whatever you can afford to fly.
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.18 03:35:00 - [30] I should clarify my post as I think people are taking it the wrong way. Get all gunnery skills to 4 and gal bs to 4. Then you will be able to use a Hype. Before that it won't work very well. I should know I jumped into a Geddon as quickly as I could for pvp and it worked but as I dump more and more into gunnery it gets better and better. After you're in it get the gunnery support to 5 and move onto t2 rails.

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