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Drazin DawnTreader The Elear	Posted - 2007.07.18 02:57:00 - [91] Just curious about something I noticed in this topic. Why is everyone comparing rockets to standard missiles? There are "Assault Launchers" which use the same light missile as standard launchers. To me, that is a more likely comparison. Assault Launcher = 53pg / 39cpu / 9.6s RoF Standard Launcher = 9pg / 28 cpu / 12s RoF I'm going out on a limb here, but I am guessing none of you run an Assault Missile Kestral setup. With that line of reasoning, it would mean that Cruisers aren't supposed to be able to use Heavy Assault Launchers. Assault launchers are designed to be used by Cruisers. Having said that, Battlecruisers -should- be able to use Heavy Assault missiles. Agree? Someone feel like running the numbers on a Caracel AM setup?
Shevar Minmatar Equilibria	Posted - 2007.07.18 03:08:00 - [92] Originally by: Incantare I know he's gunnery specced but his missile skills could not have been worse than mine at the time. I'll send you the mail next time I log into eve. What does one kill mean though? I'm sure there are killmails around of caracals killing some mentally challenged person in a Dominix. What I find interesting about most zomg buff caldari PvP missle boat discussion is that there is a certain lack of caldari pilots requesting their ships (raven/drake most notably) to be brought back in line with most other races (minmatar/amarr mainly) in terms of PvE viability. Something which you obviously yearn for considering you want to be equal in every way. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 03:15:00 - [93] Originally by: Shevar Originally by: Incantare I know he's gunnery specced but his missile skills could not have been worse than mine at the time. I'll send you the mail next time I log into eve. What does one kill mean though? I'm sure there are killmails around of caracals killing some mentally challenged person in a Dominix. What I find interesting about most zomg buff caldari PvP missle boat discussion is that there is a certain lack of caldari pilots requesting their ships (raven/drake most notably) to be brought back in line with most other races (minmatar/amarr mainly) in terms of PvE viability. Something which you obviously yearn for considering you want to be equal in every way. Hmm... nothing, except that he's in my corp and I've known him for years. And I'd love to see a killmail of someone in a caracal solo'ing a (not afk) Domi. Fraps too or I'll call proof or stfu. Furthermore, you must be blind, because in every Caldari whine thread there's some jerk that posts "dude, give the rats 100% resist to missiles I don't give a crap, just gimme some PVP back". Now, as for why I'M going for a Caldari missile boat boost: They suck. It's no fun to pick on the defenseless. =) Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
me bored	Posted - 2007.07.18 03:20:00 - [94] Why are you so obsessed with mwds? I suspect that it's your lack of competence and inability to fit a ship properly that's the problem not hams. Originally by: Incantare HAM Drake Case in point.
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 03:28:00 - [95] Quote: Speaking of HAM Caracals Liang I fought K.D. in one some months ago before his name change. I was in a Kestrel with a corpmate in a Rifter. Guess who died. Wow I really don't remeber this incident. And i'm suprised anyone recognizes me from name change! Now if I could just find the punk that petitioned my old name........... Quote: I know he's gunnery specced but his missile skills could not have been worse than mine at the time. I'll send you the mail next time I log into eve. I must post too much cause people strangers know where i'm speeced! Quote: ud have to be a HUGE noob to be able to die to a rifter in a ship thats been known for its awesome anti-frig capabilities for years Yeah I probably was a huge noob at the time. Also my missle skills suck so a rifter could speed tank me pretty easily. At any rate, could you send me the kill mail, I really can't remeber this happening.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.07.18 04:37:00 - [96] Originally by: KD.Fluffy Yeah I probably was a huge noob at the time. Also my missle skills suck so a rifter could speed tank me pretty easily. At any rate, could you send me the kill mail, I really can't remeber this happening. Forgot to upgrade your clone? ^^
LMAAAOOOO	Posted - 2007.07.18 06:13:00 - [97] Originally by: LeMoose caldari ships dont need fixing atm and if they did ccp has much more important problems than them atm; desynch, amarr, lag etc stop wasting bandwith. Gank Myrm - 950 dps Gank ham Drake - 550 dps or so However if you do decide to Ewar fit, the Myrm can't do it as good, but I wonder how much dps a HAM Drake does with no dmg mods.. _______________________________________________ Originally by: murder one lmaaaoooo has made it into my sig.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:33:00 - [98] Originally by: KD.Fluffy Quote: Speaking of HAM Caracals Liang I fought K.D. in one some months ago before his name change. I was in a Kestrel with a corpmate in a Rifter. Guess who died. Wow I really don't remeber this incident. And i'm suprised anyone recognizes me from name change! Now if I could just find the punk that petitioned my old name........... Same picture, plus you had a name that was hard to forget. Quote: Quote: I know he's gunnery specced but his missile skills could not have been worse than mine at the time. I'll send you the mail next time I log into eve. I must post too much cause people strangers know where i'm speeced! Pretty much . It's because you always post in the same threads that I do, see all the threads on Caldari BCs and Caldari in general. I still think the Ferox sucks, by the way. Quote: At any rate, could you send me the kill mail, I really can't remeber this happening. Sure, it was in Lonetrek and you were mining when my corpmate flipped your can.
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:39:00 - [99] Originally by: doctorstupid2 As morally opposed as I am to all things caldari, I agree. The powergrid requirements seem skewed, in laser, projectiles and hybrids, the high damage, short range weapons use considerably less power and cpu than the long range weapons. Why that is not the case for HAM's I cannot fathom a guess. Exactly. I find it very strange that the HAMs (unlike rocket/standard missiles, all sorts of long range vs short range guns, etc) have the shorter-range version consuming more powergrid then heavy missiles. Making them take 90 PG would go a long way to improving the ability to fit the damn things. Plus, I really don't understand why HAMs are not affected by guided missile precision.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:56:00 - [100] It's the case with Siege as well, but since a Raven will usually have on or several PDS anyway it's a non issue. Plus fitting 40 million PG rig on a BS to fill the remaining utility highs with heavy nos is more realistic than fitting that same rig on a 35 mil battlecruiser just to get a decent fit.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 11:04:00 - [101] Originally by: me bored Why are you so obsessed with mwds? I suspect that it's your lack of competence and inability to fit a ship properly that's the problem not hams. Originally by: Incantare HAM Drake Case in point. Ever looked at HAM range? Or the speed of a Drake on AB? Think. Post. And why are you still in this thread? You lost this one long ago. Originally by: Hugh Ruka Learn 2 think before you post crap ... Originally by: Captain Crimson me bored is an egomaniacal troll with a hangover. May his pod be killed multiple times out of shame! Originally by: Milton Keynes Originally by: me bored ...stupid ass trolling comments and numbers rigged to support a biased point of view....
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.07.18 11:15:00 - [102] HAM caracals aren't for new people.. with some good skills they kind of compete well... though they don't WTFPWN but my last attempt at a T1-fitted HAM Caracal managed to get a T1-fitted Thorax into 60% structure (he had damage control and I didn't). And my Ham skills were only lv4 at the time with plenty room to improve the fitting as well. Btw - we were both experienced pilots having fun in cheap T1 fitted ships, so it wasn't a noob. - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 11:28:00 - [103] Edited by: Incantare on 18/07/2007 11:29:33 If they did compete well you would be seeing more of them. Also if HAMs are fine, why do they sell for a small fraction of heavy missile launchers? I sincerely doubt that PvE is the whole reason. As for your fight against a Thorax, did your fit skim on the MWD knowing your opponent would close into HAM range anyway? Because that's not realistic for general PvP. Did you have a scram and a web? Because outside of an agreed 1v1 you wouldn't kill a decent Thorax pilot without.
captain kikaz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.18 11:30:00 - [104] Reading this lot i must be the only dedicated caldari missile pilot who loves hams. As far as i'm concerned I have no problems fitting any of my ships with hams none of my set ups suffer and i'm not forced to use any fitting mods to get it all on. you can try and hit me with as much maths as you like, it means nothing until your in space and shooting at something i've lost count of the amount of ships that have turned tail and run like scared children from my cerberus spitting out hams at them every 3 seconds taking chunks out of there "better class" ships. hams are fine they need no alteration at all i have used them since the day they were released and shall continue to do so for the forseeable future. regards kikaz pro heavy assault missle pilot
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 11:32:00 - [105] The Cerb fits HAM fine, it's been said, multiple times.
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:31:00 - [106] Quote: Yeah I probably was a huge noob at the time. Also my missle skills suck so a rifter could speed tank me pretty easily. At any rate, could you send me the kill mail, I really can't remeber this happening wow I was mining in a caracal?... lols! what the hell was I doing! hehe, musta been huge noob
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:53:00 - [107] Originally by: Incantare The Cerb fits HAM fine, it's been said, multiple times. I dunno, I think HAMs could use a damage boost per missile ... though more accurately, the Caldari missile bonus should be missile velocity or ROF (instead of Kinetic missile damage). Oh, and Caldari missile boats need better fittings. But if the Cerb fits them fine (and it does), then leave it alone. The Drake + Caracal, however, need a bit more PG to fulfill their "designed" roles. Caracal role: missile spammer. It can't fit HAMs and still be a ship worthwhile. Even "gank fit", it is far and away outclassed by other ships in its class. It gets no drone bay, and can be ganked even after (magically?) neutralizing the opponents main weapon system. Drake role: Tank + gang mods (it doesn't quite have enough PG to do this role.. other BC's do it much better due to the insane PG requirements of gang mods. Gang mod = 1 Neutron blaster. Gang mod = 2 HM launchers). Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:54:00 - [108] Originally by: KD.Fluffy Quote: Yeah I probably was a huge noob at the time. Also my missle skills suck so a rifter could speed tank me pretty easily. At any rate, could you send me the kill mail, I really can't remeber this happening wow I was mining in a caracal?... lols! what the hell was I doing! hehe, musta been huge noob Actually, I think I remember this one. I still want the killmail. ^_^ BTW Fluffy, the Muninn pilot says you're still a noob. ;-) Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 17:02:00 - [109] I'm fairly sure I sent it to you this morning, I'll send it again. When I say the Cerb fits hams fine I mean just that, it has enough grid to use them effectively, the double range bonus making them better. I won't touch the damage discussion because being able to properly fit HAMs would be a nice start, but generates so much resistance. I can already see the comments "lol missiles hit every time and can choose damage type they don't need more damage".
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 17:10:00 - [110] Originally by: Incantare I'm fairly sure I sent it to you this morning, I'll send it again. When I say the Cerb fits hams fine I mean just that, it has enough grid to use them effectively, the double range bonus making them better. I won't touch the damage discussion because being able to properly fit HAMs would be a nice start, but generates so much resistance. I can already see the comments "lol missiles hit every time and can choose damage type they don't need more damage". I thought I already debunked the choosing damage type for missiles in PVP? Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 17:14:00 - [111] All of Eve-o hasn't read your post, and most that do aren't going to change their mind even when presented with facts. Maybe I'm just cynical but that's usually how it goes whenever a buff Caldari thread shows up.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 17:52:00 - [112] The "missiles always hit" thing is a myth as well. Missile damage is subject to the target's sig and speed, just like guns.
Spaced Skunk D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.18 20:51:00 - [113] Edited by: Spaced Skunk on 18/07/2007 20:51:36 I think the main problem with the Heavy Assault Missiles is the great difference between the range of heavy missiles with only 25% damage increase. Its not worth the extra grid on the HAMs because they are infact worse than the heavy missile launchers. The drake is utterly useless with them, it cant fit them and fit an okay tank with MWD which is needed. I was thinking of the javelin heavy assaults, they seem pretty good, then I realised that I might as well be using Heavy Missiles at that point. I've found them useful only on one ship so far.....Hurricane. I think that they need, definatly, powergrid and CPU fitting of LESS than heavy missile launchers, so like the rocket VS standard missile launcher difference. Make them useful.
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.07.19 02:29:00 - [114] Originally by: me bored It's the same with torps and every higher tier weapon with every turret. Suck it up and use a fitting mod. That's because torps are the odd man out in missiles. Torps are slow, rockets/hams aren't. Torps have larger explosion rad, rockets/hams don't (hell rockets are SMALLER AND BETTER DPS). Torps are much better. Drop their flight time so their range caps at about 35km without bonuses, and then they will deserve a grid reduction also.
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.07.19 02:32:00 - [115] Originally by: me bored Originally by: Incantare You're missing the point entirely. High tier weapons should use more grid end of story. Fit an rcu and stop crying. They aren't a higher tier weapon. Missile launchers do not get 'tiers'. You have 75, 125 and 150mm Railguns for long range frigs, and ion/electron/neutron blasters for short range You only have Standard missile launchers for long range, and rocket launchers for short range. There are no missile launcher teirs, stop talking about tiers. This goes for the other people I see gripe about crap that doesn't exist.
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.07.19 02:41:00 - [116] Originally by: KD.Fluffy Great post liang, nice to see an actual numerical comparison instead of a bunch of bs posted by random people. Keep up the good work. Except the caracal he posted is impossible to fit.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.19 02:55:00 - [117] Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis Originally by: KD.Fluffy Great post liang, nice to see an actual numerical comparison instead of a bunch of bs posted by random people. Keep up the good work. Except the caracal he posted is impossible to fit. Originally by: "setup in question" HAM-Gank Caracal: 5x HAM II (Terror Assault) 10mn AB II, Fleeting Web/Scram Med Shield Booster II, Small Cap Booster (200's) 2x BCU II Not only does it fit, it fits with room left over with AWU4 + Shield Up 5. CPU used = 423.5 of 437.5 PG used = 656.6 of 662.5 Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.07.19 03:12:00 - [118] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Incantare You win LeMoose. I bow down to your well thought out, constructive arguments such as "stop complaining", "stop wasting bandwith" and "I don't fly Caracals". Post may contain sarcasm. I'm done arguing with you, it's pointless, like talking to a wall. Speaking of HAM Caracals Liang I fought K.D. in one some months ago before his name change. I was in a Kestrel with a corpmate in a Rifter. Guess who died. Kestrel + Rifter vs Caracal = dead Caracal. I've solod them in Rifters. Though, I assume you're talking about KD.Fluffy? Liang so a rifter can solo one of the most frig-pwning ships in the game? Just where are you finding your targets? A decent Caracal will send a pack of inties and AFs running away screaming.
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.07.19 03:20:00 - [119] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis Originally by: KD.Fluffy Great post liang, nice to see an actual numerical comparison instead of a bunch of bs posted by random people. Keep up the good work. Except the caracal he posted is impossible to fit. Originally by: "setup in question" HAM-Gank Caracal: 5x HAM II (Terror Assault) 10mn AB II, Fleeting Web/Scram Med Shield Booster II, Small Cap Booster (200's) 2x BCU II Not only does it fit, it fits with room left over with AWU4 + Shield Up 5. CPU used = 423.5 of 437.5 PG used = 656.6 of 662.5 Liang Thought the AB was a MWD at first. Not that you're ever outrunning anything with just an AB on a Caldair ship though.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.19 03:45:00 - [120] Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis Originally by: KD.Fluffy Great post liang, nice to see an actual numerical comparison instead of a bunch of bs posted by random people. Keep up the good work. Except the caracal he posted is impossible to fit. Originally by: "setup in question" HAM-Gank Caracal: 5x HAM II (Terror Assault) 10mn AB II, Fleeting Web/Scram Med Shield Booster II, Small Cap Booster (200's) 2x BCU II Not only does it fit, it fits with room left over with AWU4 + Shield Up 5. CPU used = 423.5 of 437.5 PG used = 656.6 of 662.5 Liang Thought the AB was a MWD at first. Not that you're ever outrunning anything with just an AB on a Caldair ship though. I did say it was a miracle and magic that he kited the Thorax right? Seriously, HAM Caracal = crap. Assault Missile Caracal = better, but it won't do anything to a Cruiser. Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"

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