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Darteis Elosia
PHOENIX 2ND C.A.G. DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2011.04.08 10:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Linkage This blew my mind a little, and not in a good way.
How will the US be able to repay their debt? What will happen if they don't?
This should be making more headlines to be honest. |
Xeldrak
Khanid Spirits Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 10:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
You will be bought by the European Union - better start training your british accents.... |
Darteis Elosia
PHOENIX 2ND C.A.G. DEM0N HUNTERS
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 10:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xeldrak wrote:You will be bought by the European Union - better start training your british accents....
Actually, i will be part owner of the US, since i'm Swedish. But there is no doubt that this will be affecting the enitre world by a great degree. And on a humorous note: Europe buys back faulty invention. |
Gammagandalf
Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 10:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
The biggest problem in the US isn't debt but rabid christian-conservative corporate puppets. |
Xeldrak
Khanid Spirits Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 10:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well, seriously:
24.5 Trillion? Thats: $ 24.500.000.000.000 or 2.45x10^13
I don't see any way such an amount of money could be payed back. So it will probably simply be "forgotten" - i.e. every President will probably delay this Problem to his successor. |
Louis deGuerre
Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
6
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Posted - 2011.04.08 11:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
We'll pretend you paid your debt and you switch to the metric system, how about it ? |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 11:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
China owns US |
Cpt Placeholder
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
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Posted - 2011.04.08 11:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
https://secure.wikimedia...untries_by_external_debt
Rank 11 is pretty absurd. Everybody is a millionaire there, in a certain sense. |
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 11:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
The question is, who is the debat to?
Also, in a fractual reserve banking system, debt is the only end product, since debt is money. The more loans you take, the more moeny is generated, and the lower the value of the currency goes. Then you need to take up more loans to cover the interest, and the process repeats. Perpetual debt., but it is not a sustinable system, and it is finally starting to crumble. Only idiots would adopt this system if they really knew what it did (most don't). Excepet the banks of course, they get to reap the benefits.
As such what is happening is not a supprise at all.
And all this bullshit about "china owns US" is just that, bullshit. Ask yourself who is responsible for the dollar, and who makes it, and lets the US use it. How do the US get ot use it? |
Deviana Sevidon
Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 11:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xeldrak wrote:You will be bought by the Chinese - better start training your Mandarin....
Fixed for you |
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Bek Thyron
18
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Posted - 2011.04.08 11:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
http://www.washingtonpos....html?wprss=rss_homepage
Read it. Now. And then, call your local representative. |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
4
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Posted - 2011.04.08 12:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
I would like to know specifically who all the countries in the world are in debt to, as it seems everyone is in debt.
Everyone can't just owe China can they? |
Louis deGuerre
Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
6
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Posted - 2011.04.08 13:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Danton Marcellus wrote:I would like to know specifically who all the countries in the world are in debt to, as it seems everyone is in debt.
Everyone can't just owe China can they?
As of January 2011, foreigners owned $4.45 trillion of U.S. debt, or approximately 47% of the debt held by the public of $9.49 trillion and 32% of the total debt of $14.1 trillion. The largest holders were the central banks of China ($1.1 trillion) and Japan ($885 billion). The share held by foreign governments has grown over time, rising from 25% of the public debt in 2007 and 13% in 1988.
US debt holders are a bit stumped what to do with all these dollars...if they try to dump them or exchange them the dollar might crash...there's not a lot the US has that they want to buy...so they just keep on piling up with everyone buying 'made in X' products. Meanwhile, everyone sneakily tries to get as much Euros etc as they can.
Too big to fail ? Perhaps, perhaps not.
EDIT : The complete list for the US. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.04.08 13:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
The important measure is Debt/GDP.
Yes, the USA is in trouble with it's debt and more specifically, it's deficits.
The USA doesn't need to pay off all of it's debt, it needs to get it's deficits under control, continue to grow the economy so the debt/GDP ratio improves.
Under this measure, more European countries are in much worse shape. If you add a greying demographic in, the European countries are in worse shape again since the USA is pretty much the only western democracy that is having enough babies to replace it's population.
So while it is accurate to say that the USA has debt and deficit problems they are not as severe as they are relative to a lot of countries in the EU.
TL:DR - the EU will never be "buying" the USA. :)
Canada, incidentally, has the best Debt/GDP ratio. Invest in Canadian companies people. We will be leading the OECD in growth for the next 20 years. |
ChromeStriker
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 13:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
The same way huge debt is always payed off by a country.... War! America will suddenly find a reason to dislike a country witch ether owes or is asking for money and make a profit from it.
war ? ? Profit
edit: or refuse to pay and say n||n you! what you going to do about it. |
Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
7
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Posted - 2011.04.08 15:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cpt Placeholder wrote:https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
Rank 11 is pretty absurd. Everybody is a millionaire there, in a certain sense. That list really needs to be sorted by % of GDP to see what order you should be worried about
Whatever way i order it though, doesnt look good for the UK |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 15:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Cpt Placeholder wrote:https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
Rank 11 is pretty absurd. Everybody is a millionaire there, in a certain sense. That list really needs to be sorted by % of GDP to see what order you should be worried about Whatever way i order it though, doesnt look good for the UK
We have had worse |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
4
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Posted - 2011.04.08 15:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's difficult to think outside the box, but as has been said many times by people wiser than me, money is not real. It is an abstract concept, it's only value is whatever value persons in that system attribute to it. Thus the direct correlation to currency value, market strength and investor/consumer confidence.
This concept has been displayed very painfully in the realization that my nation no longer really produces anything. Both our blue and white collar jobs in large have been shipped overseas. Due to our living wages being so high compared to other nations in our globalized economy we essentially cannot compete on many fronts.
We have instead become experts at creating money out of thin air. Our economy continues to grow, but only in respects to the top 5%, no one at the bottom has seen what we could consider real economic growth in many many years (with the exception of some very specific industries. ie: natural gas drilling)
Couple this with very irresponsible market activities and the fact the big players in our economy are considered "too big to fail" (organization failure would result in a market reaction considered unacceptable by politicians) and you suddenly see that our economy is actually "propped up", many of the figures are so large they might as well be pretend and that the idea that we operate a "free market" at all is a joke.
The only free market capitalism that exists in the US is all lower end transactions (singe billions, millions and below). Anything involving the low to low-end upper class.
Anything above that, any time we are discussing a pretend game of faux-economics. Failures that should result in proper market reactions are instead covered up and the institutions that fail have their bunk, lost, investments compensated by the US people (bailed out).
Very literally, Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest. It's a power game, funneling the control of the economy into the hands of a few people (and has had an immediate effect on our government, as the powerful are so powerful it has crossed into subversion of our democracy). The very idea that a worker should have the same voice as a rich investor is now, by many, considered a communist/socialist/derpaderp concept.
No one wants to see a depression, but I think that is the only way we will ever repair our economy and clean it of some very entrenched corruption and ultimately self-serving irresponsible activities on the behalf of both the major market players, and those charged with it's oversight (Congress and the FED).
And there is no easy answer. If we want to participate in a global economy equally with other nations it's obvious something has to give. Either the values of currency (be it ours or others) or a direct attack on the extreme wealth disparity in our nation. Both will result in an economic transition that will be very long and harshly felt by the American people.
A big hurt is coming. We will stave it off as long as we can (whether that be for the best or not).
/rant off |
Boonaki
Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 15:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ya we're screwed. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 16:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
There's nothing wrong here that can't be sorted.
The real problem right now is that the two major political parties would much rather make the other side look bad than fix what's wrong.
Here - one of the problems has been referred to somewhere as The Tyranny of the Minority. Essentially that is the result of small but very dedicated groups of people who are insistent on having their will prevail - and who will first and foremost attack those of their own side who are not true believers. Because of the influence these small groups have within their own parties - they exercise an undue influence on the larger groups. The majorities don't really share the values of these groups but they feel compelled to at least pay lip service to them lest they find themselves subject to vicious, unrelenting attack.
Each of these groups has solutions - it's just that their solutions involve the other side making sacrifices while their side makes few if any.
One of the reasons that these small groups exercise such disproportionate power - is that they ALL vote. The majority of the voting age population in this country doesn't.
Partially this is because some of the voters have become so disgusted with both the major parties that they've been alienated and can't bring themselves to vote for either one.
Another part of that - is that a lot of people don't really see themselves as being helped or hurt by either party so they don't bother. Mostly that's a sign of how well things have actually been going. If things start going really badly - then that will change.
Lastly though there are much fewer people who believe in doing something because it is their civic duty. Accepting responsibility is something that the current generation (the baby boomers) has never cared for.
So ... things will be getting worse before they get better.
. |
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Edge Bricklin
Cowboys and Beach Bums
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 17:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Looking at that list, Luxembourg is in the worst shape on the planet.... over 4000% !!!
The media will play this as a doomsday prophecy... especially since they think the population is tired of the Japan disasters and bored of the Libyan civil war.
This just goes to show you that the USA is the perfect example of what happens when raw capitalism is allowed to run rampant without regulation and the population refuses to pay the actual value of the services their government provides. Perhaps the days of low taxes in the US are coming to an end. It will be political suicide for Obama but if he wants to get things under control, that's what will have to happen. Sad part of that is it wasn't his doing... we can thank ol' Dubya Bush for his cowboy policies and reckless spending, then handing the problem off to his successors.
The US should bring bad boy Billy Clinton back! He would be able to fix the situation and provide everyone with juicy entertainment while he does it.
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Deviana Sevidon
Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 17:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Edge Bricklin wrote: The US should bring bad boy Billy Clinton back! He would be able to fix the situation and provide everyone with juicy entertainment while he does it.
Monica L. has probably brought more peace into the world then the entire staff of U.S. diplomats. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Black Legion.
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 18:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Edge Bricklin wrote:Looking at that list, Luxembourg is in the worst shape on the planet.... over 4000% !!! The media will play this as a doomsday prophecy... especially since they think the population is tired of the Japan disasters and bored of the Libyan civil war. This just goes to show you that the USA is the perfect example of what happens when raw capitalism is allowed to run rampant without regulation and the population refuses to pay the actual value of the services their government provides. Perhaps the days of low taxes in the US are coming to an end. It will be political suicide for Obama but if he wants to get things under control, that's what will have to happen. Sad part of that is it wasn't his doing... we can thank ol' Dubya Bush for his cowboy policies and reckless spending, then handing the problem off to his successors. The US should bring bad boy Billy Clinton back! He would be able to fix the situation and provide everyone with juicy entertainment while he does it.
That is a ridiculous assertion to say the least. The issue is government spending, not revenue if you have studied what has gone on in the least. GWB spent a way too much but Obama is making him look like a cheap-skate.
Here is the chart on us government revenue
As you can see government revenue has been increasing and will continue to increase into the future without adjusting any tax rates.
The issue is, government spending has increased almost exponentionaly in comparison.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out the solution to this mess. However, so many different special interest groups are now addicted to government handouts that the political consequences of getting them off the government teet can be prohibitive.
The deficit and debt are now getting enough media attention that the politics are starting to come around where the political leaders are going to have the capital to deal with the problem.
Rand's Budget proposal would be a good starting place. |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
4
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Posted - 2011.04.08 18:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Slowly it dawns on Taiwan that it's a pawn, just sitting pretty till the US debt has gone too far and China makes one of their plays for the island. The US goes to a token war with China, conventional arms only and Taiwan is re-united with the mainland.
No peace accord is ever signed and the US tells China to go get stuffed over the repayment of debt. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
US will not go bankrupt simply because we have gold, oil, we sell lots of food stuffs. Basically, like Russia, we can simply sell raw materials. |
Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
3
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:
The real problem right now is that the two major political parties would much rather make the other side look bad than fix what's wrong.
Its the same in the UK and I am personally getting fed up of partisan politics, I am a life long Labour party and trade unionist supporter but the way parties would rather score points at each others expense instead of running the country is ridiculous and I think I will be voting yes to the electoral reform to see every single parliament ends up as a coalition from now on. |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
4
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Riedle wrote: That is a ridiculous assertion to say the least. The issue is government spending, not revenue if you have studied what has gone on in the least. GWB spent a way too much but Obama is making him look like a cheap-skate.
Most people that push that line fail to include the fact that until Obama took office both Iraq and Afghanistan wars were off the books. When Obama took office they started including them in on the budget.
But anyways, you were saying... and I do disagree. I believe both revenue and spending are both at fault here.
There is good reason Warren Buffet is quoted: "It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be." * CNN Interview, May 25 2005, in arguing the need to raise taxes on the rich. -wikiquote
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ivar R'dhak
3
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
As long as the dollar is the world reserve currency nothing will change. Your Fed(private bank posing as your state bank) just "prints" more money.
Once the London banksters deem it opportune for their plans, the dollar will be abolished as reserve currency. THEN you-Śre going to **** bricks. Hello barter economy. Remember that old TV series that made Jessica Alba famous? I think Cameron made it, Angel or something.
Will be interesting to watch if you guys will be able to buy enough fuel to ship all your servicemen around the world back to the "home-land". |
Gistatis Tribunus
The Unknown Bar and Pub
3
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
It's funny that just 15 years ago, we were in a surplus. In that small time frame our economy has been driven down farther than it has ever been. The partisan politics are dumb and are just causing bickerings between both parties. Following the trend of before, when Clinton held office it was a democratic president with a republican congress, although that trend in economic growth doesn't seem to be repeating. Working together would maybe help. |
ivar R'dhak
3
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
And voting NEITHER Republican NOR Democrat would help even more. |
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