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Drak Vemso	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:27:00 - [1] My biggest problem so far in eve is the PvP system. I spent several days getting my not-so-great mining frigate (by 99% of EVE players level of wealth) to a desirable status as well as investing over 1mil isk in implants (Again, not impressive to many, but it was very tough for me to get this). I got my confidence up and decided to try a .4 security zone...bad idea. Shortly after entering an asteroid field, I lost my ship and got pod killed. Sure, I can recover these losses pretty easily in 1-2 days, but one thing bothers me. When you get into the later portions of the game, do the losses "hurt" as bad? Basically, when you get to the point when (in my case) you get like an exhumer or high-end mining barge, if you lose it, does it hurt your wallet as bad? I know that the mining barges cost a LOT more than a frigate, but does the amount of isk you bring in at that point "soften" the loss? Reason I ask, I don't want to spend like a week or two on a ship and then watch it blow up and be unable to replace it for another week or so...that just kind of takes the fun out of it for me. The most appealing thing to me about this game is the science and industry systems...I always loved crafting and stuff in MMOs. I have never been a fan of PvP in any MMORPG that I have played, but this game seems like the whole of later game is PvP .
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:30:00 - [2] The whole of this game is PvP in one form or another, low sec is a dangerous place to mine in a frig as you'll probably be killed stick to high sec if you're new, by the time you can fly and afford an exhumer you should be in a player corp with decent ore access to make it worthwhile. --------- Liberty Rogues Website
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:30:00 - [3] Paragraphs are your friend. Signature starts here: Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Julio Rivas	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:32:00 - [4] at least you got to play
Lance Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:33:00 - [5] Personally, any loss is bad. I hate losing ships. On a side note... Some people have high-grade snake sets, or talisman, or something else... those I hear cost upwards of a bill to replace. Faction ships, like the vinidi or the Bhaal cost a bill or so I hear, so losing that + pod... err sets you back easily 2 bill, plus a few more bill in fittings. Or.. a momship. 10+ bill, plus more in fittings. But you said like mining barges - the Hulk(best miner) is about 150 some mill nowadays, and those can get slightly expensive with fittings...
Larg Kellein Caldari GTE Corp	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:34:00 - [6] Once you learn the golden rule, it doesn't hurt as much, but it should always sting a little. Oh, and the golden rule? Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Originally by: Roy Batty68 My software has wronged me!!! And it's immediately "sorry". Well, ok then. I suppose I'm not so upset at my software if it appologizes.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:34:00 - [7] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 15/07/2007 21:35:05 Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Losses still hurt later in the game but you usually have a separate way to easily make the money back. Oh, and the whole game isn't PvP. At least not combat PvP. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:37:00 - [8] You will always want to be as effective as possible when you undock which, for the great majority of eve, means a loss will hurt. How much it hurts varies depending on what role you were playing in your gang, whether you got podded, and whether that clone had implants. The cardinal rule in eve is to never fly want you cannot afford to lose. Few people follow it (and TBH few people truly can). If you're smart, though, your losses will hurt little enough that a day or two of whatever flavor of grind makes you isk will get you back to the same level. It's good that losses hurt in EVE. If they didn't, I wouldn't care about victory or defeat and wouldn't play. As for getting podkilled in low sec - it should never happen. Before you die, pick a celestial object that appeals to you and spam your warp button. You should only get podded in a bubble or when the other guy gets very lucky. Eventually you'll be able to use jump clones which allows you to switch to a no-implant/cheap implant clone for pvp then back to your expensive clone for training. _____ Heat Warfare
Drak Vemso	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:41:00 - [9] Yea, I should have been able to get away . I was frantically watching to see if anyone was coming in. Immediately after seeing someone come into my area, I tried to warp. I am assuming he/she jammed my warp and because I just could warp. After my ship blew up, I tried warping my pod...didn't work. 3-4 shots I was gone.
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh, and the whole game isn't PvP. At least not combat PvP. I beg to differ, with the exception of running missions everything in EVE is PvP (Player vs Player) be that mining or building ships or trading everything is PvP in EVE :) --------- Liberty Rogues Website
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Cypherous Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh, and the whole game isn't PvP. At least not combat PvP. I beg to differ, with the exception of running missions everything in EVE is PvP (Player vs Player) be that mining or building ships or trading everything is PvP in EVE :) Even mission running is pvp. Mission runners devalue your isk by generating new isk. You can counter them by probing them out in low sec, loftying them in low sec, or moving your market check alts to their mission hubs _____ Heat Warfare
Drak Vemso	Posted - 2007.07.15 22:01:00 - [12] Eh, it kinda sounds like this game is not for me. I love science fiction and this one seems to have the highest rating of science fiction MMOs. Coming from WoW, I now see why people make fun of WoW - it's soooo easy. If I get killed on WoW, I lose like 5 mins worth of farming. If I get ganked, I just get frustrated. On eve, if I get killed in a PvE environment, I may lose days of work. If I get killed in a PvP environment, I lose several days of work on my ship and all of my implants...maybe even skill points if I forgot to upgrade my clone . PvP is my least favorite aspect of MMOs. The whole "carebear" phrase really doesn't bother me. I like making money and building things...this MMO seemed to deliver that want...too bad I have to start from square one if I mess up. I played WoW for two years and just recently got bored of it. I played eve for a week and I am super frustrated...guess that's a sign I should quit. Oh well, thanks for the replies all and good luck.
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.15 22:12:00 - [13] As best as I can tell, at least half of EVE never leaves high sec, and combat PVP is very intimidating at first. If you don't enjoy the fact that your actions have consequences in this game, it's probably not for you, but don't let your early pvp experience scare you off. I'd never experienced the agony of defeat nor the ecstasy of victory available in EVE in any other game and TBH both scared me a little bit. Now I try new games every so often, and they feel like minesweeper or solitaire by comparison. I enjoy that sick feeling I get when I realize I've fallen for a trap and will be out a hundred million isk far more than the hollow experiences offered by other games. All games have their place, of course, and if you want to play an hour a week then it will be hard for you to enjoy all that EVE can offer. _____ Heat Warfare
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.07.15 22:16:00 - [14] Before you decide it's not for you, find an industrial corp who will take you in. Things will be much easier from that position than solo and if you do suffer losses your corp may even chip in to help you rebuild. So far you have been unlucky. You could do with teaming up with people who have experience of what you're trying to do and know the ins and outs. ----- Currently playing: Hello Kitty Online Character: Evil Kitty of DEATH
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 00:45:00 - [15] keep playing and it wont be a problem keep a positive attitude and eve will be with you for years ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Drak Vemso	Posted - 2007.07.16 02:48:00 - [16] Okay, I guess I will give it a chance . I managed to get my ship back to where it was in just a few hours. It seems that my biggest investment was in my augmentations cuz the net worth of my ship was ~500,000. I guess that's not too bad of a loss. Hopefully I can get my cruiser soon...that should make mining easier, but I WILL make sure not to bring my cruiser into low security zones!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 02:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Drak Vemso Okay, I guess I will give it a chance . I managed to get my ship back to where it was in just a few hours. It seems that my biggest investment was in my augmentations cuz the net worth of my ship was ~500,000. I guess that's not too bad of a loss. Hopefully I can get my cruiser soon...that should make mining easier, but I WILL make sure not to bring my cruiser into low security zones! in time you will be bringing and losing battleships (hopefully not so often) and you will have fun ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.16 03:23:00 - [18] it's hard but soon your be poping rats with 3 mil bounties :) and yes this is the polar oppisite of wow and thus why so many people respect but can't play eve. wait untill rev 3 and you'll have so much PvE it won't even be funny :) ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.16 03:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Cypherous Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh, and the whole game isn't PvP. At least not combat PvP. I beg to differ, with the exception of running missions everything in EVE is PvP (Player vs Player) be that mining or building ships or trading everything is PvP in EVE :) Did you not see the bit where I said 'at least not combat PvP'? - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Drak Vemso	Posted - 2007.07.16 03:29:00 - [20] Originally by: MotherMoon it's hard but soon your be poping rats with 3 mil bounties :) and yes this is the polar oppisite of wow and thus why so many people respect but can't play eve. wait untill rev 3 and you'll have so much PvE it won't even be funny :) Hmm...what kinda additions will there be in rev 3?
Moridin920 Gallente Dust Echoes FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 06:34:00 - [21] Well, someone said the whole point of the game is PvP... that's not necessarily true... The loss all depends on what you are flying. It's softened to the point where if I lose a frigate it doesn't mean anything. I don't even insure them because I don't want to waste the extra five seconds it takes to do it, even if I know I'm about to try to kill a cruiser in it just to see how far I can get. If you lose a 500 million ISK battleship (faction fitted and such), the loss is terrible. Sure, you'll be making a ton of ISK at that point probably anyway, but it's still pretty bad. As a rule, don't fly anything you can't afford to lose in low sec. I had someone screaming at me they had all their ISK in one ship I killed and they couldn't even afford a frigate at that point. Aside from the fact I knew they were lying because even the basic 40% insurance that comes with all ships would have given him six million, it's just a bad practice to invest yourself so much into a ship and then take it into low sec. Hell, I wouldn't even use it in high sec, there's things that will jack you up there too if you're not paying attention. Eggs all in one basket = bad. Don't worry though, if PvP isn't your thing, it's definitely not a game killer. A lot of alliances in 0.0 need manufacturing, mining, crafting, stuff like that and it's not too hard to just stick to that. You'll be involved in PvP occasionally because you'll get attacked every now and again, I can't promise you won't see any PvP at all, but you can reduce it a lot if you don't go looking for fights and have some protection with you in low sec (corporation or alliance). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience our piracy may have caused you, but, we are pirates and, sadly, this is our way."
Kharadran Sullath Caldari IntoXication Inc	Posted - 2007.07.16 06:43:00 - [22] OP, you need not fire your guns at another player even if you were to play this game for 5 years. You CAN solely mine, build and research things, although sometimes there is risk involved. Most things are related to PvP in one way or another, but you don't ever have to actively partake in PvP combat. ------ --Don't get saucy with me Bernaise!--
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.16 06:54:00 - [23] Originally by: Kharadran Sullath OP, you need not fire your guns at another player even if you were to play this game for 5 years. You CAN solely mine, build and research things, although sometimes there is risk involved. Most things are related to PvP in one way or another, but you don't ever have to actively partake in PvP combat. Yea, you don't have to actively partake in it. But, sometimes it can find you.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Drak Vemso Hmm...what kinda additions will there be in rev 3? The release prior to Revelations was called Cold War and on the release date the Amarr emperor was assassinated. War has been brewing for a long time but now you can smell it. ----- Currently playing: Hello Kitty Online Character: Evil Kitty of DEATH
Drak Vemso	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:28:00 - [25] How does trading work? Is it simply going to the lowest-selling station and buying as much as you can of the item of interest and then finding the highest buyer, or is there more to it than that?
Fenren	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:45:00 - [26] Edited by: Fenren on 16/07/2007 13:48:17 Originally by: Drak Vemso How does trading work? Is it simply going to the lowest-selling station and buying as much as you can of the item of interest and then finding the highest buyer, or is there more to it than that? edit: buggy forum... my big post dissapeared. now you get this instead: you can do it like that. there is a lot more to it than that. you can make money in about a million different ways from the maket. it all komes down to how good you are at suply the need of the players and manipulate people and their prices on goods Originally by: GM Nova Hello everyone, senior GM Nova here. [...]A month ago we removed 380 billion ISK from the economy. This is not a typo, 380 BILLION ISK[...] We banned well over 100 accounts.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Drak Vemso My biggest problem so far in eve is the PvP system. I spent several days getting my not-so-great mining frigate (by 99% of EVE players level of wealth) to a desirable status as well as investing over 1mil isk in implants (Again, not impressive to many, but it was very tough for me to get this). I got my confidence up and decided to try a .4 security zone...bad idea. Shortly after entering an asteroid field, I lost my ship and got pod killed. Sure, I can recover these losses pretty easily in 1-2 days, but one thing bothers me. When you get into the later portions of the game, do the losses "hurt" as bad? Basically, when you get to the point when (in my case) you get like an exhumer or high-end mining barge, if you lose it, does it hurt your wallet as bad? I know that the mining barges cost a LOT more than a frigate, but does the amount of isk you bring in at that point "soften" the loss? Reason I ask, I don't want to spend like a week or two on a ship and then watch it blow up and be unable to replace it for another week or so...that just kind of takes the fun out of it for me. The most appealing thing to me about this game is the science and industry systems...I always loved crafting and stuff in MMOs. I have never been a fan of PvP in any MMORPG that I have played, but this game seems like the whole of later game is PvP . You can lose a month's worth of effort in a minute. learn your lessons now while they're cheap. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Drak Vemso Okay, I guess I will give it a chance . I managed to get my ship back to where it was in just a few hours. It seems that my biggest investment was in my augmentations cuz the net worth of my ship was ~500,000. I guess that's not too bad of a loss. Hopefully I can get my cruiser soon...that should make mining easier, but I WILL make sure not to bring my cruiser into low security zones! That's the spirit! As soon as you can spare a little training time, get a couple of levels of Infomorph Psycholgy. There are a couple of corps that will let you join purely so that you can get jump-clones. With jump clones, you can have a clone with none (or very cheap) implants that you can jump into on friday evening - go PvPing over the weekend in cheap frigates, not care if you get podded, maybe lose a few hundred thou or a million ISK, maybe make some back - and then on Sunday, go back to your implant-fitted clone and carebear it up during the week, building up the ISK for next weekend's fun. BTW you can also make a nice little profit running small, in-demand items into lo-sec in a fast, Warp-Core Stabiliser fitted frigate (I used to use the Kestrel: 2 low slots and 305m^3 cargo - perfect!). If at all possible find one or two persons in a similar situation as yourself, and co-ordinate your weekend fun. 3 "noobs" in frigates can give larger ships caught on their own a very hard time if you fit to complement each other (eg: a Kestrel to deal damage, a Rifter to tackle (secondary damage) and a Maulus to sensor damp (secondary damage) will give any cruiser and a lot of battlecruiser pilots a very difficult time of it). CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:15:00 - [29] Losses in EVE hurt. That is one of the things that make the game worth playing. That being said, as you said, replacing i mining frigate is easy. Mining Jaspet in .4 will net you somewhere in the area of 120 ISK per m3 Now, a Navitas (or other race miningfrig) will easily mine you 300m3 per minute. (Upwards to 600m3/min if well set up actually) That means 36,000.00 ISK per minute, or enough to buy and fit a new frigate, plus new implants in one hours work. To accomplish this of course, you will have to adapt and overcome the inherent risk of lowsec. Vigilance, Attentiveness and some common sense. Watch local, if anyone enters your belt, gtfo immediately (regardless of his secstatus) and learn to use your ship-scanner. The same goes for bigger ships. Yes, you lose more ISK, but then again, you also make more ISK. --- We are Recruiting!
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:22:00 - [30] "When you get into the later portions of the game, do the losses "hurt" as bad?" Yes, and no. Eve has many more levels of "high level" content. It's quite possible to be at the high end but not be flying around multiple billions in ships at any given moment. The advantage you have is : you're a carebear (as am I). A careful carebear can get inside of a corp/alliance and live the 0.0 life and make TONS of money. For example, a dedicated ratter who knows what they are doing can easily make 300-400 million a week or better. That requires focus and time - something your average PvPer can't/won't commit. When you get to this stage (4-5 months?) you are at an extreme advantage. #1, you have tons and tons of extra cash, so losing that 100 million battleship just doesn't feel so bad. #2, you'll be able to participate in high level stuff (fleet combat) with all the hardcore PvPers and possibly even have a better setup because you're not too afraid of losing money. And #3, you're mixing up your gameplay. A little carebear, a little PvP. A little empire, a little 0.0. In my view, that's the way to play this game. I still HATE losing ships, but that's because I hate giving someone the satisfaction of killing me. Having to plop down 60 mil to re-buy an insured Raven + T2 fittings....eh. That's a day or two of work. I don't think the PvP'ers in my corp really understand how much money I make by being careful.

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